Please bear with me [2] when reading this as I might repeat things others have said, but I binge reply to 6 pages here.
I was thinking about replacing DefaultTrust in the following way:
When users first try to view a topic in a Trust-enabled section, they will instead see
this page and be forced to select some users to trust before being allowed to continue to the topic. In addition to the empty text box currently on the Trust settings page, up to 30 users will be suggested.
While I like the basic idea of people creating their own list, I find this:
If you don't know any of the users listed, you should pick 10-20 users at random...
very troubling. A new user would have no idea who to trust so why make them select 10-20 users at random?
IMHO its perfectly fine to trust no one in the beginning and start creating your trust list over time. I visit the board almost daily for over a year now and I couldnt pick 10 trustworthy people out of the list, hence my short list I trust. This might be because I am not as active in the marketplace section as others, but consider how this is for someone completetly new, knowing no one.
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Each person gets N points whenever they are trusted by someone, and loses N points whenever they are distrusted by someone, where N = 0 if the rater is less than a full member and N = [rater's activity]/120 if the rater is at least a full member.
This greatly favours account farmers. While this would be a great idea if we somehow could ensure one account per physical entitiy (human, feline overlord, dog, etc.) anyone can create new accounts, farm the accounts for 120 days and use them to boost trust of a single account. This could even be sold as a service to others in need of a little trustboost. There are probably people farming accounts for sales allready.
I agree with Vod, newbies will probably forget about it when it's set. Perhaps writing up a thread about the trust system and forcing newbies to read it? The text on the current suggest page looks good, but it's important and should be made looking more important.
Maybe a sticky in trust-enabled sections too?
As we allready see people do not read stickies and you cant actually force someone to read something. You can force them to load the page and wait a certain amount of time before clicking something, but they might as well bounce a ball[1] while they have to wait.
-snip-
That's maybe why it isn't good for newbies to choose this. You can and should add people you trust to your trust list.
That requires thinking, something a lot of people find so hard that they won't do it.
Which is fine for them, isnt it? I dont think this board should try (and fail) to force people into anything. People invest in HYIP and Ponzies all the time.
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If someone only ever uses the checkboxes to edit their trust list, then I will make it so that this doesn't increase the "suggestion points" of the people they select. (This isn't implemented yet.)
I like this, but someone gameing the system would obviously work around this and edit the list by hand.
My major concern is that there are very few people who give negative trust to scammers and potential scammers.
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IMHO this can be prevented by a good amount (~50 should do currently) of old timers adding those in question (e.g. Vod) to their trust list. Thus the "scam busters" stay on top of the new points system. At least until the shill armada arrives.
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With the proposed system, each user would need to manually remove TF (in this example) from their trust network which will probably not be updated very often. Users may or may not set a trust network and "forget it" but I don't think they will, as a general rule check places like scam accusations on a regular basis to make sure a new scammer who was previously trusted is removed from their network.
While this is true it also decentralizes trust.
I would say that the people who are trusted by default trust should have a somewhat large trust network and be active in adding (and removing as necessary) users to their trust network.
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I also think we shouldn't have people like CanaryInTheMine who add everyone and their brother they have ever done business with as this will result in people in default trust network that should realistically not be there.
While I understand your point I see no way to moderate this. You cant encurage people to be active (which can be gamed as well btw) and at the same time punish them if they are over a certain, arbitrary point.
A last concern is one that was touched on before, but not heavily discussed. This system would not be difficult to manipulate, but it would be much more difficult to detect manipulation. One could quietly buy up a lot of accounts then buy a 2nd set of accounts they want to be trusted. The first set of accounts could all have the 2nd set of accounts added to their trust list which would result in them being often suggested for newer users to add to their trust list. More experienced users may not even notice when this is happening because they are not being asked to add new users to their trust list.
Thanks for bringing this up again. As I wrote above you dont even have to buy accounts, but could farm them yourself. 120 days might be worth spending on 50+ accounts for a long con or as a service.
If I may ask: how many accounts do you currently control that could influence this? Just to get an impression how much "power" youd have under the new system. A sum of all activity points >120 would be nice to compare it easily.
-snip-
I think that in this case it actually matters who voted for what.
One could easily manipulate the poll with many accounts; is that right?
They could and I'm sure theymos will take that into consideration and/or look out for abuse.
Theymos stated that only certain votes will count. E.g. no fresh/youngs accounts etc.
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You cannot automate this. Nobody can, although many have tried. Stop wasting (y)our time and pissing people off with these vain high-maintenance attempts.
IMHO this is a valid point. Id still set the default trust list "for the children" and suggest they create their own list as initiation ritual (e.g. after reaching member rank or maybe sr. member rank) which does not suggest any user. Allow any informed Newbie to do set up a list earlier and let those undecided get accustomed with the board first.
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