[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[joele]

Up again 0.0019+, nice, luckily I cancelled my selling order at 0.0014 yesterday.
Waiting to hit the 0.0025 again.

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[Stuartuk]

I've been reading the thread closely for the past few days (I have shares in AMC) and see that the issue over AMC/VMC ownership (AMC share holders own neither company at the moment) is being addressed by Ken after lots of concern. For sure share holders need to own the company and it's profits and it's assets and no CEO should be able to declare one entity bankrupt only to walk off with shareholders investments in the other. OK that's being sorted.

The other big issue was how genuine the company was and this Unit in Springfield - does it exist?

Well I contacted by email a local company in one of the neighboring units. I explained briefly there were some concerned shareholders who wanted to know if the company were at the Unit. Got a reply back and here is a quote from it:

I just walked down to the unit. There is no sign outside but it looks like computers and desk inside with lots of boxes. This unit has been vacant so this is a new company for sure. There was a dry erase board on the floor with VMC Bitcom written in big letters.

So yes Ken has the unit and it looks like he is receiving orders at it like he said (the boxes). So I would say that's also a really positive sign as VMC wouldn't rent this space unless they needed it - they could only need it to assemble rigs or to house mining machines. I hope the trip is still on for the guys I'm sure both parties would get a lot out of the contact.

[ChefBorjan]

I've been reading the thread closely for the past few days (I have shares in AMC) and see that the issue over AMC/VMC ownership (AMC share holders own neither company at the moment) is being addressed by Ken after lots of concern. For sure share holders need to own the company and it's profits and it's assets and no CEO should be able to declare one entity bankrupt only to walk off with shareholders investments in the other. OK that's being sorted.

The other big issue was how genuine the company was and this Unit in Springfield - does it exist?

Well I contacted by email a local company in one of the neighboring units. I explained briefly there were some concerned shareholders who wanted to know if the company were at the Unit. Got a reply back and here is a quote from it:

I just walked down to the unit. There is no sign outside but it looks like computers and desk inside with lots of boxes. This unit has been vacant so this is a new company for sure. There was a dry erase board on the floor with VMC Bitcom written in big letters.

So yes Ken has the unit and it looks like he is receiving orders at it like he said (the boxes). So I would say that's also a really positive sign as VMC wouldn't rent this space unless they needed it - they could only need it to assemble rigs or to house mining machines. I hope the trip is still on for the guys I'm sure both parties would get a lot out of the contact.

The skeptics won't take that as proof of course but for me thats positive news. Thanks for that (although now its been done once hopefully we don't all pester other local businesses to verify this... might make Ken quite unpopular with his neighbours!)

[Vbs]

In case you guys missed it, this is where Ken has reserved 2 full rack space for some or our miners:

http://www.springfieldunderground.com/

Springfield Underground is cost-effective, secure, adaptable and environmentally friendly commercial real estate located 100 feet below ground in Springfield, Missouri. Its unusual location shields tenants from virtually all man-made and natural disasters. And, even though it is rail-served and accessible by truck, it is a limited access facility and affords exceptional security. A constant temperature of 62 degrees ensures low, uniform climate control costs for our clients.

The pics speak for themselves I believe: http://www.springfieldunderground.com/underground-tour/

[joele]

I've been reading the thread closely for the past few days (I have shares in AMC) and see that the issue over AMC/VMC ownership (AMC share holders own neither company at the moment) is being addressed by Ken after lots of concern. For sure share holders need to own the company and it's profits and it's assets and no CEO should be able to declare one entity bankrupt only to walk off with shareholders investments in the other. OK that's being sorted.

The other big issue was how genuine the company was and this Unit in Springfield - does it exist?

Well I contacted by email a local company in one of the neighboring units. I explained briefly there were some concerned shareholders who wanted to know if the company were at the Unit. Got a reply back and here is a quote from it:

I just walked down to the unit. There is no sign outside but it looks like computers and desk inside with lots of boxes. This unit has been vacant so this is a new company for sure. There was a dry erase board on the floor with VMC Bitcom written in big letters.

So yes Ken has the unit and it looks like he is receiving orders at it like he said (the boxes). So I would say that's also a really positive sign as VMC wouldn't rent this space unless they needed it - they could only need it to assemble rigs or to house mining machines. I hope the trip is still on for the guys I'm sure both parties would get a lot out of the contact.

This is positive news, and another bull rally, I think I need to buy more.

[kslaughter]

Here is the link to Springnet, the data-center inside Springfield Underground.

http://www.springnetunderground.net/assets/main.html

[Thalum]

If you guys can visit this when the road trip happens, that'd be awesome, with proof, pics etc if possible (like what reddit does for the AMAs).

[kslaughter]

If you guys can visit this when the road trip happens, that'd be awesome, with proof, pics etc if possible (like what reddit does for the AMAs).

Sorry, but the security is very high.  It is going to take about 10 days for us to get all of paperwork, badges, and Ids, so that
we can move the equipment there.

[mobile]

I just walked down to the unit. There is no sign outside but it looks like computers and desk inside with lots of boxes. This unit has been vacant so this is a new company for sure. There was a dry erase board on the floor with VMC Bitcom written in big letters.

So yes Ken has the unit and it looks like he is receiving orders at it like he said (the boxes). So I would say that's also a really positive sign as VMC wouldn't rent this space unless they needed it - they could only need it to assemble rigs or to house mining machines. I hope the trip is still on for the guys I'm sure both parties would get a lot out of the contact.

If you not blowing smoke, then this is very good news you bring 

In case you guys missed it, this is where Ken has reserved 2 full rack space for some or our miners:

http://www.springfieldunderground.com/

Springfield Underground is cost-effective, secure, adaptable and environmentally friendly commercial real estate located 100 feet below ground in Springfield, Missouri. Its unusual location shields tenants from virtually all man-made and natural disasters. And, even though it is rail-served and accessible by truck, it is a limited access facility and affords exceptional security. A constant temperature of 62 degrees ensures low, uniform climate control costs for our clients.

The pics speak for themselves I believe: http://www.springfieldunderground.com/underground-tour/

I recently read of the recent trend (recent for North America at least) for various industries going underground. So when I saw this it simply coincided with my past reading & makes sense. Nothing wrong with positioning your hardware in a location that could serve as a Nuclear Fallout Shelter. Protect your investments, or so they say 

Now that I have taken up thread space & forum bandwidth, I wish I had more meat to add. Ill simply close by stating, I've enjoyed buying from weak hands for the better part of the day.

[iCEBREAKER]

Springfield Underground is cost-effective, secure, adaptable and environmentally friendly commercial real estate located 100 feet below ground in Springfield, Missouri. Its unusual location shields tenants from virtually all man-made and natural disasters. And, even though it is rail-served and accessible by truck, it is a limited access facility and affords exceptional security. A constant temperature of 62 degrees ensures low, uniform climate control costs for our clients.

It's not Cheyenne Mountain, but should be sufficient for our needs.

Plot Twist: heat/noise/controversy/drama from AMC's mining awakens hibernating Silurians from their 100 million year slumber.  

Chaos ensues until UNIT restores order.  

[freedomno1]

He-he I was thinking the Simpsons but that was amusing
+1 to the Icebreaker
I can see how a stable environment would be useful for mining and storage
http://www.springfieldunderground.com/underground-tour/

[chsados]

I just came up with a idea to solve this problem.

I will create an VMC offering, then VMC will purchase AMC.  There you that is the solution.  Tell me what you think.

How will VMC purchase AMC? Will it buy back all the shares of AMC?


But if you did create a VMC offering, and then unite VMC with AMC under one roof, then yes this is exactly what we are all looking for. Again, it is just really important for current shareholders and potential investors like myself to see these two companies merged into one.

Yes, VMC would start purchasing AMC shares until it has all of them.

There is no need for this.

Here a simple way to do it with one announcement:

1. VMC has been shutdown
2. AMC will now be doing the mining AND sales of chips/hardware itself

Done!


Note: I know that is simplistic, but really, there is no need to complicate matters, keep them simple on purpose. Now, in the real world, you may have signed some documentation with eASIC etc ... but you can re-sign them as AMC.

That will not work!  I am sorry.  

Why Not?  Please explain in detail.


Ken is making this way too complicated for no reason.  Just kill VMC - AMC is now AMCVMC.  No more silly percentages of VMC profits, no more doubt.

Ken, why don't you try to reach out to Friedcat and have a conversation.  Seems like he welcomes competition.  

RE: Ken asking about fair salary
Does anyone know how Friedcat gets his "cut/salary?" in his business model?  I assume he holds shares himself and that is how he gets paid.

Great work tonight guys!  I think we are finally on the way towards where we need to be.  While we are waiting to hear back from Ken, could someone with a legal background look at the current AMC offering on Bitfunder to see if there is any possibility and or loophole that would allow an acquisition of VMC by AMC?  Ken has insisted that as it currently stands, there is no way for that to be done, but it would not hurt to run over it to be sure.  This would certainly be the easiest way to move forward on getting everything under one roof, but if Ken can legally not modify the contract, then we will have to go about it a different way.  Currently, the plan that is being drawn up is as following:

Ken will create a VMC offering at some point (when is anyone's guess).
Trading will continue on both offerings, AMC and VMC.
At some point, AMC holders will have the option to trade AMC shares in for an equal number of VMC shares.
We can assume that when the trade options are made available, Ken will officially announce VMC's acquisition of AMC, and will set a closing date.

Ken is still looking for feedback and suggestions from the community, so please keep them coming.  Great job guys!

I hope that AMC/VMC merging will happen so that gets the biggest issue out of the way. My next suggestion would be for us to work on a capped shares in the new security. We should have the shares capped at a reasonable number to avoid diluting the shares anytime in the future. This way the shares can continue to be valuable. If Ken can flood the market with massive amounts of shares at anytime this will dilute the investors shares and dividends will decrease. I don't know what the numbers of shares would be the best but would like to hear back from the community to discuss this matter.

+1

if this merger happens nice and fairly (i dont like how people could "game" the situation by buying "cheap" shares, but I guess they taking risk that a merge will never happen by doing this so who knows... on the flip side, what if AMC share price exceeds 0.0025 by some miracle and now you won't get a true 1:1 value

Everyone is getting really excited over nothing of substance. Please hold out until you see real evidence and get the contractual certainty you need before taking this seriously. It's not smart to rush back into this after a few assurances made on a forum. They won't stand up in court. You need a contract and evidence and until that materialises you are throwing good money after bad.

How do any of you know this isn't a ploy to get more money flooding into AMC before the big dissapearing act? The answer is you don't.
A few more days hyping this 'new development' up could net Mr Slaughter a dream-sized wad of cash.

And even forgetting the scam line - if this is a genuine company how do you know they are competant enough to follow through? What happens 3months down the line when they can't deliver and shares nose dive back to 0.0005 or lower? There is only one way to invest in any company and that is based on facts, evidence and finally projections of profit. You only have the last one of these three right now = sit on your hands.

+1
This could turn out similar to the infamous "news" hyped last week.

If you want to invest in success you need to invest in talent. I don't see any here.

Cool. Still planning to stick around or are you going to leave us to it?

If you think this situation has progressed over the past few days (it has certainly changed) then it is thanks to doubters like me not the sycophants. If me and Mega had not persisted with this you would still be in the VMC/AMC mess with no guarantees over rights and ownership. Now Ken from what I've read has said he's looking at solutions. The doubters have made him say that. Whether that is a genuine statement IS YET TO BE KNOWN.

What I'm saying basically is you need to question everything in this setup. When you get answers you then question them too. And finally if you want to invest - you do it ONCE YOU HAVE SEEN THE EVIDENCE. We are still at the question and answer stage and like I said there is still no evidence that this isn't going to end very badly. In any serious investors mind nothing has changed. It's only fools buying AMC right now and if they double or more their money here then on the next investment they will loose it - because they don't know how to ask the right questions.

You hear that?  It's the sound of no one caring.  I think a majority of us who have a stake in this company, put in no more than we were willing to lose.  Now, we are working to try to get this company in a position where we will hopefully see some decent ROI at some point.  Now, if you have nothing else to add, please run along sweet child.

SoylentCreek  you need to take a step back and put aside what i assume is hatred of steveioio and understand he is ENTIRELY correct.  If the "trolls" (these people were never trolling imo but raising valid concerns that you and others just did not like to hear) did not raise these questions there in deed would have never been ANY discussion about a merge.

Guys, just ignore the troll! Please do not let this thread derail back into the shit pile it has been over the last few days.

Seriously...?  Please look up the term Troll.  

This is trollling:

If someone with as few qualifications as Ken can deliver ASICs, how many others will have custom chips available?

 

You're back Entropy? I assumed after you deleted your earlier spam posts on this thread, you had gone for good. You can't pretend it never happened, plenty of people read them and remember your FUD.  

Next up: Entropy sees the light, starts pumping AMC to increase the value of his holdings  .

___________
Keep in mind, I still have over 10 pages to read through so i may have not read any changes yet.
EDIT: finished, questions still stand.

[stslimited]

so in summary, if eAsic is successful with the fast hash, then you guys plan to sell and mine with them much like ASICMiner does

in the mean time AMC will be..... mining and issuing dividends with lesser hardware?

[ArcticWolf]

I just came up with a idea to solve this problem.

I will create an VMC offering, then VMC will purchase AMC.  There you that is the solution.  Tell me what you think.

How will VMC purchase AMC? Will it buy back all the shares of AMC?


But if you did create a VMC offering, and then unite VMC with AMC under one roof, then yes this is exactly what we are all looking for. Again, it is just really important for current shareholders and potential investors like myself to see these two companies merged into one.

Yes, VMC would start purchasing AMC shares until it has all of them.

There is no need for this.

Here a simple way to do it with one announcement:

1. VMC has been shutdown
2. AMC will now be doing the mining AND sales of chips/hardware itself

Done!


Note: I know that is simplistic, but really, there is no need to complicate matters, keep them simple on purpose. Now, in the real world, you may have signed some documentation with eASIC etc ... but you can re-sign them as AMC.

That will not work!  I am sorry.  

Why Not?  Please explain in detail.


Ken is making this way too complicated for no reason.  Just kill VMC - AMC is now AMCVMC.  No more silly percentages of VMC profits, no more doubt.

Ken, why don't you try to reach out to Friedcat and have a conversation.  Seems like he welcomes competition.  

RE: Ken asking about fair salary
Does anyone know how Friedcat gets his "cut/salary?" in his business model?  I assume he holds shares himself and that is how he gets paid.

Great work tonight guys!  I think we are finally on the way towards where we need to be.  While we are waiting to hear back from Ken, could someone with a legal background look at the current AMC offering on Bitfunder to see if there is any possibility and or loophole that would allow an acquisition of VMC by AMC?  Ken has insisted that as it currently stands, there is no way for that to be done, but it would not hurt to run over it to be sure.  This would certainly be the easiest way to move forward on getting everything under one roof, but if Ken can legally not modify the contract, then we will have to go about it a different way.  Currently, the plan that is being drawn up is as following:

Ken will create a VMC offering at some point (when is anyone's guess).
Trading will continue on both offerings, AMC and VMC.
At some point, AMC holders will have the option to trade AMC shares in for an equal number of VMC shares.
We can assume that when the trade options are made available, Ken will officially announce VMC's acquisition of AMC, and will set a closing date.

Ken is still looking for feedback and suggestions from the community, so please keep them coming.  Great job guys!

I hope that AMC/VMC merging will happen so that gets the biggest issue out of the way. My next suggestion would be for us to work on a capped shares in the new security. We should have the shares capped at a reasonable number to avoid diluting the shares anytime in the future. This way the shares can continue to be valuable. If Ken can flood the market with massive amounts of shares at anytime this will dilute the investors shares and dividends will decrease. I don't know what the numbers of shares would be the best but would like to hear back from the community to discuss this matter.

+1

if this merger happens nice and fairly (i dont like how people could "game" the situation by buying "cheap" shares, but I guess they taking risk that a merge will never happen by doing this so who knows... on the flip side, what if AMC share price exceeds 0.0025 by some miracle and now you won't get a true 1:1 value

Everyone is getting really excited over nothing of substance. Please hold out until you see real evidence and get the contractual certainty you need before taking this seriously. It's not smart to rush back into this after a few assurances made on a forum. They won't stand up in court. You need a contract and evidence and until that materialises you are throwing good money after bad.

How do any of you know this isn't a ploy to get more money flooding into AMC before the big dissapearing act? The answer is you don't.
A few more days hyping this 'new development' up could net Mr Slaughter a dream-sized wad of cash.

And even forgetting the scam line - if this is a genuine company how do you know they are competant enough to follow through? What happens 3months down the line when they can't deliver and shares nose dive back to 0.0005 or lower? There is only one way to invest in any company and that is based on facts, evidence and finally projections of profit. You only have the last one of these three right now = sit on your hands.

+1
This could turn out similar to the infamous "news" hyped last week.

If you want to invest in success you need to invest in talent. I don't see any here.

Cool. Still planning to stick around or are you going to leave us to it?

If you think this situation has progressed over the past few days (it has certainly changed) then it is thanks to doubters like me not the sycophants. If me and Mega had not persisted with this you would still be in the VMC/AMC mess with no guarantees over rights and ownership. Now Ken from what I've read has said he's looking at solutions. The doubters have made him say that. Whether that is a genuine statement IS YET TO BE KNOWN.

What I'm saying basically is you need to question everything in this setup. When you get answers you then question them too. And finally if you want to invest - you do it ONCE YOU HAVE SEEN THE EVIDENCE. We are still at the question and answer stage and like I said there is still no evidence that this isn't going to end very badly. In any serious investors mind nothing has changed. It's only fools buying AMC right now and if they double or more their money here then on the next investment they will loose it - because they don't know how to ask the right questions.

You hear that?  It's the sound of no one caring.  I think a majority of us who have a stake in this company, put in no more than we were willing to lose.  Now, we are working to try to get this company in a position where we will hopefully see some decent ROI at some point.  Now, if you have nothing else to add, please run along sweet child.

SoylentCreek  you need to take a step back and put aside what i assume is hatred of steveioio and understand he is ENTIRELY correct.  If the "trolls" (these people were never trolling imo but raising valid concerns that you and others just did not like to hear) did not raise these questions there in deed would have never been ANY discussion about a merge.

Guys, just ignore the troll! Please do not let this thread derail back into the shit pile it has been over the last few days.

Seriously...?  Please look up the term Troll.  

This is trollling:

If someone with as few qualifications as Ken can deliver ASICs, how many others will have custom chips available?

 

You're back Entropy? I assumed after you deleted your earlier spam posts on this thread, you had gone for good. You can't pretend it never happened, plenty of people read them and remember your FUD.  

Next up: Entropy sees the light, starts pumping AMC to increase the value of his holdings  .

___________
Keep in mind, I still have over 10 pages to read through so i may have not read any changes yet.
EDIT: finished, questions still stand.

I think the answer to the first one would be that all of the contracts, space rentals, nda with easic etc etc were signed as VMC. Going back and changing all of those contracts would mean having to hash out new ones with all involved partied and would create a huge delay in development etc.

just my BTC0.02

[hf]

I just came up with a idea to solve this problem.

I will create an VMC offering, then VMC will purchase AMC.  There you that is the solution.  Tell me what you think.

How will VMC purchase AMC? Will it buy back all the shares of AMC?


But if you did create a VMC offering, and then unite VMC with AMC under one roof, then yes this is exactly what we are all looking for. Again, it is just really important for current shareholders and potential investors like myself to see these two companies merged into one.

Yes, VMC would start purchasing AMC shares until it has all of them.

There is no need for this.

Here a simple way to do it with one announcement:

1. VMC has been shutdown
2. AMC will now be doing the mining AND sales of chips/hardware itself

Done!


Note: I know that is simplistic, but really, there is no need to complicate matters, keep them simple on purpose. Now, in the real world, you may have signed some documentation with eASIC etc ... but you can re-sign them as AMC.

That will not work!  I am sorry.  

Why Not?  Please explain in detail.

Doing this would require modifying AMC contract on bitfunder, which is impossible. Nothing else to explain, no detail to add, period.

http://www.springnetunderground.net/assets/main.html

This is one really scary website. I wouldn't want to meet the webdesigner. Facility looks great, though.

[Vbs]

chsados,

The solution that made more sense was for VMC to absorb AMC and not the other way around, that's what Ken was referring to. Like hf said, it would require to drastically change AMC's contract and most contracts with other parties are already signed with VMC.

Bottom line: Create a new VMC asset with mining + hardware sales and let existing AMC shareholders trade their AMC shares to VMC shares 1:1. I'm also expecting VMC will have a much lesser number of shares than AMC, around 4 times less (~25M).

Read the FAQ: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=158806.msg1687176#msg1687176

[Vbs]

so in summary, if eAsic is successful with the fast hash, then you guys plan to sell and mine with them much like ASICMiner does

in the mean time AMC will be..... mining and issuing dividends with lesser hardware?

Yep, that's the idea (using the AM model).

The ultimate aim is to shutdown AMC as an asset, keeping everything under the VMC roof. Anyone with AMC shares can convert them to VMC shares, so there will be less and less people holding AMC shares (actually, AMC shareholders are giving their shares to VMC in exchange for new 1:1 shares, so VMC will continuously be increasing its ownership of AMC).

Since Ken can't really "force" anyone to convert their shares, the extra VMC profits and benefits must do the convincing. Also, for example, a liquidation condition of AMC can be stipulated in X months from now and when Y% of AMC's shareholders have converted their shares into VMC shares. I think this part needs some community brainstorming.

[Exocyst]

so in summary, if eAsic is successful with the fast hash, then you guys plan to sell and mine with them much like ASICMiner does

in the mean time AMC will be..... mining and issuing dividends with lesser hardware?

1st round of lesser hardware will be 20,000 avalon chips (ordered) used to make Avalon clones.

[stslimited]

so in summary, if eAsic is successful with the fast hash, then you guys plan to sell and mine with them much like ASICMiner does

in the mean time AMC will be..... mining and issuing dividends with lesser hardware?

1st round of lesser hardware will be 20,000 avalon chips (ordered) used to make Avalon clones.

ah cool, what would the hashrate of that be?

[Vbs]

so in summary, if eAsic is successful with the fast hash, then you guys plan to sell and mine with them much like ASICMiner does

in the mean time AMC will be..... mining and issuing dividends with lesser hardware?

1st round of lesser hardware will be 20,000 avalon chips (ordered) used to make Avalon clones.

ah cool, what would the hashrate of that be?

Currently AMC has 6 Avalons on BTC Guild (read faq), for around 430 GH/s.

AMC has an order of Avalon chips from steamboat's batch #1, which will be used on 68 Klondike-16 boards, for 68*16*282 = 306,816 MH/s

There are also 2 orders of 10,000 chips, one from the last days of May and the first days of June. Combined, 20,000*282 = 5,640,000 MH/s

In total, 6,376,816 MH/s (yes, almost 6.4TH!)