From KNCminer April 8 Neptune Update, regarding the "Hash while you wait" or "plan B": The first customers (batch 1) are expected to be hashing in our data center in early June and the last customer will hash in our data center around the last week of June. Early June is definitely now, the data center has been ready and has been eating up our potential profits for a while now. There is really no reason why this plan doesn't come into play right now. This was obviously a gesture to prevent us from requesting a refund, and in my case, it worked. I am so sick of being lied to and treated like shit, so please KNC, reward your customers who actually stuck with you! As stated before, anything they say is %100 on a marketing/sales level and you have to think that way also. Not just blatantly believe them. Stated by who? If you can't get factual information from the company producing the product with respect to delivery dates, who can you get it from? You?! Me?! I don't think so. Do you have a magical crystal ball that allows one to guess at the percentage accuracy of a companies claims? Given KNC's earlier reputation, I would say they deserved credibility. Now I would say otherwise, but isn't it really too late for those who are waiting a refund given that the money might have been better spent elsewhere? |
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All I have to say is LOL to those who ridiculed the man and to those that had no faith and sold out days too early!
Well it's odd that we didn't get any real communication until the "ridicule" began. The squeaky wheel gets the grease - apparently we are lubed up. To the moon!! PS - Thanks for the info FC |
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because of that
the first customers (batch 1) are expected to be hashing in our data center in early June and the last customer will hash in our data center around the last week of June. All the customers will be able to hash in that data center for as long as we are late in shipping your Neptune product, this service will be provided on a best effort basis
did they not say Q1/Q2 which means they have until JUNE 30th to deliver before hashing (or did i miss the memo..no horse in this race just wondering?) Searing Why does everyone ignore the facts of this matter? Long before they said Q1/Q2 delivery, they said this: "We will ship no devices in December 2013, January 2014 or February 2014. Meaning that once we have taken the difficulty up at the end of November we will not release any more hashing power for 3 months. We will then release our new generation of devices, which will begin shipping in March 2014. These devices will also have a much higher GH/$ rating than any of our current offerings." Everyone is well aware of the fact that Q1/Q2 finishes up on or about June 30th - that has never been disputed. If you take the central point of Q1/Q2 it would fall somewhere around march. They planted the idea of march long before they set the pricing and then confirmed that idea by using the term Q1/Q2. Margins are very tight in this game and I personally don't believe that anyone who paid 12,995 USD for a Neptune expected a delivery in early July. I did the math and figured late march was coincidentally the defining moment for break even (based solely on a Bitcoin in/Bitcoin out basis). When that date sailed by, I requested a refund. So, did you miss that memo? |
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Ah but its nothing to do with shipped, its specifically "sold". Do we really know what they sold, we don't know what was sold to big cloud farms or private farms etc, whats not disclosed, hell even the full number of publicly sold miners isn't really known. So your rough, back of a napkin guestimate could be a way far of the mark, no-one really knows. 8 PH + 10.8PH of known sales is what, near 20PH or nearer 30PH if you take into account the 6TH Neptune is. So 20% of the "known" hash rate And their mining hasnt really affected much in the way of the value or difficulty of bitcoin if you look at the data, difficulty is slowing down long term, and the price is going up again. You got a slightly slower, miner than the vast majority of people sure, it soured your experience, its understandable you would be bitter, but you gotta get off the hobby horse man it'll chew you up inside. All this venom and bile over something that doesn't really affect you. I know, I know, you want to be the one to say "I took down KnC" "Without me you would all be worse off" The only thing KnC has done wrong so far is screwed up the Frankenjupe packing and shipping, which was a disaster. (Mind you their packaging prowess has always been borderline rubbish) and they are just too late to the game with Neptune. At least they are paying out (albeit slowly) refunds. And people are then free to get whatever they want with their spondoolies (joke)  But to paint them as "OMG@!@!!! 100% liars and guilty of massive fraud, and scammers, mommy!" is just bull. IMHO There is nothing "humble" about your reply but it does smack of ignorance and arrogance. Bitcoin difficulty is not slowing down and KNC has missed 100% of it's delivery dates so far and it doesn't look as though they plan to make the Neptune delivery stick the landing either. Don't fool yourself - they've done a lot of things wrong. |
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Let me start first by saying that recently I haven't been a big fan of KNC either, but seeing the ASIC manufacturers landscape around me I feel extremely lucky to have dealt with them and not Hashfast, Cointerra, BFL, etc. If I have chosen any other path/manufacturer I would have most certainly regretted the investment, but with KNC everything turned out very good, not perfect but very good so far.
Yes, they are greedy and wants to mine as many coins as they can for themselves, but at least there are no bankruptcies and lawsuits involved for the majority of their customers.
They could have been total assholes and held onto these refunds much longer that they did and so give back much less coins with the exchange rate going up again.
I guess what I am trying to say is that the ASIC hardware business is like a mine field with many more bad companies, than good ones and a lot of people in this thread were lucky not to land on the bad manufacturers. At least all of my investments turned very profitable so far.
Don't be mistaken! Bonitas non est pessimis esse meliorem. To be better than the worst is not goodness. I believe we have yet to see a "good" hardware company. |
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Chips will be sold with a loss and profit will be made in other companies ?
ELI5 current situation : FC purchased materials for 5$ , made 10chips, sell them for 20$, then he purchased materials for 20$ and made 40chips, sell them for 80$, then he purchase material for 80$ and sell it for 320$, but again, he'll purchase material for 320$ ... and cycle continues. He's providing R&D of mining chips for whole Chinese market from own resources and then hes unloading tons of underpriced chips to his friends, or his other umbrella companies. Sadly for us is that real profit is creating elsewhere, not in AM anymore, AM is tunneled. AM is just used donkey. It seems like this until we get answers to new round of shareholders questions. And we need answers asap. So if someone wants to add questions to the list provided before, please do. Friendlypumpkin will forward them in 1-2days. Yuk, well played by the cat. Friedcat for President! (of Somalia) |
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Now if I were to simply post a +1 to this, my post would be deleted... how can a picture be worth a thousand words whereas a +1 be worthy of a deletion. Aren't the both representative of the same idea? Oops, I mean Asicminer - yay! Entering the future blah blah blah <--- it's okay, I'm topical now. |
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so he just paid all income from batch 1 for producing batch 2, and all income from batch 2 will be used for producing batch 3 etc?
Yes, that is how I am guessing it will happen. If we guess batch 2 is 20PH being sold at $0.5/gh that would earn ~$10,000,000 which would be enough to purchase 50PH worth of wafers which could then be sold for $25,000,000.
Basically turning $4 million in to $25 million.
*Numbers are extremely approximate but I think it shows why reinvestment is a good idea.
I think the question is, have we entered in an infinite loop of reinvestments, or someday those gains will be paid as dividends? What happened to those aggressive dividends? It wouldn't really be an infinite loop of reinvestments in my made up scenario since the reinvestment amount would be doubling per batch. about that infinite loop of reinvestments, how can you explain this (one month ago) : The dividend schedule will be aggressive, as AM will not require large sums of retained capital. The rationale is that AM doesn't need to invest large sums into infrastructure and that the majority of chip production costs will be covered by the business partners on a contract schedule. The new round of dividends are scheduled to begin as soon as the first large purchases have concluded and should precede or coincide with the publication of the updated financial statements.
Let's just write another round of questions. FC said, that he will glad answer them. I don't profess this to be an explanation but the simplest answer would be: There were no business partners who wished to cover the production costs or contract the chip production. |
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On one hand, I am personally a bit frustrated and anxious like everyone else for FC's delays.
On the other hand, I am extremely pissed at all the crybabies out there asking for dividends, and accusing of Friedcat of being a scammer.
Do you know how infrequent it is in the real world to be getting any dividends from growth companies?
Even mature large cap companies decide to give a shit in dividends, even if their profits are monstrous, such as Google who keeps more than 30 billion in cash and doesn't pay a single cent. Apple is another example, ebay, amazon, or Berkshire fucking Hathaway
So why on earth would one buy stocks in such companies?
Because we are betting on their increase in value, the money that is not distributed to us is reinvested in the company to make it grow.
You dimwits. I am fucking tired of coming back to the forum to see a horde of idiots crying for dividends.
Dividends are sweet, but it is not really a must.
I really hope, I just hope Friedcat announces that there will not be dividends anymore because he wants to reinvest it all in the company.
I will gladly pick up all your panicked dumps.
It was stated in the original shareholder agreement that an AM share represents 1/400,000 of the company and always will and is entitled to that share of the profits. Here you can read it: Introduction
ASICMINER is a virtual identity totally held by investors of the Bitfountain company. The Bitfountain company's business includes mining with self-built ASIC devices, as well as the sales of them. Currently ASICMINER shareholders holds 163,962 shares, while Bitfountain shareholders holds 236,038 shares. ASICMINER shares have the privilege of getting all net profits till 0.1BTC/share from the day when dividends began to be paid. They also have the exemption of dilution, which means that each ASICMINER share always equals to 1/400,000 of the total profits and voting power of the summed value from both ASICMINER and Bitfountain.
Since you are comparing other companies to Asicminer, where are the quarterly earnings sheets that the others are required by law to file? So it's not like those other companies right? Or is it? Either way, shareholders deserve more respect that what Friedcat and you would give them. I'm not trolling here, I'm just sick of the attitudes of so many that shareholders are not deserving of some respect. This industry has had more than it's fair share of scam artists - and it makes everyone just a tad leery! So when news and dividends are scarce it is only natural to ask a few pointed questions especially in this largely unregulated space. |
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Well lets just say I lost 32BTC from investing into this. I know its my fault so you guys don't have to blame me for taking this risk. It is a part of investing into things like this. It is just sad that it is becoming very common now in the btc forums.
I feel there should be some sort of verification with the admins or have a team here that verifies the authenticates of certain groups like this. I know it will not solve the issue but it would help provide legal documents in case something like this happens.
I myself invested well over 1 Million into multiple bitcoin companies trying to get up an running and majority of them keeps their word. It turns out the ones who have too much to handle just breaks down and decide to make a few sales and run off with it. This is all a risk that you have to take and its our faults for investing into it.
All we need is just a new system or community towards fixing things like this. I for one would pay a lot of money for people who are good with creating a team and site that can do a job like this to prevent people from doing what has been done here.
Why on earth do you assume you have lost everything? Its a PITA that FC is late posting, totally agree there, but it doesn't mean you have lost everything. A "community" can never prevent fraud anyway. If companies want to run away with people's cash, there are a thousand ways to do it. And by "company" I mean regulated or unregulated. A community can prevent fraud. However, the first step is to identify it and the discussion needs to take place in order for the perceived fraud to be validated or invalidated as the case may be. |
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It's actually quite entertaining seeing people here spazz out. It's so fun, in fact, that I hope dividends are not paid out for a long time still!
That's just silliness. |
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I thought the mining farm was simply hosting for customer ASICs? They said they would never mine with more than 5% of sales to customers! Wait I'll see if I can find a link to the quote... Here it is! https://www.kncminer.com/pages/faq <-- see question #2 Yeah, they didn't actually keep that promise. Wow! That was a big promise to break. I used that to determine whether it was a sound investment to purchase their miners. |
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their mining farm generates about $500,000 usd a day. They won't be going bankrupt anytime soon. They're just greedy bastards which is why they delay the refunds.
Sam Cole told Forbes they are making 8,000,000 SEK a day that's $1,203,552.00 USD currently. The only article I remember was one on a Swedish website that reported knc were mining three million kronor a day, which I calculated at the time was 3,000,000.00 SEK = 458,525.01 USD https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg6057284#msg6057284They are still mining $1million+ each week, so I also find it hard to see them going bankrupt any time soon. That is terrible. So they have driven the difficulty up using our per-order money to fund the operation and neutered our pre-ordered miners in the process while at the same time suppressing Bitcoin price by dumping them on the market as they are produced. Did Sam not say they had a "Customer first" policy?! Huh! Platinum member of the Bitcoin foundation to boot... |
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I forgot to mention, but I got my BTC refund for 3 Neptunes on the 20th May, just hours before the price started to rise. KNC couldn't have chosen a better time. Original purchase price for 3 was around 30400USD and I got 66.5BTC back at 457USD exchange rate. With the current exchange rate that is almost $8000 ahead. I am so glad I requested a refund I guess the only way you can "profit" off of a refund in BTC is if you paid less for the bitcoin at the time of purchase, right? Or had it sitting in a wallet mined it for free, then anything over the price they charged would be %100 profit. Shit, not a bad deal. A blessing in disguise. Now, everyone with that profit go BUY some bitcoin! Well, 2 of the Neptunes were paid in cash with USD transfer and the 3rd one was paid in BTC (10.3BTC) mined with Jupiters when the price was near 1000USD. So from my point of view I invested ~$20300 + 10.33BTC AND got back 66.5BTC. I consider that a good investment overall. Sounds like the refunds are going to bankrupt KNC! their mining farm generates about $500,000 usd a day. They won't be going bankrupt anytime soon. They're just greedy bastards which is why they delay the refunds. I thought the mining farm was simply hosting for customer ASICs? They said they would never mine with more than 5% of sales to customers! Wait I'll see if I can find a link to the quote... Here it is! https://www.kncminer.com/pages/faq <-- see question #2 |
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Holy crap, we crossed 1000 pages.
I predict that we'll soon see a drop back down to around 300 pages, then a slow but steady recovery. Possibly Mr. Karpeles someone will craft software to store this thread securely offline and then forget how to retrieve it at which point it will drop into negative numbers of messages and emit a huge sucking sound while at the same emitting faint cries of "foul". |
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As a former active mining investor you guys have no idea how good you have it.
Bonitas non est pessimis esse meliorum. Your "not-as-bad-as" argument is seriously flawed. |
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Also, A/C's have an efficiency of ~30% which means it would take a 4000 watt unit to remove the heat from your 1260 watts worth of gridseed blades. Um AC have an "efficiency" of 300% to 500%+. They are heat pumps. 1W of electricity is sufficient to move 3 to 5W of heat. I feel like such an idiot!  Would you believe I am working night shifts right now? |
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I forgot to mention, but I got my BTC refund for 3 Neptunes on the 20th May, just hours before the price started to rise. KNC couldn't have chosen a better time. Original purchase price for 3 was around 30400USD and I got 66.5BTC back at 457USD exchange rate. With the current exchange rate that is almost $8000 ahead. I am so glad I requested a refund I guess the only way you can "profit" off of a refund in BTC is if you paid less for the bitcoin at the time of purchase, right? Or had it sitting in a wallet mined it for free, then anything over the price they charged would be %100 profit. Shit, not a bad deal. A blessing in disguise. Now, everyone with that profit go BUY some bitcoin! Well, 2 of the Neptunes were paid in cash with USD transfer and the 3rd one was paid in BTC (10.3BTC) mined with Jupiters when the price was near 1000USD. So from my point of view I invested ~$20300 + 10.33BTC AND got back 66.5BTC. I consider that a good investment overall. Sounds like the refunds are going to bankrupt KNC! |
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Wow, that is "impressive." I'm down to running 2 boards and 14 sitting around mostly because of the heat. I have 9 Gridseed blades that use about 1260 watts, and the heat seems to come from the PSUs more than the actual ASIC boards. Then I discovered the biggest heat emitter is the new monitor I got. I've resigned myself to the BTC I've mined so far, my last attempt to rent space to put the boxes seems to have fallen through and I've watched the auctions on eBay and most KnC auctions (except the upgrade boards) go with 0 bids, even the lower priced ones. Maybe my 3 year old A/C should be replaced and it would cool better.
A couple of tips - if there is more heat coming from your PSU than what is connected, then it is very, very inefficient - less than 50% and you need to get rid of those. Also, A/C's have an efficiency of ~30% which means it would take a 4000 watt unit to remove the heat from your 1260 watts worth of gridseed blades Invert that If you can put everything in one room, isolate it from the house and use an exhaust fan, it would be much more economical than using A/C and shutting down your units. http://www.rotron.com/techcorner/cooling-flow.aspx <-- airflow calcualtions |
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