NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[CIYAM]

so what do you suggest we do to fix this problem.

Perhaps this is the kind of thing that the voting system could be used to address.

If some AMs become too controversial then a vote would decide on their removal?

(my guess is AMs that contain controversial information will probably be encrypted anyway)

[utopianfuture]

With current blockchain and network capacity then yes spamming is a huge issue. But I doubt lowering fee will cause it unless someone plan to attack the network. I send my messages free via whatsapp, skype, yahoo mess, snap chat and a bunch of other apps. You can't compete by lowering the price with NXT messenger. It has to be a special type of message in the blockchain.

When the novelty wears off, no one is going to pay a dime to send a conversational message via NXT.

Secure communications seems like a good selling point....as non of the above APP's do that.

NOTE: This is an already released feature the genie is out of the bottle.....i;m just arguing to lower the msg fee....thats all.

EDIT: That would be foolish to suggest Nxt could compete with whatsapp....but there are a lot of people in this world who would use Nxt for secure communications.

Look like whatsapp would be much more secure than NXT's messenger in a foreseeable future. Your messages are always out in the public, inside the blockchain and we don't even

have encryption yet. Unless you do something about it first, it won't be a secure communication.

[IveBeenBit]

Also, people like to communicate.
They love to send people chatter.

Give them the ability to do so, and I bet you that transactions will take off.
And Nxt is about transactions.

There is a feature that is usuable, so make it easy and cheap to use.
That's all I am saying.

Can someone explain to me what advantages AM offers that people can't get with SMS, or Google chat, Facebook chat, and other stuff like that?

[utopianfuture]

Illegal content.....that is a problem whether the fee is 1nxt or 10 nxt

True, but the magnitude of the problem may differ. We shouldn't just ignore it and hope it goes away.

That's what I am talking about. If there is no solution, all these apps and promotions is a waste of time.

should we shut down the internet too

With current blockchain and network capacity then yes spamming is a huge issue. But I doubt lowering fee will cause it unless someone plan to attack the network. I send my messages free via whatsapp, skype, yahoo mess, snap chat and a bunch of other apps. You can't compete by lowering the price with NXT messenger. It has to be a special type of message in the blockchain.

When the novelty wears off, no one is going to pay a dime to send a conversational message via NXT.

But people will pay to send a secure message via NXT so why aim it at mass conversational messaging, if NXT messages are confidential and secure then this is a differentiator that means you can charge more and the volume will be lower.

There are many secure messenger apps out there. Go check them first. I have to tell you that if you want to compete in this sector, you are in a very tough sport.

A lot of smart guys are doing these secure messaging.

[BitcoinForumator]

we have discussed this issue on previous on occasions...and i'm sure it will be solved but it's the same problem the internet has....i'm not smart enough to suggest any solutions for this one.

It's a different problem. With the general Internet, when illegal content springs up it can generally be dealt with (speed & mechanisms dependent on the type of content), and the rest of the Internet chugs along just fine. Systems that try to combat that (tor etc) do so with sophisticated techniques, and it's a cat & mouse game against the authorities.

Fact is, we are hosting a blockchain that allows arbitrary data to be stored in it, with no mechanism to remove it, and hoping that people won't take advantage of that in a way that harms us. Is that wise?

+1 Don't overestimate the load our blockchain can take as we may end up with 10G data file pretty soon. One reason Bitcoin devs don't want to implement any other features     because Bitcoin already reaches the 10G blockchain and almost maximum bandwith by doing only transaction processing. So now they decided to be a payment specialist only.

When we have asset exchange, plus messenger, voting etc and pyamnet system. We may do 10X the load Bitcoin is taking right now. Need to think ahead.

Ok so we can't implement all these features because of blockchain bloat. But didn't we tout these as the advantages and the reason NXT is far ahead of Bitcoin and now the bloat is the reason it won't be implemented? Huh?

[bitcoinpaul]

Illegal content.....that is a problem whether the fee is 1nxt or 10 nxt

True, but the magnitude of the problem may differ. We shouldn't just ignore it and hope it goes away.

That's what I am talking about. If there is no solution, all these apps and promotions is a waste of time.

should we shut down the internet too

With current blockchain and network capacity then yes spamming is a huge issue. But I doubt lowering fee will cause it unless someone plan to attack the network. I send my messages free via whatsapp, skype, yahoo mess, snap chat and a bunch of other apps. You can't compete by lowering the price with NXT messenger. It has to be a special type of message in the blockchain.

When the novelty wears off, no one is going to pay a dime to send a conversational message via NXT.

But people will pay to send a secure message via NXT so why aim it at mass conversational messaging, if NXT messages are confidential and secure then this is a differentiator that means you can charge more and the volume will be lower.

So we should concentrate our efforts on an easy-to-use secure communication tool within the nxt system with not so low fees maybe. But this shouldn't be our big marketing thing, i guess.

[landomata]

Illegal content.....that is a problem whether the fee is 1nxt or 10 nxt

True, but the magnitude of the problem may differ. We shouldn't just ignore it and hope it goes away.

That's what I am talking about. If there is no solution, all these apps and promotions is a waste of time.

should we shut down the internet too

With current blockchain and network capacity then yes spamming is a huge issue. But I doubt lowering fee will cause it unless someone plan to attack the network. I send my messages free via whatsapp, skype, yahoo mess, snap chat and a bunch of other apps. You can't compete by lowering the price with NXT messenger. It has to be a special type of message in the blockchain.

When the novelty wears off, no one is going to pay a dime to send a conversational message via NXT.

But people will pay to send a secure message via NXT so why aim it at mass conversational messaging, if NXT messages are confidential and secure then this is a differentiator that means you can charge more and the volume will be lower.

There are many secure messenger apps out there. Go check them first. I have to tell you that if you want to compete in this sector, you are in a very tough sport.

A lot of smart guys are doing these secure messaging.

I have looked into this....there are many but on desktops/ web browsers.....there is really not a leading smartphone app yet............ESPECIALLY ON IPHONE....many IPHONE owners feel a little insecure with the current security situation.

[bitcoinpaul]

I have looked into this....there are many but on desktops/browers.....there is really not a leading smartphone app yet............ESPECIALLY ON IPHONE....many IPHONE owners feel a little insecure with the current security situation.

Well, it should be all but free if you want to address mass market.

[chanc3r]

So we should concentrate our efforts on an easy-to-use secure communication tool with not so low fees maybe.

I think so. The world is full of messaging tools, but I cannot think of any easily access file where the messages are permanent and verifiable that someone agreed to something or said something, i.e. you can't fake them, delete them, change them, if they are easy to use then people will find uses for such a thing - and this does not need to be cheap.

[utopianfuture]

we have discussed this issue on previous on occasions...and i'm sure it will be solved but it's the same problem the internet has....i'm not smart enough to suggest any solutions for this one.

It's a different problem. With the general Internet, when illegal content springs up it can generally be dealt with (speed & mechanisms dependent on the type of content), and the rest of the Internet chugs along just fine. Systems that try to combat that (tor etc) do so with sophisticated techniques, and it's a cat & mouse game against the authorities.

Fact is, we are hosting a blockchain that allows arbitrary data to be stored in it, with no mechanism to remove it, and hoping that people won't take advantage of that in a way that harms us. Is that wise?

+1 Don't overestimate the load our blockchain can take as we may end up with 10G data file pretty soon. One reason Bitcoin devs don't want to implement any other features     because Bitcoin already reaches the 10G blockchain and almost maximum bandwith by doing only transaction processing. So now they decided to be a payment specialist only.

When we have asset exchange, plus messenger, voting etc and pyamnet system. We may do 10X the load Bitcoin is taking right now. Need to think ahead.

Ok so we can't implement all these features because of blockchain bloat. But didn't we tout these as the advantages and the reason NXT is far ahead of Bitcoin and now the bloat is the reason it won't be implemented? Huh?

Just use common logic. Features are good. We love features but don't kid yourself that you can get a fee lunch.

[landomata]

I have looked into this....there are many but on desktops/browers.....there is really not a leading smartphone app yet............ESPECIALLY ON IPHONE....many IPHONE owners feel a little insecure with the current security situation.

Well, it should be all but free if you want to address mass market.

Secure is our best selling point....if someone doesn;t want security they will never use our app.

[davethetrousers]

This just in:



Firing up a node on it as soon as I am ready.

[utopianfuture]

So we should concentrate our efforts on an easy-to-use secure communication tool with not so low fees maybe.

I think so. The world is full of messaging tools, but I cannot think of any easily access file where the messages are permanent and verifiable that someone agreed to something or said something, i.e. you can't fake them, delete them, change them, if they are easy to use then people will find uses for such a thing - and this does not need to be cheap.

This is more like contract agreements etc. than simple messaging. For these types of things we don't need to lower fee.

[BitcoinForumator]

we have discussed this issue on previous on occasions...and i'm sure it will be solved but it's the same problem the internet has....i'm not smart enough to suggest any solutions for this one.

It's a different problem. With the general Internet, when illegal content springs up it can generally be dealt with (speed & mechanisms dependent on the type of content), and the rest of the Internet chugs along just fine. Systems that try to combat that (tor etc) do so with sophisticated techniques, and it's a cat & mouse game against the authorities.

Fact is, we are hosting a blockchain that allows arbitrary data to be stored in it, with no mechanism to remove it, and hoping that people won't take advantage of that in a way that harms us. Is that wise?

+1 Don't overestimate the load our blockchain can take as we may end up with 10G data file pretty soon. One reason Bitcoin devs don't want to implement any other features     because Bitcoin already reaches the 10G blockchain and almost maximum bandwith by doing only transaction processing. So now they decided to be a payment specialist only.

When we have asset exchange, plus messenger, voting etc and pyamnet system. We may do 10X the load Bitcoin is taking right now. Need to think ahead.

Ok so we can't implement all these features because of blockchain bloat. But didn't we tout these as the advantages and the reason NXT is far ahead of Bitcoin and now the bloat is the reason it won't be implemented? Huh?

Just use common logic. Features are good. We love features but don't kid yourself that you can get a fee lunch.

Fee lunch? I don't care about fees. It was promised that these features would be implemented with no mention of the blockchain size being a big road block. It's news to me what you just said.

[mkmen]

I don't think the main purpose of Arbitrary Messages is IM function, hence the name.

Problem with storing unwanted data could be perhaps handled at the client side - client won't store and relay AM.

A good thing with AM would be TTL (time to live) option with some max value.

[chanc3r]

There are many secure messenger apps out there. Go check them first. I have to tell you that if you want to compete in this sector, you are in a very tough sport.

A lot of smart guys are doing these secure messaging.

I agree there are secure messaging apps, but how secure???
How many store the message securely in a network which is a permanent recoverable record (if you have the keys) of the messages.

[landomata]

A good thing with AM would be TTL (time to live) option with some max value.

good idea

[bitcoinpaul]

How many store the message securely in a network which is a permanent recoverable record (if you have the keys) of the messages.

secure and permanent message could be the selling point.

edit: lol

[utopianfuture]

There are many secure messenger apps out there. Go check them first. I have to tell you that if you want to compete in this sector, you are in a very tough sport.

A lot of smart guys are doing these secure messaging.

I agree there are secure messaging apps, but how secure???
How many store the message securely in a network which is a permanent recoverable record (if you have the keys) of the messages.

What you describe is more like a storage function than a communication function. and yes there is an advantage to store contracts on the blockchain.

[utopianfuture]

How many store the message securely in a network which is a permanent recoverable record (if you have the keys) of the messages.

secure and permanent message could be the selling point.

edit: lol

This a storage function not a communication function.