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961  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 15, 2014, 02:26:48 PM
It seems to me that any actual text/messaging service that needs long term storage would be best tackled by a service provider.  

The service provider could charge useage fees in NXT, and would have its own parallel blockchain for its data.

The concept as I see it is basically outlined here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4257311#msg4257311

Just replace the idea of SMS provider with client messaging provider.
 

I like this too, the NXT block chain gets pruned to maintain performance but if you subscribe to one or more (for resilience) service providers your chain elements are stored in their copy and of course they still can't read them Smiley

If they are storing the whole block chain forever then they can also charge for non-subscribers who suddenly find they need to recover a transaction record or message.
962  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 15, 2014, 01:49:25 PM

This a storage function not a communication function.

All communication platforms have a storage function, some are in the client some are in the network.
A lot of supposedly secure communication is readable on the network servers that process it (authorities make it so)
Those that use client side encryption are difficult to replicate where you lose the client device unless certificates can be recovered etc.
If you can't reach the server that holds your message then you are screwed and if the company providing that server goes bust you are screwed.
if you use a google, microsoft, whatsapp you will be monitored, your ideas read, copied, stolen - prove it???

With NXT
the message is encrypted in the client but your passphrase unlocks it
it is unreadable anywhere except on a client that has the keys
the network of NXT nodes holds it so you can always get to it unless NXT ceases to exist.
no one can search, copy steal your ideas or communication.

You could also use arbitrary messages to communicate to yourself (sorry store) those secrets that you want to remember.
963  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 15, 2014, 01:32:55 PM

There are many secure messenger apps out there. Go check them first. I have to tell you that if you want to compete in this sector, you are in a very tough sport.

A lot of smart guys are doing these secure messaging.

I agree there are secure messaging apps, but how secure???
How many store the message securely in a network which is a permanent recoverable record (if you have the keys) of the messages.
964  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 15, 2014, 01:30:14 PM

So we should concentrate our efforts on an easy-to-use secure communication tool with not so low fees maybe.

I think so. The world is full of messaging tools, but I cannot think of any easily access file where the messages are permanent and verifiable that someone agreed to something or said something, i.e. you can't fake them, delete them, change them, if they are easy to use then people will find uses for such a thing - and this does not need to be cheap.
965  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 15, 2014, 01:14:29 PM
Illegal content.....that is a problem whether the fee is 1nxt or 10 nxt

True, but the magnitude of the problem may differ. We shouldn't just ignore it and hope it goes away.


That's what I am talking about. If there is no solution, all these apps and promotions is a waste of time.

should we shut down the internet too

With current blockchain and network capacity then yes spamming is a huge issue. But I doubt lowering fee will cause it unless someone plan to attack the network. I send my messages free via whatsapp, skype, yahoo mess, snap chat and a bunch of other apps. You can't compete by lowering the price with NXT messenger. It has to be a special type of message in the blockchain.

When the novelty wears off, no one is going to pay a dime to send a conversational message via NXT.

But people will pay to send a secure message via NXT so why aim it at mass conversational messaging, if NXT messages are confidential and secure then this is a differentiator that means you can charge more and the volume will be lower.
966  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 15, 2014, 12:19:46 PM
I always wondered what the image is supposed to represent?

The way we will store Nxt blockchain in the future - DNA.

Hmmm "Sir what currency would you like your child inoculated with?"  Shocked
967  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information VOTING WEIGHTS on: January 15, 2014, 11:26:02 AM

going to a size-of-wallet voting scheme is plain MEDIEVAL - sure this has been brought up here before, but how about this:

 the number or weights or votes each NXT account gets to cast is related to the ACTIVITY, ie number of transactions that the account generates / has generated over a certain period of time.



So DGEX will get 90% of the voting power? Roll Eyes

From the thread on NxtCrypto Foundation discussion - not seen gbeirn post it here so I thought i would - I think his analysis of 1 Account 1 Vote is spot on, if you had 500k NXT and you want to vote 250k times, you can but it will cost you 500k NXT to do it.

Quote from: gbeirn
Personally I think the most democratic way is 1 Account = 1 Vote, regardless of your wealth (amount of NXT). Sure someone could create multiple accounts to have more votes but since it costs NXT to send NXT to other accounts, you couldn't do this for long without going broke.

Imagine I have 10,000 NXT. I can't create 10,000 accounts. At most I could create 5,000. Since if I send 1NXT to 5,000 accounts it costs me 5,000 NXT in transaction fees just to do so. If I want those NXT all back in one account (to increase ability to forge) then I can create even less accounts since I will incur a transaction fee to send NXT from those dummy accounts back to my main account.

This can actually work well early on since it may help to distribute NXT even more.

Another way to prevent the creation of dummy voting accounts would be to have a rule that NXT must remain in an account for a certain number of blocks before a vote to be counted as a valid voting account. Or say for example if a vote comes up at block 45,000 for example, only accounts that have a balance as of block 45,000 are counted for voting.

I think the coolest part about the voting is that we can use the voting system to tweak the voting system as time goes on. We could come up with all sorts of complex algorithms in the future once we see what the NXT ecosystem looks like.  

Any ideas?

Edit: Or maybe even, 1 Account  = 1 Vote but it costs 1NXT per account to vote.
968  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 15, 2014, 11:21:22 AM

NXT with humanoid interference can not be perfect.

Pin

 Cheesy

ok, now we know that pinarello is the second account of CfB. Noone else says things like this... Cheesy

Or he has just been assimilated by the NXT Continuum
969  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: CaptChadd is very likely the owner of scryptasic.org scam on: January 15, 2014, 05:44:41 AM
MWAHAHAHA

Thank you @ScryptAsic2

http://whois.domaintools.com/pcgamekeysgiveaway.com


Registry Admin ID:
Admin Name: David Spanton
Admin Organization:
Admin Street: 5 West End Road
Admin City: Southampton
Admin State/Province: HAM
Admin Postal Code: SO18 6RW
Admin Country: GB
Admin Phone: +44.1980755255
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax:
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email:


All the info about scammer, including his home address and phone number.

You should return us our fairly invested money, Captain Shit.



This address is slightly incorrect as per the 2013 Electoral Roll, and he's only been there 1 year.

Flat 5
Fir Tree court
Southampton SO18 6RW
970  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: CaptChadd is very likely the owner of scryptasic.org scam on: January 14, 2014, 08:47:54 AM
If there is any doubt about CaptChadd/Scott Davenro/David Spanton - here is his twitter profile + picture  Huh

Also if this is the same person he might have previous http://www.thefreelibrary.com/BRITAIN'S+BIGGEST+TICKET+SCAMS.-a0316117328

Which means hopefully the police should take this seriously....

If anyone is thinking of civil action I might be willing to join in.

Charity worker - thats a good one...

971  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 13, 2014, 08:51:27 PM


You must have at least 30 XRP to submit an order.

I have 29.99, lol

I think ripple doesnt want me to trade there Smiley

If you want a bit extra to put you over the reserve - send me your wallet address,
972  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 13, 2014, 04:57:57 PM
The price at dgex is almost the same now like at CfBdex Smiley

There are a lot of good news coming out today and the price still falls...

Fast, reliable and no fees...

973  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 13, 2014, 04:54:54 PM
1BTC from 168La15SRLLaJBz6zUrxxyDQXU6cnzoHS2 NXT to 3323287590575539129

Tx: 16273423119901696661

Received with thanks Smiley
974  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 13, 2014, 12:50:32 PM
is it minus 95% or minus 5% from the dgex price?

minus 5%.

DGEX has consistently fallen and fallen just over 5% in last 24h - would you go to "minus 10%" which would give a price of 0.000039?
975  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 12, 2014, 01:11:20 AM
I just posted a proposal to fix the account number typo-problem over at the official forums:
https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=524 <- making NXT account numbers awesome!

What do you think about that?
I think this is a great idea and I will support including it in the official client.


Apologies if I posted this already - why can't we just add a check digit instead of changing the account number to alphabetti-spaghetti, not perfect but i would catch the majority of errors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhn_algorithm

cause if you look at two strings: DatS7 and opKrN you instantly see the difference, the lesser the alphabet, the less difference is visible on two words over that alphabet...

I agree but the current proposal is not restricted to alphanumerics based on the examples I tried, it gets special characters like #$ etc which makes things harder especially on a smart phone.

Anyway I agree with xyzzyx that this is low level stuff and once its stored then we will use pin access, although I assume we would load the ECC version of the account number into the phone with a QR scan so I guess it really doesn't matter - the important thing is the account gets set correctly.
976  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 12, 2014, 12:32:43 AM
I just posted a proposal to fix the account number typo-problem over at the official forums:
https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=524 <- making NXT account numbers awesome!

What do you think about that?
I think this is a great idea and I will support including it in the official client.


Apologies if I posted this already - why can't we just add a check digit instead of changing the account number to alphabetti-spaghetti, not perfect but i would catch the majority of errors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhn_algorithm

I was originally thinking around the same lines.  I was playing around with a modified Luhn code that used a check character rather than a digit since some account numbers without a check digit would pass the Luhn check.  It was easier to see that 1234567A was a checked code (for the naked account number 1234567), rather than 12345671, for example, and it could still be easily used without the check character for clients that didn't support the Luhn check.

The reason I was looking at a modified Luhn, rather than a CRC or the Verhoeff algorithm, was that the check could be calculated by hand, or mentally with a little practice.

However, with a little reflection, I think ricot's proposal is much better.  It has error correction built in, which is a huge plus.



I can see the benefits of ECC but it generates something that in my humble view is even harder to get right - I've tried a few account numbers in his useful website - yes its balanced by error correction but I don't think its solving usability.
977  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 11, 2014, 11:39:29 PM
I just posted a proposal to fix the account number typo-problem over at the official forums:
https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=524 <- making NXT account numbers awesome!

What do you think about that?
I think this is a great idea and I will support including it in the official client.


Apologies if I posted this already - why can't we just add a check digit instead of changing the account number to alphabetti-spaghetti, not perfect but i would catch the majority of errors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhn_algorithm
978  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 11, 2014, 11:31:18 PM

As long as we are establishing some standardized user-friendly methodology here for the non-geek common man or woman, I'd like to go ahead and document in the forum another idea I've had along this line.  

If NXT is going to succeed, it is going to succeed because the average person worldwide starts using NXT via their cellphone.  yes

Let me say that again.

If NXT is going to succeed, it is going to succeed because the average person worldwide starts using NXT via their cellphone.

The last thing a person with a cellphone is going to do is sit there and type in a 50 digit uppercase-lowercase password to buy a candy bar with NXT.  yes

Let me say that again.

The last thing a person with a cellphone is going to do is sit there and type in a 50 digit uppercase-lowercase password to buy a candy bar with NXT.  

So at some point between the geeks dreaming this stuff up and the average joe using it, there is going to be the creation of a user-friendly surrogate password method that is easier to use, just like the user-friendly surrogate account number method being brilliantly addressed by this Reed Solomon thread.

My proposed solution is a centralized (gasp - ha ha ha) trusted authority (just like the centralized trusted authority that manufactures and mails credit cards today) that manufactures sets of matching metal medallions sold in a tamperproof blister pack to everyday average people.  They can buy them at the convenience store next to the cigarettes and the condoms.   Heck, we might even give them away for free.  Opening this blister pack lets them instantly create a NXT account on their cellphone.

As an aside, this person has just opened an NXT bank account at the same time he bought those condoms.  Opening a bank account is a big deal and getting harder and harder for more and more people to do.   Bank accounts in a box for the lower middle class are a booming business - see "Bluebird" from AmEx and Walmart here in America: https://www.bluebird.com/?SOLID=BBSEMITS .  There's still time for NXT to get in this game on the ground level...

Anyway, on these NXT metal medallions are QR codes purchasers scan with their phone.

Scanning the first medallion QR brings up an NXT client install package from Google Play or the Apple App store.  The user runs this.

Once the client is installed on the phone, the user runs the NXT client for the first time and scans the second metal medallion QR.  This loads the fresh client with a user account code - the same 20 character user code discussed above, which is also stamped on the back of the second medallion in human readable form.

The user puts the third NXT metal medallion on their keychain along with their key to their house / apartment and the key to their car.  (Or in Africa, the padlock to their bicycle.  Whatever).  This medallion has a QR code containing the 50 character passcode for the account they've loaded in their cellphone.  When they want to buy that candy bar, they scan the vendor's account medallion QR, then they scan their passcode medallion QR on their keychain.  Boom.  They've bought a candy bar, NXT has conquered the world.

They lose their cellphone, no problem, the passcode medallion is still on their keychain and their NXT is safe.  When they get a new cellphone, they rescan their original two medallions and they are back back up and running as an NXT user.

They lose their keys, or a purse containing both their cellphone and their keys, they've got a problem.  Whoever finds the keychain can use the medallion on the keychain to empty their NXT account once they read / decode its QR code and get to a desktop computer with a NXT client - or enter a home they're not supposed to be in, or steal a vehicle, or run up a tab on a stolen credit card.  Hey, it's a bitch to lose your keys or purse.

This is why when they bought the original blister pack in the convenience store, there was a second passcode medallion in it.  They have stored this second passcode medallion along with the user account number medallion in the safety of a home hiding place.   If they lose their keychain or purse, along with changing the locks on their home or canceling their credit card, they have to go to the convenience store and buy another NXT blister pack with a new set of NXT medallions.   They run the "emergency total funds transfer" option on their cellphone client by scanning first the original spare passcode medallion, then the replacement user account medallion.  As long as they do this before a bandit finds and uses their lost keychain passcode medallion, they're OK.  Hey, that's better than losing the cash in their purse - it's gone instantly!  Use NXT instead of cash, common folks, it's cheaper than a credit card (psst - "cash back" is a total scam!!!) and unlike cash you've got a shot at transferring NXT to safety if it's lost or stolen!

People will buy into this scenario because it so closely matches what their current situation is on using and protecting their credit cards, which is a widely understood protocol.  The big difference is that credit card companies will not hold them liable for losses on a stolen credit card - those losses are passed on to all credit card users in the form of higher fees and interest rates.  With NXT, you are all on your own, and nothing can change that.  Better hope you scan a new medallion to transfer your funds to safety before somebody else scans your lost or stolen medallion and takes all your NXT.

This whole scenario depends on a centralized (boo! hiss!) trusted source of the metal medallions - jut like there is currently a central trusted authority that manufactures and mails valid credit cards that get activated over the phone.  That manufacturer has got to have iron clad security ensuring that only one set of medallions are produced that go into one blister pack, with no duplicates or records of what passcodes were generated.   And for this scheme to work, people buying the blister packs on the street (the 50-90% of people in the world who aren't going to sit down in front of a computer and generate their own 50 character passcode in a random and secure manner) have got to trust that.

Which leads to the whole subject of scammers counterfeiting the blister packs and monitoring accounts they've created until somebody loads it with NXT for them to steal.   I don't have all the answers, here.  I think the correct answer is that the success and utility and usefulness of the mobile phone NXT system is so great overcomes the distraction of the inevitable but hopefully small vultures that prey on its outskirts and perimeter.  [EDITED TO ADD: I guess an obvious measure to counterfeiting medallions would be for an offical client downloaded from a trusted source like Apple APP Store or Google Play to verify that a loaded user account number was on a pre-authorized list coordinated with the medallion manufacturer.  Then you "only" have to monitor the App Store or Google Play to see that no rouge clients got uploaded as part of a fake medallion scam...]

So - metal NXT medallions sold in blisterpacks to the 50-90% of the world with a cellphone who will never sit down at a computer and create their own 50 character passcode securely and randomly.  That's my concept.  If you think it's unworkable, then I ask you:

How can people with cellphones buy a candy bar with NXT?

The pass codes medallions will be copied and when the customer uses them the retailer who copied them will steal the NXT.
Or family, friends, work colleagues will do this.

I agree with your thoughts but not the implementation, this suggestion below is rough, not perfect, and is similar to some of the mobile money implementations in existence - which while they don't use digital currencies they do create a 3DES key for control and access to funds.

The user downloads an app from the app store.
The user selects a pin for the app.
The app generates a passcode for a nxt account - using an algorithm - I would use a recoverable multi-part code - possibly the sim number or IMEI, the phone number and the pin (the app can hash it - the point is its hard to replicate and results in strong passwords but can be recovered)

Reason for this...
The user knows the pin, the network knows the phone number and the sim number / IMEI - the SIM/IMEI numbers are never re-used and globally unique
It also means if the user loses the phone then using phone company records (if they don't know the sim number) and a recover option on the app which knows the passcode algorithm the NXT can be recovered.
To steal something someone would need to know all parts of the code.

For an advanced user you could allow them to store their own strong passcode with a warning they need to keep a copy.

Access to the NXT account would be via the PIN and the customer would be advised to add a phone pin lock also you can add wipe on 5 fails option in case of brute force attack on the pin - which is usually enough to protect it.

To support the emerging market where the majority of phones are non-smart - i.e. only SMS and USSD services then either you don't go there or you need an STK sim application or a USSD gateway application which users can access, which would do the registration etc - this can be done and is in place for volume e-money applications today - you would need cooperation of the phone company to some degree.

Merchant transactions are tough - person to person transfers can have some lag, BTC is ludicrous but when you have a queue of customers in a shop even 10s of seconds are an issue for the shopkeeper. Also you need to have a clear app transaction model between the merchant and the customer and identity transfer using a method which is universally available and there are lots of places in the world which don't have electronic tills, scanners or readers. So a merchant transaction is subtly different from a normal P2P transaction - this is too long to articulate here but there are some card-less models in Africa which are being quite successful much to VISA/MCard/Googles annoyance.
979  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 11, 2014, 10:55:57 PM

nxt system should have a validation function to verify the account is available.

e.g:
acct: 209832084023840384023
MD5 & SHA Checksum: DfwSgeH

so the new account: DfwSgeH-209832084023840384023

Check the MD5 or SHA to verify the account available..

thanks for this example coolfish,
could you explain further please how this checksum approach can verify account available?

it just a simple example.

acct: 209832084023840384023
MD5 & SHA Checksum: DfwSgeH    // from MD5("accountid")

so the new account: DfwSgeH-209832084023840384023  // from  substr(MD5("accountid"),6)+ "- accountid"

//substr(MD5("209832084023840384023"),6)=="DfwSgeH"
if( substr(MD5("209832084023840384023"),6)==substr("DfwSgeH-209832084023840384023",6) ) it is available..
else unavailable.

Each new account is password and userid combination : password-userid

Please see my thread about that in the other forum: https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=524
We can do a lot better than merely detecting if the user made an error. With the method presented there, we can correct what the user typed. - That's 2nd gen. :p

thx, ricot,

ok, understood. usefull for users typing in account numbers but this doesn't answer my question.
this doesn't help to prevent sending funds to hiberNXT, or does it and if, could you please explain how?

as said, i am currently on this, therefore i would like to understand the whole procedure.
from what i see the main problem is to copy or even type a number to send funds to
which is not the intended number and therefore the funds are lost in hiberNXT.

is this what we are talking about?


In the days when computers were simple - people used simple solutions - why can't we just add a check digit - will catch most mistakes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhn_algorithm
980  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information on: January 09, 2014, 02:50:04 PM
I hope there are NO outgoing transactions for accounts with negative NXT!!!   Cheesy

Sorry, but there are already 72 outgoing transactions from an account with negative balance. Cheesy

If I ever invent the Time Machine... you BEST believe there will be 73!!!   Grin

I'm off to audition for a part in the NXT episode of Dr Who.
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