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3461  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: GHash.IO and double-spending against BetCoin Dice on: November 09, 2013, 08:18:17 PM
Taking irreversible actions on unconfirmed transactions is not safe. This is not news.  Big hashpower consolidations are not safe. This is not news.

While I'm sympathetic about losses and don't support theft— it appears that many Bitcoin gambling services are run from places where their legality is probably questionable, and as a result getting help from the courts may not be an option— and even if it is, it's very expensive and takes a long time. Your best bet is to protect yourself by not transacting in a way which is insecure relative to the network that exists today.

The operators of high transaction inefficient gambling services (the ones with two transactions per tiny bet) have many times responded to the Bitcoin community members concerned about their services abusing our common network resources and costing money node operators saying that we should all be thankful for the valuable "test" they are performing and the encouragement it provides to improve the infrastructure. Some parallels could be drawn from people exploiting insecure unconfirmed transaction behavior …
3462  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Majority is not Enough: Bitcoin Mining is Vulnerable on: November 09, 2013, 04:35:41 PM
I'd like to think that people will agree to proof of stake before surrendering bitcoin to government or corporate management, but you may be right. People are extremely stubborn and consensus is a damned hard thing to obtain.
Proof of stake has thus far proven unworkable.

The main problem with Proof of Stake appears to be that is that there is nothing at stake:  In PoW systems you burn energy to mine, and that mining is only worth while if the chain your mining on survives long term, so you are generally incentive mine the chain most likely to survive. In PoS the rational strategy is to mine all possible forks constantly, because doing so costs you nothing.

Last I checked the, headline, best known PoS altcoin has controlled centralized signatures being announced to lock in every block.  I think it would be awesome if PoS could be shown workable, and there was a time when I was very excited and hopeful about it... but its beginning to seem unsalvageable. You can keep pumping the idea until your ignore throbby burns the color of the sun, but that doesn't solve things.
3463  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [BRAINWALLET] NoBrainr - a hackproof cold wallet generator in 1024 bytes on: November 09, 2013, 04:25:36 PM
Of course the dictionary is essential, but the point is that 1024 bytes / 25 lines of code makes NoBrainr orders of magnitude easier to audit and review, compared to any other alternative.
Not so, it just means that the security is outsourced.  E.g. your security depends on python randrange doing the right thing. Look how well that worked out for that PHP bitcoin shopping cart interface package.

Quote
This is a well-known brainwallet limitation that affects all commonly used brainwallet generators [...] At least NoBrainr provides random generation for brainwallets, which the other approaches don't, and provides strong 90-bit + keys
Electrum provides a whole wallet, and an easily memorable, strongly generated, 128 bit key which also has strengthening to help preserve security even if someone shoulder surfs the key.  Electrum has an enormous number of users.
3464  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: If you used Brainwallet.org - MUST READ! - Security Breach! on: November 09, 2013, 02:13:43 AM
It's run by "Joric". As was the similar wallettools.appspot stuff which predated it in the role of helping fools and their Bitcoin split ways.

I have some pretty fun IRC logs surrounding the creation of Brainwallet.org... e.g. Joric searching for guessable sha256 keys and redeeming them.

He was really resistant to using a strong KDF. Not because he's malicious, as far as I can tell, but simply because anything worthwhile is going to be slow in javascript.
3465  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Do pools make Bitcoin insecure? on: November 09, 2013, 01:07:29 AM
As they are usually implemented today pools create a substantial amount of centralization which violates Bitcoin's security assumptions. Today the unequivocal answer to your question is yes.

Even when a pool does not have "$pick_your_threshold" the problem still exists— E.g. a pool with 40% hashpower would still have a quite high success rate reversing two-confirm transactions (and will still be successful reversing 6-confirms half the time), or two 30% pools being compromised gives you a majority.  "Our security assumption is that _two_ computers won't get hacked, or _two_ operators won't be coerced" doesn't sound all that good (Also works for any small integer instead of "two").

It's possible to construct pools that don't create this problem in a number of ways— P2Pool is one example, though it's not the only way to do it— there are other ways that are compatible with doing PPS pooling, for example.  Though any way of fully removing the centralization pools bring requires miners to participate in and validate the Bitcoin network... and we've gone pretty far down the path of people with $100k in mining asics powering them from a rasberry pi, so turning that back might be hard even if people did suddenly start paying attention to the centralization pooling is creating.

There are also ways to go about pooling which may reduce the harm of the centralization somewhat without the full cost of having miners participate in the Bitcoin network. E.g. miner software that is skeptical about they work its issued and won't participate in certain kinds of bad behavior that can be detected without full validation.
3466  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Majority is not Enough: Bitcoin Mining is Vulnerable on: November 07, 2013, 09:26:16 AM
Call me old fashioned but I thought a research paper normally involves research (here: discourse with core dev), and also involves peer review before publishing. Or has Cornell abandoned such archaic practices?
On the subject of Bitcoin fairly few academics have bothered to communicate with the experts in "industry" (e.g. core devs, folks here posting with books-badges, etc). It's a shame: the failure has resulted in a lot of really confused papers which could have been very easily improve a lot with some expert pointers.

But there are a lot of broken things out there— e.g. no ethical review on experimentation, etc. (I loved one paper I saw that said something like there was no ethical concerns with their live fire privacy attacks on the unwitting public "because anyone else could have performed the same attacks").
3467  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: For fun: the lowest block hash yet on: November 07, 2013, 03:13:24 AM
Really the network has only done about 73.6 bits of work so far, our lowest is lucky. Smiley
3468  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Defending against Selfish pools with BFGMiner and GBT on: November 06, 2013, 01:47:02 AM
most modern hardware does not work well with it - that's why people don't use it
Most modern hardware works absolutely fine with it, your data is outdated. I have multiple avalons on it and am slightly ahead of expectation. Were it not so it wouldn't have 28TH/s right now— significantly more hashrate than the whole network had at the beginning of the year, with an expected two blocks per day.

But indeed, it's a smaller pool and has its own setup costs (including the cost of cutting through misinformation like the claim that it doesn't work well with most modern hardware... which is why I'm posting about _other_ things you can do. Smiley
3469  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Defending against Selfish pools with BFGMiner and GBT on: November 05, 2013, 10:37:20 PM
Nice, but you have to have a bitcoind running somewhere, which most of the miners don't have or they would already be going the p2pool route...
I wish it were so, but people have odd pool preferences... and there are bunch of people who run a local bitcoind/bitcoin-qt as a wallet. But want to stay on some pool
Quote
An even easier solution is to stop being a lemming and start mining on a smaller pool, it does not really matter which one, just avoid mining on the PH one...
Perhaps, but small pools are a different tradeoff, and the authors of the paper argue that it works for any size (Eh. no comment on the merit of that claims). Really the only cure for misbehaving is to control your own mining (e.g. with P2Pool) but local announcement is nice. BFGMiner will also detect pools trying to mine forks on themselves and prevents that. In any case, people have diverse preferences and I thought it was important that there were things you could do to improve the situation without going all the way to P2Pool.

Just having a bitcoind running and having solo mining setup as a fallback would be good for the network's security, since DOS attacking pools would have less effect and if several started misbehaving you'd be ready to switch.
3470  Other / Off-topic / Re: On client cultists on: November 05, 2013, 10:10:18 PM
You've drifted offtopic. All posts in a thread should be strictly related to the original post. I asked you to explain and you have commenced with adhomenim.
3471  Bitcoin / Pools / Defending against Selfish pools with BFGMiner and GBT on: November 05, 2013, 10:03:07 PM
So you've seen the much hyped "Selfish miner" attack paper, and like a good Bitcoiner you're not falling for the hype...  But, maybe it has you a little concerned... after all, we've got massive hashpower consolidation and the risk that mining becomes more consolidated in the future is a real risk, though a distant and general one, which concerns most of the Bitcoin technical experts even if the paper isn't all the media hypes it to be. You think Bitcoin is an independent good regardless of your short term income and you don't want a pool you're using engaging in secret strategic mining that ultimately harms Bitcoin.

Ideally, for the long term health of Bitcoin, you should be on a more decentralized pool like P2Pool (or solo mining) but perhaps that is too big of a change for you today, or you prefer a PPS or quasi-PPS pool.

Fortunately, you can make it much harder for a getblocktemplate supporting pool to participate in block-delaying without your knoweldge and consent:

All you have to do is configure BFGMiner for failover to solo-mining like:
Code:
bfgminer [...put your real GBT-based pools first...] -o http://localhost:8332#allblocks -u username -p password

This will make your miner also submit any blocks you find to your local bitcoin node, which will undermine any attempt to delay the announcement. It should also help your pool get a lower orphan rate, since it'll start the exponential spread of the block one round-trip-time earlier.

3472  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Majority is not Enough: Bitcoin Mining is Vulnerable on: November 05, 2013, 09:44:06 PM
You are surely aware that the organisation that controls (writes and maintains) the Bitcoin client used by the majority basically controls Bitcoin.
I am an organization now? Awesome. Do I get to have a charter?

What does this have to do with Luke's comment?
3473  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Majority is not Enough: Bitcoin Mining is Vulnerable on: November 05, 2013, 09:38:14 PM
Which is fine so long as Bitcoin's central bank's client
Huh?
3474  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Majority is not Enough: Bitcoin Mining is Vulnerable on: November 05, 2013, 07:51:25 PM
Whatever though. Continue to get yourselves worked up about an erroneous result.
what part of my post indicated that I was "worked up"?
3475  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: ECDSA encryption replacement on: November 05, 2013, 07:07:56 PM
Well I hope you understand that 'part of the seed' leaves a lot of space for a potential corruption. So I am rather worried about the other part...
None of our parameters are from a seed. Thats how the NIST *r curves are constructed. Our parameters are completely explicable based on performance considerations, unlike the NIST ones, and meet DJB's fully rigid definition (our generator point is random, as are DJBs , but if one generator is weak all are weak).

Here is code the reproduces our parameters from performance and security principles: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289795.msg3214237#msg3214237
3476  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: ECDSA encryption replacement on: November 05, 2013, 06:30:43 PM
Sad piotr_n  you were part of the thread where we reproduced our curve parameters, were you not?
3477  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Majority is not Enough: Bitcoin Mining is Vulnerable on: November 05, 2013, 05:54:56 PM
Would I be right in thinking that this attack is made easier by Bitcoin's rather relaxed approach to timestamps?
No. Timestamps don't come into this at all. (And most suggestions to tighten timestamps result in (usually minor) vulnerabilities)
3478  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: For fun: the lowest block hash yet on: November 05, 2013, 05:39:41 PM
2013-10-27 14:55:42 SetBestChain: new best=000000000000000000028c32e6952731326747bae4be8db0f832d6eea0362050  height=266381  log2_work=73.237967  tx=26093998  date=2013-10-27 14:49:44 progress=0.999972

In [592]: math.log((2**256)/0x000000000000000000028c32e6952731326747bae4be8db0f832d6eea0362050,2)
Out[592]: 78.65083195521588
3479  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Most difficult block vs cracking an Bitcoin addresses private key. on: November 05, 2013, 05:38:39 PM
So block 125125 was a chance occurrence yes, but if mined today that 18 billion diff mean it would be accepted?
Right. It doesn't have an 18 billion diff, but the hash value is low enough to be accepted by such a one.

It also isn't the lowest block hash yet.

2013-10-27 14:55:42 SetBestChain: new best=000000000000000000028c32e6952731326747bae4be8db0f832d6eea0362050  height=266381  log2_work=73.237967  tx=26093998  date=2013-10-27 14:49:44 progress=0.999972
 
Is vastly lower, and would be accepted by a difficulty of ~110,484,089,548,580.
3480  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [BRAINWALLET] NoBrainr - a hackproof cold wallet generator in 1024 bytes on: November 05, 2013, 05:29:44 PM
A 90-bit passphrase, *IF* randomly generated (as this script is doing), has
NEVER been cracked and it will most likely not be in our lifetimes.
Bitcoin has now done ~2^74 hash operations. I'm reasonably confident that it will do 2^90 of them in my lifetime, I am not confident that it will be the only 2^90 search.

Also the workfactor to break one of your 90 bit keys is less than 2^90 the moment two of your keys have been used... If your scheme were widely used, it would be much easier to find one at random. It may also turn out that your RNG is less uniform than believed and after careful analysis doesn't require a 2^90 search to match even a single key.

Your scheme also only generates a single address, so users are stuck reusing it, compromising their privacy.

In general symmetric cryptography applications 128 bits has arisen as a general standard. Is 128 meaningfully better than 90?  Is it meaningfully better than 120? Meaningfully better than 65?  Part of the purpose of having a standard size is so that you don't have to constantly engage in a complicated tradeoff discussion: you just demand that everything is 128 bits.

Is 128 bits more to memorize than 90? Yes. But relying on memorizing keys which can never be recovered via any other means is already skating on thin ice. People are used to it being possible to recover access if you forget— though sometimes with great effort. Crypto is different. Memory is just reliable enough for its unreliability to be surprising, especially since you don't remember all that you've forgotten by definition.

Of course, once you're up to that size you could just use the scheme electrum uses (or the one that it will use). Of course, the implementation isn't 1024 bytes— but neither is yours: The dictionary is an utterly essential part of the implementation.
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