Trust is only shown in some of the subs (where trading between members happens, I think). As far as account sales, yeah, that's a jaw-dropper, but not likely to change. I started a thread about it in the Meta section, and quickly got some red trust (later removed) from an account dealer who happens to be on default trust. <- obligatory dig.

Bitcointalk is a forum about money and anonymity, without an official set of rules. A recipe for banana republic-style corruption, and the reason why law became a thing in the first place.

No need to wonder, Mikestang, I'll tell you.
Accounts are being farmed by budding bitcoin entrepreneurs. These accounts have to make a certain number of posts, over a certain period of time, before they become "Full Member Accounts."
Needles to say, account farmers generate some volume.

Once these accounts are ready for the market, they are sold, right on this forum, in Auctions or Digital Goods sections, to their proud new owners.
"Why would anyone buy an account, when they could make one for free?" you must be asking right about now. Lolno, you're not. You know why it's done - to make money from ad campaigns. Yeah, those farmed accounts just keep on giving.

So now you don't have to wonder about where all the spam comes from - it's bought and paid for

Hmm.  Good question.
And why are you not posting from your main account? This is the first post from Quickseller (edited multiple times as the sales progressed):

Sometimes, life could be unfair like that


There are no official rules for this forum, because people find loopholes in clearly formulated rules, and exploit them. The moderators can ban you if they feel it's the right thing to do, they don't owe you any proof.
If you don't like it, start your own forum

You've answered your own question:

But that's not what's happening. What's happening is people are farming accounts, selling accounts, buying accounts, and spamming & scamming from those accounts.
Not passive, and nothing to do with chatting.


Now imagine that you're running a gun store.
A guy walks into your shop, sets up a table & starts selling child porn. He also regularly shits on your floor, making your shop less attractive to your customers.
Are you obligated to let him keep doing it?
He has an excellent argument for you to let him stay: If you don't let him sell CP in your store, he'll just be forced to sell it in the parking lot, so why kick him out?

But Quickseller is not denying this "nonsense."

I am not Supa. But impressive SR ref, you gonna hire R&W to do the deed, like the other badass?



@Quickseller: Why? You're not posting from your main account.

You're a lying sack of shit, on default trust, who is not only selling forum accounts, but gaming the trust system.
Yeah, it's my business.

Quickseller: Did you sell the account in question, and did that account consequently leave you positive feedback?

To be so good with wordses...
Pro sophist confirmed

> Quickseller sold an account and the account then left him positive trust.
Works for me.
Did you remember to leave nice trust for the account you sold, to return the favor?

This pay-to-post thing just seems like the polar opposite of what a public forum (in the old sense of the word) is about. Not everything in the world should be monetized just because it can be. The point is paid sig space leads to account dealing which leads us here - more bad than good. This is a private forum, presumably meant for discussing money, not for making it as we talk.

@Quickseller: Not sure why you want to introduce another hot-button issue into a thread that's already pretty polarized. I'm not a gun control crunchy, I've used the example of sleeping with a gun because I had, because I had to. This is not what this thread is about tho.

Citing the Cato Institute is a bit like citing BP re. advantages of offshore drilling. Also confusing cause & effect.
The reason those places opted for stricter gun control is because of violent crime rate. Don't want to go off on that tangent, love guns myself, but not in this thread.

Exactly. That's why we shouldn't create situations which provide incentive for [thing_you_don't_want_to_happen].

I'm sure this has been covered before, but why does the forum even allow sig ads? The forum profits from them indirectly at best, and possibly loses money on [official] forum ads that theymos auctions. Seems ...counterintuitive? You agree that it's the main incentive for account farms & account dealing, what would be the drawback of banning them?
I know I'm opening another can of worms, but.

Yes! We're on the same page, never thought this was some sort of a sinister plan to make some pocket change. The fallout is pretty bad tho.
It's not even something I can easily quantify or point a finger at, more of a general "feel" of the forum changing from hanging out with a bunch of friends to that guarded feel you get when scoring dope in a bad part of town.


But it's a feedback loop. If something seems scammy, you deal with it as you'd deal with scammy things, you jockey for advantage, and it becomes scammy. That's why seemingly superficial stuff isn't as superficial as it seems. From strictly unhippy, utilitarian perspective, it pays to appear good.
A rewording of Vonnegut's “Pretend to be good always and even God will be fooled.”

Trust is not only relevant, it's essential for a thriving community. It is the glue that holds communities together, it allows for frictionless commerce, it lets us sleep with our doors unlocked, it lets us not spend billions on armies.

Anything that works towards degrading trust is "bad," is divisive, is not hugs & sunshine & should be immediately killed. With fire.
This is a prima facie truth that shouldn't need to be explained.

Exactly. It looks really bad. You're probably been around this long enough for the effect to have dulled, but try to imagine what it looks like to the outsiders. And I don't think I'm unique when I tell you I've been here for YEARS before I knew that accounts are being bought and sold. I've heard about it occasionally, but *sincerely* assumed that it was either someone trolling. It simply hasn't donned on me that it was allowed.
What makes you think that new users know it's happening? (since the "it's better for n00bs to see it happening in the open" argument has been used)

Has it been this bad in the past?

But anyway, banning the sale of accounts *ON THIS FORUM*, and banning those who facilitate such dealing (escrow services, etc.) would do wonders for public perception.
Publicly distancing ourselves from it is also important.

Didn't realize it was that much, haven't been following the bitcointalk account market. But yeah, I didn't mean McDonald's.


At the risk of repeating myself, the trusted accounts aren't used to scam directly, but to lend credibility to less trusted accounts. See TAT. Do you really think a n00b going by
"cryptocyprus" would have raised millions on this forum without the help of a trusted member?  Yeah. nah.


In that case, trust is irrelevant for eBay accounts, since, as long as you trust eBay, everything works out.
Bitcointalk accounts aren't backed by a central entity, and the trust you place in them is not a proxy for trust in some central entity.

To be useful, it must be real. If accounts are bought and sold, it is not. It's a charade.
But thanks for taking this thread back on topic.

BTW, do you still think I'm Supa?

Not a little thing.
Sure, the money you get is pocket change, but the damage it has caused to the forum is serious.
If the bitcoin community is judged by this forum, we're nothing but a bunch of  bumbling crooks and inept street hustlers, stealing as much or more from each other than from outsiders.

I realize you're new, but please read some of the posts from the early days of this forum, and compare.
It's an embarrassment. I, for one, am embarrassed. And I'm sure Satoshi would not be proud

Cowardice plays no part in a forum where established, trusted accounts are bought and sold. What, exactly, would I be risking, above the price of a decent dinner?
Simply don't want to give you the satisfaction of knowing you've cost me the price of a hero account.
Perhaps "too thrifty," but "cowardly"?
Nah.

On a more practical note:
Is there any reason, other than butthurt & your pay-to-spam sig ad, for you continuing to shit up this thread?

@redsn0w: The intent of this thread was not to fight, but to discuss.
You've asked me to explain why I'm not posting from my main account, and I did.
If my case relied on reputation rather than facts and logic, I would have bought a trusted account to post with.