1000 TPS is a theoretical number, in fact I'd wager that it would take at least 2 (possible more) years to have that many transactions per second. So no, you won't need 300GB available (per month).
The max transaction is 255 per block(per minute),right? so I didnot catch clearly what is mean of 1000 TPS. We have to remind ourself that the POSSIBILITY of 1000TPS brings us to 1000TPS in a few years. If we now state "not possible", we lose one feature. What do you mean with 4.25 tps to 1000 tps?
One of the killer features of Nxt is ability to process transactions at VISA rate (thousands per second). Btw, any ideas how much the price will rise after VCs realize that Nxt is able to process 1000+ tps? 10x is min, imho. 100x-1000x is more likely...
There have been occasional hints by CfB of incremental steps to improve the capacity of NXT by making the number of bytes encapsulating a transaction smaller (going from JSON to binary with a target of 128 bytes per transaction) so a block could hold more transactions, synchronizing the timing of blocks ("time warp"), and speeding up the rate at which NXT blocks were produced. The problem of block chain bloat has not been discussed by the core devs and remains a future problem to achieving this stated capability. In my opinion, solving the block chain bloat ( by reforging a new genesis block around every 1500 blocks) is THE problem facing future expansion of NXT. But: Blockchain pruning / minimization is for survival.
U should undestand that everything is in ur own hands. Pruning is not a rocket science. Just make a snapshot at some block height and use it as Genesis Block 2. Once the development committee membership has been finalized and they are in control of 3M NXT from the unclaimed funds currently held by CfB, I will lobby vigorously for them to immediately hire a programmer to focus exclusively on block chain bloat shrinkage and real time genesis block forging. This is how we take the future of NXT into our own hands as a community. This is too important to just throw a bounty up and wait for somebody to wander by and say they'll do it. Ideally, such a hired programmer should integrate ASAP with JLP's ongoing efforts under a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) and not wait for open source release in 60 days. We need to be working on block chain bloat NOW. We don't have to sit around wailing while the price of NXT slowly sags. We can take action NOW to make NXT the premiere cryptocurrency on the planet. Once we crack the "not-rocket-science" nut of real-time genesis block reforging, we will have created all the components necessary to set up a 1000 TPS testnet that we can demonstrate to the world. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4964910;topicseen#msg4964910https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4966259;topicseen#msg4966259And with a functional 1000 TPD demonstration testbed in place to demo at will to media, venture capitalists, and critics, NXT WILL GO TO THE MOON. +1 |
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so the real question is satoshi ==bcnext??
nope, a few years ago bcnext said he doesn't use C Do u have the link? I dont want to exploit his identity  Hasn't BCNext only been operating under that name for a few months? Do you know who he is then? |
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you know guys. we could cut out the dollar by tying our main token that we trade with to something extremely liquid but lacking other properties of money. the nxt token representation of the object will give it its strong money characteristics and the high liquidity of the item its tied to could give a stable and recognizable price.
so just as an offhand example, the basic pricing could be done by having the main medium of exchange be a token that represents 1 egg. say i am an egg farmer, i issue 1 million grade a egg colored tokens. the nxt/egg cross becomes the deepest and most liquid token in the market and so then nxt becomes priced in eggs. if you want to know what the value of a nxt is in dollars then you go to the supermarket and check out the price of eggs and just do the conversion. if you want eggs than you just trade 1 token for 1 egg to the egg farmer.
eggs probably bag example. ill try to think of something better.
Don't see how this should convert to real egg prices? If we cut out the dollar and the supermarket only accepts dollars then there's no link between real eggs and nxt eggs. Supermarket should accept NXTs then we get the price real. Apparently BTC China is using vouchers. http://www.cryptonews.biz/btc-china-selling-vouchers-on-chinese-auction-site/http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1tnf8e/btcchina_adds_a_fundingwithdrawal_option_btcc/ |
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Someone should build a Nxt equivalent of this: Hey guys...I just if we could get this for NXT, that would be the kickstart... http://all4btc.com/ |
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Eigentümlich frei is a libertarian monthly print magazine , with a circulation of about 6,000 copies. The online edition ( www.ef -magazin.de ) is clicked by 300,000 readers a month. Readers are especially educated men younger to middle-aged , who are followers of the Austrian Economics and the current money system are critical . I find an interesting target group for Nxt . The media data can be found here: http://ef-magazin.de/media/assets/EF_Mediadaten_kompakt.pdfHow should the marketing look like? I would prefer the online edition and indeed a large banner 200x400 pixels. Take a look here right how it looks like : http://www.ef-magazin.de/Cost: To start times 1 month I would propose . This will cost € 386.75 inclusive of VAT In addition, we would have a nice set of meaningful banner in 200x400 pixel format (ie portrait) Unfortunately, I 'm not good in such things, can somebode help out her? Cax? How to finance : I try to get the Nxt marketing budget once. We need about 9200 Nxt . I would be great to get, 10.000 Nxt , so the one who created the banner , also gets something . What is your opinion about this? salsacz: If I get green lights from the marketing fund I would start here and manage everything. Just tell we if you would be fine to donate 10k of the Nxt Marketing found for this!I think it would be worth also trying to get an article on the online edition. This would probably have greater impact than paid advertising. Especially if we wait until we have a clear idea about implementing ZeroCash (as NxtCash) on Nxt. |
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Hm, that's assuming the merchant keeps those accounts empty right? I think a workaround would be that as long as the merchant plans to use that account for his customers, it should never be empty (he asks the client to keep at least 0.01 NXT in there). If the client empties out his account, then the merchant simply generates a new one for the client to use next time and tells him to not use the old one because the client emptied it out.
I think we should seriously consider forcing this behavior so we can prune public keys of accounts with no balance and no aliases What if someone creates a new account just before a pruning? It would be frustrating to have it deleted before getting a chance to send Nxt to it. |
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NxtChg, we want you here. Please stay. +1 +2. Good post Zahlen. Better PM him in case he's stopped reading this thread. |
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0.25 Passion_ltc
0.01 landomata
0.1 CIYAM Open
0.1 longzai1988
0.1 LiQio
0.1 pinarello
0.01 minusbalancer
0.1 TwinWinNerD
0.1 BitcoinForumator
0.1 grex
0.1 bitcoinpaul
0.01 smaragda
0.01 mthcl
0.05 Jack Needles
0.1 gimre
0.001 Intel
0.01 Hegemon
0.1 lyynx
0.1 voldemort628
0.01 Ezravdb
0.1 Noltev
0.01 fmiboy
0.1 bidjl29
0.1 abuelau
0.1 seek4dream
0.1 wesleyh
0.1 achimsmile
0.1 Sebastien256
0.01 rriky92
FYI, compiling votes. Here's what I've got from the thread so far. Some not explicit (ie: +1 comment) taken as valid vote.
(Average = 0.0752)
sorry been at work and looking after sick wife my vote for trans fees 0.1 0.1 as well for me. |
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One thing is for sure a Turing-Complete Nxt would have much more marketing WOW than 1000 TPS Nxt.
I think everyone can clearly see that fact with Ethereum.
You cannot be serious with this statement. What percentage of people have even heard the phrase "Turing-Complete"? What percentage of people hate standing around waiting for that little machine to spit out their Visa slip? +1 rickyjames |
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Just want to catch on the discussion we had this afternoon about features and target audience for nxt.
1. (Possible) Features:
- TF for instant transactions
- TF + punishment against 50% attacks (correct?)
- no bloated blockchain
- energy friendly crypto
- mobile friendly crypto
- easy to add new features
- many many TPS
- parallel blockchains
- blockchain shrinking
- decentralized exchange
- colored coins
- decentralized voting/opiniongrabber
- decentralized AM (data storage, link storage (eg torrents), encrypted messaging, ...)
- dividend payouts (all fees per block) for everyone instead of mining of the few with lots of power
- Turing capability
- smart contracts
- anonymous transactions
- SMS gateway
2. Today it was clear that the nxt community isn't sure yet, which features are the most important ones, which could be ignored in favor of other features (some exclude each other), and who the target audience is. Would it be easier if we knew plan 2 and 3 from BCNext? I don't know. But regardless of BCNext's plans, we should discuss this topic in the community: which is our target audience now, next months and in one year? Does this depend on the features we implement or does the features depend on the audience we want to tackle? The answer is clear (or is nxt just fundamental research?) That's why we should discuss this.
3. Some thoughts on some features and their implications:
- TF was and is our key ingredient in nxt. I have no clue at which state it is right now, who will develop all the core ingredients of TF (JL?) and how important it will be in one year
- bloated blockchain: although I was quite shocked about today's statements about the size of the blockchain, I see it more clearly now. First of all I think it is still bad because solar powered RaspberryPis and AndroidTV sticks will not work for securing the nxt network in the future, IF we will get to a large TPS. The idea of thousands of raspberrypis working and securing nxt is dead. That's really sad because it was a really nice idea, especially marketing wise. Otherwise, I came to the conclusion that our chain should currently be measured with the same transaction amount as bitcoin has right now. And then, our block chain is cute and tiny.
- we are still very energy friendly, but the loss of raspberrypis in the future is a slap in the marketing face
- with lightweight clients, we are able to use nxt on every smartphone. BUT is this different and superior to BTC if we can’t actually forge with our phone? (Leasing forge power is not the same since we are not really part of the nxt network with the phone). When we implement block shrinking and parallel blockchains, we could shovel weight of the important transaction chain which means smartphones and raspberrypis could work longer for nxt (until how many TPS? I have one clue)
- SMS gateway (bounty by CfB) must be developed (eg Africa is using SMS as some sort of currency). This would be a really nice feature, especially for marketing
- do we need turing stuff? if we have the resources to develop this (i don’t want CfB to waste his energy if this is a nice, but not a must have feature or if this feature would make some other features impossible (like high TPS or no bloated blockchain)), let’s do it. it is nice marketing also.
- High and fast TPS is important for a special target audience (professionals like people relying on VISA). It was advertised big since the beginning. if we are able to keep this promise, then we must do this. or we also should look at the possibility of hight TPS if we implement other features which might interfere with hight TPS.
- anonymous transactions is a freaking HUGE opportunity. if we can tackle this, then, absolutely, let’s do it.
- decentralized exchange and colored coins are a must.
- CfB states many times that it is easy to implement new features in nxt. I am no dev and just have to believe him. It should always be easy so nxt can adapt to new ideas and technologies.
some features are implemented, some are discussed, and some are plain ideas. We should discuss where nxt is heading to get a clear view what should be implemented in the next months. We should discuss all ideas and get an overview WHO will develop which services or features. And we should make a clear distinction between service providers (which uses nxt) and nxt features (which build nxt). and we should always be aware of paradox decisions (like 1000000TPS and mini blockchain for example). Now I have no clue who is responsible for what. I have a fear that many things just don’t get done because of diffusion of responsibility (Google it). I hope i’m wrong.
Maybe I forgot many major things, but it is a starting point.
-
All the written stuff above could be total bullshit, because I'm no programmer and have difficulties to keep up with all the stuff what's going on in the nxt ecosystem.
I sincerely hope that I get some comments from devs, idea makers, marketers, ... And I hope we get a discussion started about target audience, features and what is the meaning of nxt.
Please respond (think about diffusion of responsibility if you don’t want to click “reply”).
tl;dr invest in doge.
Thanks for the great summary! From my "average investor" point of view, I believe high and fast TPS will be the one thing that most dramatically sets Nxt apart from the competition. Once it becomes clear to the average investor that Nxt can take on not just Bitcoin, but Visa as well, this one fact will be become the main force to drive widespread adoption. This is something that everyone can understand immediately, without the need for complex explanations and examples of how it might be used in future. Since marketing to-date has already focused on this, it should remain a top priority. At the very least, it would be good to have a system in place by April that can handle 100+ TPS with a clear roadmap of how 1000+ TPS can be achieved in the near future. Also, high TPS is coming with eMunue, so this is not something we can ignore if we are to remain competitive in this area: http://forum.emunie.com/index.php/topic/226-processing-at-visa-scale/The other advanced 2nd gen features are really cool, and some are absolutely essential, but they're harder to understand, and without high TPS and scalability there's nothing to set Nxt above all the other really cool 2nd gen cryptos that are also working on these things. I'm currently writing an article on why you should invest in Nxt. My hope is to eventually get it published on businessinsider or some other high traffic financial news website, and powerful features that the average investor can easily digest will be like dynamite for those looking for the Nxt big thing. |
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Hi CFB,
I think I've got it now. The final result;
And an extra image for the interested people.
Made it a little sketchy, because we are in development :p
Still not a fan of using a hexagon in Nxt logos. It just looks ugly/slow/cumbersome. The second image is great! |
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I would very much like you to consider doing it and I think you underestimate your presentation! Also: working in a duo with someone you feel at home with is much more fun. +1. I think anon and joefox would make a great combo, and would be very interesting to listen to. |
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Who would like to speak at the Lets talk Bitcoin show?
Who would like to speak at the http://www.cryptocurrencyconvention.com/ in New York? PLZ Help me make contact w/ #nextcoin creator.Hosting The Crypto Currency Convention n NYC.We want them to speak and promote #NXT I've missed the past few days. Did we get anyone lined up for these? For the LTB show, we'll need someone who can speak passionately about Nxt, the community, and the Future! (Perhaps two people would make for a more interesting interview. Joefox and one of the devs, for example?) My apologies if this has all been decided and I didn't notice. you guys can imagine what my performance would be like from the interview with tai zen. idk if thats the sort of thing you are looking for. i dont think it was passionate per say. The main thread moves too quickly for me to keep up with, but it seems every time this comes up it gets lost amidst all the other conversations. These two opportunities need to be decided on soon. For the Let's Talk Bitcoin podcast, I suggest we ask joefox and anon136 to work together with Adam on getting this to happen. If they want someone who is more involved with the development to join one of them in the interview, then it's probably best for them to ask someone directly rather than waiting for one of the devs to volunteer. I think it would be a good move to have joefox involved in the interview, because it'll lend weight to his "News On Nxt" updates as well as give him an opportunity to talk about his planned Nxt podcast. For the New York speaker, I have no suggestions, but it seems like an opportunity we shouldn't pass up, since they're actually looking for someone to talk about Nxt. |
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Also, I'd like to suggest that we all move over to the nxt forum n post there to show some activity n not have it look like a ghost town. It doesn't make any sense to "market" n "promote" nxt but put in all the work n effort on a btc forum.
Either the developers or the marketers have to take initiative to make the move... we can't keep asking the nxt developer community to move over when we ourselves are still here. Since we are a smaller group (but have a big impact on nxt) I suggest we make the move over to the nxt forum first n set the pace for the rest of the nxt community to follow.
If we keep posting here.. there will be no reason for people to switch over n start to develop the nxt forum.
People don't like change... so as long as we continue to post here... there is no reason for the nxt community to migrate to nxt forum.
I don't care which nxt forum, just pick one or vote on one n we all move.
I suggest nxtcrypto.com so there is no conflict of interest with the dgex exchange.
Tai Zen
has to be nxtcrypto, dgex guy does not like me at all, and he has clearly stated that anybody that didnt expect him to "protect his interest" was kidding themselves. That means that anything posted negatively about anything related to dgex gets censored, deleted, etc. James I like this idea, but the nxtcrypto forum layout is not nearly as efficient and useful as this. It looks pretty, but there's so much wasted space. Is there a chance the style can be updated to be a little more functional and compact? I've just created a new topic on the nxtcrypto forum about this: https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=735 |
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Who would like to speak at the Lets talk Bitcoin show?
Who would like to speak at the http://www.cryptocurrencyconvention.com/ in New York? PLZ Help me make contact w/ #nextcoin creator.Hosting The Crypto Currency Convention n NYC.We want them to speak and promote #NXT I've missed the past few days. Did we get anyone lined up for these? For the LTB show, we'll need someone who can speak passionately about Nxt, the community, and the Future! (Perhaps two people would make for a more interesting interview. Joefox and one of the devs, for example?) My apologies if this has all been decided and I didn't notice. |
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...lots of good stuff...
EvilDave, you can't pretend any longer. You're a saint. I love the idea, especially sustaining it through forging. This could also be a very easy way for people who want to give back some of what they've gained to donate to some very good causes. A minimum balance and a time interval could be defined, and periodically all Nxt in the account that exceeds the minimum balance can be spent on these worthy causes. I think one of the genuine aims of cryptocurrency is to make the world a better place, and this just fits very well. On a less altruistic note, this would also generate some very good PR for Nxt. |
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Once again I have to say something as paying this huge amount just to be mentioned in a show where most of the listeners probably already know about Nxt (people that know about cryptos) is just ridiculous. They will mention Nxt anyway when it's worth mentioning, right now, there is no real reason. I disagree. This minute isn't about just mentioning Nxt, and it isn't just an advertisement. It will be a regular one minute news update allowing all LTB listeners to stay current on happenings in the Nxt world. Once they realize what's going on, I bet even the staunch Nxt haters will be interested enough to check out the wiki after 9 or 10 episodes. A lot of talented people and influencers in the Bitcoin community pay attention to LTB, so this flow of information is likely to spread beyond the LTB audience as well. Btw, salsacz, I support jl777's notion of using some of the 3 mil unclaimed Nxt allocated towards marketing to pay the difference. One suggestion I'd like to make, if mindtomatter is reading, is that the Nxt minute was rather awkwardly placed in this episode. Perhaps there wasn't much opportunity to place it in a more natural pause, but it would be good to avoid the feeling of interruption when it comes on. Timing and placement could really negatively influence people's emotional response if not done well. |
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emunie and etherium update:
Very active times in the next gen crypto space. I know laws aren't supposed to apply in crytoland, but crypto is getting big enough that it is overlapping the real world
Rumours of the incorporation of emunie seem to be fully confirmed. They are a UK company now, subject to all the laws of her Majesty. Probably a very wise move, considering all the potential liability a large scale IPO with uncertain results could incur. By incorporating, Dan has the ability to create golden parachutes, large salaries, dividends, etc. Even long time fanboys of emunie are upset. Not sure of percentage ownership, but my guess is vast majority is owned by Dan. Shrewd financial operator, with dubious ability to predict crypto markets as evidenced by BCNext's hat.
This move to being fully incorporated makes emunie into Ripple 2.0! Since emunie won't have fiat gateways or external exchanges, the big impact will be in ease of use and raising the bar as to what people expect. I urge all client developers to study the emunie beta (if you can download it) to make sure we are doing all we can in the usability side. From what I have heard emunie has an excellent GUI and we can't ignore any excellence regardless of where it is.
If anybody knows of any actual functionality that NXT (of 2 months from now) lacks in comparison to emunie, please let me know so I can make sure we fill the gap.
On the etherium side, they actually listened to negative feedback on their IPO structure and pulled the IPO. Not sure if what they come back with will be simpler or more complicated, but they announced a testnet release. If anybody has any actual experience with their testnet please post what relevant things etherium has or could have.
We now have the funds to proactively outdo ALL the competition. As the leading second gen crypto, as long as we defend against competitors, we win. Oh, TF and 1000TPS makes us win too, but I just want to win even without that. Better to win by 1000 kilometers than by just a kilometer.
James
Good idea. Also, it's been a while since I've checked in with eMunie, but I believe the claim is it will be able to handle credit card transaction volumes at very high speeds. We may have stiff competition on this front. |
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Looks like jl777 is looking for some skilled developers to join his effort. His plan has merit. Watching with interest!
Me too. It's interesting to see what possible use one can get out of an old system, which is completely different, has limitations that make it impractical, will be completely rewritten from scratch by the zerocoin guys and implemented as a stand-alone altcoin instead of a Bitcoin integration. I also have no idea what this imaginary "zerocoin API" is that he keeps talking about. So I think he, indeed, needs some skilled developers to explain to him why this might not be such a good idea... Meanwhile, if anyone interested in Zerocash (i.e. Zerocoin 2.0) and its possible integration with NXT, follow http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/NxtCash - I will keep updating it as we go. Watching NxtChg with interest too.  |
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Count me in.
I've been thinking about this whole 1000 TPS thing and have a basic question. If ANYBODY can be the node that generates a block, but a node with a low rate data link can't support 1000TPS, then are we saying that the NXT TPS chain is only as strong / fast as its weakest link?
I am guessing any node that can't keep up will automatically become blacklisted and they fall forever behind. Such low bandwidth nodes will need to run slim clients. Not sure how they will be able to send NXT James So we start by telling people they can forge NXT based on their stake, then blacklist them forever if they can't meet a certain level of performance? If this is true then we better stop telling people they can forge on their smartphones now, rather than later. Some promotional material may need to be changed to reflect a realistic cost of forging on a high TPS network. |
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