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2561  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: By the time you figure out why Bitcoin has risen, it will crash. Here's why on: December 06, 2017, 07:35:30 AM
P2P is domestic trading only.  Banning the exchanges is very strongly reducing supply from china to the places where the price is calculated: Exchanges.  Is not the price calculated by what the price is on exchanges?  China supply can not make it to exchanges.  The large dips along the rise likely are from chinese miners finding a way to get rid of coins, but the overall picture since sept 30th is reduced Chinese supply.

That doesn't mean they can't trade with people from other countries. You do make a point, but I'm not sold that China is hoarding a lot of supply considering a lot of them dumped when the exchange ban was announced. Trading itself isn't banned, and I'm sure lots of them are resourceful enough to find a way to liquidate their coins. Like other people have said, they could use global exchanges, or exchange their Bitcoin for commodities, etc. The exchange ban in place does not necessarily mean that the coins can't get out of China.
2562  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bank Indonesia to ban Bitcoin transactions next year on: December 06, 2017, 07:11:38 AM
Therefore, BI called on merchants not to accept Bitcoin as an official payment instrument as the bank would not be responsible for any losses incurred through transactions, Onny said. 

Well that's disappointing. I want to clarify something though: are they banning Bitcoin in its entirety or are they banning merchants from accepting Bitcoin? It looks like they're still on the fence about regulations, and they at least want to stop its unregulated use as they seem to fear it could do damage. So users can still trade with each other? I'm guessing exchanges are off the table.

Either way, it looks like it's not yet final so let's keep our fingers crossed. Keep in mind that while a country may have a small volume of Bitcoin transactions, a ban closes the door for future adopters. It's a big loss in the long run.
2563  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: JPMorgan Switches Tact, Backs Bitcoin as New Gold on: December 06, 2017, 04:45:44 AM
So, is Dimon going to make a public appearance and call their analysts idiots? Lol.

To be fair, we've always known that JPMorgan is friendly towards Bitcoins. I mean, they buy dips. The only problem is that Dimon also causes (or tries to cause) dips. They've already been exposed, but at least it doesn't look like they're trying to spread more FUD. Looks like the banking industry is starting to realize they need to welcome Bitcoin or they'll be gobbled by it.
2564  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: By the time you figure out why Bitcoin has risen, it will crash. Here's why on: December 06, 2017, 03:21:42 AM
Bitcoin is skyrocketing because it banned exchanges.  The exchange ban went into full effect sept 30th.  This is when bitcoins price started going to the moon.  Supply and demand.  Almost all of the bitcoin supply comes from China.  When exchanges were shut down, none of that supply could make it to the market.  Hence the price goes up.

Two situations could then crash bitcoin.  First a Chinese mining ban.  This would mean the supply of bitcoin would shift to other countries as china will exit the mining pool.  This would cause an increase in bitcoin supply to western markets by nearly 2,000 bitcoin per day.  This would cause bitcoin price to crash but it may be a slow process.

Sorry, but this doesn't make any sense to me. Exchanges aren't the only way for Bitcoins to hit the market. And who says they haven't? Plenty of people dumped when the ban was announced, causing a 40% dip. I'm assuming a lot of those coins came from China. And it's not like they've stopped trading since then:

https://www.coindesk.com/chinas-bitcoin-exchanges-shift-p2p-model-domestic-crackdown/

Bitcoin is alive and well over there, and I don't think reopening exchanges is going to have much of an impact on the global market.

As for the mining ban, I don't think it's going to happen. They could have done massive damage by outright banning Bitcoin, but they didn't. Their concern was capital outflows, as they have officially stated, and I really don't think there's any more to it than that. I don't see any reason to believe that China is out for Bitcoin's blood.
2565  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Bitcoin and Crypto currency Tax Declaration Solution on: December 06, 2017, 02:29:32 AM
There should already be something out there floating around for your country. It's not going to be free though. Just note that there is no one-size-fits-all app of this kind.

If you know exactly how you want the system to work, you could also hire a programmer to write software for you. If it's just simple accounting, it should be fairly simple to code. Heck, some people do their taxes on Excel.

The safest option would be to consult your accountant, though they may not want to disclose any software they know of. Still, they know what they're doing, and taxes are not to be messed around with. You may end up with piles of fines by trying to save a few bucks.
2566  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A BIG SHOUT OUT TO ALL THE HACKERS/SCAMMERS AROUND THE WORLD. on: December 06, 2017, 01:46:25 AM
You don't think they already know all this? Lol. They do what they do knowing full well that there are consequences and casualties of their actions. They simply choose not to care about anything other than their bottom line. They're depraved, either by necessity or by greed, and no amount of pleading will cause them to think twice.

The only way to really stop them is to hit them where it matters -- their money. Make sure you and the people around you don't fall for their tactics. A little awareness goes a long way. They're not going to be eliminated entirely, but every person safe from them counts.
2567  Bitcoin / Hardware wallets / Re: Are Hardware Wallets to be trusted? on: December 06, 2017, 01:35:01 AM
We all know the securityissues with Microsoft and specifically it's privacy concerns. But, I never seen anyone talking about the actual hardware you are using and trusting with your private keys. There's been evidence that previously reputable companies have been spying on it's customers via keyloggers. Just take dell for instance: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-12/hp-laptops-discovered-be-spying-users-keylogger

Wow that's disturbing. I read about this a while ago but I thought it was just some statistics gathering software or something. I had no idea it was actually recording keystrokes on an unencrypted file, according to https://www.cnet.com/news/keylogger-discovered-on-some-hp-laptops-conexant/. Either way, this is why I support open-source software. Everything is up for review, so you know exactly what you're getting into. I have stopped trusting Windows for some time now, opting for Linux for more sensitive activites, and this just proves I'm right.

As for hardware wallets, I have to be honest that I have no idea how they work internally, but the fact that they have been completely safe thus far suggests that they're quite trustworthy. There are probably some out there that houses hundreds of thousands of coins. But then again, there are only no incidents until there has been an incident, so that could change in a hurry. I personally still trust them because it's not like they're running on some kind of freemium model, but that's just me.
2568  Bitcoin / Hardware wallets / Re: Can a Bitcoin Hardware Wallet Be Compromised? on: December 06, 2017, 01:21:36 AM
Both should be equally good. You should note that there was a reported vulnerability on Trezor a few months ago though:

https://medium.com/@Zero404Cool/trezor-security-glitches-reveal-your-private-keys-761eeab03ff8

Despite this, there has been no confirmed thefts on hardware wallets ever. They're the cream of the crop when it comes to safety because people who own them typically know a thing or two about security. They could be compromised because nothing is ever 100% completely un-hackable, but seeing as there are no recorded thefts, it would be extremely hard to pull off.

I personally would not buy a second hand one because there is always the possibility of hacked firmware of some sort. They're not that expensive and it's not worth risking your Bitcoins just to save a few bucks. Do yourself a favor and buy a sealed one. You won't regret it.
2569  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is the 21 milion of bitcoin a real limit? on: December 05, 2017, 08:07:19 AM
- is it a real limit

Yes. Once the last of the 21 million is mined, you can't mine any anymore. It's more than a century away though. If someone comes in here and says that forks increase the limit, don't believe them because they're talking about some altcoin.

- is it a good thing? I think it is but it looks like BTC will become more a commodity and not just a payment system

It's a good thing if you want Bitcoin's value to soar, because that makes it deflationary. It would still work as a payment system, but the rising price could, and is already discouraging people from spending it. It has already become much more of a commodity than it is a payment system, with everyone raving about its growth rather than its features as a currency, but who knows. Some future development might change that.
2570  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Making money off BTC written on paper? on: December 05, 2017, 07:56:49 AM
It's obviously a joke, and much more money has been spent on jokes before. It's harmless fun, as he doesn't really claim that the piece of paper is worth BTC.6. The listing literally says : "You are bidding on a piece of paper with "BTC .6 BTC" written on it." Things would be different if he claimed that it were a paper wallet to take advantage of naive people who want to get into the game. His drawing in a bottle could be a little misleading though, because the image features a QR code.

Also, the highest bid as of now is a whopping 6 cents, so it's not out of the ordinary. Heck, I would bid if I actually found it funny, or if I knew the person. People have sold stranger stuff before. Lighten up!  Smiley
2571  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Treasury ministry plans strong regulations of Bitcoin on: December 05, 2017, 07:36:57 AM
I would be fine with it, because it signifies that they're not implementing a ban in the future. The disclosure of identities is pretty meh though and goes against the core principles of cryptocurrencies. But then again, the moment you sign up for an exchange, you get your identity verified anyway and your coins will be at least partially traceable from there, so I guess it's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. The US has started it, and it's looking like the rest of the world will follow suit.

Still, this is good in a way. The silver lining is that once governments start to fully acknowledge Bitcoin's legitimacy, their citizens will start to acknowledge it as well. It's basically a compromise between privacy and adoption which I would accept, because it's not like we have a choice anyway. It's still much better than the alternative of a complete ban on grounds of money laundering, crime, etc.
2572  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Awareness is the biggest influence. on: December 05, 2017, 07:25:18 AM
The mall in S.Korea that started accepting BTC as of this month played a massive roll in BTC's growth. Obviously this is because BTC's awareness is growing!

I doubt that. May I know what mall this is? The market currently seems to be much more driven by investors, rather than people actually looking into using Bitcoin as a currency. I don't know the statistics of merchants because they don't really release it, but few people seem to actually pay with Bitcoin. I know I wouldn't.

I do agree about awareness, though. There's a lot more awareness than normal thanks to all the all time highs breaking, but it's not nearly enough to break into the mainstream. I don't think there's any way to fast track this though, because the more you shove it down people's throats, the more they will think it's a scam. Just talk about it in a positive light and explain in detail if someone asks.
2573  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Wtf... Apple is worth $800bn, Bitcoin $196bn on: December 05, 2017, 06:19:55 AM
Why would you even compare them? It's a pointless exercise. Apple is the most valuable company in the world, while Bitcoin is a currency which really shouldn't even be measured in terms of market cap. That's like saying USD is more valuable than Apple because the amount in circulation is greater than Apple's value. It's inconclusive of anything.

Also, whoever said Bitcoin was a replacement for fiat, credit cards, and banks? Bitcoin was created to be an alternative means of payment. Whether it can render said things to be obsolete remains to be seen, though I do believe it has the potential to.
2574  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Fees and payments on: December 05, 2017, 04:34:27 AM
It's a valid concern especially with fees being as high as they are. It's true that retailers typically "hide" a credit card charge on top of the item's price so they don't lose profit over credit card fees. It remains there even if you happen to pay with cash, so I presume it will also stay there when you use Bitcoin. In the end, you pay more than what you would have paid in cash or credit card, because they will not refund you the fees. I have honestly never looked at it this way.

The only solution I see is for the fees to drop enough such that paying it would be near negligible. Other than that, stores could offer a Bitcoin discount, similar to how some stores offer cash discounts. Either way, I'm sure the industry will be able to develop a practice everyone would be able to accept once paying with Bitcoin starts becoming widespread.
2575  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BitCoin for Survivalists. on: December 05, 2017, 02:34:49 AM
It would be better than relying on your own currency if your country were at war, at least. The economy is going to tank, and you're sure to experience inflation. But then again, I'm sure the rest of the world will fare no better. I don't think you will be able to flee into a country which is completely free from the effects of war. Similar-minded people could drive up Bitcoin's value, but there is a question of how easy it will be to liquidate as the current Bitcoin will not be able to handle that many transactions.

But yeah, speaking theoretically, a hardware wallet or a desktop wallet would be your best bets. Exchanges and web wallets may be forced to close down, so you should never trust them with storing your money.
2576  Economy / Economics / Re: The 'intrinsic value' discussion on: December 05, 2017, 02:20:32 AM
Quote
You seem to agree that scarcity on its own does not give value. And yes bitcoin is wanted so scarcity plays an important role for price, but why is bitcoin wanted? Basically what I'm looking for in this topic is: is there anything that gives bitcoin value on its own?

No. Nothing has value on its own. It's not that black and white. It has to have utility, it has to not be too widely available, and it has to have demand. I could do a similar tear-down of gold and no single quality will give it value.

Quote
This refers to my point 7:
7) Bitcoin has value because enough people think it has value.
I already explained why this is dangerous. Peoples opinion can change quickly. If there is no fallback of an intrinsic value, something that bitcoin can always be used for even when unpopular, there is nothing stopping the price going to zero if people stop believing it has value.

Again, value is a man made concept. Money is a man made concept. If people stopped believing that gold is precious, its value would also plummet.

Quote
As I asked in my original post: how does a combination of properties that do not give value to something on their own, magically create value when they are combined?

You're just meat and bone and blood, yet you can't create a human by combining all three, right? A whole is typically greater than the sum of its parts.

Quote
I already explained fiat has value because it is enforced by the government ('at the very least' can still be used for taxes), and gold 'at the very least' can be used for production of electrical devices, or jewelry.
What can bitcoin do for you 'at the very least', if it ever became wildly unpopular?

Governments don't have complete control over fiat value. Check out the Zimbabwean Dollar. Everything can lose value.
2577  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: So what's stopping china from banning bitcoin mining? on: December 05, 2017, 02:10:09 AM
Nothing. It should be clear by now that China is an authoritarian country which can take civil liberties as it pleases. They can, and have routinely banned whatever they want, and their citizens have little to no privacy as the government monitors them. They were able to ban ICOs and shut down exchanges, and they could just as easily ban Bitcoin and its mining operations.

The question here is why they would ban it. Despite what it may seem, I don't think they would simply ban something arbitrarily. They banned ICOs and exchanges because they were protecting their economy from capital outflows, and mining accomplishes the exact opposite of that. They're not going to touch it unless it's a potential threat, and it really isn't. It even makes money flow in. Mining in China should be safe for a while.
2578  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A Question for all on: December 05, 2017, 01:58:17 AM
This isn't very likely at all and I have no idea why people think this will realistically happen in their lifetimes. If you were transferring to an address, there's no reason not to use the copy and paste feature. This means it's nearly impossible for you to receive Bitcoins out of the blue unless the sender makes an honest mistake, like in campaigns, but your address would have to be in it so you would know who actually sent it, and the sender would know who he sent it to.

Taking all that into consideration, just send the coins back like you would physical money. You don't own it, and you certainly wouldn't like it if it happened to you.
2579  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Kenyan Police Arrest Bitcoin Traders Due to Alleged Banking Fraud on: December 05, 2017, 01:48:09 AM
Lmao they must have thought they would be safe if they weren't using an exchange. Localbitcoins would surely cooperate with the authorities when dealing with that large of an amount. I'm sure they wouldn't want to risk getting banned in Kenya.

It's good that they were caught, but it doesn't look like Bitcoin can shake off its criminal-friendly roots anytime soon. These guys obviously thought they could hide the money using Bitcoin, and while they failed, it's not hard to imagine that people who know what they're doing can get away with this. It's things like this that pushes governments into more stringent regulations.
2580  Economy / Economics / Re: Forking of Bitcoin into new coins, a step too far? on: December 04, 2017, 08:46:59 AM
I don't think so. I guess it could be a little complex once they start trying to claim airdrops and stuff, but otherwise, getting into Bitcoins is pretty much the same as before these forks started popping up. If you think about it, questions about forks have nothing to do with Bitcoin itself. The steps in investing is exactly the same, except there are a few optional steps on top of it. All newbies really need to know is that these are altcoins which only really share the name, and some of the underlying technology. It's a little confusing for sure, but nothing a quick Google search can't fix.
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