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Hi all,
I have been thinking about a possible solution to both the handling of micro payments and the scalability problem of Bitcoin.
Here what I thought. Sorry if it was already proposed and discussed.
I think that every guy that wants to make micro payments or accept micro payments should trust a third party, like coinbase, bitpay, and so on. [trust not really necessary, one could use a contract towards the third party].
When I want to buy something, at the supermarket for instance, I would load in advance, through the blockchain, a certain amount of bitcoins into the service I decide to trust (let's say coinbase).
When I go to the supermarket they don't have to use the same service as I am using to accept micropayments. They could be leveraging Bitpay for instance.
This is how a payment would work. The cashier would show me an address that identifies the order just made (just a code associated with the order, e.g. order 0 at supermarket A at bitpay). I would scan this code with a phone and send the payment by asking the society I am leveraging (coinbase) to make the payment of that order. To make sure I am entitled to do that I could be using one of the private keys that I used to load the money on the service.
After that the coinbase and bitpay society would clear the transaction, off the blockchain, by using a modified version of the micropayment protocol (for instance each of them could open a payment channel to the other). The transaction is complete when the merchant receives the ok from bitpay (so instantly). At the end of the day then the amount due by one service to the other is registered into the block chain.
The interesting thing in this solution is that the buyer and the merchant does not have to use the same service. Everyone use the service he/she likes, maybe more than one. The risk is low as the amount of money passed to the service is as high as one feels it should. After all, even now any of us has to trust some of these service when it buys or sells bitcoins.
I think this could be acceptable and fast as such micro transactions would go through just the services involved. The blockchain, however, would not be hit by a lot of transactions, because it will have to contain just the transactions made when the channels among services are closed.
What do you think? Are there different/better solutions?
Best regards,
ilpirata79
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Salve a tutti,
sono nuovo in questo forum ed ho iniziato a minare un paio di anni fa col mio pc di casa per curiosità (ottenendo pochi centesimi di bitcoin in una settimana) e ora, scoprendo il valore raggiunto dai bitcoin e avendo appreso la nascita di altre nuove criptovalute, volevo dedicarmi al mining di qualcuna di queste.
Ho letto in giro di questi ASIC usb block erupter in grado di minare a 333 mh/s e, spulciando qua e là, non sono riuscito a trovare un sito affidabile che vendesse questi "aggeggi" accettando pagamenti in bitcoin, in quanto volevo evitare di passare da venditori "in proprio" per arginare il più possibile il problema delle truffe.
Qualcuno può aiutarmi?
Te ne vendo uno io se vuoi per 30€ in bitcoin... meglio se di persona. Ciao |
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Merchants should just accept bitcoins and keep them, saving in addition some money for the fees, and seeing their wealth increase as the prize of bitcoin does.
Best regards,
ilpirata79
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If another coin shows that a different approach to verify transactions is better, are we (or better, the developers) going to embrace such new approach in order to keep bitcoin at the top ? If such technology for instance helped solving the scalability and the energy problems of bitcoin?
Ah, I see. The block chain is central to the bitcoin protocol, as is the hash function. I think it is highly unlikely that those parts will be touched. I think instead that the community and the ledger are more important than the technological details that should be changed if the necessity arises. Best regards, ilpirata79 |
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It might be easier to just change your wallpaper to trees, or something.
Is this a serious post?
No, sorry... I wanted to start a discussion on this kind of possible "disruptive" changes... If another coin shows that a different approach to verify transactions is better, are we (or better, the developers) going to embrace such new approach in order to keep bitcoin at the top ? If such technology for instance helped solving the scalability and the energy problems of bitcoin? Best regards, ilpirata79 |
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Hi,
would it be possible to change the current block chain to look more like a tree, as in the emunie coin?
Btw, what do you think of this new coin?
Best regards,
ilpirata79
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Why not multiple "bitcoin foundations" in different parts of the world?
Decentralization makes more sense than moving a centralized organization around.
An European Bitcoin Foundation could be based in Switzerland of course.
Agreed, but who has the rights on the bitcoin.org website? Regards, lilpirata79 |
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Almost a day with a miner less. What is happening?
ilpirata79
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HEY, MARTO, FOR THE FIFTH TIME: WHAT ABOUT THE BOARDS? CAN I HAVE A REFUND TOO?
ilpirata79
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I am also waiting for the fees and to know what is the destiny of the ordered boards on technobit. Can they be refunded? Is asking to much to have an answer?
ilpirata79
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What did I just say?  Best regards, ilpirata79 |
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I talked about what he/she adds for his/her work ("transformation of raw material/components"). The final price can be less because he/she bougth such material/components at a lower price. Deflation means that today's prices (your material/components) are higher than tomorrow's (ready product which producer sells). The producer gets into situation when he buys dear but sells cheap, so his profit margin narrows. When it reaches the break-even point he stops production and fires his staff thus contributing to ever falling demand (the cause of prices fall) My statements are compatible with deflation. I sell something today at price A, because I had to buy material/components which costed x,y and z and I added my profit (or added value) Q. Therefore A=x+y+z+Q In a month I sell something at, say, A'=A-15/100*A. I had to buy material which costed, FIFTEEN days before I selle, x'=x-20/100*x , y'=y-20/100*y, z'=z-20/100*z, and I added value Q'=Q+somePercentage/100*Q, so that A'= x'+y'+z' + Q'. In fact, I sell at a lower prince (which can be defined as defaltion), but I still earn MORE. I think deflation will make us all richer, apart from politicians and their lacché that will lose a lot of their privileges. Best regards, ilpirata79 |
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This is not true, imo.
If I need something there will be always someone producing it. If the producer is worried about deflation (if any, that is to see) he/she will simply increase the price for the work ("transformation of raw material") he/she is making.
This process pushes prices up and counterbalances deflation leading in the end to stable prizes (everything else being constant).
Best regards,
ilpirata79
Under deflation prices are falling - by definition. What you say ("he/she will simply increase the price for the work he/she is making") breaks this definition, that's all. It does not matter if you need something, what actually matters is the price you are ready to pay for what you need as an "aggregate" consumer (not you personally). Again, under deflation you are not ready to pay the price the producer initially asks which forces the prices down (and leads to all ensuing devastating effects on the economy) - all strictly by definition I talked about what he/she adds for his/her work ("transformation of raw material/components"). The final price can be less because he/she bougth such material/components at a lower price. Best regards, ilpirata79 |
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I don't see the problem for the producer. Could you explain it?
Easily. Under deflation it is less profitable and more risky to produce goods. A producer buys raw materials and makes his merchandise today (when prices are higher) but sells tomorrow when prices are lower, so there is no incentive to expand production or may be even keep it at the same level. In detail it is explained in any decent economic textbook This is not true, imo. If I need something there will be always someone producing it. If the producer is worried about deflation (if any, that is to see) he/she will simply increase the price for the work ("transformation of raw material") he/she is making. This process pushes prices up and counterbalances deflation leading in the end to stable prizes (everything else being constant). Best regards, ilpirata79 |
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Bears sitting at 266 $ are going to get just another lesson on how dangerous migth be to short bitcoins...
Best regards,
ilpirata79
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Instead of calling it mBTC, give it a fancy name as someone suggested: ringo and things like that Best regards, ilpirata79 |
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Hi ragingazn628,
I have looked at the spreadsheet, but I could not find my name.
I am still in the 5th Saturn miner with 10 shares (equivalent to 5 BTC).
Best regards,
ilpirata79
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Hi Marto,
I have ordered 4 hex16 boards on your website. Is it possible for you to sell such boards to someone else?
I would like a lot to recover the money for them...
Best regards,
ilpirata79
Just brought some chips @ auction for 0.016 each so for 1 board that's 0.256 + Hex (@ 50 euro) 0.6 btc So your looking at 0.86 btc per board.. P.S sorry marto for out bidding you. Hope that won't slow down you making my boards.. Edit : even just the board cost is negative ROI so you probably need to just give your chips away. I did not understand. I would like to sell my paid order for 4 hex 16 boards to anyone for 40€ each. That needs however the collaboration of marto that would have to change the shipping address to that of the buyer. Best regards, ilpirata79 |
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Hi Marto,
I have ordered 4 hex16 boards on your website. Is it possible for you to sell such boards to someone else?
I would like a lot to recover the money for them...
Best regards,
ilpirata79
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If I can get a few million satoshis per month as a bonus to offset the cost of burning a few kilowatt hours of electricity to heat my home in the winter, why not?
If I can also contribute to the strength of the network, even better.
My post refers to the attempt at making a profit by mining bitcoins. Heating your home in winter is another story. Regarding the security of the network, it is probably good that different asic companies fight with each other to produce more efficient products. The only thing is that they should do that with their money, not ours. Best regards, ilpirata79 |
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