My Beef with BFL (Constructive Criticism Only)

[tvbcof]

Would like to see SCAMMER TAG added to ALL BFL employees

That is not what I would call constructive.  Deleting your post. 

I think the poster has a point.   A company that is so far behind in promises and make further promises repeatedly and are still taking people's money with ship dates promised out two months should be considered a scammer.   Why that offends your sense of fairness eludes me.   Even if they are working hard to produce the units paid for 9 months ago, their current actions of "order now" and giving new promises which we know not to be true, would qualify them to be labeled as a scammer.

His criticism is constructive.   when you have screwed up, you should stop collecting people's money until you can actually physically deliver what you overpromised many times before.

If the statement "I'm planning to do {whatever} and expect to do it {whenever}"  is sufficient to avoid a spammer tag, then such a tag is fairly pointless.  Particularly if the {whatever} and {whenever} can be re-set as needed.

BFL seems to have been getting a pass via this mechanism for quite a long time now.  Just sayin'

[Korbman]

A company that is so far behind in promises and make further promises repeatedly and are still taking people's money with ship dates promised out two months should be considered a scammer. Why that offends your sense of fairness eludes me.

Now how does that make any sense? It's clear your definition of "scammer" is a bit falsely construed.

Based on your definition, I presume Team Avalon must also qualify as a scammer since they're taking people's money now for Batch #3, which won't be out for many months? They're surely a team of scammers since they promised to ship, what was it, 12 units a day at the end of January? Yet April is upon us and only now are they finishing up the delivery of the first Batch...

Even if they are working hard to produce the units paid for 9 months ago, their current actions of "order now" and giving new promises which we know not to be true, would qualify them to be labeled as a scammer.

How do we know their promises aren't true? (Before brashly responding, think about it from a rationalized point of view for a moment)

When you have screwed up, you should stop collecting people's money until you can actually physically deliver what you overpromised many times before.

Ideally I (and many others) wish this was the case. Down payment now, full payment when a product is available.

[Bogart]

Would like to see SCAMMER TAG added to ALL BFL employees

That is not what I would call constructive.  Deleting your post. 

I think the poster has a point.   A company that is so far behind in promises and make further promises repeatedly and are still taking people's money with ship dates promised out two months should be considered a scammer.   Why that offends your sense of fairness eludes me.   Even if they are working hard to produce the units paid for 9 months ago, their current actions of "order now" and giving new promises which we know not to be true, would qualify them to be labeled as a scammer.

His criticism is constructive.   when you have screwed up, you should stop collecting people's money until you can actually physically deliver what you overpromised many times before.

I don't know about a tag, but I do think that BFL ought to stop taking new orders until they actually begin shipping.

bASIC closed their orders after they had taken on "enough".  Imagine how much bigger that mess would be if they had left them open.

[Minor Miner]

A company that is so far behind in promises and make further promises repeatedly and are still taking people's money with ship dates promised out two months should be considered a scammer. Why that offends your sense of fairness eludes me.

Now how does that make any sense? It's clear your definition of "scammer" is a bit falsely construed.

Based on your definition, I presume Team Avalon must also qualify as a scammer since they're taking people's money now for Batch #3, which won't be out for many months? They're surely a team of scammers since they promised to ship, what was it, 12 units a day at the end of January? Yet April is upon us and only now are they finishing up the delivery of the first Batch...

Even if they are working hard to produce the units paid for 9 months ago, their current actions of "order now" and giving new promises which we know not to be true, would qualify them to be labeled as a scammer.

How do we know their promises aren't true? (Before brashly responding, think about it from a rationalized point of view for a moment)

When you have screwed up, you should stop collecting people's money until you can actually physically deliver what you overpromised many times before.

Ideally I (and many others) wish this was the case. Down payment now, full payment when a product is available.

To answer your question about how do we know their promises are NOT TRUE?   Well; a month ago they said their capacity was 500 a day, now they say it is 300 a day.   Have you ever run a factory?   You would know they are full of crap when they think they can run at capacity and their estimate of capacity changes by 40% in one month.    They would not selling more units if they were honest.   As to the question on Avalon, can you direct me to FACTS that either one of them is a convicted felon?   Or that the other one has a judgement against him in a federal court for ripping off DirectTV?   Can you point me to a post where the partner of Avalon called someone a blowjob giving thai whore when someone criticized them.
Let me know the links.   I understand you seem to be ingratiating (maybe to "protect" your position in this fictional shipping line), but that does not mean that anyone with an IQ over 80 cannot see through these people.

[CharlesPonzi]

Anyone offering a product to sell which doesnt actually exist should be moved to speculation or "possible scam" board.

[billotronic]

Now, I am going to go out on a limb here, but surely someone active (or lurking) that is familiar with this issue could do some legal physical surveillance of BFL? It's not like its a secret where to find them...

http://butterflylabs.com/contact/

I mean if nothing else, one could easily spot deliveries and shipments to and fro or SOMETHING.

At least there might be a chance to get some solid info into the public domain before troves of nerds heads start exploding from ASIC blue balls. We can sit here and rehash complaints over and over but it changes nothing. NO one is happy. Folks have a TON of money tied up in this companies hypothetical offerings (happy I started with one jal). In a sense, we are ALL in this together to one extent or another.

[Entropy-uc]

GMaxwell apparently thinks BFL is a scam.

My thread has been renamed and moved to Scam Accusations.

BTW, hoping for the community to pitch in a bit more for next week.

Josh knows he can't afford to outbid me on one ad, so he only bid for 6 ad slots.

I'd like to squeeze him by outbidding him on another.  So far I have 0.7364.  Toss some bit pennies my way so I can squeeze him on his advertising prices.

I will stop upping the bid on the second ad at some (secret) point, so that the community coins will roll over to cost him money again next week.   

[nuclear]

GMaxwell apparently thinks BFL is a scam.

My thread has been renamed and moved to Scam Accusations.

I'm not sure I agree with that statement...

gmaxwell moved it because it's an accusation which belongs in the scam accusation forum; not because he thinks it's a scam.  Which is probably where all this discussion belongs until proven one way or the other...

Nice way of twisting words there.

[Minor Miner]

GMaxwell apparently thinks BFL is a scam.

My thread has been renamed and moved to Scam Accusations.

I'm not sure I agree with that statement...

gmaxwell moved it because it's an accusation which belongs in the scam accusation forum; not because he thinks it's a scam.  Which is probably where all this discussion belongs until proven one way or the other...

Nice way of twisting words there.

Nuclear;

you are an interesting dude.    made a name 6 days ago and all your posts are defending BFL.   what is your background?   I am just curious?

[Frankie Delaney]

GMaxwell apparently thinks BFL is a scam.

My thread has been renamed and moved to Scam Accusations.

I'm not sure I agree with that statement...

gmaxwell moved it because it's an accusation which belongs in the scam accusation forum; not because he thinks it's a scam.  Which is probably where all this discussion belongs until proven one way or the other...

Nice way of twisting words there.

Nuclear;

you are an interesting dude.    made a name 6 days ago and all your posts are defending BFL.   what is your background?   I am just curious?

My guess is he started out selling satellite dish decoders to steal directTV signals, and has since moved on to collecting pre-orders for vaporware.

[tvbcof]

Nuclear;

you are an interesting dude.    made a name 6 days ago and all your posts are defending BFL.   what is your background?   I am just curious?

My guess is he started out selling satellite dish decoders to steal directTV signals, and has since moved on to collecting pre-orders for vaporware.

My guess would be just another foot-soldier in the sockpuppet army of BFL-istan.  Yawn.

[mobodick]

That's not a fair comparison, because both the lambo and the jet exist. A more apt comparison would be a lambo racing the millennium falcon. Yeah, the Millennium falcon's specs are better on paper, but it's not real.

Wait, what? 

[crazyates]

That's not a fair comparison, because both the lambo and the jet exist. A more apt comparison would be a lambo racing the millennium falcon. Yeah, the Millennium falcon's specs are better on paper, but it's not real.

Wait, what? 

It ain't over yet...

That's not a fair comparison, because both the lambo and the jet exist. A more apt comparison would be a lambo racing the millennium falcon. Yeah, the Millennium falcon's specs are better on paper, but it's not real.

[nuclear]

GMaxwell apparently thinks BFL is a scam.

My thread has been renamed and moved to Scam Accusations.

I'm not sure I agree with that statement...

gmaxwell moved it because it's an accusation which belongs in the scam accusation forum; not because he thinks it's a scam.  Which is probably where all this discussion belongs until proven one way or the other...

Nice way of twisting words there.

Nuclear;

you are an interesting dude.    made a name 6 days ago and all your posts are defending BFL.   what is your background?   I am just curious?

6 days ago? Look again...

Date Registered:   June 09, 2011, 03:43:38 PM

I'm not defending them...but at the same time there certainly are some people around here with an axe to grind.   Frankly I've seen some pretty outlandish statements made by BFL employees; and they've obviously missed multiple deadlines.  That said...people saying that moderators agree it's a scam simply because their threads were moved to the proper forum (scam accusations) is equally outlandish.

My background? Merely a curious observer in this mess.

[Minor Miner]

GMaxwell apparently thinks BFL is a scam.

My thread has been renamed and moved to Scam Accusations.

I'm not sure I agree with that statement...

gmaxwell moved it because it's an accusation which belongs in the scam accusation forum; not because he thinks it's a scam.  Which is probably where all this discussion belongs until proven one way or the other...

Nice way of twisting words there.

Nuclear;

you are an interesting dude.    made a name 6 days ago and all your posts are defending BFL.   what is your background?   I am just curious?

6 days ago? Look again...

Date Registered:   June 09, 2011, 03:43:38 PM

I'm not defending them...but at the same time there certainly are some people around here with an axe to grind.   Frankly I've seen some pretty outlandish statements made by BFL employees; and they've obviously missed multiple deadlines.  That said...people saying that moderators agree it's a scam simply because their threads were moved to the proper forum (scam accusations) is equally outlandish.

My background? Merely a curious observer in this mess.

11 posts in two years and all in the last six days?   you were posting a few days ago asking to get out of the newbie jail?  There is something wrong with the posting history function then.   Maybe clicking on your profile does not work?   My apologies, I do not understand the search function properly.   Maybe it shows up like that because you merged accounts?

"I want to link my Bitcointalk name with BTCJam's. Verification code: 7b3c19df-289b-4f31-a80e-2c7300d87f4e"

[nuclear]

6 days ago? Look again...

Date Registered:   June 09, 2011, 03:43:38 PM

I'm not defending them...but at the same time there certainly are some people around here with an axe to grind.   Frankly I've seen some pretty outlandish statements made by BFL employees; and they've obviously missed multiple deadlines.  That said...people saying that moderators agree it's a scam simply because their threads were moved to the proper forum (scam accusations) is equally outlandish.

My background? Merely a curious observer in this mess.

11 posts in two years and all in the last six days?   you were posting a few days ago asking to get out of the newbie jail?  There is something wrong with the posting history function then.   Maybe clicking on your profile does not work?   My apologies, I do not understand the search function properly.   Maybe it shows up like that because you merged accounts?

"I want to link my Bitcointalk name with BTCJam's. Verification code: 7b3c19df-239b-4f31-a90e-2c7300d87f4e"

There's nothing wrong with it.  My post count is accurate and my username has never been changed.

[Dalkore]

GMaxwell apparently thinks BFL is a scam.

My thread has been renamed and moved to Scam Accusations.

I'm not sure I agree with that statement...

gmaxwell moved it because it's an accusation which belongs in the scam accusation forum; not because he thinks it's a scam.  Which is probably where all this discussion belongs until proven one way or the other...

Nice way of twisting words there.

Nuclear;

you are an interesting dude.    made a name 6 days ago and all your posts are defending BFL.   what is your background?   I am just curious?

6 days ago? Look again...

Date Registered:   June 09, 2011, 03:43:38 PM

I'm not defending them...but at the same time there certainly are some people around here with an axe to grind.   Frankly I've seen some pretty outlandish statements made by BFL employees; and they've obviously missed multiple deadlines.  That said...people saying that moderators agree it's a scam simply because their threads were moved to the proper forum (scam accusations) is equally outlandish.

My background? Merely a curious observer in this mess.

You are correct.  Some of us do have a VALID axe to grind.  Try reading my posts in this thread to get at some legitimate issues they should answer for publicly. 

[nuclear]

GMaxwell apparently thinks BFL is a scam.

My thread has been renamed and moved to Scam Accusations.

I'm not sure I agree with that statement...

gmaxwell moved it because it's an accusation which belongs in the scam accusation forum; not because he thinks it's a scam.  Which is probably where all this discussion belongs until proven one way or the other...

Nice way of twisting words there.

Nuclear;

you are an interesting dude.    made a name 6 days ago and all your posts are defending BFL.   what is your background?   I am just curious?

6 days ago? Look again...

Date Registered:   June 09, 2011, 03:43:38 PM

I'm not defending them...but at the same time there certainly are some people around here with an axe to grind.   Frankly I've seen some pretty outlandish statements made by BFL employees; and they've obviously missed multiple deadlines.  That said...people saying that moderators agree it's a scam simply because their threads were moved to the proper forum (scam accusations) is equally outlandish.

My background? Merely a curious observer in this mess.

You are correct.  Some of us do have a VALID axe to grind.  Try reading my posts in this thread to get at some legitimate issues they should answer for publicly.  

I've read your posts; and I'll say at the very least I agree with the original post in this thread.  My axe grinding comment was directed at a few others who continually post misleading and twisted statements as truth across multiple threads.

Going in the completely opposite direction and back on topic...this post in particular pretty much sums up my suspicions:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159104.msg1681314#msg1681314

[Frankie Delaney]

I've read your posts; and I'll say at the very least I agree with the original post in this thread.  My axe grinding comment was directed at a few others who continually post misleading and twisted statements as truth across multiple threads.

This post in particular pretty much sums up my suspicions:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159104.msg1681314#msg1681314

What about that post is twisted or misleading?

[nuclear]

I've read your posts; and I'll say at the very least I agree with the original post in this thread.  My axe grinding comment was directed at a few others who continually post misleading and twisted statements as truth across multiple threads.

This post in particular pretty much sums up my suspicions:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159104.msg1681314#msg1681314

What about that post is twisted or misleading?

Sorry; I'm trying to say I agree with what you've said. I'll reword that...