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I gave up on my order and filed a claim through PayPal. PayPal was able to recover and return my entire payment, even after repeated lies from Stephen Macaskill.
Never again.
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Are people still getting their orders at all?
I gave up on my order and filed a claim through PayPal. PayPal was able to recover and return my entire payment, even after repeated lies from Stephen Macaskill. Never again. |
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...Multiple customers have already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days...
That's right; it worked for me. Who else? Chime in gentlemen. |
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When i opened the claim there was only couple days left before the 45 days mark
and i have one order past 45 days i will call paypal tomorrow and see if i can dispute that...
What did PayPal say? |
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paypal does have some kind of a insurance system right? if BFL comes out to be a scam. you could ask for a refund right?
i bought 2x jelapenos there for almost 400$ total...
it hurts bad when you see asicminers all arround the world already deliverd, live and kicking. and bfl cant even deliver in time.
ATM their on delivering the backorders from november2012.
so basically they delivered 6 months backorders in 2 months mass production.(from april 2013 till now)
my order was in april so i assume its gonna take them another 2 months to maaaaybe deliver my order? thats what i call fraud and bad project management... by the time 5GH/s is nothing worth.
Paypal will help you but only if you file the dispute within 45 days of the purchase...PayPal got me a refund, and I was months past the 45-day window. See here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.0 |
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Did anyone do bank CC charge back?
Promptly requested a refund with office@bfl. I imagine there will be no need to escalate that far in this particular instance... We already know BFL wont gave refund and paypal wont gave refund after 45 days. Sure they will. That was the original point of this thread. |
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I have 3 disputes against them one of the orders i used my credit card thru paypal and the rest from my bank account.
Now if i dispute it with my credit card and do a charge back will be account be in a bad standing with paypal?
Also on my disputes paypal is asking me to respond and when i click on view there is nothing that i can do it is either cancel dispute or change reason.
What should i do?
Pick up the telephone and call PayPal. |
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on my dispute BFL replied as my items where shipped and they did not provide tracking number.
Also it says required action on my behalf when i click on the dispute there is nothing i can do there.
On the dashboard BFL marked the item as complete and refunded and on the claim they said they shipped it with no tracking number provided.
Any ideas what should i do at this point?
Call PayPal. I've had better luck with phone calls than e-mails. |
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My family thanks you very much VCsmith for your thread and sharing information  You're welcome. Let us know if you succeed. |
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I'll bet you a BFL jalapeno* they have no balance in their Paypal account...
It took several days for my refund to process through PayPal, which I believe meant the PayPal refund had to be funded from their bank account. My order was a small one, so the PayPal account had to be almost completely empty. Of course I waited until the refund cleared before starting this thread.  |
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That being said I would not simply take a PP CS agents email as gospel, I personally would be on the phone politely pointing out that BF Labs appears to breaking PayPal ToS (and FTC regulations by refusing refunds). Keep going up the ladder on the phone it will likely yield the best results.
I agree. I sent several e-mails (mainly to establish a paper trail), but I got farther with the phone calls. None of my PayPal calls were short, and I never accepted "no" as an answer. In my opinion, phone calls and stubbornness are the keys.And patience! You need patience when speaking to anyone at Paypal... I agree with that as well. Had I written rude e-mails or yelled/cursed on the phone, then I doubt I would've had a reason to start this thread. One can be stubborn without being an ass. BFL needs PayPal. If that relationship is broken... |
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That being said I would not simply take a PP CS agents email as gospel, I personally would be on the phone politely pointing out that BF Labs appears to breaking PayPal ToS (and FTC regulations by refusing refunds). Keep going up the ladder on the phone it will likely yield the best results.
I agree. I sent several e-mails (mainly to establish a paper trail), but I got farther with the phone calls. None of my PayPal calls were short, and I never accepted "no" as an answer. In my opinion, phone calls and stubbornness are the keys. |
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I have carefully combed through this thread for exactly what are the TOS that BFL are violating. I didn't find it. I combed through Paypals website for TOS that BFL inc is violating like not delivering goods or providing a specific delivery/shipping date and still could not find it.
So before I look like a duffus when Paypal asks me exactly what TOS BFL inc is not complying with can someone please tell us in black in white right here? I'm about to contact their legal department.
See below in red (copied and pasted from PayPal's site): Does PayPal permit transactions for pre-sale items?
A pre-sale item is advertised for sale before the seller actually has the item. Often, these items are sold before they are available to the general public.
A seller might use the money from the pre-sale of an item to purchase the item.
PayPal permits pre-sales on a limited basis as long as the seller:
Guarantees shipment within 20 days from the date of purchase.
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Wow, that is one very well crafted email. Re-posted in case anyone needs a template.
Thanks. BTW, I forgot to mention that I put "Butterfly Labs" as the subject of every e-mail to PayPal. I also repeatedly mentioned their name during each phone call, and brought up the fact that they are violating PayPal's ToS. Maybe something will sink in if others do the same. One request: If anyone else gets one of those "your order is under review and being taken out of the queue" calls from BFL, please post about it. That just seemed desperate and creepy to me. |
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I think I got the same (or a similar response), but the Customer Solutions Supervisor referenced my e-mail to fraud when he called me. The next step would be to call PayPal's Customer Service and bend their ear. Personally I think the phone calls got me farther than the e-mails did. Point out this (from their site): Does PayPal permit transactions for pre-sale items?
A pre-sale item is advertised for sale before the seller actually has the item. Often, these items are sold before they are available to the general public.
A seller might use the money from the pre-sale of an item to purchase the item.
PayPal permits pre-sales on a limited basis as long as the seller:
Guarantees shipment within 20 days from the date of purchase.
Clearly identifies the item as a pre-sale.
Provides proof, if needed, that they can successfully deliver the product (supplier information, purchase invoices, shipping information, or delivery confirmation). Most importantly, don't take "no" for an answer. This is your money. |
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Running fine here with Mint 15 and cgminer 3.3.1.
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FWIW, there was one thing in this ordeal that really rubbed me the wrong way...
When Bruce from BFL called, he made the "under review" status sound like a punishment for my complaining to PayPal. He seemed surprised that I didn't care about being taken out of the queue. I think that was the only card they had.
Again, don't take this lying down. If you want your money back, take it.
You should have just said that if they shipped your units right away, you will give up inquiring about the refund  I appreciate your opinion, but... At this time I have no further interest in any BFL product. I have no faith in their ability to deliver, and I have no faith in their desire to provide ongoing customer service (i.e. warranty). I was tired of their delay tactics, and sick of watching the way their officers conduct themselves in public. BFL showed me one thing: They are not the type of company that I want to do business with.I just wanted my money back, plain and simple. In the end, I got it. |
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Just sent an email to fraud@paypal.com explaining everything. I asked for a refund to BFL and they rejected. Then I filed a Dispute in PayPal and was rejected because of the 45 days window. Let's try now with the email to fraud. If I get a refund I will inform you. Not to tell you what to do, but I also called PayPal's Customer Service and complained about the dispute being closed. I think the fact that I hit them from every angle helped my case. Good luck! |
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