Yes of course. Simple discrepancy. So easy for Mr. Chairman to dismiss and say that he has no idea what you are even talking about Bc it's not there anymore. Even though we all saw the screenshot with our own eyes.  

Like I stated in my very first post on this thread. The Chairman and his party are experts at sleight of hand. They are magicians. They perform magic tricks.

Perhaps their favorite trick of all:  

Poof 🎩🪄 one moment you have a balance in your account.

Poof 🎩🪄 another moment it's gone.  

They can wipe out as much as they decide.

And if you dare attempt to exercize your freedom of speech or your freedom to protest, they swing down their iron fist and call you a liar, a racist, and proclaim their own single party self righteousness!

The Chairman described it best when he said "Regardlessly"
Which we all understood he actually meant "regardless", and his mistake was just a minor desprency. But we got the message loud and clear.    


re·gard·less
/rəˈɡärdləs/
adverb: regardless
▪️ without paying attention to the present situation; despite the prevailing circumstances.
▪️ having or showing no regard; heedless; unmindful

Conclusion: at times a strongly regretted these trustdice posts and it took far more energy and commitment to continue this discussion than I had ever planned on investing into this; however In the end I believe the Community has justly exposed a malicious site that had been operating with no accountability for far too long and using their perceived Trust worthy reputation as a means of silencing dissent, and intimidating those who speak out against them.

I wonder where they could have possibly learned to operate like this?
Chairman Coinbox would you like to Hazzard any guess?

He chopped the screenshot of our PROMO CODE page and claimed the amount won from the free spins was 0.3 mBTC (0.00033740 BTC).  This is completely false. Because the 'Amount' on our PROMO CODE page is the value of Free spins originally given to you. This 0.00033740 BTC is the value of Free spins, not how much you won from those Free spins.

This is a perfect example of the nonsense. It is representative of how they operate. With deliberately confusing and misleading language.
 
It’s not the amount it’s the value?!  

Here is what happened:
I started at 0.00 in free spin winnings.
I had 10 free spins to spin.
Spin 1, spin 2, spin 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10!
Now I’ve spun all 10 free spins and the total yield at the conclusion of those spins was 0.00033740.

You can call it amount, value, or whatever else. This is what I believe the maximum limit should have been applied to. The yield from the 10 free spins. Not the yield from the 3 hours I played at the casino after my 10 freespins. I’m the end the max limit was applied to all of my play for the entire day, not just the 10 free spins. That’s why I objected and I did not manipulate anything,
I’m not racist, and I’m stand up for my convictions.  

These are the facts and this is exactly what happened. They fully admit it.

This is exactly the type of misleading, bait and switch, type of behavior that I was objecting to in the first place. Thank you for bringing this to light. I’m glad at least I’m not the only one who takes issue with this type of nonsense.

This is a ridiculous perspective. I did not manipulate anything.  I cropped a screenshot to focus on the important and relevant aspect. What I cropped out was not important whatsoever nor does it change anything I said or TrustDice said.  

This was their attempt to discredit me by deflecting from the fact that they operate under very unfavorable and misleading terms on an every day basis and it’s about time someone brought this to light. They did it again with this “racist” accusation. Another attempt to deflect from the situation and instead attack my credibility because I said they were from China, which basically they confirmed to be true.

My point when saying this was not an expression of any dislike of China, Chinese people, or Asian people, that is not at all the case, complete nonsense. What I was saying was that China has far less consumer protections and regulations (with the exception of crypto) and Chinese manufacturers and service providers can get away with things that would never fly in many western countries and they would be shut down or face legal action. Trust dice is operating in a similar manner and this type of behavior would never be acceptable at Fully regulated or even semi regulated establishment.

That’s incorrect   I was not objecting the to maximum restriction. I was objecting to how it was used to restrict my full session of 3 hours of gameplay instead of limited the 10 free spins which I believed the
Limit applied to.  I explained that very thoroughly and I was fine with the terms as I understood them   

  You bring up a valid point, the casino could have made that point and it may hae been true, but they did not go that route and instead said that they were exposing my ill intensions because i cropped out some irrelevant section of the screenshot.

And you are exactly right, it's a messed up system, it's a horrendous system and woefully in favor of the house. Once again, NO other casino uses these methods or means with the wager requirements.
This is not an objection to the max limit though, and i want that to be well understood.

This is an objection to how the limit is applied.

once more: I was given 10 free spins that carried a maximum win amount of 3.3 mbtc.

the actual winnings that resulted were only 0.3 mbtc.
the maximum limit shoouldve been applied in the event that i won MORE than the maximum 3.3 mbtc in the freespins.... I did not.

Instead they capped the maximum allowable winnings overall which they deducted long after the freespins were done and over.

So in summary, Because i won 0.3 mbtc on the freespins that gave them the right to remove something like 5 mbtc from balance hours later.

that is wrong and i firmly stand behind that belief.

that is one of the points i tried to make but had success communicating this.

in my experience, this type of gimmick with unfavorable terms and bizarre calculations are not of western origination, i am strongly inclined to believe that trust dice is operating out of china, whatever implications that may have.

Yes I have responded at length on the other thread in regards to his allegations.   I will repost here as well.    

Here is my response to his claim.

I have no ill intentions first of all.

My intentions are to hold your site accountable for using such sleight of hand magic tricks to chip away at your players balances and to fine print gimmicks  that are hidden away and only revealed when it's time to cash out.  

I cropped out the activate promo code because I did not see the relevance.  That's your big smoking gun on how Intentionally mislead the community with Ill intentions because I cropped out that largely irrelevant section? You even said yourself that you didn't know why I woild do that.

WITH or WITHOUT that element included it does not change anything that either you or I said.  That's why I left it out. To focus on the relevant matter which is your unethical and misleading bonus promotions and terms.

These are *shady* casino practices, removing balances, hiding behind max limits on a bonus that I won 0.3 mbtc. Is total BS!

I spun 10 free spins and won 0.3 mbtc.  There should've been no maximum limits on anything beyond the 0.3 mbtc.  *No other online casino operates under these ridiculous terms* that you have presented.  So yes your reputation is being directly questioned and for good reason.  

I reviewed the promo email and there is nothing stating about limits or about the fact that if you win even the smallest amount on those freespins that your entire balance will be locked up after a few spins because of the way you calculate playthrough  



Every wager you make reduced your real money balance and every amount won as a result of those real money wagers is credited to your bonus balance (including if it’s a break-even tie) which is locked up by an exhausting 40X playthrough.

You all did a thorough review and in-depth investigation and you found *no issues* whatsoever — this means that it’s you’re *intentionally* operating under these ridiculous methods of calculations which systematically convert your users real money deposits into bonus funds (which are locked up with a 40x playthrough) — even when the amount won from the original freespins is a trivial amount as is the case was mine.

It’s no wonder that you felt the need to include **TRUST** in the name of your organization because deception often requires overcompensation in order to fool others into believing false claims.  

This is one of the reasons that some low-income or poor people will buy expensive shoes and jewelry, because they want to fool others into believing that they have a lot of money when in fact they do not.
This is one of the reasons that Little Men with little D’s often drive big trucks with big tires because they want to fool others into believing they are big men when in fact they are not.
And this same idea is the reason that shady websites that operate under misleading and/or false pretenses would include **TRUST** in the name of their operations - to fool people into believing that they can be trusted — when in fact they cannot  

Again, including the ‘Activate Promo Code’ does not help justify your ill-intended policies whatsoever. Your “gotcha” accusation is laughable.  

Lastly, Which of us benefits from misleading Bitcointalk members? I do not. But you?.. well that’s up to everyone else to decide.

No it's not a coincidence. It's the result of a combination of several things.

1. There is no shortage of malicious and dishonest operators in this space and
2. When I encounter these less than ethical practices or underhanded tactics I do my part in bringing them to light. Accountability is a good thing generally.   
3. My account is 6+ years old
4. I explore new sites often and play at a relatively high frequency.

Feel free to review any of my previous posts. Using the frequency of someone's bad experiences is not a good measure of the validity of each individual grievance. I would encourage you to examine any of these previous Complaints and form your own assessment of them on their individual merits.

To the question of extortion, It could not possibly be extortion because I have not requested any funds from anyone.  Since the beginning I stated my intentions and have maintained that throughout this discussion. Lastly, why is my history or personal conduct relevant when they have admitted to doing everything I have stated and they have admitted to reviewing this extensively and investigating it.  We are not in disagreement about what has happened. 

The only question remaining is whether or not the behavior is fair, acceptable and tolerable to the community or whether it's unacceptable, Misleading, and exploitative.

We both agree what happened.

I have no ill intentions first of all.

My intentions are to hold your site accountable for using such sleight of hand magic tricks to chip away at your players balances and to fine print gimmicks  that are hidden away and only revealed when it's time to cash out.  

I cropped out the activate promo code because I did not see the relevance.  That's your big smoking gun on how Intentionally mislead the community with Ill intentions because I cropped out that largely irrelevant section? You even said yourself that you didn't know why I woild do that.

WITH or WITHOUT that element included it does not change anything that either you or I said.  That's why I left it out. To focus on the relevant matter which is your unethical and misleading bonus promotions and terms.

These are *shady* casino practices, removing balances, hiding behind max limits on a bonus that I won 0.3 mbtc. Is total BS!

I spun 10 free spins and won 0.3 mbtc.  There should've been no maximum limits on anything beyond the 0.3 mbtc.  *No other online casino operates under these ridiculous terms* that you have presented.  So yes your reputation is being directly questioned and for good reason.  

I reviewed the promo email and there is nothing stating about limits or about the fact that if you win even the smallest amount on those freespins that your entire balance will be locked up after a few spins because of the way you calculate playthrough  



Every wager you make reduced your real money balance and every amount won as a result of those real money wagers is credited to your bonus balance (including if it’s a break-even tie) which is locked up by an exhausting 40X playthrough.

You all did a thorough review and in-depth investigation and you found *no issues* whatsoever — this means that it’s you’re *intentionally* operating under these ridiculous methods of calculations which systematically convert your users real money deposits into bonus funds (which are locked up with a 40x playthrough) — even when the amount won from the original freespins is a trivial amount as is the case was mine.

It’s no wonder that you felt the need to include **TRUST** in the name of your organization because deception often requires overcompensation in order to fool others into believing false claims.  

This is one of the reasons that some low-income or poor people will buy expensive shoes and jewelry, because they want to fool others into believing that they have a lot of money when in fact they do not.
This is one of the reasons that Little Men with little D’s often drive big trucks with big tires because they want to fool others into believing they are big men when in fact they are not.
And this same idea is the reason that shady websites that operate under misleading and/or false pretenses would include **TRUST** in the name of their operations - to fool people into believing that they can be trusted — when in fact they cannot 

Again, including the ‘Activate Promo Code’ does not help justify your ill-intended policies whatsoever. Your “gotcha” accusation is laughable.   

Lastly, Which of us benefits from misleading Bitcointalk members? I do not. But you?.. well that’s up to everyone else to decide. 

Again I present another example:

If I deposited 4mbtc and accepting the freespins bonus.  Spin through the spins and win the maximum amount allowable by the bonus and then clear the 40x playthrough, despite this incredible achievement I would actually have less money than I deposited. I would have only 3.3 MBTC but I deposited 4 MBTC.

This shifts the favor in advantage of the house by such a high amount that the game is nearly impossible and should not be described as gambling st all.  It's either purely for entertainment and not really gambling or its a scam that used magic tricks to calculate their players balances. 

Again.  No other casino operates under these corrupted rules and calculations.  It's asinine. 

The amount won from the free spins is clearly stated right there in my account.

No other casino operates using this bizarre and unfavorable calculations. Not one.  



This is the amount that the 3.3 MBTC limit should be applied to.  Just the freespins.  Not any winnings from my entire deposit.  If I deposit 4mbtc and win the maximum amount allowable on the bonus spins I woild actually lose money as a result.  Think about that.  This is house trickery and a dishonest approach to operating your site. 

I’m a very reasonable individual so naturally I have considered the possibility that I was wrong initially, and if that was the case then here are some other statements that would also be true as a consequence:

It means that my 2 mBTC deposit would have a maximum profit multiplier of only 0.65X and that is if I got the highest payout possible on the freespins.

Could you imagine any terms and conditions that said “maximum profit that can be paid out for this bonus is 0.65X”

That’s asinine. 5X max cap is considered very low by any industry standard, most casinos wouldn’t even stoop to *that* level out of concern for their reputation but to think of a site applying a cap of 0.65X max winnings, that is a very bad joke!

Also it would mean that I am risking 2 mBTC with a 40x playthrough (which is a long shot to make it through 40X to begin with) for a maximum total profit of 1.3 mBTC. Again, clearly that is not a favorable “promo”. Hey deposit and clear 40x playthrough and you will win your money back plus maybe a little extra if you score the highest possible return allowable

I mean come on that is totally unreasonable and clear prooof that this is unacceptable behavior with absurdly restrictive terms and no reputable casino would even dare to act like this — they should be flagged. Upon looking into it further they openly pay their players for reviews on TrustPilot  so again that’s unethical as well and against the terms of use for TrustPilot… more trickery and illusions.

Proof of the amount displayed in my bonus history   

I continue to protest and exclaim that these funds were not won on the freespins.  I won only 0.3 MBTC on the freespins.  The bonus module within my account that tracks these exact bonuses and wagering requirements says itself "free spins promo : winnings 0.3 MBTC" so they prove on their own means that 0.3 MBTC is the freespins winnings. 

So then why has my balance been reduced by 5.5 mbtc as I cleared the playthrough?
This is improper behavior, incorrect categorization of my balance. 

It's dishonest bahavior and they are attempting to shave my winnings but they are using irregular means or scam-math to weasel their way out of Paying me my winnings. 

I know they have a decent reputation and that's why I'm confronting this foolery. This is nonsense logic and the community should stand against nonsensical justifications like this. 

Hello,

Firstly, I want to express how grateful I am to have Bitcointalk.org as a trusted resource to factiltate discussion of various crypto relations.    

Thanks to all of my fellow members for their contributions.  

2ndly I have a major concern about the bizarre means of calculations being applied by this casino TrustDice.Win (which has a higher than average reputation as I have heard) But perhaps it’s time to reevaluate the consensus after considering my recent experience  It's not anything I have seen in my decade plus of gaming and wagering.

As such, I felt it necessary to confront this one openly and transparently. So here we go!

Rather than go through all the transaction info and calculations I will provide a summary of the total amounts and outcomes:

I deposited 2 MBTC and was advised that I won a wheel spin. 

Prior to making my depo I opted OUT of the 50% deposit bonus that is pre-selected for you in their cashier.  I said no thanks. 

But after the depo was confirmed, I then was offered spin on the wheel for this BATMAN promo.

I spun the wheel and got 10 spins yayy (the lowest amount possible on the wheel) which I was fine with. 

Okay 10 spins. And the winnings have a 40x playthrough.  Okay sure. 

But here's where it becomes strange. 

Free Spins begin, I have 10 spins total.
Fast forward to the end, I finished with winnings of 0.000302 BTC or 0.3 mbtc!

Hardly any winnings at all.  But okay. X40 playthrough gives me a wagering requirement 0.012 approx or 12.3 MBTC
These numbers are confirmed in the promo section of my account.  It shows these numbers in their respective columns.

So remember I had deposited 2 mbtc so now I have 0.002302 BTC OR 2.3 MBTC TOTAL. Wow. Not exactly what I had hoped for but that's fine.  Maybe an unlikely set of freespins.  It happens. No problem.   Moving on. 

So now I take my 2.3 MBTC and play for a while and while. 
My lowest balance was only 1.3 MBTC and to my surprise I worked my way all the way through that playthrough.

With 99% of the playthrough completed my balance was 8.7 MBTC.  A nice amount I thought. 

So at this point there is only a few spins left until I hit the 100% and finally clear that playthrough to unlock my free spins winnings which we recall from earlier was 0.000302 BTC or 0.3 mbtc. 

100% achieved.  Yayyy.  I made it right? Nice day of wagering. 8.7 MBTC nice little come up right? WRONG

I look up and suddenly my balance has changed from 8.7MBTC to 3.3MBTC. Wait whatttt? Certainly there was some error or miscalc?!? So I open live chat and explain and the agent says:

"as I can see you were using the batman promo which has a maximum of 3.3MBTC for the freespins"

"....For the freespins" were her exact words. 

I didn't see that listed anywhere prior but ya know what, I accept it as they say.  Maybe there were some fine print, not the most ethical practice but I've seen it many times Plus I only won a small amount on the freespins of 0.3mbtc so the Max of 3.3 MBTC WINNINGS on the freespins should not affect me anyways. 

So I stand my position that there is an error. 

The support agent says "no sorry thats the Max win for this promo"

At this point I see that they are fully aware of my balance details and are miscategorizing my funds as being from the freespins which had a hidden maximum winnings restriction.

This is one of the sleight of hand type of shady behavior that I wouldn't normally expect from what appears to be a reputable website. 

After thinking this all the way through and having some time to reflect, i believe i should open a scam accusation (something that i never do because i understand the potential harm it could cause the site and do not wish to cause harm to them but in this case I believe it’s warranted) and im going to do that right now   

Thanks to everyone who has taken time to read this experience and/or comment and share their thoughts.
Much appreciated from all.

Once again I protest and exclaim that these funds were not won on the freespins.  I won only 0.3 MBTC on the freespins.  The bonus module within my account that tracks these exact bonuses and wagering requirements says itself "free spins promo : winnings 0.3 MBTC" so they prove on their own means that 0.3 MBTC is the freespins winnings.  

So then why has my balance been reduced by 5.5 mbtc as I cleared the playthrough?
This is improper behavior, incorrect categorization of my balance. 

It's dishonest bahavior and they are attempting to shave my winnings but they are using irregular means or scam-math to weasel their way out of Paying me my winnings.  

I know they have a decent reputation and that's why I'm confronting this foolery. This is nonsense logic and the community should stand against nonsensical justifications like this.  

Rather than go through all the transaction info and calculations I will provide a summary of the total amounts and outcomes:

I deposited 2 MBTC for this BATMAN Promo and was advised that I won a wheel spin. 

Prior to making my depo I opted OUT of the 50% deposit bonus that is pre-selected for you in their cashier.  I said no thanks. 

But after the depo was confirmed, I then was offered spin on the wheel for this BATMAN promo.

I spun the wheel and got 10 spins yayy (the lowest amount possible on the wheel) which I was fine with. 

Okay 10 spins. And the winnings have a 40x playthrough.  Okay sure. 

But here's where it becomes strange. 

Free Spins begin, I have 10 spins total.
Fast forward to the end, I finished with winnings of 0.000302 BTC or 0.3 mbtc!

Hardly any winnings at all.  But okay. X40 playthrough gives me a wagering requirement 0.012 approx or 12.3 MBTC
These numbers are confirmed in the promo section of my account.  It shows these numbers in their respective columns.

So remember I had deposited 2 mbtc so now I have 0.002302 BTC OR 2.3 MBTC TOTAL. Wow. Not exactly what I had hoped for but that's fine.  Maybe an unlikely set of freespins.  It happens. No problem.   Moving on. 

So now I take my 2.3 MBTC and play for a while and while. 
My lowest balance was only 1.3 MBTC and to my surprise I worked my way all the way through that playthrough.

With 99% of the playthrough completed my balance was 8.7 MBTC.  A nice amount I thought. 

So at this point there is only a few spins left until I hit the 100% and finally clear that playthrough to unlock my free spins winnings which we recall from earlier was 0.000302 BTC or 0.3 mbtc. 

100% achieved.  Yayyy.  I made it right? Nice day of wagering. 8.7 MBTC nice little come up right? WRONG

I look up and suddenly my balance has changed from 8.7MBTC to 3.3MBTC. Wait whatttt? Certainly there was some error or miscalc?!? So I open live chat and explain and the agent says:

"as I can see you were using the batman promo which has a maximum of 3.3MBTC for the freespins"

"....For the freespins" were her exact words. 

I didn't see that listed anywhere prior but ya know what, I accept it as they say.  Maybe there were some fine print, not the most ethical practice but I've seen it many times Plus I only won a small amount on the freespins of 0.3mbtc so the Max of 3.3 MBTC WINNINGS on the freespins should not affect me anyways. 

So I stand my position that there is an error. 

The support agent says "no sorry thats the Max win for this promo"

At this point I see that they are fully aware of my balance details and are miscategorizing my funds as being from the freespins which had a hidden maximum winnings restriction.

This is one of the sleight of hand type of shady behavior that I wouldn't normally expect from what appears to be a reputable website. 

Hello,

Firstly, I want to express how grateful I am to have Bitcointalk.org as trusted resource to factiltate discussion of various crypto relations.    Thanks to my fellow members for their contributions.   

Now 2ndly I have a major concern about the bizarre means of calculating this bonus offer and it's unfavorable fine print.  It's not anything I have seen in my decade plus of gaming and wagering. I felt it necessary to confront this one openly and transparently.