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821  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Can gambling be profitable in long term ? on: September 23, 2015, 04:46:26 AM
Unless the game you're playing involves elements of strategy, winning in the long term isn't something viable. I know people that call themselves 'professional' poker players but poker is not your casual gambling game, and even those people have other sources of income other than the rewards of the poker tables they participate. 

Casino's edge is their safeguard, either against a lucky streak or blatant cheating. When a player wins, is someone taking as profit the losing of many other players. So in the long run you can't think on gambling as a regular income.

True that. gambling is profitable in the long term only for casinos.
822  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Is there an index of all the cryptocurrencies out there? on: September 23, 2015, 02:45:44 AM
Yes, map of coins is a great website with a nice visualization. I've been trying to remember what this website was called actually.

But I doubt there's a single resource including all cryptocurrencies. You could try and browse the announcement board if you want more. Most cryptocoins that were launched to the public had an announcement or at least a mention here.
823  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Solution To Bitcoin's Governance Problem on: September 23, 2015, 02:41:27 AM
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/21967/notable-bitcoin-core-contributors-now-open-increasing-block-size-limit-2-4mb/

clearly the devs are starting to reach an agreement, now i wonder if they will allow poeple to vote on whatever they decide...

Several people have been saying that a small increase on the block size limit is the least radical solution, that would potentially give the community a lot more time to develop new solutions and form consensus around in case a hard fork would be required. Pieter Wuille's BIP addressed some of those points.
824  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Is the "First Bitcoin Computer" a 'data miner'? on: September 23, 2015, 02:19:16 AM
Needless to say that I'm not impressed by 21 Inc's machine. I don't know if there will be more after that but this machine is utterly unimpressive, and it hasn't even launched yet. Now, I know that reddit is so easily manipulated, so I wanted to come here and leave my two cents.

Note that everything posted below is leaving aside the fact that this machine is using open source technologies and costs 400$ (that you won't be able to buy with bitcoin). 

First of all, a quick look at the FAQ indicates that the machine is not meant to provide profit through mining despite the fact that there's a very efficient chip in there. To be specific:

Quote
0.16 Joules per Gigahash and can calculate 50-125 Gigahashes per second
https://www.21.co/faq/#technical-specifications

The price however is 400$ dollars so no hope of ROI just from mining. As of the mining itself, they haven't clarified how it'll happen. Here's what we know about mining so far:
Quote
[21 Inc] are not taking a portion of your mined bitcoin. [...]

Little earlier however:

Quote
What are the payout frequencies and payout thresholds for the 21 Bitcoin Chip?

The network of 21 Bitcoin Computers does not work like a typical mining pool, so these concepts do not apply. It is set up to give you a close-to-continuous stream of a small amount of bitcoin

So it's not clarified if spending electricity to mine with the machine will pay under a PPS or PPLNS model. It's only specified that they'll be sending users a continuous stream of small amounts of bitcoin. Sounds like they purposefully give out very little information.

So now that we've cleared out why this machine was a total disappointment to those hoping 21 would help the mining scene innovate (instead of using venture capitalist funds to build their own farm) let's see what this machine is supposed to exceed at.

In the FAQ, answering if the machine can make profit:

Quote
you would do so not by directly selling bitcoin, but by selling digital goods for bitcoin.

Later on, providing examples about what can be bought and sold:

Quote
you can sell paid APIs like machine translation, rent out a 3D printer, or take BTC in exchange for microtasks like tweeting.
[...]
Quote
by doing things like running full nodes

It seems like even they don't have a clear view about what digital goods stands for. Renting a 3D printer is a perfectly physical service. Note how they also mention running a full node as a revenue generating activity. Did they forget how easily nodes are spoofed?

But most importantly, to do all this you'd have connect to their micropayments server. Which from what we know until now seem to be centralized.

Quote
The 21 Micropayments Server is a modified web server that allows you to make any internet accessible resource payable in bitcoin.

Long story short, after a pragmatic look at the First Bitcoin Computer it's apparent that it has no clear reason to exist. It consists of a mining ASIC on top of open source technologies, all for 400$. The creators have clearly indicated that profiting solely from mining is impossible, but mentioned that there is potential for profit through the buying and selling of digital goods. But for users to even participate in such activities, they'd have to create an account (will go into detail about that when going through the ToS and privacy) with their real info and participate in a centralized server for payments. 21 also completely fails to mention viable activities that would result into profit and resorts to mentioning begin paid to tweet and running a node for profit (wtf?).



Now for a look at the more detailed ToS and privacy agreement. To be clear, I think that it's a pretty standard set of terms of service, but the privacy agreement is a completely over the top. Maybe try to skim through it and you'll realize that using such a machine completely defies the most basic freedoms bitcoin provides such as decentralization, ability to remain anonymous, being able to use the currency for any kind of transaction without question etc.

Here are few of the gems in the ToS (quotes are word for word):

They don't warrant that their service will be virus free:
Quote
21 DOES NOT WARRANT THAT: (1) THE OPERATION OF THE SERVICES WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED, ERROR-FREE, OR VIRUS-FREE

Only uses legal under US. law are allowed, this would include playing in unregistered gambling websites, buying kinder eggs etc.
Quote
You may only use our Services as permitted by law, including all applicable export and re-export control laws and regulations, including, without limitation, the U.S. Export Administration Regulations.

Users are agreeing to provide their real information when registering an account:
Quote
By creating an account, you agree to: (1) provide accurate, complete, and current information;

Have the right to close accounts and prevent access to their services whenever they feel like it, almost sounds like they have total control over what each machine does and doesn't
By creating an account, you agree to: (1) provide accurate, complete, and current information;

Now for the privacy, They collect information in the ways mentioned:



 
Quote
1.Information you give us. We may collect personal information that you provide us through a web form or when you otherwise correspond with us regarding our Services, such as when you contact our customer support team.

2.Device information. We may collect information about devices you use to access the Services and how you use the Services, such as your IP address and which websites you visited before accessing our Services.

3.Logs. Our servers automatically record information created by your use of our Services. Logs may include information such as your IP address, browser type, operating system, the referring web page, pages visited, location, your mobile carrier, device and application IDs, search terms, and cookie information.

4.Cookies. We use technologies like cookies and pixel tags to to gather statistical information about how you are interacting with your Services, which may include identifying your IP address, browser type, and referring page.

This would include almost all online activity. And what happens to this data?

Quote
1.We will share personal information with companies or individuals when we have your consent to do so;

2.We may provide personal information to our trusted services providers to process it for us to assist us in providing Services to you, and only based on our instructions and in adherence with this Privacy Policy and applicable confidentiality and security measures;

3.We will share personal information with law enforcement or other third parties if we: (1) are compelled to do so to comply with any applicable law or legal process; or (2) believe in good faith that disclosure is necessary to prevent physical harm, illegal activity, or harm to the rights, property, or safety of 21 or our users.

And on top of that user information might be used to solve disputes:

Quote
Note that we may retain your personal information as necessary in order to comply with our legal obligations, resolve disputes, or enforce our agreements to the extent permitted by law.

Or even sold as is in the event of an acquisition:

Quote
If we are involved in a merger or acquisition, your information may be transferred as part of that transaction.


I know some of you might say that this looks like a standard ToS and Privacy agreement, but keep in mind that we're talking for what's called a Bitcoin Computer. For a product focused on bitcoin, it's a shame it takes away even the most basic freedoms bitcoin has to offer. Users need to create accounts to access the services, are forced to join a centralised server and only allowed to complete transactions considered legal under US law. Users agree to provide their real info when registering and later this info might be sold for targeted advertising or given to the authorities after any suspicion. 21 even retains the right to deny access to their centralized services without any given reason.

For something that was praised so much, it's sad to say that it almost looks like a data mining botnet with a 400$ to participate in.


825  Local / Other languages/locations / Re: Українська (Ukrainian) on: September 23, 2015, 01:33:27 AM
I recently heard that there are over 10k bitcoin terminals all over Ukraine. To what extent is that true? Do Ukrainians use them? Is it easy to get bitcoin there?

https://btcu.biz/map
826  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do Atheists hate Religion ? on: September 22, 2015, 04:29:11 PM
How can one not been given a choice to believe in something? How can one be forced into believing something if he doesn't want to? I don't quite get this, even if it's not about religion 100% I don't really comprehend the reasoning. 
827  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do Atheists hate Religion ? on: September 22, 2015, 04:08:57 PM
Everybody has a choice to believe in religion or not.

That's not true.

I never had a choice.


Thank You.
Thoughts are in your head though. Nobody can effectively force you to think that you're part of a religion beside a physical level. Being an atheist wouldn't require official recognition in a cathedral or being blessed by a priest of a church. If you live independently, you could one day decide that you've had enough and start thinking outside of the religious perspective you had no choice but enduring, and live life that way.
828  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Hitler's world may not be so far away on: September 22, 2015, 04:01:39 PM
The title of this article is one of the biggest exaggerations I've seen these days. Bigger than 21 in when they were talking about putting a bitcoin mining chip on every device and now being praised for releasing a machine based on open source technology.

You simply can't speak about anything related to the holocaust and compare it to modern day actions. The latest decades have been proven the most peaceful times, but killing en masse is about to be repeated because... climate change? Rrrright.
829  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: I speculate that 21 Inc. is insane with their preorder momputer for $400 on: September 22, 2015, 03:39:53 PM
21 used part of the investments to put into buying and using those very efficient ASICS. This machine is no innovation indeed and if you read through their ToS you'll notice that it takes away a lot of the freedom bitcoin offers. It's almost like they created this as a quick money grab. I'd stay away.

Look at their ToS and Privacy terms and you'll know what I'm talking about. They'll give your information to authorities per request. Shocked
830  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: BTC Robot Problems on: September 22, 2015, 03:36:07 PM
Why wouldn't you search about their service in bitcointalk and Reddit before investing with them? This service has been up for a long time, I wouldn't be surprised if they had halted operations but kept the website up. Their reputation wasn't the best anyway.
831  Economy / Economics / Re: What's the next big announcement you think might make BTC value rise ? on: September 22, 2015, 03:09:45 PM
We saw an ETF investing in bitcoin (through GBTC) lately but I think it'd be interesting to see how this and Gemini performs in a longer term. ARK investment's web x.0 has already been performing very well, if bitcoin proves to be a good part ETF seeing more adoption of BTC in this space could likely benefit BTC. While they didn't invest directly, awareness on high profile investors is always good. ARK even released a whitepaper and a series researching bitcoin so awareness among their investors must be very good.
832  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Satoshi Nakamoto PLEASE resolve this debate? 1MB blockstream vs 8MB Gavin Blocks on: September 22, 2015, 08:22:50 AM
Bitcoin is all about consensus and decentralization.

Why are you asking for Satoshi comes back and decide it like the ultimate instance of apelation?

Unfortunately it seems most people are biologically wired to obey orders from totalitarian leaders, thats why the fiat scam is such a success that keeps surviving a crisis after another, it's no secret why dollar is king no matter how much it hyperinflates.

But then again, if a person would present a solution good enough for consensus to be formed around it, it would no longer be about the messenger but the message. No matter how reputable the person behind a certain BIP about the blocksize, many people look beyond just that when it comes to how good his proposal is.

833  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Solution To Bitcoin's Governance Problem on: September 22, 2015, 08:18:37 AM
Bitcoin survived until today with changes happening under near global consensus. This means that every change happening till today had the benefit of everyone in mind and/or wasn't significant enough to affect non advanced users so they didn't participate in a debate against or for it. With the block size it's different and it's hard to reach global consensus as what would benefit some could put others in a disadvantageous position.


Also there are much more people involved in bitcoin and therefore invested in the outcome of the decision now during this fork than there was during any other fork that occurred in Bitcoins history. I think it is important to introduce another layer of the consensus process that involves the owners of bitcoin rather then just leaving it 100% up to the developers and the miners.

That is an interesting point. Giving everyone with invested interest n bitcoin a chance to have their voices heard sounds great, but to some extent was already possible. Like most open source projects managed through an open platform, anyohne could sign up to github or perhaps the mailing list. Unless their posting there was outright trolling valid comments are often properly addressed.
834  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Do you trust the miners? on: September 22, 2015, 05:07:18 AM
everybody who trust miners is rich,on past time, not nowdays..

There are several big BTC ventures that have no good reason to put their full trust on miners when it comes to the block size debate however.
835  Other / Meta / Re: [poll] Should doxing be banned? on: September 22, 2015, 04:01:20 AM
Thanks for mentioning your story devthedev.
836  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Solution To Bitcoin's Governance Problem on: September 22, 2015, 03:43:22 AM
Bitcoin survived until today with changes happening under near global consensus. This means that every change happening till today had the benefit of everyone in mind and/or wasn't significant enough to affect non advanced users so they didn't participate in a debate against or for it. With the block size it's different and it's hard to reach global consensus as what would benefit some could put others in a disadvantageous position.
837  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Do you trust the miners? on: September 22, 2015, 03:39:20 AM
I don't trust the miners to make decisions that benefit the whole comunity and not just themselves.

Please give examples of what decisions miners might make that would just benefit themselves but be detrimental to the rest of the community? Miners generally have a lot vested in hardware and Bitcoin in general and are keen to see Bitcoin succeed. I certainly trust miners more that a small-time Bitcoin gambler or sig-campaigner who has very little vested in Bitcoin.

Right now I think it's generally accepted that the power miners have isn't something to be taken away from them as bitcoin has been functioning under those rules for so long. But BIP100 would put the decision on the future of the block size entirely on miners.
838  Economy / Speculation / Re: What happened to all the old timers? on: September 21, 2015, 02:35:16 PM
Many of the early adopters eventually left the scene or stopped caring. Theymos has said that the administration of the forum was eventually passed to him for reasons like that. I don't find it surprising that over time some people lose interest over bitcoin. After all, bitcoin is a thing, an idea, a tool and neither of those don't remains interesting forever to everybody.
839  Other / Off-topic / Re: Are you a religious person or not? on: September 21, 2015, 02:29:54 PM
BiPolarBob, what is it that makes Mormonism meet the needs of anyone really.?
840  Other / Meta / Re: Should people who promote ponzis in their signature be given a negative trust? on: September 21, 2015, 02:27:15 PM
If you can actually prove that this is not a ponzi (or scheme of similar likelihood) then I'm sure shorena would remove the rating and you'd stop being looked down upon. Time alone won't help a lot though, there have been scams running for a very long time.
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