Hello everyone,
As it is part of running a betting service, sometimes we have to make some decisions that will not please all of our users. This is certainly one of these cases. I agree that the bet description statements are barely satisfied but the bet is actually on "shipping" of a commercial product. To the best of our judgment the pictured device is still an internal development unit within the company premises, even if it is somehow "owned" by a non-employee. As far as I can see even BFL doesn't officially claim shipping. Under these circumstances we can not rule the statement as false. Our decision is currently not final and we will be listening your input for a few days before the final decision. Feel free to raise your opinion.
Please note that I have physically handled my unit, and BFL has it at their office now only at my own request that they keep it there for the time being. As I understand it, BFL's "shipping" refers to their Batch 1 which has special shipping constraints. The plan to provide units to developers in advance, including the ones I paid for such as this Little Single, has been there all along, so it would be unreasonable IMO to exclude it from the bet. I believe you should be able to verify that I have no stake in the bet (unless it's semi-anonymous or something); I have no objections if you wish to disclose that. - Why did you request BFL to keep the unit? Being that you are a developer wouldn't it been in everyone's best interest that you keep the unit? Doesn't this seem odd? It seems like there were some additional issues that you and BFL are working through. In that case, wouldn't it be fair to say that these units have not "shipped"? It has to be one or the other, wouldn't you say? If a developer who has much technical expertise can not take his unit then how could we say it is shipping? I am just trying to understand your position. Thank you in advance. Thank you again for all your hard work. |
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They are not shipping...
People don't understand that BFL shipping a PROTOTYPE to a BFL EMPLOYEE doesn't mean they are actually shipping finished products to customers yet.
I think ngzhang in the same way silently "shipped" his first Avalon to Yifu back in 2012  (or vice versa) Except the Avalon was actually "shipped" in basically the same form as retail units and Jeff is not a contractor at the least and employee at the most. Last and the most important point, he never truly took possession of the unit, so it was really just a photo-op to win a bet that they clearly didn't win. |
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Disclosure: I do not have any stake in the outcome of the "BFL Ships ASIC before April 1st" bet.
With that said, from what I have read and the details about the unit not being in the possession of Luke-Jr, it being on the test bench and Luke not being with the unit. Also mentioning that BFL likely violated their own 1/3 shipping plan, shows that this was more of a STUNTto win a bet and not a real shipment.
Verdict: Bet is lost
Sidenote: It is promising to finally see this type of progress from BFL and we should not berate them so harshly when they really gave people information they have been craving. I know they are late and have done many objectionable tactics, but you can't burn them on the stake for this one. It is good to see that information released.
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If you have an ASIC product then you are already at the finish line. You don't really need investors at this point.
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I do not think we have enough density yet of metal sales to support a whole subforum. I don't understand this constant need to subdivide everything all the time just because we can.
Yea, that's my reasoning for asking how many new posts per day. Once it's averaging >5-10 posts a day then it may be time for something to get it's own section. On the flip side, I do believe it their was a sub-forum for this, you would see many posts that were normally under goods, migrate over there. Just a thought. |
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You should sell me your Batch #2  |
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I care about bitcoins and frankly even though I have asics on order the problem is not bfl asicminer or avalon. It is the bitcoin developers they allowed this to happen by allowing preorder system. They simply could have banned asics until a seller had them built. Instead they put all the risk on the miners.
Can you elaborate this statement, please? How exactly could the bitcoin developers have banned any specific payments or mining devices? Sure when bfl posted back in june the developers could have simply said no unit that hashes over 29Gh will work at bit mining. Until said developer shows working prototype all workers are capped at 30Gh. At the time I think some Fpga rigs could do 25 to 27Gh. This would have forced builders to build the rigs first since they won't be allowed to work unless tested. Capping a worker at 25 or 30 or 40 Gh should be simple to do. Now the network is in the hands of a few rather then many. This would have meant buying an asic from bfl back in june would be far less attractive then it was. Buying an asic is still crazy stupid hard to do (if buying means getting it in a week or less) and that is really bad for bitcoin. Frankly I have 78GH (2x little singles + 2x jalapeņos) on order from BFL I don't expect to ever see it , but I will get my money back since the orders are paypal. I will just get a refund every 40 days then order a week later. So far I have done this twice. Basically take a good look at Avalon's actions They have sent out emails saying they are developing a mining farm and delaying the second batch along with the third batch getting a crazy price raise. There actions are bad as BFL's in every way except for the lucky 300. The point I am making is asic's or the lack of the ability to buy them is going to kill bitcoins. That is on the bitcoin program team not avalon not bfl and not asciminer. Since a 30 or 60 day ban on all workers with 30gh hash power would once again spread the network out instead of having a hand full of people or groups with most of the hash power. Don't you think the Batch #2 & #3 delay was communicated, and they said in April, Avalon will ship both batches. They have stuck close enough to schedule up to this point for us to give them the benefit of doubt. I think that your not being fair compared to your two alternatives. I do not advocate an arbitrary ban on mining. This sets a counter-productive precedent to the future management of the network. People do not want power influenced in that manner. In Bitcoin, you truly do vote with your coins. Dalkore |
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Let's just add to the list. Chip Geek: We need a few in the hands of customers before April 1 for the bitbet wager...
BFL_Josh: I know Chip Geek, I'm going to try to ship out a unit ,at least one, before APril first if it's at all possible.
BFL_Josh: Imma pull an Avalon all the way, it's a proven method! BFL_Josh: Yes, I'm aware that Bitcointalk trolls will have a field day with everything I've just said. Heh. Even a broken power regulator and a bad power brick is still better than an Avalon A broken unit is better than a Avalon. Wow, that is a heap of respect for your competitors. I can't wait to support this type of attitude. They really did hire the "perfect" PR person to handle company communications. Good job Butterfly Labs. |
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OP - I do not have any more BTC, but I can offer to send you USD if you can convert it to BTC, I would like to get into your pool as well. If one of the motive was to divide the risk, and you have more BTC, then you can take up my offer.
this is crazy. people cant give their money/btc fast enough to this guy... this has epic fail written all over it. i really hope your batch 3 shipments arrive well before bfl's 'product' tldr; btc NEVER goes down in price, avalon batch 3 will ship long before bfl, pep's have more dollars than cents. gl coinhorder, hope to never have to see that scammer tag under your handle... Regardless, Coinhoarder is mining the units for them and sending BTC. He is not guaranteeing profits. You should really take a moment to think through your statement so they read like they are well informed. |
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Honestly, I think it is overpriced. For $300 you can find Technics 1200 (The DJ Standard) and those hold their resale value really well. With that said, I would price it over 125 and under 250 and in that range, it is a very quality turntable to listening to vinyl.
Thanks for your reply! I didn't know that you could find SL-1200s for $300, that's pretty cool. Always thought they were $500+. The SL1500 is probably in the $125-250 range itself. The cartridge is $70, the preamp is about $180, and the 18 records themselves might average around $5 a piece. I feel that this is a very reasonable price at 3BTC shipped for all of that. If you can find a comparably priced bundle deal, let me know and I may reevaluate the price. OK, I will give you that. I am editing my post. |
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GMaxwell apparently thinks BFL is a scam.
My thread has been renamed and moved to Scam Accusations.
I'm not sure I agree with that statement... gmaxwell moved it because it's an accusation which belongs in the scam accusation forum; not because he thinks it's a scam. Which is probably where all this discussion belongs until proven one way or the other... Nice way of twisting words there. Nuclear; you are an interesting dude. made a name 6 days ago and all your posts are defending BFL. what is your background? I am just curious? 6 days ago? Look again... Date Registered: June 09, 2011, 03:43:38 PM I'm not defending them...but at the same time there certainly are some people around here with an axe to grind. Frankly I've seen some pretty outlandish statements made by BFL employees; and they've obviously missed multiple deadlines. That said...people saying that moderators agree it's a scam simply because their threads were moved to the proper forum (scam accusations) is equally outlandish. My background? Merely a curious observer in this mess. You are correct. Some of us do have a VALID axe to grind. Try reading my posts in this thread to get at some legitimate issues they should answer for publicly. |
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Wow, someone gets a computer case, a printed sign, no talking and makes a script that shows numbers rising and them stabilize........ ASIC. Send your money now. |
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Would like to see SCAMMER TAG added to ALL BFL employees
That is not what I would call constructive. Deleting your post. |
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Didn't HorseRider state he ordered 50?
Yes, I added that and couple of other bulk order in original post, but since they did not give me order number, I could not add to the list. You should not need an order number to add it to the list. 50 is 50 and that is a large portion of 600 (btw, Yifu revised that number and said only 500) |
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Didn't HorseRider state he ordered 50?
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Honestly, I think it is overpriced. For $300 you can find Technics 1200 (The DJ Standard) and those hold their resale value really well. With that said, I would price it over 125 and under 250 and in that range, it is a very quality turntable to listening to vinyl.
OP gave an excellent response and I wasn't clear on the size of the package. It is actually a solid deal.
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First of all im not a unstablished member, im a very old member, with proofs on honest member threads.Although i agree but im not going to get burned for 1500 dollars and get scammed by someone saying it didnt receive, although i will give you access to pre - order account and change the shipping address to you location ...
Best offer receive by PM
Thanks for your time
//cyberaa
Are you refusing escrow for this? |
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APPROVE! I was just about to a request for this to be a sub-section under "goods".
How many posts per day that would fit into the section? You could do precious metals & commodities |
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