The whole concept is to make it possible for the small miner to rebuild an entire Babyjet around the proprietary HF chip with parts from Amazon.
Cheaply and quickly. Also better for long term maintenance.
If you have the ability and tenacity to resource and price parts better than HF, they wish to encourage that talent. Not restrict or constrain your creativity to force you to buy their hardware. This will dovetail extremely well with the MPP.
I don't think anyone is worried about being able to acquire a generic case or water cooler off amazon. What I do think is a concern is getting a PCB made and populated. Without knowing any details about the board this chip will have be go on it's impossible to know if it could be made DIY style and since many components today are surface mound and very fine pitch I'm guessing it is going to take more than a soldering iron to put one of these together. Here are a couple questions I'd like answered... 1. For those that placed orders via phone and have paid when can we expect confirmation emails and details about how to track our position in line? 2. What kind of chip package do they anticipate the ASIC being, BGA? some kind of standard socket? 3. How exactly will they calculate 'ROI' for the MPP and is that ROI in USD or BTC because they are accepting payment in BTC so my expectation is that ROI will be calculated in BTC but that isn't clear. They should post the exact methodology they are going to use because there is a reasonable chance the MPP comes into play the way difficulty is going. 4. When will specs or details about the board needed to run these chips be released? 5. Can we get answers to at least the MPP calculation question in writing from a company rep because not that I don't trust you cypherdoc but pre-order customers are essentially taking an early investor level risk w/o any written documentation thus far. I'm a gambler so I'm in for two but if we had more concrete answers to the above questions posted on the company website or at least by a company rep in this forum I'd be inclined to go for more. i will make sure all of these get answered. |
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Today I received a new order confirmation from HashFast for my august 9 order. It contains the following fine print (emphasis mine): Your order is expected to ship between October 20 and October 30, 2013. Physical delivery of your order will take place within days, depending on the shipment method selected. HashFast guarantees that all "Baby Jet" units from our first production batch will be delivered by December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more Baby Jet units, and HashFast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may at his or her discretion, cancel the undelivered portion and HashFast will issue a full refund the payment for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer's sole and exclusive remedy for HashFast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date. Buyer must cancel the order and request a refund by January 15, 2014 to avail him or herself of this remedy. Buyer to pay all taxes, duties and shipping costs on units delivered. I did not remember seeing this clause when I ordered an am not very happy about it. Basically they give customers only 15 days recourse to cancel if they don't deliver by December 31st. I saved a copy of the Terms of Sale when I bought and compared with the current version: old version: DELIVERY AND QUANTITIES. - Products shall be delivered EXWORKS (Incoterms 2000) Hashfast’s manufacturing facility, or other facility as designated by Hashfast, unless otherwise agreed in writing between Hashfast and Buyer. Except for delivery dates explicitly guaranteed in the order confirmation, delivery dates communicated or acknowledged by Hashfast are approximate only, and Hashfast shall not be liable for, nor shall Hashfast be in breach of its obligations to Buyer because of any delivery made within a reasonable time before or after the stated delivery date. Timely delivery requires Buyer to provide all necessary order and delivery information sufficiently prior to the agreed delivery date.
- In the event Buyer contests delivery, the Buyer must request a proof of delivery from Hashfast within ten (10) days of the date of Hashfast’s invoice or guaranteed delivery date (whichever occurs first), otherwise delivery shall be deemed completed. If Buyer fails to take delivery, then Hashfast may deliver the Products in consignment at Buyer’s costs and expenses.
- Buyer will give Hashfast written notice of failure to deliver and thirty (30) days within which to cure, unless the order confirmation explicitly guarantees a delivery date. In any case, Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy after such cure period or guaranteed delivery date is to cancel the affected and undelivered portions of the order.
- No order, Agreement or any part thereof may be rescheduled or cancelled without Hashfast’s prior written consent.
new version: DELIVERY AND QUANTITIES.
(a) Guaranteed Baby Jet Delivery Dates. All of the 550 Baby Jet units from Hashfast’s first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and Hashfast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer’s request and Hashfast will refund the payment for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy for Hashfast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date, and Buyer must cancel the order by January 15, 2014 to avail itself of this remedy.
(b) Other Delivery Dates. Except for the delivery dates described in Section 3(a) above and delivery dates explicitly guaranteed using the words “guaranteed delivery” in the order confirmation sent by Hashfast: (i) delivery dates communicated or acknowledged by Hashfast are approximate only; (ii) Hashfast shall not be liable for, nor shall Hashfast be in breach of its obligations to Buyer because of any delivery made within a reasonable time before or after the stated delivery date; and (iii) Buyer will give Hashfast written notice of failure to deliver and ten (10) days within which to cure. In any case, Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy after such cure period or guaranteed delivery date is to cancel the affected and undelivered portions of the order, and receive a refund for the undelivered portions that were cancelled.
(c) Products shall be delivered EXWORKS (Incoterms 2000) Hashfast’ manufacturing facility, or other facility as designated by Hashfast, unless otherwise agreed in writing between Hashfast and Buyer.
(d) In the event Buyer contests delivery, the Buyer must request a proof of delivery from Hashfast within ten (10) days of the date of Hashfast’ invoice or guaranteed delivery date (whichever occurs first), otherwise delivery shall be deemed completed. If Buyer fails to take delivery, then Hashfast may deliver the Products in consignment at Buyer’s costs and expenses. Timely delivery requires Buyer to provide all necessary order and delivery information sufficiently prior to the agreed delivery date. Delivery may also be contingent on full payment. No order, Agreement or any part thereof may be rescheduled or cancelled without Hashfast’ prior written consent except for cancellations permitted under this Section 3. Interestingly both the old and the new Terms of Sale are labeled 'HASHFAST ONLINE TERMS OF SALE Ver. 1.B – Revised August 8, 2013' even though they are different. So only 15 days to get a refund after the December shipping date. Not cool HashFast. Don't get me wrong, I like the MPP you guys have rolled out recently. But changing the Terms of Sale without notifying customers is a bit sneaky TBH. I expect this behavior from a company like BFL, but not HashFast. come on ninja. the mere fact that they actually inserted the full refund clause for Dec 31 as they had been advertising previously is a huge plus. even i, as the paid sponsor, have been stressing over this single promise not being in the T&C. i have been pushing them hard to get this inserted somewhere. this makes it a reality as opposed to before when it wasn't sure if they were merely talking up a scam. i guarantee you that you, i, and every other BJ buyer btwn Nov 1 to Dec 31 will be on high red alert if they don't deliver in Oct as promised and ready to jam the refund button come Jan 1.
15 days will be plenty of time. |
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Guys,
I will be visiting the HashFast office within Uniquify next Tuesday.
What non-NDA type info might I collect that would most be helpful to all of you?
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Nothing against John or his company, but pre-ordering mining equipment that has an "anticipated" delivery date more than eight weeks away immediately following a 35% difficulty increase sounds bonkers. What's the refund policy btw? Payment options? A few weeks late in this environment could easily be the difference between profit and loss. Has any vendor yet delivered product on schedule?
+1 In business it should be the companies taking the risk, not the customers. The lead time is too long here to make an informed decision as to ROI. After all, if the ROI was so awesome they would keep them & mine them themselves. +1 I've mentioned this before that all pre-order asic will end up as either a never deliver scam or delay shipping while I sell units out the back door to friends and their cousins scam. Now they may ship a few 1st units to collect more money but nothing will get shipped to you same day as you order that makes 100% per month or for that matter even 50% per month ROI. Too many hands touching it on its way to you and being tempted by it. well, in the US they have laws against this. HF wants to become a big player in the asic chip business. there is no way they are going to purposely sully their reputation just to mine a few extra coins i can tell you that. they may be late sure, but they aren't going to cheat you by pre-mining. |
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[sarcasm]It's always nice when someone enters the discussion only to push their wares. It really entices me to purchase whatever it is they are selling. The readers of this thread obviously don't have the skills to navigate to the "Goods" forum, even if they wanted to make a purchase. Oh, if anyone in the thread is interested, I have a tractor for sale. You know, you can use the tractor to dig for gold nuggets. Where did I put that link again?[/sarcasm]
well since i moderate and started this thread: Last chance to buy a HashFast BabyJet Asic Miner! Only 179 left!!!  https://hashfast.com/shop/babyjet/ |
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So what happened to the verbiage about publishing the order book and weekly progress updates?
good question. pester them about it via support@hashfast.com or pm them. |
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It happened to the company that built my gpu miners from back in 2011.
When paypal figured out they were selling bitcoin related stuff they stepped in and unilaterally canceled my order.
I'm actually very surprised that KNC had been allowed to push millions of USD'S thru paypal like this. Makes me wonder what they've told them upfront.
Assuming the best that paypal knows what's going on, from Bitcoin's perspective as a payment system, this is fantastic news. It means that paypal has capitulated and has allowed their money grubbing selves to surface. Kudos to KNC for making that happen.
Otoh, if PayPal doesn't know what's going on, there indeed does exist the possibility of account freezing.
I'd put that at a very small risk at this point.
They've changed their policies. in what way, officially? |
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blow me, BTC only payments haha, maybe if it had paypal I would take a risk free gamble.
You guys do realize that PayPal will hold/cancel your account for anythng btc related that they catch wind of it? Pahahahahahahahahaa ? What accounts are Paypal holding or cancelling for BTC related activity? Considering they've both become the payment processor for more than one Bitcoin related company, and have actively been looking at accepting BTC as a payment method themselves. It happened to the company that built my gpu miners from back in 2011. When paypal figured out they were selling bitcoin related stuff they stepped in and unilaterally canceled my order. I'm actually very surprised that KNC had been allowed to push millions of USD'S thru paypal like this. Makes me wonder what they've told them upfront. Assuming the best that paypal knows what's going on, from Bitcoin's perspective as a payment system, this is fantastic news. It means that paypal has capitulated and has allowed their money grubbing selves to surface. Kudos to KNC for making that happen. Otoh, if PayPal doesn't know what's going on, there indeed does exist the possibility of account freezing. I'd put that at a very small risk at this point. |
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the original Babyjet itself will be a mid tower case again with standard parts.
Nice. Would be great if the format of the HF boards is ATX or mini-ITX compatible so you can mount them in regular PC cases. The whole concept is to make it possible for the small miner to rebuild an entire Babyjet around the proprietary HF chip with parts from Amazon. Cheaply and quickly. Also better for long term maintenance. If you have the ability and tenacity to resource and price parts better than HF, they wish to encourage that talent. Not restrict or constrain your creativity to force you to buy their hardware. This will dovetail extremely well with the MPP. |
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At this rate, all available units will be gone by the weekend.
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Oh yes.
Babyjets ship WITH psu's internally. Therefore more portable, stackable, presentable, etc.
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Well staying back on topic, I just made an order for 12 Baby Jets with next day air. I hope to get them on time. I also have two ASIC SC Single pre-orders from 13 months ago from BFL. I hope to get them in 2 more weeks ™
Could end up like BFL 13 months later  no way. |
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Any news on multi chip units?
In one of his previous posts Simon mentioned rack mountable units.
I'd like to see a 3 chip unit for around $10K mark which I believe is achievable.
they all got bought. |
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Well staying back on topic, I just made an order for 12 Baby Jets with next day air. I hope to get them on time. I also have two ASIC SC Single pre-orders from 13 months ago from BFL. I hope to get them in 2 more weeks ™
you've made the right choice. |
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great news coming from HF about the MPP.
if the MPP is required to hand out chips, the surrounding standard hardware will be obtainable inexpensively from online stores like Amazon. even the water cooler should only cost around $60.
the original Babyjet itself will be a mid tower case again with standard parts.
Eduardo should be releasing more specifics soon.
the sales inventory counter is dropping quickly. if you want one, you'd better move fast. there will not be an unlimited supply like with KNC.
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He's referring to the argument you guys were having in his 'endorsement' thread about whether or not it's "fraudulent" to place a CC order you intend to cancel, which in his view justifies HashFast not accepting CC's. Although Ironically he's ripping off my line about how not accepting CC's and not having a refund policy means you're cutting off your balls and handing it to the chipmakers: It's obviously not fraud to cancel an order - although it's kind of a dick move.
However OBVIOUSLY we should want the best deal and the lowest risk for the customers, since we are the customers - this applies to HF and all the other ASIC makers. I don't know why anyone would think it would be a good idea to chop off our balls and hand them to them on a silver platter.
I guess I should be flattered, since I guess it makes me "influential" - he also referenced something I said in his first post I think the Miner protection plan makes Hashfast a slightly better deal. It ameliorates a lot of the risk caused by the possibility of HashFast being a few weeks late. I think KnC should match it. actually not quite. yes, i was using your line (for a second time ) purposely but thought you meant something different. what i am saying is that according to Bitcoinorama, even if some great new company appears that unquestionably has a superior technology that is likely to enable them to take over the market, as long as KNC hasn't done anything illegal to deceive, misportray, or misrepresent their product, you are ethically and legally bound to stay with them. you have entered a legal contract binding you to them. you are not allowed to cx your orders b/c of market events. you are expected to suck it up and lose money. i don't agree that it's illegal hence the "cut off your balls" comment. Well it's in black and white, I posted the legality on the issue. I'm tired of going through it, but if you want to PM me over it go ahead, anything but dragging it through someone else's thread. I don't believe you consciously realised the legality of the issue, although you have admitted you understood it to be morally inexcusable. I agree minor protection is something other companies should consider, but perhaps KnC may lead with enough time for ROI, in dollars at least, as they are priced not to be a concern within a reasonable timeframe. Will have to wait and see. I disagree about payment choice and accountability, this is the precise point in time that you demand the security in payments you wish a company to provide. I don't doubt Hashfast are real, and have a chip in mind, what I'm concerned about, and have constantly raised issue with irrespective of the company, and including KnC is treating customers funds like a casino. There's absolutely no reason for it to be that way, we shouldn't be expected to 'hand our balls over' when it's completely unnecessary. It's a choice w.r.t. accountability and recourse. Say there's a catastrophic failure, or delay beyond a reasonable timeframe, and they have to refund as promised in January, only monies have been spent, where's the cash coming for the refund if no third party is willing to accept liability? It's not, no matter how pretty the ribbons. Unquestionable superior technology? It's the same 28nm kid, and if it's late, it's late, only realistically it's now recently been reworded as only an 'anticipated' date with no refund until which point in time refunds are untenable. That's not me kissing one co's ass over another, that's taking a step back and observing the situation from a logical standpoint. that's the thing. b/c HF is going to be getting 400gh/s out of 1 chip vs. KNC needing 4 chips, right there, HF is going to have a significant production cost advantage. so even if KNC does offer a MPP, the cost advantage will eventually grind them down. in addition, it appears there is even further efficiency advantages that HF suspects b/c of the package size coming out of KNC. don't ask me to go into details b/c i don't fully understand it but am digging for more info as we speak. |
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Well I held off on pre order on BFL and I did pre ordered avalon, so far I made the right call and now I have a pre ordered for some baby jets.
you and me both. i thank gaud everyday about having made it thru the Avalon gauntlet, ie, Batch 2, unscathed. my 3 units have worked perfectly too as an added bonus. i too had the good sense (luck?) to cancel not only a BFL but bASIC units as soon as i detected problems. this lame brain theory by Bitcoinorama that we have this contractual obligation via cc's to cut off our balls and hand them over to red flagged companies is insane. so i guess i'm coming at this from a totally different perspective than the burnt ones here. What? He's referring to the argument you guys were having in his 'endorsement' thread about whether or not it's "fraudulent" to place a CC order you intend to cancel, which in his view justifies HashFast not accepting CC's. Although Ironically he's ripping off my line about how not accepting CC's and not having a refund policy means you're cutting off your balls and handing it to the chipmakers: It's obviously not fraud to cancel an order - although it's kind of a dick move.
However OBVIOUSLY we should want the best deal and the lowest risk for the customers, since we are the customers - this applies to HF and all the other ASIC makers. I don't know why anyone would think it would be a good idea to chop off our balls and hand them to them on a silver platter.
I guess I should be flattered, since I guess it makes me "influential" - he also referenced something I said in his first post I think the Miner protection plan makes Hashfast a slightly better deal. It ameliorates a lot of the risk caused by the possibility of HashFast being a few weeks late. I think KnC should match it. actually not quite. yes, i was using your line (for a second time ) purposely but thought you meant something different. what i am saying is that according to Bitcoinorama, even if some great new company appears that unquestionably has a superior technology that is likely to enable them to take over the market, as long as KNC hasn't done anything illegal to deceive, misportray, or misrepresent their product, you are ethically and legally bound to stay with them. you have entered a legal contract binding you to them. you are not allowed to cx your orders b/c of market events. you are expected to suck it up and lose money. i don't agree that it's illegal hence the "cut off your balls" comment. |
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PREORDERS HURT BTC ECONOMY BY PUTING ENORMOUS GAINS IN HANDS OF BUSINESS
This makes them behave as if they got all of us by the balls (I am thinking BFL / Avalon after batch 1)
I remember this saying fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, 3rd time no preorders lol
STOP PAYING FOR VAPORWARE demand manufacturers do what ALL normal businesses do TAKE RISK and have 100% motivation to get the product in your hands as they need to cover their R&D
This whole money upfront business is making this the only tech sector where electronics actually go UP in prices months after it starts selling.
If you dont like it STOP GIVING them MONEY and hold your BTC which is a hell of an investment on its OWN.
Sorry had to rant but this is just plain WRONG
you are looking at this completely wrong. these are money printing machines that you expect to put money in your pocket while also benefitting from a price rise from a fixed money supply. show me one pc you've ever bought that returned anything of similar value back to you over time. |
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