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8401  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bitcoin is being crushed by its own weight on: September 02, 2012, 06:12:19 PM
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That was part of the observation in my original post. Unfortunately, that it the same as saying that "cash" is ill-suited for the casual user. In order for a typical person to use bitcoin, it will have to be stored in an "account" on some server and not under the direct control of the person.

No the typical casual user will use a lite node.  Also I would point out that in e-wallets like blockchain.info your private keys ARE under your direct control.  Blockchain.info only handles the higher level processing (validating tx, calculating balances, submitting tx to the network, parsing blocks for incoming tx, etc).

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I noticed that downloading the last 10% of the block chain (the last 30 or so days) took about 75% of the time. Doesn't this indicate an exponential growth of the size of the block chain, or at least the amount of work needed to process it? And if it continues growing like this, won't the wallet eventually be unable to keep up? Please inform me.

If the human race keeps doubling every 15 years then in a thousand or so years every square inch of our planet will be covered with humans.  Assuming exponential growth will continue is flawed. 
8402  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bitcoin is being crushed by its own weight on: September 02, 2012, 05:14:52 PM
Developers have indicated there IS a plan.  
The combination of:
a) new DB structure
b) removing the double verification
d) pruned DB
d) better memory management
e) multi-threaded block verification

have the potential to improve throughput by a magnitude or more (i.e 10x faster blockchain verification).  It isn't going to happen overnight though.  There are no bitcoin offices in Santa Clara with 20,000 salaried bitcoin employees working 40 hours a week of improving the client.

Longer term even those improvements will be insufficient.  If Bitcoin becomes very large (which we all should hope it does) the demands on full nodes will increase exponentially.  This doesn't mean developers shouldn't work on solutions but those solutions likely will only keep pace with tx growth.  If a future client can process 100x as many tx per second but network volume is 200x higher then the node will be "slower".  The reality is full nodes are ill-suited for noob or casual users.  Period.  As time goes on that will become more and more obvious.

For those who spend nights awaking worrying about it how much time, resources, or even bitcoins have you donated to the development of better clients?
8403  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: Question about mining - on: September 02, 2012, 05:07:19 PM
the coinbase tx can contain arbitrary data.  It is referred to as the "extra nonce".  If you need a new header and no other data has changed you can simply change the arbitrary data in the coinbase field.  It is never used for anything by the bitcoin network.  It simply servers as a source of extra entropy (and is also used in merged mining - it is what links the bitcoin block to the alt-chain block).  One pools has even used the coinbase field to send short messages.

Also the time field doesn't have to be exact.  The network will accept blocks with timestamp within 3 hours of the network normal time.  So once can "cheat" and simply increment the timestamp field into the future.


Still in current pool setups (except p2pool) the pool server does all the block header computation (including ensuring each miner is working on unique data by setting the coinbase field).  When miners can perform 1000x as much work it is going to put 1000x as much load on the pool server.  Some clever use of n-time rolling will help but the load increase is going to be large.

One solution is to change how pools talk to miners.  Have the miner construct the blockheader locally.  The pool simply becomes a mechansim for sharing the reward (p2pool essentially does this now).  In hindsight Satoshi should have made the nonce field 64 bit and this would be a complete non-issue.  That is never going to change now so we work with what we got.
8404  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bitcoin is being crushed by its own weight on: September 02, 2012, 04:58:59 PM
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if the growth of the block chain continues like this, wallets will eventually be unable to keep up -- even in real-time.

Do you realize how stupid this sounds? 
8405  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: GPG4win, My Kleopatra is broken, I need to export my keys for a reinstall on: September 02, 2012, 02:42:16 PM
On Windows GPG puts public keys in this folder:
C:\Users\[Username]\AppData\Roaming\gnupg

The simplest option would be to launch GPA (also installed with GPG4Win package), highlight all the keys, and click export.

Alternatively you can use the command line program gpg2.exe (Kleo & GPA are simply GUI frontends which execute commands against gpg2.exe)
C:\Program Files (x86)\GNU\GnuPG\

Public keys can always be obtained from key servers but you should ALREADY have a backup of your private keys.  If the reason Kleo is failing is because your keys have become corrupt you will have no choice but to re-import them from key servers.   If your private key is corrupt well you have lost your OTC ratings if they used that key.
8406  Economy / Speculation / Re: if bitcoin only served the "underground" economy... on: September 02, 2012, 02:03:58 AM
I think there may be some confusion.

Velocity =/= moving money around.

Velocity = GDP/MoneySupply.  There has to be real production or the velocity is zero.

If the entire bitcoin network consisted of nodes randomly transfering BTC to each other than regardless of the transaction volume the production would be 0 and thus velocity would be zero.

If I withdraw $500 from my checking account and then deposit it back that is not economic production (GDP) and thus it doesn't contribute to velocity.
If I buy a new xbox360 for $500 then likely Microsoft will build a replacement and that transaction does add to economic production (GDP) and thus raises the velocity of the economy (increase to GDP over no change in money supply).

8407  Economy / Speculation / Re: if bitcoin only served the "underground" economy... on: September 01, 2012, 08:56:46 PM
Hmm, interesting. A question: when measuring "velocity of money", you'd count the money that changed hands in exchange for goods and services? I'm a bit unclear on this. Let's make an example. I buy raw materials from a miner for BTC 100, pay an employess BTC 50 to produce some good and sell it for BTC 200 to you. What would be the measurements for (Economic Production) and (Velocity of Money) in this example?

So in the example there is 350 BTC of economic activity.  The velocity would depend on how large the money supply was.  Lets assume the entire money supply is only 200 BTC.  The velocity would be 350 / 200 = 1.75.

More on velocity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money

Now estimating the velocity of the Bitcoin economy would be difficult.  In any economy velocity can only be estimated and usually entities like the Fed have extensive data provided to them by businesses, banks, govt agencies, etc.  With the psuedo-anonymity of Bitcoin and lack of central oversight the traditional method of computing these stats won't work.  I would imagine if Bitcoin became large enough eventually there will be value in researchers trying to pin down economic data like velocity.

In traditional fiat economies when functioning properly Velocity will tend to have a v=1 as a lower bound and v=3 as an upper bound (so GDP is 100% to 300% of the money supply).  Velocity of < 0 indicates that a substantial portion of the money in the economy is simply idle (it isn't used for new goods or services).  Velocity of 0 would indicate no economic activity (or at least none using that currency).


8408  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: Up to $1500 MtGox USD Code for MoneyPak on: September 01, 2012, 08:44:05 PM
Just a heads up MP are only up to $500 ($1,000 at Walmart).
8409  Economy / Speculation / Re: if bitcoin only served the "underground" economy... on: September 01, 2012, 06:50:08 PM
For example, an (arguable) estimation of US total economic production is it's GDP of ~14T if I'm not mistaken. That's much more that the entire USD money supply. Granted, you must better define "money supply" as many things may be used as money... but if you take for example the M2 aggregation for USD, that's around ~10 bi according to wikipedia. More than 1000 times lower than the GDP...
EDIT: Oups, my mistake, USD M2 is actually close to 10T... so yeah, not that far from the GDP, but that's still just a coincidence. Cheesy The M1 is lower. And bitcoin's 21M cap is the M0 of bitcoin. USD M0 is around 2,8T.

Anyway, my point is, money supply != economic production in a year. You can't compare "black market production" with bitcoin's monetary base of 21M and reach any meaningful number.

Halfway there.  You are right money supply != economic production.  However you can't say the relationship between GDP and money supply is coincidence.  The two are very much linked.

(Money Supply) * (Average Velocity of Money) = (Economic Production)
One reason the US money supply has grown so much is the depression combined with poor govt policies has caused a collapse in the velocity of money.  The two numbers are very close because velocity is only a little over 1 (each $1 in money supply is only changing hands once per year, think about how pathetically bad that is).

We can make educated guesses about the velocity of money in the bitcoin economy and thus solve the above equation for money supply.
8410  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Discussion about 10,000BTC Bet (Official) on: September 01, 2012, 06:16:11 PM
Well no it is a debt service default.  A technical default would be if there was some convenant attached to the investment.  Hypothetically say Pirate agreed to keep 100K BTC in a publicly known address.  If that were the case and he moved the funds he would be in technical default even IF he made all scheduled interest and principal payments.  Still both debt service defaults and technical defaults are both defaults and the default didn't occur on 08/29 just because he finally admitted it.

He failed to pay principal upon demand on 08/17
He failed to make interest payments upon demand on 08/19.
He failed to live up to his promise to bitlane for delayed full repayment on 08/21.

It is a debt service default.
8411  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Discussion about 10,000BTC Bet (Official) on: September 01, 2012, 06:09:56 PM
BTCST Defaulted on the 29th, get your facts straight.

Default is a failure of the debtor to meet the terms of the debt obligation. On 08/17 "investors" attempted to make withdrawals.  The terms of the BTCST were that principal and interest could be drawn on demand (demand account).  Pirate failed to pay out those investors on 08/17.  He also failed to make the next regularly scheduled interest payment.  Two weeks later he also stated he will not be paying out any interest post-closure.  All of those were causes for default.  Under any possible definition of the term, BTCST defaulted on 08/17 when it couldn't honor the terms of the "investment".  Pirate could have made the terms anything he wanted.  He could have indicated that upon demand accounts would be paid in 30 days.  Of course doing so would make the scam less attractive.  He set the terms and then couldn't meet them.

Try this on for size.  Don't make your mortgage payment instead call the bank up and saying you are closing the mortgage.  When the bank asks when you will be paying off the balance tell them you are stopping all interest and will pay them when you get the money.  Also be sure to let them know you aren't in default until you tell them you are in default.  Let me know how it works out.

Pirate admitting default 2 weeks after the fact doesn't change the fact that he was already in default the day he couldn't meet the terms of his obligation to creditors.
8412  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: when the price drops, i get depressed. why shouldn't i be? on: September 01, 2012, 03:10:34 PM
That likely mean you are too long.  When the price enough I see it as a chance to buy more. 
When it drops a little I get excited it might drop enough to hit my entry point.
Sometimes I get depressed when it doesn't.

You need to start reaching your own conclusions of value and when the market disagrees you have your course of action.
8413  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: pirate payments list -- accounts paid: 22/459 on: September 01, 2012, 01:54:30 PM
Soooo, did Pirate relay any more info to anyone last night at Midnight?

Is he planning on using the PPT bond holders not getting their individual BTC addresses to him as an excuse to further delay restitution? Many of them are wholly unable to comply for a lot of reasons beyond just the few that do not want to give this info. Sounds like a cop out to me. Especially without any valid proof as to why it has been requested to be done this way. The lack of information is frustrating, to say the least.

Stall, delay, divide is classic scammer operating procedures.

A week ago people wanted full balance plus interest up to the minute or repayment.
A couple days ago people would accept 50% to 80% of full balance and drop the interest since closing.
Today most would probably take 50%.
In a couple weeks most will take 20% or less.

Eventually Pirate will probably be able to repay a tiny fraction of what he took in and claim the situation resolved.

8414  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: Dank Bank Deposits - low risk, dank soul guarantee - 1.5%-2.5% weekly on: September 01, 2012, 04:19:13 AM
I think Rarity needs some drugs.

People like Rarity scare me.  Drugs about bad because they kill people?  Like achohol which is why it is banned right?  Oh wait that is one of those "acceptable" bad drugs.  What about cheeseburgers?  Fatty foods kills far more people in the US than "bad drugs".  Hell today it kills more people than even cigarettes that "bad drug" which is "bad" enough to publicly shame but not quite bad enough to ban.

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I can only hope your government does help you one day
Even if drugs are a problem, why would it be the govts job to help a citizen stop doing something they choose to do?  That kind of statist govt is the answer to everything mindset if far more harmful than someone getting high.

Appologize in advance for the thread derail.
8415  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2012-08-28 huffingtonpost.com - Chomping At The Bitcoin - The Ups And Downs Of C on: September 01, 2012, 04:00:23 AM
I think time will also help.  When Bitcoin is still around 10 years after genesis even those who don't understand exactly how it works but first heard about it in a CNBC snippet 7 years prior will have a little more confidence it isn't some pyramid scheme or HYIP.  SR also helps.  It is an "must have site" for some users and the only way they can pay is Bitcoin.  Not saying Bitcoin should rely on SR but having things that people want which require Bitcoins is useful.  People are more likely to try somethng new if they "have to" rather than just because "it isn't PayPal".
8416  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: You never backuped your wallet.dat? on: September 01, 2012, 02:52:05 AM
What is the relationship between a "regular" wallet and a "backup" file of the wallet?

for example.. I backup a wallet on 8/31 with 1btc in it. On 9/1 I receive 10btc (same addresses as the original wallet had) and on 9/5 the original file is lost but the backup is ok.

Would I still have the 11btc, or would I need to backup again after receiving that 10btc for it to be safe?

There is no difference.  The backup is a copy of the wallet.dat

In your example no second backup is necessary.  The satoshi client wallet file uses a concept of a "keypool".  By default the wallet keypool is 100 private keys.  So a backup contains all the used keys PLUS the next 100 keys.

Receiving coins to an existing address uses no keys.
Sending coins uses 1 new address/key for each send (change address).
Getting a new address from the wallet uses 1 new address/key (clicking new address button).

If your keypool is 100 then you are good for the next 100 new addresses/keys.  The tx involving the 101st address/key will be lost forever.

You can make the keypool as large as you want although anything over 1,000 addresses can take a while to generate.  IMHO the default keypool should likely be increased to 300 or 500.
8417  Economy / Auctions / Re: $2.24 on: September 01, 2012, 02:39:02 AM
Sweet crap guys.

1) You can login on Vanilla VISA website and see all activity on the card.  Pretty easy to prove what happened.

2) You must set the zipcode on Vanilla VISA website for online purchases.  Likely it is set to seller's zipcode and buyer used the buyer's zipcode in the purchase.
8418  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: blockchain.info discrepancy between actual wallet and website data on: September 01, 2012, 01:15:40 AM
I don't think I have any change addresses. In my case, this address is my wallet, my bitcoin program has only one address in it.

When I click the export button, I still have only one address displayed, and it's the abovementioned one.

If it is the "satoshi" (reference) client and you ever sent coins to any one (even yourself) even once you have a change address.  That is how Bitcoin works.
8419  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: blockchain.info discrepancy between actual wallet and website data on: September 01, 2012, 01:14:45 AM
OK in bitcoin-qt I have 4 addresses.  2 of them have no transactions and 2 do.  My balance according to bitcoin-qt is 25.41034921 BTC.

According to blockchain.info, address #1 has 24.99248018 BTC and address #2 has 0.12402675 BTC, totalling 25.11650693.
I double checked the 2 empty addresses against blockchain.info and they're both 0 BTC with no transactions.

I appear to have 0.29384228 BTC more than I should.

Short of exhaustively going through all 685 transactions and reconciling them against blockchain.info, any suggestions?

you may (almost certainly) have change address which don't show in bitcoin-qt client.
You can do a dump of your wallet to see all addresses including change addresses.
8420  Economy / Speculation / Re: No optimism , you guys on: September 01, 2012, 01:12:52 AM
Did you accidentally encrypt this post?  It obviously isn't English.
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