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901  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 04, 2013, 04:29:01 AM
What price per share will it be transferred at?

It is 1 share of AMC for 1 share of VMC. So the price would be whatever price you purchased your AMC shares

So would the VMC shares be valued at the market price of AMC at the time of transfer?

The market will determine the price of the shares.  However since there are only 25M shares instead of 100M you will be getting 4X  more of the company.  Also now you own a manufaturer and a mining company.
902  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 04, 2013, 04:10:22 AM
What price per share will it be transferred at?

It is 1 share of AMC for 1 share of VMC. So the price would be whatever price you purchased your AMC shares
903  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 04, 2013, 12:20:50 AM
[VMC/AMC] Merger

This is a Pre-Merger VMC Offering.

(This Is For Community Review Only)

The Final Offering May Be DIFFERENT

(This Document Is For Community Review Only And May Contain Errors)

========================================================================================================

Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC) will be incorporated as a Belize International Business Company
and will be exchanged for 15 million shares to purchase Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC) a Delaware Corporation.

VMC is made up of a team of dedicated Bitcoin mining professionals with over 30 years of combined
experience in the ISP Business including Internet Access and Web Hosting, Graphics Design,
Cloud Development, Computer Programming in Multiple Languages, FPGA Hardware And Software Design,
Complete Systems Design, Web Design, and System Administration.
  
The team has been involved with Bitcoins since 2009.  VMC will be manfacturing Bitcoin Mining Machines.
VMC has agreed with  Active Mining Corporation (AMC) is a Belize International Business Company
DBA Active Mining Cooperative to sell the first 100 machines manufactured in the machines listed below
to AMC.  AMC will have the first right of refusal on the below units developed by VMC and any future
developed units.  Investors in VMC will have the second right of refusal on units manufactured by VMC.

VMC will manufacture Application Specific Integrated Circuit (ASIC) Bitcoin mining machines
and is working with AMC to develope an ASIC chip and PCB that it will license from AMC for use in their
Fast-Hash series of Bitcoin Mining Machines.  VMC is using AMC's technology to develope an ASIC chips on
28nm process which is estimited to run at 16 GH/s with it's partner eASIC (www.easic.com).  VMC's ASIC
has very fast speeds of 16 to 20 GH/s with low power usage.  The 28nm chip is expected to run faster after
it is put through the eASIC's easicopy process and will be used in VMC's Fast-Hash-One series of machines.
VMC may purchase ASIC chips from different vendors if available to use in it's manufactured machines.

VMC will be using the most innovative technology available to manufacture their Fast-Hash(tm) series of
Bitcoin Mining Machines.  Investors in VMC will receive the benefits of having dividends paid out as
soon as VMC starts shipping machines to the public and making a profit.  Investors in VMC will see
big benefits when VMC using AMC's technology develops it's own ASIC chip and AMC licenses its technology
to VMC to use in its Fast-Hash series of Bitcoin mining machines.  VMC will pay license fees in the form
of Bitcoin mining machines at cost and royalties to AMC for it's technology.

VMC is in the process of getting an agreement with eASIC to produce an ASIC bitcoin mining chips on the
28nm process.  This chip will be available in limited Low Volume/Sample quanities in the 4th quarter of
2013 and full production quanities in the 1st quarter of 2014.

VMC will provide the Bitcoin Mining Equipment below ("Mining Equipment") to AMC at VMC's manufacturing
cost for the use of AMC's developed technology for the equipment below as a licensed fee for
VMC to use all of AMC's developed technology.  VMC will also pay AMC a 10% royalty on all other sales
using AMC's developed technology.

Web Site:    www.virtualminingcorp.com
Facebook:   https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fast-Hash/319110168218206
Twitter:    @VirtualMiningCo
Phone:      1+(855) ONE-BITCOIN (663-2482)
  
*** Business Experience:

Slaughter Vending and Amusement, Pegasus Business Systems, Advanced Learning Systems, Advanced Software
Solutions, Active Internet Communications - ISP Business axs(tm).net which produced over 2.5 Million
in revenue and over 10,000 customers in 49 states, Canada, and Puerto Rico with over 10 employees.
Turn-key Web Hosting Business running on Amazon.com, Started Bitcoin mining in 2009.
 
*** Software packages developed:

Internet Cruiser(tm) web browser, Virtual 3D Environments, Individual Profile System(tm) (IPS), Neural
Network, Anonymous Bitcoin Exchange software, Automobile Collision Repair System(tm) (ACRS)

*** Cloud Development:

Web Hosting Business: shopping-cart-now.com running on Amazon.com
 
*** Web Sites Developed With Graphics:

TahoeUltimateRentals.com, shopping-cart-now.com, votecliffyoung.com, and votecliffyoung.com plus many
more over the years.

*** ASIC Development:

AMC has Synthesized it's Bitcoin Mining source code to create RTL for the xc6xlt150 FPGA.  VMC has had
the code ported to eASIC Nextreme-2 family of ASIC chips.  eASIC will then close timing on the design
for the ASIC chip.  After timing closure, Prototype and Low Volume production of the ASIC chips will begin.
High volume production of the chip will begin in 3-6 months after the project starts.

After production begins, the ASIC chips can be delivered to VMC in a 3 to 6 month time frame.  VMC will-at
the same time-start the high production process for 28nm chip using eASIC's easicopy process which takes
as little as 12 months.  VMC has also received licenses on Printed Circuit Board (PCB) designs for
xc6xlt150 FPGA Boards.  VMC has hired an Electronic Engineering and Manufacturing Services to design
the PCB boards for its Fast_Hash series of bitcoin mining machines.  VMC may purchase Bitcoin Mining Chips
or PCB from other vendors if available for its machines.  

=============================================================================================================

VMC Manufactures ASIC Bitcoin mining equipment which it provides to AMC and the public.

Bitcoin ASIC Mining Equipment To Be Purchased:      

Units to be provided to AMC by VMC at manufacturers cost:

The following will be ordered from VMC if funds are available from AMC and the units are developed.
AMC will have the first right of refusal on the below units developed by VMC and any future
developed units.  Additional units will be provided at lowest retail value minus the 10%
royalty fee.    Investors in VMC on bitfunder.com will have the second right of refusal on units
manufactured by VMC.

100 Fast-Hash-80's**   @  80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
                        Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
                        Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
                        (Estimated to be delivered August 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-80's**   @  80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
                        Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
                        Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
                        (Estimated to be delivered October 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-80's**   @  80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
                        Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
                        Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
                        (Estimated to be delivered December 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-80's**   @  80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
                        Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
                        Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
                        (Estimated to be delivered February 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-400's**   @  400 GH/s each for a total of: 40 TH/s
                        Specifications: 45nm 6 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 1 board per unit
                        Estimated retail value @ ~$30,000 each for a total of $3,000,000
                        (Estimated to be delivered March 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-800's**   @ 800 GH/s each for a total of: 80 TH/s
                        Specifications: 45nm 6 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 2 boards per unit
                        Estimated retail value @ ~$60,000 each for a total of $6,000,000
                        (Estimated to be delivered May 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-1.2T's**   @  1.2 TH/s each for a total of: 120 TH/s
                        Specifications: 28nm 9 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 1 board per unit  
                        Estimated retail value @ ~$100,000 each for a total of $10,000,000
                        (Estimated to be delivered July 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-2.4T's**   @  2.4 TH/s each for a total of: 240 TH/s
                        Specifications: 28nm 9 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 2 board per unit  
                        Estimated retail value @ ~$200,000 each for a total of $20,000,000
                        (Estimated to be delivered September 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-4.8T's**   @  4.8 TH/s each for a total of: 480 TH/s
                        Specifications: 28nm 9 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 board per unit  
                        Estimated retail value @ ~$400,000 each for a total of $40,000,000
                        (Estimated to be delivered December 2014)



VMC has a contract with AMC to repay to AMC 100% of the Non Recuring Engeering (NRE) fee that
AMC provides to VMC to develope an ASIC for bitcoin mining.  VMC will pay to AMC 100% of the profits
from bulk chips sales after AMC's royalty payment, cost of goods sold, and all direct expenses required
to sale the chips.  

We will also be buying shares of AMC on any stock exchange as they become reasonably priced to
provide dividend income to VMC share holders.  These shares will be sold if VMC needs capital to
for any purpose.

VMC currently own 0 shares of AMC as of the Initial Public Offering date.  Check the reports
in the bitcointalk VMC thread for the current number of AMC shares owned.

* Different quantities or other Bitcoin Mining Machines may be provided if the above are not
available, developed, specification changes, or the market changes.  All specifications and delivery
dates are subject to change.

** Fast-Hash-XXX, Fast-Hash-One are trademarks of VMC developed Bitcoin Mining Machines.  AMC will receive the
above machines at manufacturers cost.  AMC will also receive a 10% royalty from VMC on all other
VMC sales using AMC's technologies.

=============================================================================================================
=============================================================================================================

VMC Offering:

VMC's offering is comprised of 25,000,000 shares in total. VMC may issue these shares on any exchange it
deems fit for trading of VMC's shares as long as the total shares issued does not exceed 25,000,000
shares.  This offering may me modified with a majorty vote of the shares holders.

VMC will provide a method for shareholders to vote.  The method will provide that only shareholders can vote
and shareholders will only have 1 vote for each share that is held.  Any motion to bring a vote before the
shareholders will require 10% of the shareholders votes on a petition with 1 vote for each share held.
VMC will provide a method for motions should the need arise, if the exchange does not provide a method.
VMC will be run by a 7 member board of directors, the board of directors will be elected within three months
of the initial IPO of VMC.  The board of directors shall adopt a set of by-laws within the first 6 months.
Until the first board of directors are elected, the current management of VMC, Delaware will manage VMC Belize.  

1 share of VMC on the exchange represents 1/25,000,000th of 100% of the monthly profits after all expenses.

VMC shares offer no voting rights. Shares of VMC on the exchange do not represent real world shares of the
company.  The shares are solely a distribution mechanism for rights to profits.

As of the time of this writing, up to 10,000,000 shares will be released to the public through a swap of
1 share of Active Mining Corporation dba Active Mining Cooperative (AMC) for 1 share of VMC.  AMC is traded on
bitfunder.com.  Any remaining shares not included in the IPO are owned/maintained/controlled by VMC.
These shares will be used at the issuers discretion for any uses deemed fit. These uses are not limited to,
but may include employment.

The funds from the IPO will be used to manufacture VMC's products, research and development,
deposits, chip production and development, PCB production and development, licensing fees, eASIC NRE to
create a 28nm bitcoin mining chip, and other necessary needs for manufacturing VMC's products.  
The IPO funds may also be used to purchase AMC shares.  VMC will also exchange its shares for AMC
shares, the rate of exchange will be determined by the board of directors of VMC.

Should VMC be sold or closed, the full amount of the purchase price, liquidated income,
liquidated assets will be evenly distributed to the 25,000,000 shares.

AMC Swap Shares:

VMC will issue up to 10,000,000 "AMC Swap" shares which may be used in an exchange for AMC shares.
Any shares not exchange for AMC shares may be sold by VMC.  VMC will set the deadline date that
AMC shares have to be tendered to VMC for a swap to be effective.  Shares of AMC tendered after
the deadline will not be swapped for VMC shares and will be returned.


Additional shares may be sold at no less than .005 BTC each.

Statements and Accounting:

Detailed statement and accounting will be provided on VMC's Bitcointalk thread if avilable or any other
forum which VMC's chooses.  Forum will be posted on VMC's website at www.virtualminingcorp.com

Dividends:

Dividends will be paid on all issued shares.  Dividends will be declared by the board of directors.
Dividends will be paid each week as declared by the board of directors.  
Reports will be posted on VMC's Thread on a forum of VMC's choosing.

Forced Buy Back:

No forced buyback may be enforced for shares of VMC.  VMC may purchase it's own shares on any
exchange where VMC shares are traded.

Equipment:

All equipment listed in this offer will be sold to AMC at the average manufacturing cost for
the unit or a like unit.

After VMC's initial delivery of the above mining equipment, AMC will have first right
of refusal on any equipment manufactured by VMC and said equipment will be paid for by AMC.  
VMC will not charge AMC a price which is higher than the lowest price VMC has sold the
equipment or like equipment to any other customer or if the equipment has not been sold
before, then the posted price on VMC's web site.

Estimated VMC 12 Months Projections:

==========================================================================================================
**********************************************************************************************************

Total Estimated Gross Sales                                                                                                                                  479,000 BTC

Total Estimated Cost Of Goods Sold BTC                                                                                                                201,000 BTC

Total Estimated Expenses BTC                                                                                                                               113,000 BTC

Total Estimated Profit BTC                                                                                                                                     165,000 BTC

Estmated AMC Revenue (Next 12 Months)                                                                                                              112,000 BTC

Total Combined Profit And Revenue                                                                                                                       277,000 BTC                  

**********************************************************************************************************

25,000,000 Issued Shares
Estimated Gross Combined Profit and Revenue / Share                                                                                           0.01108 BTC

**********************************************************************************************************

Return on Investment(ROI) Fully Diluted: 25,000,000 Issued Shares

  Net Estimated ROI/12 Months AMC Swap shares @ .0025 BTC/Share                                                                             443 %

**********************************************************************************************************
==========================================================================================================
VMC130307-1

Update:

Investors must have 100,000 shares before getting a second right of refusal.
904  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 03, 2013, 11:32:39 PM
AMC Dividends Have Been Paid 0.00000139/share
905  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 03, 2013, 10:58:28 PM
Update On Our 68 Klondike Boards.

Just paid for our assembly of our 68 Klondike boards.

These all together are ~306,000 MH/s or about equal to 5 of the Avalon machines we have now.

This would bring our total hashing power up to 700,000+ MH/s

It looks like we could get these within the next 3-4 weeks.

Great news and I just keep on buying - I have faith here!

From the contract on BTCT

Quote
AMC has 3 Avalon 65 GH/s units hashing.

The Following Equipment Is On Order:

3 Avalon 65 GH/s units on order from Avalon. (Shippment Is Imminent) ~385,000 GH/s

68 Klondike - 16 chip ASIC Open Source Boards ~308,000 GH/s

20,000 Avalon chips @ 282 MH/s each for a total of ~5,640,000 MH/s or 5,640 GH/s or 5.640 TH/s

Total Hashing Power Hashing And On Order ~5.651 TH/s

Now call me crazy, here and you may actually be quite spot on, but does that say 385,000 GH/s and 68  Klondikes at 308,000 GH/s?  If my math is correct, which it rarely ever is, adding up the 000s, carrying the 1s, yep we have a typo here!   Tongue

308,000 MH/s
385,000 MH/s

Yes, these are typos, Street. Peeps following along since the beginning are aware of it.

It does have the ~ = Approximate.
906  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 03, 2013, 09:40:17 PM
I will be adding 500,000 shares to each of the walls at Bitfunder and BTC-TC.

This is due to the drop in the price of Bitcoins.  For AMC coming merger
with VMC, more details later today.
907  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 03, 2013, 07:35:18 PM
Update On Our 68 Klondike Boards.

Just paid for our assembly of our 68 Klondike boards.

These all together are ~306,000 MH/s or about equal to 5 of the Avalon machines we have now.

This would bring our total hashing power up to 700,000+ MH/s

It looks like we could get these within the next 3-4 weeks.
908  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 03, 2013, 03:28:32 PM
so in summary, if eAsic is successful with the fast hash, then you guys plan to sell and mine with them much like ASICMiner does

in the mean time AMC will be..... mining and issuing dividends with lesser hardware?

Yes
909  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 03, 2013, 03:26:16 PM
Ken, I know this is probably small fish...

However; I still have my credit for 16 chips at BFL, would you like these gratis to put into AMC/VMC?

Yes, we have decided to use BFL chips in our Fast-Hash-XXX series of machines.  So yes, thank you very much.
910  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 03, 2013, 01:00:55 AM
If you guys can visit this when the road trip happens, that'd be awesome, with proof, pics etc if possible (like what reddit does for the AMAs).

Sorry, but the security is very high.  It is going to take about 10 days for us to get all of paperwork, badges, and Ids, so that
we can move the equipment there.
911  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 03, 2013, 12:04:51 AM
Here is the link to Springnet, the data-center inside Springfield Underground.

http://www.springnetunderground.net/assets/main.html
912  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 02, 2013, 10:48:29 PM
I'm winging it here, so dismiss this idea if you think it is a stupid. Does BitFunder allow private sales of shares from one person (ie Ken) to another (aka 'the buyer')? You know about a Dutch Auction? Ken could ask 'who wants to buy x shares at y price' (example: 10k @ 0.005) then reduces the price in 0.0001 increments until someone bites? This technique would only be used to issue new shares into the market. Obviously once bought, they trade on the exchange as you'd expect. The main benefit is it removes the need for large walls, and allows Ken to test the market in a fair way, ie everyone sees the first high Ask and is welcome to grab the offer when the price is reduced to the level they find acceptable?

Like I say, this could be an insane suggestion, but remember the Facebook IPO? They couldn't even get that right with the 'smartest' brains in Wall Street, the price went all over the place on launch.

1. Bitfunder allows transfers between accounts, you could just sell them here.  

2. If VMC (gotta get used to that name) wants to do a Dutch auction on this site, shouldn't be a problem.

Yes, this is a good idea, I will keep it in mind.

When do you think you can share the terms and agreement for the new business model? Looking forward to see how much of what we talked about here is incorporated into that draft. I think we've covered alot of the major issues that were concerning shareholders and potential investors. I am looking forward to the new agreement. On a side note AMC's stock looks a lot better than where we were at a before you starting responding Ken. A little bit of communication goes a long day. Thanks for reaching out to all of us.

It will be as soon as I can get everything put together.  However, I am going to take a few days off for the 4th.  Going down to Branson for a few days.  It will still be a working vacation as there are few details we will have to wrap up on Friday concerning our Avalon clone prototypes.

Ken, maximise your downtime, don't feel obliged to work on VMC 24/7 when holidays are calling. We all appreciate what you have done so far, it is very impressive.

Thanks!  Grin Grin Grin
913  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 02, 2013, 10:31:44 PM
I'm winging it here, so dismiss this idea if you think it is a stupid. Does BitFunder allow private sales of shares from one person (ie Ken) to another (aka 'the buyer')? You know about a Dutch Auction? Ken could ask 'who wants to buy x shares at y price' (example: 10k @ 0.005) then reduces the price in 0.0001 increments until someone bites? This technique would only be used to issue new shares into the market. Obviously once bought, they trade on the exchange as you'd expect. The main benefit is it removes the need for large walls, and allows Ken to test the market in a fair way, ie everyone sees the first high Ask and is welcome to grab the offer when the price is reduced to the level they find acceptable?

Like I say, this could be an insane suggestion, but remember the Facebook IPO? They couldn't even get that right with the 'smartest' brains in Wall Street, the price went all over the place on launch.

1. Bitfunder allows transfers between accounts, you could just sell them here. 

2. If VMC (gotta get used to that name) wants to do a Dutch auction on this site, shouldn't be a problem.

Yes, this is a good idea, I will keep it in mind.

When do you think you can share the terms and agreement for the new business model? Looking forward to see how much of what we talked about here is incorporated into that draft. I think we've covered alot of the major issues that were concerning shareholders and potential investors. I am looking forward to the new agreement. On a side note AMC's stock looks a lot better than where we were at a before you starting responding Ken. A little bit of communication goes a long day. Thanks for reaching out to all of us.

It will be as soon as I can get everything put together.  However, I am going to take a few days off for the 4th.  Going down to Branson for a few days.  It will still be a working vacation as there are few details we will have to wrap up on Friday concerning our Avalon clone prototypes.
914  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 02, 2013, 08:45:33 PM
I'm winging it here, so dismiss this idea if you think it is a stupid. Does BitFunder allow private sales of shares from one person (ie Ken) to another (aka 'the buyer')? You know about a Dutch Auction? Ken could ask 'who wants to buy x shares at y price' (example: 10k @ 0.005) then reduces the price in 0.0001 increments until someone bites? This technique would only be used to issue new shares into the market. Obviously once bought, they trade on the exchange as you'd expect. The main benefit is it removes the need for large walls, and allows Ken to test the market in a fair way, ie everyone sees the first high Ask and is welcome to grab the offer when the price is reduced to the level they find acceptable?

Like I say, this could be an insane suggestion, but remember the Facebook IPO? They couldn't even get that right with the 'smartest' brains in Wall Street, the price went all over the place on launch.

1. Bitfunder allows transfers between accounts, you could just sell them here. 

2. If VMC (gotta get used to that name) wants to do a Dutch auction on this site, shouldn't be a problem.

Yes, this is a good idea, I will keep it in mind.
915  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 02, 2013, 07:22:34 PM
I wonder if there should be somewhere in the contract that states that VMC cannot issue new shares to the market at a certain percentage above current market value.  Many investors, myself included, were facepalming really hard when Ken dropped 2,000,000 shares out there at three times the value of what they were currently going for.  Thoughts?

Enacting a board will go a long way in stamping peculiarities out.
+1

It also spreads the load somewhat.

When we put out the 2M shares, the price was above our ask.
916  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 02, 2013, 04:34:26 PM
Once again lets look at ASICMINER's business model. BitFountain has a little over 50% shares and investors have about 50% of the shares. The management team controls those shares to operate and reinvest. AMC investors should have 50% of the shares and AMC's management team (VMC) should have the other half and they can do what they seem is fit for operations and growth. More reinvestment would be wanted as a shareholder. Maybe 30-35% which would leave 15-20% for managements expenses. What do you guys think? It sounds fair right?

BitFountain has 236,038 (59%), shareholders have 163,962 (41%). When they need to hold dividends for reinvesting, everyone gets a cut. Fair game.

Yes yes yes, this. I get that with the TAT.AM shares, each share is then 'diluted' into 100 shares and that the huge amount of shares for AMC is basically the same as that (thanks for pointing that out VBS), but I still think that up into the millions of shares makes it difficult to derive any value out of the company. I'm new at this though, and VBS seems to be putting forward some decent suggestions, but ASICminer has already shown a tried-and-tested model, why not emulate it?

+1

I agree. Let's try to keep the amount of shares issued at a lower number. Let's follow in the footsteps of the the market leader. If anything this will put us at #2 in the mining company race hopefully in the next few months.

Hear hear!  Ken, any thoughts?

It is not the number of shares, having a large number of shares does not diluted anything.  The only thing it does is make the pie have a lot more smaller pieces.  So, when our shares started trading at .0005 with 40,000,000 shares issued and you bought 1 BTC worth, then that would be 2,000 shares.  If we had started trading with 4,000,000 shares issued at .005 and you bought 1 BTC you would have got 200 shares, same difference.  The only difference is you have 2,000 pieces or you have 200 pieces, and the same percentage of ownership.


This is true and the percentage of ownership should stay the same without any dilution to that percentage. Therefore we should work towards capping out the amount of shares which would keep the pie at the same size. The percentages of ownership of the company and dividends will stay the same without having it being diluted. This is the main point. Hopefully we can work to make this agreement between you and the shareholders. If you can create new shares as you wish then this will lower the percentages of those who are holding shares. They will get the pieces of pie taken away from them if this happens.

We are going to try and keep that from happening, however shareholders will need to consider that they are getting a whole new business plus keeping AMC's business too when they swap their shares for VMC's shares.
917  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 02, 2013, 04:13:12 PM
Once again lets look at ASICMINER's business model. BitFountain has a little over 50% shares and investors have about 50% of the shares. The management team controls those shares to operate and reinvest. AMC investors should have 50% of the shares and AMC's management team (VMC) should have the other half and they can do what they seem is fit for operations and growth. More reinvestment would be wanted as a shareholder. Maybe 30-35% which would leave 15-20% for managements expenses. What do you guys think? It sounds fair right?

BitFountain has 236,038 (59%), shareholders have 163,962 (41%). When they need to hold dividends for reinvesting, everyone gets a cut. Fair game.

Yes yes yes, this. I get that with the TAT.AM shares, each share is then 'diluted' into 100 shares and that the huge amount of shares for AMC is basically the same as that (thanks for pointing that out VBS), but I still think that up into the millions of shares makes it difficult to derive any value out of the company. I'm new at this though, and VBS seems to be putting forward some decent suggestions, but ASICminer has already shown a tried-and-tested model, why not emulate it?

+1

I agree. Let's try to keep the amount of shares issued at a lower number. Let's follow in the footsteps of the the market leader. If anything this will put us at #2 in the mining company race hopefully in the next few months.

Hear hear!  Ken, any thoughts?

It is not the number of shares, having a large number of shares does not diluted anything.  The only thing it does is make the pie have a lot more smaller pieces.  So, when our shares started trading at .0005 with 40,000,000 shares issued and you bought 1 BTC worth, then that would be 2,000 shares.  If we had started trading with 4,000,000 shares issued at .005 and you bought 1 BTC you would have got 200 shares, same difference.  The only difference is you have 2,000 pieces or you have 200 pieces, and the same percentage of ownership.
918  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 02, 2013, 03:45:30 PM
We can't have a fixed amount of shares for paying expenses, as those will vary from month to month. VMC needs proper accounting.

Shares are just a means to distribute the profits, after all expenses are paid.

+1

Maybe 30-35% which would leave 15-20% for managements expenses. What do you guys think? It sounds fair right?

This should be left up to the internal accounting of VMC

VMC will have a 7 member board of directors to run the company, this will be setup just like a normal corporation.  Each share will represent ownership in
the company.
919  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 02, 2013, 02:10:03 PM
So, my proposal for the VMC shares would be:

  • 9 to 10M for investors at 0.0025
  • 10M for Ken

For a total of 19-20M. If more funds are needed in the future, more shares can be issued as needed, as means to increase the capital of VMC.

Ken did/is doing the hard work on everything, so he should get a nice amount of shares, and it's only thanks to him that there's an ASIC coming (one year of work already on optimizing Xilinx code).

Thoughts? Smiley

These numbers look sensible to me!

Would this number be viable for a 1 to 1 share swap?  How many shares have currently been issued and are owned by the public.  If that number is or will exceed 9,000,000, then that will not work.  Here's my suggestion for issuing shares.

10,000,000 Total (if possible)

4,500,000 are issued to the public all at once
2,000,000 are held by VMC to pay overhead, Ken's salary, etc.
3,500,000 are also held by VMC and all dividends that are paid to these will be reinvested into the company.

At no point or time should Ken or VMC be able to increase shares, or sell to the public any of the 5.5M that are held by VMC.

The total number of shares does not matter much, as the price per share will fall in accordingly. Offering more shares to the public if needed is a benefit to VMC, not a drawback. What if VMC needs more capital now, but don't has enough dividends to cover it?

- The public holds around 6M AMC shares, with around 3-4M more to be sold at .0025 for the NRE.
- Ken should be intitled to around 50-70% of the total shares, for all the work he has done so far and continues to do.
- VMC should hold no shares. Reinvestment cash should be taken as a cut from profits before issuing dividends. Having always a fixed % for reinvestment doesn't make sense in the long term.

My thinking right now is to reduce my ownership from 100% down to 60%
920  Economy / Securities / Re: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: July 02, 2013, 01:55:28 PM
The general feeling I am getting is that most people including myself are getting past the "AMC might be a scam" point to more of a "The way Kenneth Slaughter has set these 2 companies up is not optimal for the shareholder" viewpoint.

Few (paid) shills and dozen of really dumb investors got the lead but that does not mean scam is scam no more. I'm losing interest in helping a lot
of stupid people not got skinned here. How easily most can be persuaded into beliving anything and switch sides is disturbing. You people still have
no clue even who is Ken but it takes not much more than him posting "I'm not scammer" for you to belive it.

Sweet dreams!

Nice, to have you back in the thread.
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