2. tell them "we need to steal all these coins NOW".
3. get them to agree.
4. make sure you have 51% of all miners.
5. attack.
LOL. I _fully_ welcome half the hashpower to go try this. I'd love to have twice the mining income again. Here is a hint: This won't work. You cannot do this with "51%" of the mining hashpower, nor 90% or whatever. There is no amount of hashpower which is sufficient to accomplish the proposed steps. it won't work? darn... |
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I still want to hear the steps required to accomplish such a feat.
ok. since you need it spelled out in detail for you: 1. go around and talk to everybody. 2. tell them "we need to steal all these coins NOW". 3. get them to agree. 4. make sure you have 51% of all miners. 5. attack. 6. Mission Accomplished. |
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We think we've got a good method of clearing any temporary data from the cache on our printers, but I won't hesitate to say that the process can be improved and I welcome any input on how we could make it better.
don't forget to destroy the drum roller  |
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I'm not sure if this is possible but what I would like to see is some kind of kit. E.g. a coin where I can inject my own private key and seal it with a secure hologram. (Similar to a paper wallet kit). But I guess it wouldn't be a TitanBTC anymore at that point. It would be a coin wallet.
this is a great idea. if designed properly this could be a winner. |
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I still want to hear the steps required to accomplish such a feat.
Stop being so freakin logical. |
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Im sure a lot of members here took losses, but I really doubt anyone did something as bad as sell in to the bottom.
On the contrary. Did you see that enormous volume spike? |
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Oh, i get it now! The difficulty climbs until KNC gear is unprofitable to mine, and ... doesn't climb any more. Hashfast itself also stops filling orders & stops selling your "edge of efficiency" gear, deciding that they've made enough money. Miner's paradise -- difficulty freeze  Of course, the other ASIC makers can't find a cheaper energy rate than the one your consumer electric co surprise butsexes you with. Thanks for the milk Geographic location of the miners (regarding the electricity price) is not what was discussed. It may easily turn out to be third-world game, where electricity is dirt-cheap. Such are many "dirty" industries. HashFast may not "decide that they've made enough money", but nobody will buy miners from any company knowing machines would be unprofitable from day 1. Agian, not happening in a moment and on/off simplified like this, but some difficulty "extreme slowdown" (not freeze) is coming, when everything non-efficient is turned off. the only logical "turn-off sequence" would place HF at the end of the line. while Cointerra appears to have similar specs there still is no signs of a tapeout. |
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Still you never ending refrain has been if you don't profit in the first 60 days you never will. On inefficient hardware that might be true however if you are efficient (both in J/GH and $ per kWh) when the curve DOES bend due to economics it is possible to make a small profit every day for a very long time.
this is correct. and there is really no way to model when it will occur. as someone said above, the truth will play out somewhere in the middle of a never ending exponential ramp in hashrate and an outright crash from some negative event. the only way to play this and still have a chance to be in the game is to buy the most efficient, cost effective hardware you can with an MPP in place to hopefully provide a cushion. |
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Your calculation sounds great, until you question the x365 part. Do you really think in January that you'll have another 365 days of above electricity cost hashing left? Really? You admit this yourself. I'd give you a maximum of 2 months above a Jupiter before the difficulty forces you below break even, and that's generous.
What exactly would drive difficulty that high. People buying rigs that instantly result in a loss from day 0? Imagine difficulty is so high a Jupiter breaks even on electrical cost ($100 in electricity = $100 in BTC). Anything less efficient has been idled as who is going to pay $500 in electricity to get $100 in BTC. Total network hashrate would be close to 130 PH/s (difficulty 18 billion). Your predict is that in two months the network will double again such that a HF rig will be operating at break even electrical cost? Really? Other than blindly following a chart which shows an exponential growth forever have you thought about that. a) 130 PH/s needed to double in 60 days = 2.2 PH per day in hardware. Thats like 5,500 BabyJets or Jupiters shipping a day, every single day nonstop. b) who would be buying these. By your very scenario a Jupiter is no longer profitable to operate (even w/ free hardware) from day 1. Who would be buying these hundreds of PH/s of gear to operate at a loss? Even HF/Cointerra gear would be only marginally profitable. Even assumming no future difficulty growth and prices as low as $2 per GH it the time to break even would be on the order of TWO YEARS. So who is going to buy all this 130 PH/s of hardware. c) It would take a lot more than 1 or 2 miners bad at math. Even at $2/GH that is $2,000 per TH or $2M per PH. Another 130 PH would be $260 million in hardware sales. Hell pretend ASIC companies cut their prices to <$1 per GH you are still talking over $100M. So which scenario do you think is more likely. Difficulty continues to double forever OR at some point economics/cost starts to bend the cost curve. Will a HF miner turn a profit? I don't know and I am not trying to predict that. There are far two many variables in play. However it is painfully obvious for anyone who has done more "analysis" then clicking "calculate" on the genesis block that economic factors will eventually slow the curve. By your logic why didn't we see difficulty grow exponentially to 100 PH/s with GPUs? Maybe because while miners are bad at predicting the future they are pretty good at looking at the day 1 economics and that slows hardware deployment. i fully concur and on top of that the price is starting to follow the growth of the network hashing rate in case anyone hasn't been paying attention. there have only been only 4 days in BTC price history where the price has closed higher. try doing these doomsday scenarios at a price of $1000/BTC. |
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A conservative outlook:  A year and two months for every tenfold increase. $2000 by Feb. 2015, $20,000 by Spring 2016, trillion-dollar market cap a few months later. So like 3 years to mainstream adoption. I can dig it. I too love thinking logarithmically about this. By my analysis, we've plateaued a couple of times for long periods after a tenfold increase. The latest plateau appears to be over. As I'll never forget you saying a while back, "We've got to get going ". |
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I'm well aware of them. Their bodies are strewn all over my gold thread  |
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 Of course, with overexuberance we may spike into quadruple digits for a brief time. NOTE: At this exponential growth rate it takes a little less than a year to increase tenfold. That suggests ballpark figures of $5000 by early 2015 and $50,000 by about the end of 2015, with the market cap reaching $1 trillion around Spring 2016. That's trillion with a "T" - full mainstream adoption in 2.5 years. If this multi-year trend holds, we're the whole world's in for a wild ride. So in less than 10 year a bitcoin will be worth $1,500,000,000,000 and the entire blockchain $20,000,000,000,000,000,000 Thats 20 quintillion. Next. Puppet, ZB is simply applying the same exponential growth functions to the price that you keep insisting apply to the difficulty in the Hardware forum. |
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If the walls at $165 go down tonight there is not much stopping it going all the way to $200. This is fun to watch.  You could end up being the richest woman chick in the world.  That's a scary thought |
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What we're witnessing here with Bitcoin is truly an amazing phenomenon which the vast majority miss or refuse to believe.
A deep understanding of what money is has always been the most essential thing. Thank you Austrians.
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seems the Chinese are the ones buying (and maybe the only ones left holding?) Ha, better than holding government bonds. you got that right. remember the 3 mo T Bill chart i showed you the other day that showed the rate increase off the bottom to be 2000%. here's today's version:  |
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anachronistic
that's too big an English word for a Chinese to say. just stick to "buy". |
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Remember what happened when proudhon turned bull? Now ElectricMucus thinks "the bubble" will be "reinflated"...
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SELL! SELL! SELL!
Hold on... he may not be the LAST bear. Has the ir-rationalSpeculator bought back yet??? Don't forget about our friendly bearish moderator Blitz. careful. you might be deleted. |
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Remember what happened when proudhon turned bull? Now ElectricMucus thinks "the bubble" will be "reinflated"...
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SELL! SELL! SELL!
Hold on... he may not be the LAST bear. Has the ir-rationalSpeculator bought back yet??? lol, the day trading speculator! the silence is deafening. |
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