That is a good video explaining things about Bitfinex's repayment plan. Thank you for posting. I will wait for others to comment on any weaknesses they see with their scheme. Maybe the situation is not like MtGox but I am still skeptical. The lessons of MtGox is still as fresh as ever. Trust no one. |
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I guess recovering from a big hack is really hard to do
maybe they've loan a big debt in some bank but didn't manage to repay it?
Blocking the deposits is the proof.
Where ever they got the money from to cover the hacked funds, they will need to repay it and they are now millions in the hole. The easiest way for them to solve their problem is to Gox their way out. Are the owners of Bitfinex capable of doing such a thing? Mark Karpeles was. The owner of Cryptsy was. Of course their capable. Do you think these unknown people running an exchange in Hong Kong are somehow more honorable than a French scammer that ran from his home country to Japan to run an exchange? I do not mean overall but only in this instance. I believe all people are capable but it depends whether they have reached a tipping point. By the way Bitfinex got the funds from a Bitcoin crowdfunding platform called Bnktothefuture in exchange for 25% equity of the company. But the terms are not shown to the public. If there is someone out there who can explain, please do. |
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Is it possible that it's not insolvency but KYC/AML? Bitfinex is having issues not because it's MT Gox but because it was just like the Chinese exchanges and especially the tether crypto which is literally the definition of money laundering. The only exchanges allowed to be left standing are full KYC/AML exchanges. The issue is the huge amount of daily money that needs to be put into BTC and all the other crypto just to maintain current price levels and if the only way that can be done is through full KYC/AML exchanges it's unlikely the price levels will be maintained.
That could be it. But you should remember that Bitfinex was hacked and had funds stolen that amounted to $65m. That is a very huge loss. So the issue that they might be insolvent should always be there and should not be avoided or ignored. MtGox was in an exact same position years ago. Roger Ver said they were solvent but they were really not. We know how that story ended. Well, apparently, Bitfinex raised the money to pay back those who were hacked. See https://bnktothefuture.com/search/pitchesScroll down to see the bitrfinex details. You can can only see the deep details if you are a bitfinex member, but the overall details says that they raised £42 million, 382 investors took park and they appear to have given away 25% of the equity of their business in return. Yes, I saw this yesterday but it does not really explain the pitch openly to the public. I would imagine 25% equity is fair if they want to be minority owner of Bitfinex. I will still not feel safe making Bitcoin deposits there though. I believe Bitfinex also have USDT trading. Why not promote that so that their users can hold USDT in their own wallets. |
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But as soon as all the whales and the big traders have gotten everything they have out from Bitfinex that is when the truth starts coming out. It is happening just like Gox. I hope we also get the biggest pump in Bitcoin history with it.
I expect a dump will happen as soon as all the whales and big traders have gotten everything they have out of bitfinex if they decided to convert it into fiat. I also hope to see the biggest pump in history but there is the possibility that we will see again the repeat of 2013 and I know many of us dont want to see a dump that big again except for those who want to buy cheap bitcoin. This is what panic sellers do. And panic sellers have small purses, because they lose their money just as fast as they make their few pennies. And you're hoping for a dump.... Problems with the stomach? Maybe that is why during MtGox they pumped the price to more than the premium price they bought in then sold high and after the dump, they bought low again. MT GOX was a stupid fake price rise that was done only because it had way too much power and influence. What are you saying? That pumping the price today is not possible anymore after Gox? Gox did not have that much power and influence on the market. It was enjoying the reputation of being the first Bitcoin exchange. That is all. i mean there were literary no other exchanges even remotely big to have any effect on the price!
right now the volume that bitfinex has is the same percentage as those small other exchanges at the time of GOX.
and also gox pump was a one time thing that happened because of that influence that place had. and it was done by the exchange not the whales.
Despite the $65m hack on Bitfinex last year and problem of withdrawals being locked by the exchange in fiat, you still believe the price increase is normal? It is clear the price increase and the premium price in Bitfinex is because of users are buying up Bitcoin to withdraw. |
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Reading further into comments it's not even clear this is an exploit being attacked at all and could well be a spontaneous 'coordinated' bug due to network conditions causing a massive memory leak on the BU client. One person said he didn't have problems on his PC with 256GB ram  Yeah I was thinking that too. Reading between the lines of what the devs are saying it could be related to the large mempool. It may not be an exploit at all. The person with 256GB RAM was a dev too. Takes the old saying "works on my machine" to a whole new level. That shows that they do not respect the users. They cannot not admit that they made a mistake or they made an inferior implementation and a buggy version of Bitcoin. They are now a joke, I cannot find a reason why some of the Legendary members here still defend them. |
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https://coin.dance/poliAs of today, 88% wants segwit. EC (BUcoin) has a bigger rejection rate than UASF, which is revealing. As we have seen with LTC, the price rises along with the segwit hashrate (and we'll see an ATH due BTC's inability to get to enjoy segwit, thus blocking LN development efforts, since segwit provides for full capacity LN and other features needed for proper payment channel functionality). A small amount of miners (how many really? Jihan Wu? and a couple other pools, no more than 5 guys) are blocking hundreds of people involved in BTC services, exchanges and so on. They also go against node majority. Segwit is officially held hostage by a tiny amount of miners with a hashrate monopoly, probably state-sponsored. Meanwhile, LTC will eat BTC's lunch as segwit activates. ^ meaningless rhetoric. The miners will decide the longest chain and don't care about your opinion. Go sell your BTC and buy LTC if you love segwit.I believe it is all going there. The hesitance of the miners to activate Segwit could make developers have interest to develop on Litecoin more. Correct me if I am wrong but Segwit does open up the possibility for Bitcoin or Litecoin to have smart contracts for the network, yes? |
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bitfinex did not get $65m from exchange fee profits. they grabbed funding from https://bnktothefuture.com £42.66m=$54.5m and now using that to pay out to users in debt but taking from peter to pay paul is also known as a ponzi. so dont think that bitfinex's finances/drama is over anytime soon Good catch! If this funding a loan that needs to be paid back with interest, or did they just sell shares in their business? The terms are not clear because only the Bitfinex users are allowed to see the pitch. Are there Bitfinex users here who would like to explain and post more details about Bitfinex's pitch? |
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I guess recovering from a big hack is really hard to do
maybe they've loan a big debt in some bank but didn't manage to repay it?
Blocking the deposits is the proof.
Where ever they got the money from to cover the hacked funds, they will need to repay it and they are now millions in the hole. The easiest way for them to solve their problem is to Gox their way out. Are the owners of Bitfinex capable of doing such a thing? Mark Karpeles was. The owner of Cryptsy was. |
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Is it possible that it's not insolvency but KYC/AML? Bitfinex is having issues not because it's MT Gox but because it was just like the Chinese exchanges and especially the tether crypto which is literally the definition of money laundering. The only exchanges allowed to be left standing are full KYC/AML exchanges. The issue is the huge amount of daily money that needs to be put into BTC and all the other crypto just to maintain current price levels and if the only way that can be done is through full KYC/AML exchanges it's unlikely the price levels will be maintained.
That could be it. But you should remember that Bitfinex was hacked and had funds stolen that amounted to $65m. That is a very huge loss. So the issue that they might be insolvent should always be there and should not be avoided or ignored. MtGox was in an exact same position years ago. Roger Ver said they were solvent but they were really not. We know how that story ended. |
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But as soon as all the whales and the big traders have gotten everything they have out from Bitfinex that is when the truth starts coming out. It is happening just like Gox. I hope we also get the biggest pump in Bitcoin history with it.
I expect a dump will happen as soon as all the whales and big traders have gotten everything they have out of bitfinex if they decided to convert it into fiat. I also hope to see the biggest pump in history but there is the possibility that we will see again the repeat of 2013 and I know many of us dont want to see a dump that big again except for those who want to buy cheap bitcoin. This is what panic sellers do. And panic sellers have small purses, because they lose their money just as fast as they make their few pennies. And you're hoping for a dump.... Problems with the stomach? Maybe that is why during MtGox they pumped the price to more than the premium price they bought in then sold high and after the dump, they bought low again. |
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https://coin.dance/poliAs of today, 88% wants segwit. EC (BUcoin) has a bigger rejection rate than UASF, which is revealing. As we have seen with LTC, the price rises along with the segwit hashrate (and we'll see an ATH due BTC's inability to get to enjoy segwit, thus blocking LN development efforts, since segwit provides for full capacity LN and other features needed for proper payment channel functionality). A small amount of miners (how many really? Jihan Wu? and a couple other pools, no more than 5 guys) are blocking hundreds of people involved in BTC services, exchanges and so on. They also go against node majority. Segwit is officially held hostage by a tiny amount of miners with a hashrate monopoly, probably state-sponsored. Meanwhile, LTC will eat BTC's lunch as segwit activates. Then maybe that is the real purpose of Jihan Wu and his allies. They want to maintain the same existing conditions in Bitcoin because it is at a advantage to them while they want to change things up in Litecoin because there might be a profit motive for them to do it. This shows the real power the Chinese miners have. |
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Bitfinex says everything is fine and that they have enough funds to pay off all their customers. Is it because they have already made back the lost $65m that was hacked from their exchange?
How did they make it back so quickly and where did the money that large come from?
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I am waiting for that flash dump via Bitfinex so I could get some cheap coins.
Then you are taking the risk of being Goxxed. I remember a time there were Wall Street traders who were willing to buy the Gox coins for more than a 50% discount. I do not know what happened to them now or if they made a good deal or not. Check the wall observer thread. There were a few guys bent on sending money and I'm pretty sure at least two of them we're laughing how they would make 4 digits profit from that move with all the "panicking". It ended pretty bad. Actually it ended the worst way possible. Bitfinex is leading the prices right now and it is nearly 1300$ at the moment. This definitely smells like GOX to me. There are many sell walls on btc-e and bitstamp but they have to follow the leading price.
Considering that finex having many problems lately, I have to warn you guys. You might wanna keep some FIAT around nowadays.
4 days later: Bitfinex 1351 What do you mean? That all that is going on with Bitfinex is completely like what went on with MtGox? I believe not yet. There was a massive buying that catapulted the price of Bitcoin from a few hundred to over $1000. I hope we see it happen again.  |
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It won't have a large effect.
We have already gone through a situation like it, and we survived that too, so this time we'll have something to look back to and say "hey, last tme wasn't so bad".
A lot of people are already jumping ship and using kraken now or other exchanges.
It is clear that you are not one of the victims of MtGox. If you were you will not be posting something like that. You will be devastated that it is happening again and that now other people will go through what you have gone through because they think they can look back and say "hey, last time was not so bad". Try depositing all the Bitcoin you have in Bitfinex. |
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well according to them, they have enough assets to sell and pay all the existing customers in full. so the bankruptcy is even more unlikely to me. but if the bank doesn't solve it soon, these things won't get solved that easily or that fast. it can take months, at least 2 more months unless their bank stop messing around and solves the problem.
people should continue to withdraw and use that "one time fiat withdrawal" opportunity if bitfines allows them.
That is all "according to them", yes. How naive are you? Of course that is what they will tell everyone. They are doing everything they can to avoid a panic and they are doing a good job. But as soon as all the whales and the big traders have gotten everything they have out from Bitfinex that is when the truth starts coming out. It is happening just like Gox. I hope we also get the biggest pump in Bitcoin history with it. |
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Seriously, no one wishes to offer their comment or advice on this? This is a serious question. I'm looking for real options from those of you that are more educated int the consequence of a hard fork than I am.
What's the move here? What are our options? How much time do we have?
Thanks in advance.
Store your Bitcoins in a wallet that gives you the ability to "split" your coins. I heard Jaxx wallet gave its users that choice for ETH and ETC. Maybe they will do the same for BTC and BTU. This is wrong and stupid. Just ignore it. If you own bitcoins now and there's is a hard fork you now own the exact same amount of bitcoin A as you do bitcoin B. If you believe in one more, sell the other and go all in on one chain. There is no certain wallet that you need (I mean core... not some random third party app that no one's ever heard of). No, what I mean is Jaxx could offer a feature to protect your coins from replay attacks and end up truly receiving your BTU from the other chain. They did it with ETH and ETC, they could do it again with BTC and BTU. |
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It is not about Bitfinex anymore. Major bitcoin exchanges stopped accepting US dollar deposit as well.
They all claim that there is a problem with wired deposits and banking system.
This situation created fake demand for bitcoin, because people are buying BTC with the fiat money to withdraw it.
This is bad news. The lowest price that was said in this thread where Bitcoin might fall to is at $800. But if all major exchanges stopped fiat deposits and withdrawals, could the fall be lower than initially expected? Back to $500 perhaps? May be $800 or $900, but not $500. First of all, Bitfinex is not the largest Bitcoin exchange out there, nor it is the oldest one. And secondly, indications are that the ongoing issues are temporary. most people only see the surface. they see a topic using the word GOX and then remember hearing some distant thing about GOX running away but price going up before it then they think the same is happening here too. hence the $500 they never think about 1000 other differences of GOX and Bitfinex, or differences between 2011 and 2017! and these differences have already been said a hundred times. Yes but in their differences there are also similarities. The biggest sign that traders are leaving Bitfinex is the premium price of Bitcoin. That means everyone there is buying to withdraw in Bitcoin. How long can the exchange keep this up? They will have to block all BTC withdrawals soon to survive. |
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people can't get their money out by wire, so they buy btc and withdraw that. since everyone wants out apparently, btc will shoot to moon on bitfinex. symptom of worse problem usually, although bitfinex says nothing to worry about, nothing to see here.
Yes if this keeps going on then Bitfinex will have nothing in their exchange except useless fiat that they cannot move out from their banks. Did they really make the hacked funds back from their issued tokens? That was $65m stolen. Where did that amount come from in a short amount of time? |
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Seriously, no one wishes to offer their comment or advice on this? This is a serious question. I'm looking for real options from those of you that are more educated int the consequence of a hard fork than I am.
What's the move here? What are our options? How much time do we have?
Thanks in advance.
Store your Bitcoins in a wallet that gives you the ability to "split" your coins. I heard Jaxx wallet gave its users that choice for ETH and ETC. Maybe they will do the same for BTC and BTU. |
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opposing a view is different from shilling.
That is true. But opposing a view is also the favorite strategy of shills to use to derail the establishment, spread misinformation and get the less informed to start agreeing with the opposing side. For your information, I do not think you are a shill. If you are I do not care. I am learning from your posts and I try to get the others' feedback on them. |
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