Have you ordered your HashFast Baby Jet yet?

[cypherdoc]

Well I held off on pre order on BFL and I did pre ordered avalon, so far I made the right call and now I have a pre ordered for some baby jets.

you and me both.  i thank gaud everyday about having made it thru the Avalon gauntlet, ie, Batch 2, unscathed.  my 3 units have worked perfectly too as an added bonus.  i too had the good sense (luck?) to cancel not only a BFL but bASIC units as soon as i detected problems.

this lame brain theory by Bitcoinorama that we have this contractual obligation via cc's to cut off our balls and hand them over to red flagged companies is insane.

so i guess i'm coming at this from a totally different perspective than the burnt ones here. 

[DyslexicZombei]

I know pre-orders are scary due to all the uncertainties but I think I set up the best Win/Win Group Buy with the lowest purchasing & hosting costs to be found anywhere, on the other forum:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=274055.0

- John K. handles all the funds & ordering details so the Group Buyer (me) can't run off with the funds which has happened with scumbags previously.
- He will be handling any refund requests, if necessary. If a mfg. gives John K. a hard time over a refund, you can bet they'll be banned from this forum forever.
- He has my AM shares currently worth about $500 as collateral for 2-3 months & will have admin access to the HF/CT miner to make me behave during miner payouts until folks get comfortable
- HashFast promises chips up to 4X of your order (1.6 to 2 TH total) if you don't make ROI in 3 months. If you're a miner, their MPP seems to be the best hedge against not meeting ROI from your miner purchase due to possible delays or runaway network difficulty.


Most folks don't have $6K lying around for opportunities like this. I could've just joined a Group Buy & bought a quarter of a Baby Jet, but I also wasn't happy with the lack of a reasonable exit strategy from other listed Group Buys. TGB projections show any miner will be useless in a year; might as well sell it at the 6-7 month mark when most of the annual ROI (90%+) have already been captured and the device still has some resale value.

I thought about all the risks involved for the people taking the plunge, and I've done my best to ameliorate pre-order fraud concerns & set up this Group Buy in a way, that the people involved get access to the best equipment & the best values (found only at the high end) while minimizing their exposure to risk.

I truly think Group Buys like this (and mining shares) will be the only real way hobby miners will be able to keep up in the future. I'm aiming to set myself up as a GB co-ordinator so that I can continue to get access to the best equipment and best values for smaller GBs in 2013/2014.

There's currently 28 share reservations left, if anyone's interested in the least expensive - and safest - method to own part of a Baby Jet with 2.75% hosting fees.

[Bitcoinorama]

Well I held off on pre order on BFL and I did pre ordered avalon, so far I made the right call and now I have a pre ordered for some baby jets.

you and me both.  i thank gaud everyday about having made it thru the Avalon gauntlet, ie, Batch 2, unscathed.  my 3 units have worked perfectly too as an added bonus.  i too had the good sense (luck?) to cancel not only a BFL but bASIC units as soon as i detected problems.

this lame brain theory by Bitcoinorama that we have this contractual obligation via cc's to cut off our balls and hand them over to red flagged companies is insane.

so i guess i'm coming at this from a totally different perspective than the burnt ones here. 

What?

[eve]

Remember No Pre order. and don't buy if they don't accept credit cards and paypal

[Loredo]

Just curious of those who have ordered or are on the fence, the shop is open again and taking orders.. Baby Jet

Cant wait to see 1 400Gh/s chip running in a box.. Ill deff be trying to OC it a bit to push the limits of the Baby Jet!

This is definitely just sayin, and in no way challenging your decision to buy a Baby Jet.

That said, from the sound of your post, if I were you, I'd sit back and ask myself if I'm overly wedded to the pure idea of "high hash power" after all this time ("Can't wait to see 1 400 GH/s chip running in a box").  The second sentence seems to support that Need for Speed.

Again, just saying, and encouraging introspection.  This may not be a business decision for you, but there are risks that it could turn out to be little more than an expensive hobby.

BTW, I'd also point out the the vendor that "Baby Jet" is not that good a name, all in all.  People in forums like to abbreviate things, and a name that abbreviates to "BJ" was likely not the best choice...

[Loredo]

this lame brain theory by Bitcoinorama that we have this contractual obligation via cc's to cut off our balls and hand them over to red flagged companies is insane.

Not sure what you're saying here.  Every vendor -every one, even those who have demonstrated some shipping- continue to have some red flags.  And, that includes HashFast.

I interpret what he says as that there are enough risk factors already to add outright, unprotected, failure to deliver as the ultimate one, at least from a financial standpoint.

[Ytterbium]

Well I held off on pre order on BFL and I did pre ordered avalon, so far I made the right call and now I have a pre ordered for some baby jets.

you and me both.  i thank gaud everyday about having made it thru the Avalon gauntlet, ie, Batch 2, unscathed.  my 3 units have worked perfectly too as an added bonus.  i too had the good sense (luck?) to cancel not only a BFL but bASIC units as soon as i detected problems.

this lame brain theory by Bitcoinorama that we have this contractual obligation via cc's to cut off our balls and hand them over to red flagged companies is insane.

so i guess i'm coming at this from a totally different perspective than the burnt ones here.  

What?

He's referring to the argument you guys were having in his 'endorsement' thread about whether or not it's "fraudulent" to place a CC order you intend to cancel, which in his view justifies HashFast not accepting CC's. Although Ironically he's ripping off my line about how not accepting CC's and not having a refund policy means you're cutting off your balls and handing it to the chipmakers:

It's obviously not fraud to cancel an order - although it's kind of a dick move.

However OBVIOUSLY we should want the best deal and the lowest risk for the customers, since we are the customers - this applies to HF and all the other ASIC makers. I don't know why anyone would think it would be a good idea to chop off our balls and hand them to them on a silver platter.

I guess I should be flattered, since I guess it makes me "influential" - he also referenced something I said in his first post

I think the Miner protection plan makes Hashfast a slightly better deal.  It ameliorates a lot of the risk caused by the possibility of HashFast being a few weeks late. I think KnC should match it.

[cypherdoc]

Well I held off on pre order on BFL and I did pre ordered avalon, so far I made the right call and now I have a pre ordered for some baby jets.

you and me both.  i thank gaud everyday about having made it thru the Avalon gauntlet, ie, Batch 2, unscathed.  my 3 units have worked perfectly too as an added bonus.  i too had the good sense (luck?) to cancel not only a BFL but bASIC units as soon as i detected problems.

this lame brain theory by Bitcoinorama that we have this contractual obligation via cc's to cut off our balls and hand them over to red flagged companies is insane.

so i guess i'm coming at this from a totally different perspective than the burnt ones here.  

What?

He's referring to the argument you guys were having in his 'endorsement' thread about whether or not it's "fraudulent" to place a CC order you intend to cancel, which in his view justifies HashFast not accepting CC's. Although Ironically he's ripping off my line about how not accepting CC's and not having a refund policy means you're cutting off your balls and handing it to the chipmakers:

It's obviously not fraud to cancel an order - although it's kind of a dick move.

However OBVIOUSLY we should want the best deal and the lowest risk for the customers, since we are the customers - this applies to HF and all the other ASIC makers. I don't know why anyone would think it would be a good idea to chop off our balls and hand them to them on a silver platter.

I guess I should be flattered, since I guess it makes me "influential" - he also referenced something I said in his first post

I think the Miner protection plan makes Hashfast a slightly better deal.  It ameliorates a lot of the risk caused by the possibility of HashFast being a few weeks late. I think KnC should match it.

actually not quite.  

yes, i was using your line (for a second time ) purposely but thought you meant something different.

what i am saying is that according to Bitcoinorama, even if some great new company appears that unquestionably has a superior technology that is likely to enable them to take over the market, as long as KNC hasn't done anything illegal to deceive, misportray, or misrepresent their product, you are ethically and legally bound to stay with them.  you have entered a legal contract binding you to them. you are not allowed to cx your orders b/c of market events. you are expected to suck it up and lose money.

i don't agree that it's illegal hence the "cut off your balls" comment. 

[plasmoske]

How many fucking topics do we need for HashFast?

[Bitcoinorama]

He's referring to the argument you guys were having in his 'endorsement' thread about whether or not it's "fraudulent" to place a CC order you intend to cancel, which in his view justifies HashFast not accepting CC's. Although Ironically he's ripping off my line about how not accepting CC's and not having a refund policy means you're cutting off your balls and handing it to the chipmakers:

It's obviously not fraud to cancel an order - although it's kind of a dick move.

However OBVIOUSLY we should want the best deal and the lowest risk for the customers, since we are the customers - this applies to HF and all the other ASIC makers. I don't know why anyone would think it would be a good idea to chop off our balls and hand them to them on a silver platter.

I guess I should be flattered, since I guess it makes me "influential" - he also referenced something I said in his first post

I think the Miner protection plan makes Hashfast a slightly better deal.  It ameliorates a lot of the risk caused by the possibility of HashFast being a few weeks late. I think KnC should match it.

actually not quite.  

yes, i was using your line (for a second time ) purposely but thought you meant something different.

what i am saying is that according to Bitcoinorama, even if some great new company appears that unquestionably has a superior technology that is likely to enable them to take over the market, as long as KNC hasn't done anything illegal to deceive, misportray, or misrepresent their product, you are ethically and legally bound to stay with them.  you have entered a legal contract binding you to them. you are not allowed to cx your orders b/c of market events. you are expected to suck it up and lose money.

i don't agree that it's illegal hence the "cut off your balls" comment.  

Well it's in black and white, I posted the legality on the issue. I'm tired of going through it, but if you want to PM me over it go ahead, anything but dragging it through someone else's thread. I don't believe you consciously realised the legality of the issue, although you have admitted you understood it to be morally inexcusable.

I agree minor protection is something other companies should consider, but perhaps KnC may lead with enough time for ROI, in dollars at least, as they are priced not to be a concern within a reasonable timeframe. Will have to wait and see.

I disagree about payment choice and accountability, this is the precise point in time that you demand the security in payments you wish a company to provide. I don't doubt Hashfast are real, and have a chip in mind, what I'm concerned about, and have constantly raised issue with irrespective of the company, and including KnC, is treating customers funds like a casino. There's absolutely no reason for it to be that way, we shouldn't be expected to 'hand our balls over' when it's completely unnecessary so a company can gamble on whether they can bring a product to market. It's a choice w.r.t. accountability and recourse. Say there's a catastrophic failure, or delay beyond a reasonable timeframe, and they have to refund as promised in January, only monies have been spent, where's the cash coming for the refund if no third party is willing to accept liability? It's not, no matter how pretty the ribbons.

Unquestionable superior technology? It's the same 28nm kid, and if it's late, it's late, only realistically it's now recently been reworded as only an 'anticipated' date with no refund until which point in time refunds are untenable. That's not me kissing one co's ass over another, that's taking a step back and observing the situation from a logical standpoint.

[cypherdoc]

He's referring to the argument you guys were having in his 'endorsement' thread about whether or not it's "fraudulent" to place a CC order you intend to cancel, which in his view justifies HashFast not accepting CC's. Although Ironically he's ripping off my line about how not accepting CC's and not having a refund policy means you're cutting off your balls and handing it to the chipmakers:

It's obviously not fraud to cancel an order - although it's kind of a dick move.

However OBVIOUSLY we should want the best deal and the lowest risk for the customers, since we are the customers - this applies to HF and all the other ASIC makers. I don't know why anyone would think it would be a good idea to chop off our balls and hand them to them on a silver platter.

I guess I should be flattered, since I guess it makes me "influential" - he also referenced something I said in his first post

I think the Miner protection plan makes Hashfast a slightly better deal.  It ameliorates a lot of the risk caused by the possibility of HashFast being a few weeks late. I think KnC should match it.

actually not quite.  

yes, i was using your line (for a second time ) purposely but thought you meant something different.

what i am saying is that according to Bitcoinorama, even if some great new company appears that unquestionably has a superior technology that is likely to enable them to take over the market, as long as KNC hasn't done anything illegal to deceive, misportray, or misrepresent their product, you are ethically and legally bound to stay with them.  you have entered a legal contract binding you to them. you are not allowed to cx your orders b/c of market events. you are expected to suck it up and lose money.

i don't agree that it's illegal hence the "cut off your balls" comment.  

Well it's in black and white, I posted the legality on the issue. I'm tired of going through it, but if you want to PM me over it go ahead, anything but dragging it through someone else's thread. I don't believe you consciously realised the legality of the issue, although you have admitted you understood it to be morally inexcusable.

I agree minor protection is something other companies should consider, but perhaps KnC may lead with enough time for ROI, in dollars at least, as they are priced not to be a concern within a reasonable timeframe. Will have to wait and see.

I disagree about payment choice and accountability, this is the precise point in time that you demand the security in payments you wish a company to provide. I don't doubt Hashfast are real, and have a chip in mind, what I'm concerned about, and have constantly raised issue with irrespective of the company, and including KnC is treating customers funds like a casino. There's absolutely no reason for it to be that way, we shouldn't be expected to 'hand our balls over' when it's completely unnecessary. It's a choice w.r.t. accountability and recourse. Say there's a catastrophic failure, or delay beyond a reasonable timeframe, and they have to refund as promised in January, only monies have been spent, where's the cash coming for the refund if no third party is willing to accept liability? It's not, no matter how pretty the ribbons.

Unquestionable superior technology? It's the same 28nm kid, and if it's late, it's late, only realistically it's now recently been reworded as only an 'anticipated' date with no refund until which point in time refunds are untenable. That's not me kissing one co's ass over another, that's taking a step back and observing the situation from a logical standpoint.

that's the thing.

b/c HF is going to be getting 400gh/s out of 1 chip vs. KNC needing 4 chips, right there, HF is going to have a significant production cost advantage.  so even if KNC does offer a MPP, the cost advantage will eventually grind them down.

in addition, it appears there is even further efficiency advantages that HF suspects b/c of the package size coming out of KNC.  don't ask me to go into details b/c i don't fully understand it but am digging for more info as we speak.

[joshv06]

Well staying back on topic, I just made an order for 12 Baby Jets with next day air. I hope to get them on time. I also have two ASIC SC Single pre-orders from 13 months ago from BFL. I hope to get them in 2 more weeks ™

[cypherdoc]

Well staying back on topic, I just made an order for 12 Baby Jets with next day air. I hope to get them on time. I also have two ASIC SC Single pre-orders from 13 months ago from BFL. I hope to get them in 2 more weeks ™

you've made the right choice.

[eve]

Well staying back on topic, I just made an order for 12 Baby Jets with next day air. I hope to get them on time. I also have two ASIC SC Single pre-orders from 13 months ago from BFL. I hope to get them in 2 more weeks ™

Could end up like BFL 13 months later

[JohnyBigs]

blow me, BTC only payments haha, maybe if it had paypal I would take a risk free gamble.

[cypherdoc]

Well staying back on topic, I just made an order for 12 Baby Jets with next day air. I hope to get them on time. I also have two ASIC SC Single pre-orders from 13 months ago from BFL. I hope to get them in 2 more weeks ™

Could end up like BFL 13 months later

no way.

[bbxx]

Well staying back on topic, I just made an order for 12 Baby Jets with next day air. I hope to get them on time. I also have two ASIC SC Single pre-orders from 13 months ago from BFL. I hope to get them in 2 more weeks ™

Nice gamble man.
Have fun with them in december mining few bitcoins a day.

[eve]

Well staying back on topic, I just made an order for 12 Baby Jets with next day air. I hope to get them on time. I also have two ASIC SC Single pre-orders from 13 months ago from BFL. I hope to get them in 2 more weeks ™

Could end up like BFL 13 months later

no way.

mark my words could even be longer than 13 months or disappear totally into thin air

[gateway]

blow me, BTC only payments haha, maybe if it had paypal I would take a risk free gamble.

You guys do realize that PayPal will hold/cancel your account for anythng btc related that they catch wind of it?

[Bitcoinorama]

blow me, BTC only payments haha, maybe if it had paypal I would take a risk free gamble.

You guys do realize that PayPal will hold/cancel your account for anythng btc related that they catch wind of it?

Pahahahahahahahahaa