► ► ►HashFast Endorsement

[BitCsByBit]

Any news on multi chip units?

In one of his previous posts Simon mentioned rack mountable units.

I'd like to see a 3 chip unit for around $10K mark which I believe is achievable.

they all got bought.

From hashfast sales

We plan on launching our Sierra machine, which is a multi-chip design, in the beginning on November.

Thanks Aussie,

I missed that.

Edit: Hopefully it is a better deal than the BabyJet.

[minternj]

So what happened to the verbiage about publishing the order book and weekly progress updates?

[cypherdoc]

So what happened to the verbiage about publishing the order book and weekly progress updates?

good question.  pester them about it via support@hashfast.com or pm them.

[cypherdoc]

only 179 left.

[cypherdoc]

Guys,

I will be visiting the HashFast office within Uniquify next Tuesday.

What non-NDA type info might I collect that would most be helpful to all of you?

[pmorici]

The whole concept is to make it possible for the small miner to rebuild an entire Babyjet around the proprietary HF chip with parts from Amazon.

Cheaply and quickly. Also better for long term maintenance.

If you have the ability and tenacity to resource and price parts better than HF, they wish to encourage that talent. Not restrict or constrain your creativity to force you to buy their hardware. This will dovetail extremely well with the MPP.

    I don't think anyone is worried about being able to acquire a generic case or water cooler off amazon.  What I do think is a concern is getting a PCB made and populated.  Without knowing any details about the board this chip will have be go on it's impossible to know if it could be made DIY style and since many components today are surface mound and very fine pitch I'm guessing it is going to take more than a soldering iron to put one of these together.

    Here are a couple questions I'd like answered...

 1. For those that placed orders via phone and have paid when can we expect confirmation emails and details about how to track our position in line?

 2. What kind of chip package do they anticipate the ASIC being, BGA? some kind of standard socket?

 3. How exactly will they calculate 'ROI' for the MPP and is that ROI in USD or BTC because they are accepting payment in BTC so my expectation is that ROI will be calculated in BTC but that isn't clear.  They should post the exact methodology they are going to use because there is a reasonable chance the MPP comes into play the way difficulty is going.

 4. When will specs or details about the board needed to run these chips be released?

 5. Can we get answers to at least the MPP calculation question in writing from a company rep because not that I don't trust you cypherdoc but pre-order customers are essentially taking an early investor level risk w/o any written documentation thus far.

    I'm a gambler so I'm in for two but if we had more concrete answers to the above questions posted on the company website or at least by a company rep in this forum I'd be inclined to go for more.

[cypherdoc]

The whole concept is to make it possible for the small miner to rebuild an entire Babyjet around the proprietary HF chip with parts from Amazon.

Cheaply and quickly. Also better for long term maintenance.

If you have the ability and tenacity to resource and price parts better than HF, they wish to encourage that talent. Not restrict or constrain your creativity to force you to buy their hardware. This will dovetail extremely well with the MPP.

    I don't think anyone is worried about being able to acquire a generic case or water cooler off amazon.  What I do think is a concern is getting a PCB made and populated.  Without knowing any details about the board this chip will have be go on it's impossible to know if it could be made DIY style and since many components today are surface mound and very fine pitch I'm guessing it is going to take more than a soldering iron to put one of these together.

    Here are a couple questions I'd like answered...

 1. For those that placed orders via phone and have paid when can we expect confirmation emails and details about how to track our position in line?

 2. What kind of chip package do they anticipate the ASIC being, BGA? some kind of standard socket?

 3. How exactly will they calculate 'ROI' for the MPP and is that ROI in USD or BTC because they are accepting payment in BTC so my expectation is that ROI will be calculated in BTC but that isn't clear.  They should post the exact methodology they are going to use because there is a reasonable chance the MPP comes into play the way difficulty is going.

 4. When will specs or details about the board needed to run these chips be released?

 5. Can we get answers to at least the MPP calculation question in writing from a company rep because not that I don't trust you cypherdoc but pre-order customers are essentially taking an early investor level risk w/o any written documentation thus far.

    I'm a gambler so I'm in for two but if we had more concrete answers to the above questions posted on the company website or at least by a company rep in this forum I'd be inclined to go for more.

i will make sure all of these get answered.

[jspielberg]

    I don't think anyone is worried about being able to acquire a generic case or water cooler off amazon.  What I do think is a concern is getting a PCB made and populated.  Without knowing any details about the board this chip will have be go on it's impossible to know if it could be made DIY style and since many components today are surface mound and very fine pitch I'm guessing it is going to take more than a soldering iron to put one of these together.

Cypherdoc -
I also am concerned about the PCB and chip not being packaged together for the MPP (if worse comes to worse). 
Could you please request that we get a company official to state that HF will provide the extra chips with any custom components that can't be readily sourced (i.e. PCBs)

I think the MPP is very innovative and is what is making most of us pre-order folk willing to gamble on HF.  I think many of us are holding back further investment until we can get confirmation that the the MPP will provide enough hardware for the technically competent but non-EE degreed to move forward.

[cypherdoc]

   I don't think anyone is worried about being able to acquire a generic case or water cooler off amazon.  What I do think is a concern is getting a PCB made and populated.  Without knowing any details about the board this chip will have be go on it's impossible to know if it could be made DIY style and since many components today are surface mound and very fine pitch I'm guessing it is going to take more than a soldering iron to put one of these together.

Cypherdoc -
I also am concerned about the PCB and chip not being packaged together for the MPP (if worse comes to worse).  
Could you please request that we get a company official to state that HF will provide the extra chips with any custom components that can't be readily sourced (i.e. PCBs)

I think the MPP is very innovative and is what is making most of us pre-order folk willing to gamble on HF.  I think many of us are holding back further investment until we can get confirmation that the the MPP will provide enough hardware for the technically competent but non-EE degreed to move forward.

i have been probing at exactly this issue since one of you brought it up the other nite.  i'm trying to get the answer but i'm not sure they even know as they are trying to get the tapeout done any day now.  i'm hoping it happens next Tuesday if i'm lucky.  

don't worry, i'll get you the answer.

[cypherdoc]

a few comments:

1.  i think cc payments have downside too.  they can create a false demand picture, much like financial derivatives.  anything goes wrong and those payments can vanish in an instant causing a company to implode.
2.  BTC payments, otoh, show a truer picture of real demand since they can't be reversed.  this is a fully voluntary payment option.  given sales up to this point, it doesn't seem to be a problem for many.
3.  regarding HF pre-mining with your BJ's until Dec 31:  why would they do that when it would guarantee that you, as the buyer, would not get your ROI within 3 mo?  you could then invoke the MPP which would force HF to give you up to 2x-4x your original hashing power for free.  ex:  500GH originally bought --> 2000GH free.  i've also made it clear to them that many of you are concerned about getting low cost, or at cost hardware to support those chips.  the MPP encourages good behavior and an on time delivery.
4.  the Dec 31 full refund date protects you from HF being totally incompetent and doing a BFL and stringing everyone's pre-orders out years on end.  it gives you a full opt out provision after a reasonable amount of non-performance in terms of time if you lose faith in HF.

[Xialla]

a few comments:

1.  i think cc payments have downside too.  they can create a false demand picture, much like financial derivatives.  anything goes wrong and those payments can vanish in an instant causing a company to implode.
2.  BTC payments, otoh, show a truer picture of real demand since they can't be reversed.  this is a fully voluntary payment option.  given sales up to this point, it doesn't seem to be a problem for many.
3.  regarding HF pre-mining with your BJ's until Dec 31:  why would they do they when that would guarantee that you, as the buyer, would not get your ROI within 3 mo?  you could then invoke the MPP which would force HF to give you up to 4x your original hashing power for free.  ex:  500GH originally bought --> 2000GH free.  i've also made it clear to them that many of you are concerned about getting low cost, or at cost hardware to support those chips.  the MPP encourages good behavior and an on time delivery.
4.  the Dec 31 full refund date protects you from HF being totally incompetent and doing a BFL and stringing everyone's pre-orders out years on end.  it gives you a full opt out provision after a reasonable amount of non-performance in terms of time if you lose faith in HF.

you are right sir, but please try to understand customers like me, who are already pissed two times (by BFL and Avalon), so any other pre-order based company is scam and shit in advance.

[cypherdoc]

a few comments:

1.  i think cc payments have downside too.  they can create a false demand picture, much like financial derivatives.  anything goes wrong and those payments can vanish in an instant causing a company to implode.
2.  BTC payments, otoh, show a truer picture of real demand since they can't be reversed.  this is a fully voluntary payment option.  given sales up to this point, it doesn't seem to be a problem for many.
3.  regarding HF pre-mining with your BJ's until Dec 31:  why would they do they when that would guarantee that you, as the buyer, would not get your ROI within 3 mo?  you could then invoke the MPP which would force HF to give you up to 4x your original hashing power for free.  ex:  500GH originally bought --> 2000GH free.  i've also made it clear to them that many of you are concerned about getting low cost, or at cost hardware to support those chips.  the MPP encourages good behavior and an on time delivery.
4.  the Dec 31 full refund date protects you from HF being totally incompetent and doing a BFL and stringing everyone's pre-orders out years on end.  it gives you a full opt out provision after a reasonable amount of non-performance in terms of time if you lose faith in HF.

you are right sir, but please try to understand customers like me, with are already pissed two times (by BFL and Avalon), so any other pre-order based company is scam and shit in advance.

yeah, that's really too bad.  i feel for you.  as i've said so many times here, i don't know how i made it thru the Avalon gauntlet with my batch 2 order.  must be leading a clean life or something.  it makes it easier for me to promote pre-orders as a result.

i guess you have to realize that until the marketplace clamps down and forces all these companies to NOT do pre-orders then it will continue.  given the popularity of Bitcoin in general, and the demand for Asic mining equipment in particular, i don't see it happening anytime soon. 

you run the risk of never getting into the game.  seriously.

[SirWizz]

you run the risk of never getting into the game.  seriously.

False. Why not order from someone that accepts CC/PayPal? That way you can have at least some protection and peace of mind. If there was no alternative to paying with Bitcoin only the statement above would apply, as it is it is patently false.

The truth is HasfFast is NOT currently the best avenue for investment if you're looking into buying an ASIC and get it sometime in November/December of this year. I think most people that invested in them so far have done so only to hedge their bets (if KNC/Bitfury/Cointerra/others don't deliver, maybe HashFast will).

[cypherdoc]

you run the risk of never getting into the game.  seriously.

False. Why not order from someone that accepts CC/PayPal? That way you can have at least some protection and peace of mind. If there was no alternative to paying with Bitcoin only the statement above would apply, as it is it is patently false.

The truth is HasfFast is NOT currently the best avenue for investment if you're looking into buying an ASIC and get it sometime in November/December of this year. I think most people that invested in them so far have done so only to hedge their bets (if KNC/Bitfury/Cointerra/others don't deliver, maybe HashFast will).

i meant in the context of not buying into a pre-order scheme.  ALL the companies are doing that right now so you run the risk of ALL of them being a scam cc or not.

but yes, certainly cc/pp gives you a level of protection as long as you don't let it run beyond the 60d chargeback period.  

the only counterpoint i'd make is that HF, by only accepting BTC, has demonstrated a restraint to NOT bring in as much money via pre-orders as the other companies seem not to be able to resist by using cc/pp.  they also do want to help the BTC economy by doing it this way.  it allows BTC to circulate and change hands to buy real products, not just Alpaca socks.  

you need to give them some credit for that.

[crumbs]

...
the only counterpoint i'd make is that HF, by only accepting BTC, has demonstrated a restraint to NOT bring in as much money via pre-orders as the other companies seem not to be able to resist by using cc/pp.  they also do want to help the BTC economy by doing it this way.  it allows BTC to circulate and change hands to buy real products, not just Alpaca socks.  
...

This argument is absurd on its face.  The BTC will be immediately cashed out to fiat, to pay for expenses, development & production.
If that's "circulation," simply cash out your BTC to credit card yourself, then pay with your credit card.
It makes no difference to the bitcoin economy who cashes out bitcoins, you or HashFast.
Cypherdoc, if you're going to spin, step up your game.

[AsicShill]

We have no idea what they are doing with their BTC.  They said they had financing already lined up.

If they have just been holding it, they have already made like 10% (103 -> 114 on Mt.Gox)
The whales seem to be pumping up the price lately for reasons unknown.

[cypherdoc]

...
the only counterpoint i'd make is that HF, by only accepting BTC, has demonstrated a restraint to NOT bring in as much money via pre-orders as the other companies seem not to be able to resist by using cc/pp.  they also do want to help the BTC economy by doing it this way.  it allows BTC to circulate and change hands to buy real products, not just Alpaca socks.  
...

This argument is absurd on its face.  The BTC will be immediately cashed out to fiat, to pay for expenses, development & production.
If that's "circulation," simply cash out your BTC to credit card yourself, then pay with your credit card.
It makes no difference to the bitcoin economy who cashes out bitcoins, you or HashFast.
Cypherdoc, if you're going to spin, step up your game.

do you even bother to think before you troll?

it doesn't matter if they cash their BTC to USD via their own cc before they buy a BJ or if they use their BTC directly.  it still represents an ability to use their BTC hoard to purchase something useful.  the BTC is exchanging hands to someone else either way.  that's called money velocity.

get it?

[crumbs]

...
the only counterpoint i'd make is that HF, by only accepting BTC, has demonstrated a restraint to NOT bring in as much money via pre-orders as the other companies seem not to be able to resist by using cc/pp.  they also do want to help the BTC economy by doing it this way.  it allows BTC to circulate and change hands to buy real products, not just Alpaca socks.  
...

This argument is absurd on its face.  The BTC will be immediately cashed out to fiat, to pay for expenses, development & production.
If that's "circulation," simply cash out your BTC to credit card yourself, then pay with your credit card.
It makes no difference to the bitcoin economy who cashes out bitcoins, you or HashFast.
Cypherdoc, if you're going to spin, step up your game.

do you even bother to think before you troll?

it doesn't matter if they cash their BTC to USD via their own cc before they buy a BJ or if they use their BTC directly.  it still represents an ability to use their BTC hoard to purchase something useful.  the BTC is exchanging hands to someone else either way.  that's called money velocity.

get it?

Cypherdoc, i'm sure you know quite well that "changing hands" does not constitute velocity.
If it was, all we'd have to do to increase BTC velocity is send each other equal amounts of BTC.  I send you 1K BTC, you send me 1K BTC.  We got velocity. Rinse & repeat.
Think before posting catty comebacks.

[cypherdoc]

...
the only counterpoint i'd make is that HF, by only accepting BTC, has demonstrated a restraint to NOT bring in as much money via pre-orders as the other companies seem not to be able to resist by using cc/pp.  they also do want to help the BTC economy by doing it this way.  it allows BTC to circulate and change hands to buy real products, not just Alpaca socks.  
...

This argument is absurd on its face.  The BTC will be immediately cashed out to fiat, to pay for expenses, development & production.
If that's "circulation," simply cash out your BTC to credit card yourself, then pay with your credit card.
It makes no difference to the bitcoin economy who cashes out bitcoins, you or HashFast.
Cypherdoc, if you're going to spin, step up your game.

do you even bother to think before you troll?

it doesn't matter if they cash their BTC to USD via their own cc before they buy a BJ or if they use their BTC directly.  it still represents an ability to use their BTC hoard to purchase something useful.  the BTC is exchanging hands to someone else either way.  that's called money velocity.

get it?

Cypherdoc, i'm sure you know quite well that "changing hands" does not constitute velocity.
If it was, all we'd have to do to increase BTC velocity is send each other equal amounts of BTC.  I send you 1K BTC, you send me 1K BTC.  We got velocity. Rinse & repeat.
Think before posting catty comebacks.

but that's not what's happening here.

buyers are being given a chance to buy real hardware and dis-hoard their BTC for useful purposes. 

you're constructing a straw man argument to criticize HF.

[crumbs]

We have no idea what they are doing with their BTC.  They said they had financing already lined up.

If they have financing lined up, they sure don't need to take pre-orders.  Especially non-refundable pre-orders.
We've already been through this once, let's not dig up this dead hag just to beat it some more.

If they have just been holding it, they have already made like 10% (103 -> 114 on Mt.Gox)

I'm sure their customers would have made the same 10% if they held their coin.

The whales seem to be pumping up the price lately for reasons unknown.

It's called a $15+ spread.