Does Grain, which has 2 week coinage generate approximately 2 times more PoS blocks than coin which has 4 weeks coinage? Is it cumulative effect or are there some other variables involved?
Bump. Perhaps someone could answer. Its pretty difficult to figure out how this works. Not sure I understand your question, the period a PoS generation does not affect the total amount of PoS coin generated. The total PoS is based on the annual percentage defined. Whatever the coin-days you get will be paid proportionally. Ok, thats not what i asked. Pardon my crappy english. I try to make example. Lets say that Coin "A" uses 2 week period for PoS payments. Just like Grain does. So coin "A" block chain is averaging 4 PoW blocks per 1 PoS block. For example block order like this: PoW-PoW-PoW- PoS-PoW-PoW-PoW- PoS-... Lets say that coin "B" is using 1 week period for PoS payments. So instead of paying interest after each 2 week period, it pays after each 1 week period. In that case, does coin "B" average only 2 PoW blocks per 1 PoS block? For example like this: PoW-PoW- PoS-PoW-PoW- PoS.... Those are just random examples, but perhaps my question is clearer now. No, 2 weeks period means only the pos is allowed to be generated if the hold period is satisfied. It does not necessarily be generated, it could be generated at 3rd week, or 5th week (with all the coin-days up to the time it is generated). All depends on the diff at that time, how many people are mining pos, and target block time (pretty much like pow mining). That's why sometimes you see pos orphans. PoS orphans do not waste you any coin-days, unused coin-days will be accumulated and eventually the pos block will be generated based on it. So this time does not affect your block time, or frequency of pos blocks. They are managed by other parameters. |
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Does Grain, which has 2 week coinage generate approximately 2 times more PoS blocks than coin which has 4 weeks coinage? Is it cumulative effect or are there some other variables involved?
Bump. Perhaps someone could answer. Its pretty difficult to figure out how this works. Not sure I understand your question, the period a PoS generation does not affect the total amount of PoS coin generated. The total PoS is based on the annual percentage defined. Whatever the coin-days you get will be paid proportionally. |
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Ok, dears. unfortunately the pool operators did not show any interest, so I implemented the compensation in a way convenient for me. So the additional block rewards will be credited once a day for all past not yet paid matured blocks. The blocks mined by pools will be paid when pool operators confirm that they will distribute the rewards between miners in a fair way. Here is the first batch: Address 94p3gejUZwtMH53GAuFZQsTUmBcEFsdqAv 33 block(s): 107136, 105346, 105348, 102405, 105862, 107399, 107138, 101007, 106435, 100373, 102679, 104858, 106651, 103844, 100262, 100660, 102071, 103616, 103873, 106051, 107206, 101193, 106827, 105421, 100941, 102608, 105570, 107211, 100976, 106771, 105975, 105723, 107134, Reward: 165000 GRAAddress 97Cr1SmKRBG6TTVo9L7WMNwZYPuoqgjnR4 3 block(s): 100009, 100369, 100231, Reward: 15000 GRAAddress 98y7GBVuYjs92A1HaAVc94Pn5hzdyqfNL7 15 block(s): 106402, 106571, 106405, 106769, 106408, 106507, 106732, 106446, 106712, 106574, 106742, 106424, 106521, 106524, 106623, Reward: 75000 GRAAddress 97mHyuMsZC3RyU9p3JiX5xyDpYXDZZUFdj 339 block(s) to be paid Address 98ibu7sNSQMbmTkDCPfgKydSHF9p2JuecE 2 block(s): 100233, 100244, Reward: 10000 GRAAddress 9LaTaNvNyH1cvqFb18VubpgD1ETzKGFFpM 2 block(s): 103912, 103900, Reward: 10000 GRAAddress 9EAV4SyrdKQrs6Gg5s6RHTQW9urmQ3uNcL 76 block(s): 100481, 100866, 104514, 100869, 104838, 106924, 101003, 100877, 100494, 100752, 101009, 100626, 104339, 105492, 103598, 107030, 107106, 106479, 100892, 106525, 106654, 101637, 107056, 107043, 104868, 103463, 105641, 106154, 104108, 103214, 104623, 106160, 103857, 100018, 102021, 101560, 101817, 103994, 100797, 104384, 105921, 104130, 106891, 104205, 100295, 104333, 101705, 106954, 101196, 106317, 100943, 102072, 106962, 105998, 105977, 100828, 107102, 105826, 106899, 105702, 104017, 106343, 103020, 102802, 104430, 105725, 102898, 100467, 106001, 105847, 104953, 101499, 106108, 100605, 105342, 106837, Reward: 380000 GRAAddress 9LQMhsFJmpL5dWty6qPynj2tPCQDPdXyQR 5 block(s): 104625, 104636, 104869, 104302, 104985, Reward: 25000 GRAAddress 95QC6rNi7by7AqrSeRKYW6bosL2njQvkrA 55 block(s): 106625, 106626, 102410, 106327, 104078, 104429, 105616, 100120, 100754, 104856, 106138, 106415, 107410, 105785, 106271, 103840, 105640, 104491, 105775, 105776, 105777, 104377, 100795, 104380, 104202, 105534, 104134, 105543, 100940, 105424, 104915, 104021, 105430, 102073, 105432, 105817, 100189, 106960, 106596, 104038, 107409, 101180, 106258, 104427, 104301, 106223, 105201, 105939, 104309, 105974, 105719, 105976, 105724, 105341, 105941, Reward: 275000 GRAAddress 95PPNLACetPtPEQeVSBBi8JZFYaAU4kqxm 1 block(s): 100997, Reward: 5000 GRAAddress 9N8KwvfBJsx5Eozgy2hmRAVDTZ444zT5A2 5 block(s): 104219, 101171, 105347, 100782, 100190, Reward: 25000 GRAAddress 9C98tikfUPaDLLp31SueP2R86hga3RzyTJ 7 block(s): 106593, 106121, 106416, 106801, 106163, 105272, 105881, Reward: 35000 GRAAddress 9Pq9M7uudhPUT2ABioVK85Dzja3hfgX35F 3 block(s): 105811, 104390, 107207, Reward: 15000 GRAAddress 9HZGFFL32NvuUnuwjBs7WiVtaobYJkGxmF 5 block(s): 105744, 104033, 106531, 106541, 104126, Reward: 25000 GRAAddress 9GSWuQJU7qKoqNpqSG41dt6c7ZwpaRSsmi 4 block(s): 105417, 105394, 105741, 105774, Reward: 20000 GRAAddress 9FYjcwa2FEd9G5mCFmGWQqiK6i4RX7FRjT 5 block(s): 104448, 104233, 104322, 103699, 107243, Reward: 25000 GRAAddress 9QeAHKYCkzYVURrvynK5wYHyDmAtSYkX8E 2 block(s): 100777, 106399, Reward: 10000 GRAAddress 9J2KGj363dypL7BWPYJTjcWd9CehS3Z3Zq 22 block(s): 102401, 105218, 103697, 102677, 106137, 106146, 103339, 102574, 104379, 102590, 103744, 103241, 105931, 102234, 102492, 103136, 103141, 101991, 102120, 106229, 101879, 105720, Reward: 110000 GRAAddress 9StWjUHMHt3FfQXMKxtcDNRr3h26cKQKtQ 13 block(s) to be paid Address 9D3T2Z5naK5b7ECTgyXA8iUTzTikqzUpRp 7 block(s): 105545, 104943, 105999, 104601, 103002, 101883, 104765, Reward: 35000 GRAAddress 9DA7xJLTnNj3zNRJ15Kwe3yeFPGvxiB5ue 5 block(s): 103905, 105418, 104939, 105397, 103830, Reward: 25000 GRAAddress 9NXiJEyXaMb1MXMqx2shd8v49r6XBCCbUR 1 block(s): 107202, Reward: 5000 GRAAddress 9Rtmx2QcN9Sgv6ogpwBN2XWMMq3m6vgfD7 2 block(s): 100256, 100317, Reward: 10000 GRAAddress 9GKuXcesJSSjVfoHbbWCh73aesZLF4TTTQ 2 block(s): 107200, 107193, Reward: 10000 GRAAddress 9JbGwYMvTCZ9kDKfj5DevbW9kRzBtF2TpF 4 block(s): 107472, 107363, 107246, 106894, Reward: 20000 GRAAddress 952tV5x8oBrtJZ7GTGcLusufubBp4y92LL 10 block(s): 104035, 103863, 105241, 105422, 105199, 101398, 104599, 102617, 105243, 101468, Reward: 50000 GRAAddress 95W762WiTV8YwQ9ras2hrpSTpAhH8xBHhQ 24 block(s): 104321, 105623, 105498, 107421, 107166, 102821, 107308, 102063, 105907, 105274, 106047, 104513, 106306, 105420, 106575, 104023, 103265, 103906, 106344, 107516, 102890, 104045, 102012, 104319, Reward: 120000 GRAPayments completed up to but not including block 34710dc74f988cdbf553ab40ebe04fb155390ee511f7a8a8cb7a6bb31d5c557a Yours sincerely Very nice and detailed counts, thank you bee7! |
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Pool owners (udjin123 and oktasama): we found the number of PoW blocks found by the pools as follows: 6 PoW blocks: 9StWjUHMHt3FfQXMKxtcDNRr3h26cKQKtQ oktasama's pool
222 PoW blocks: 97mHyuMsZC3RyU9p3JiX5xyDpYXDZZUFdj udjin123's forkpool
please confirm that you will distribute the complementary coins to miners, also we need you guys to comfirm the addresses, the pool addresses are always not very clear to me,  , so need your confirmation what address we should send. Then we will send the complementary coins to you. For all the rest, the coins will be sent to you by our script soon. Each PoW block will entitle 3000 GRAs compensation that we will send out soon (within a day or two). And afterwards this will be done automatically by our script on daily basis, until the issue is fixed or we change 12x to 3x for the pow adjustment. This might take up to a month or so. We don't want immediately another fork. That's right, i haved checked with the block time and pool's block time. And, i think 3000 is too small, Because of x12 has stretched, and, it will go to 3x, Addtional x3 (12/3 - 1) is the fair amount, 1536 * 3= 4608 And, compensate x8/x64 blocks also ? Just kidding, In fact, i wish to make the difference way, Make a big events to get more miner instead of free coin, It will give us more benefit when consider the long term mkimid, I like your math, and it makes sense. After discussions we decided to compensate each PoW block by 5000 GRAs.  The Grain Dev Team cares a lot about our miner community and we want you to be happy. Of course, we can not sustain the support like this for long term. We will release a new version of Grain this weekend or early next week, targeting a switch over by the end of next week. This new release will change max PoW blocktime from 12X to 3X, so hopefully the issue with PoW will permanently be fixed. Meantime, please help to promote Grain, we will start a promotion campaign after the issues be fixed. We are in the process of sending out the complimentary coins, stay tuned |
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Pool owners (udjin123 and oktasama): we found the number of PoW blocks found by the pools as follows: 6 PoW blocks: 9StWjUHMHt3FfQXMKxtcDNRr3h26cKQKtQ oktasama's pool
222 PoW blocks: 97mHyuMsZC3RyU9p3JiX5xyDpYXDZZUFdj udjin123's forkpool
please confirm that you will distribute the complementary coins to miners, also we need you guys to comfirm the addresses, the pool addresses are always not very clear to me, , so need your confirmation what address we should send. Then we will send the complementary coins to you. For all the rest, the coins will be sent to you by our script soon. Each PoW block will entitle 3000 GRAs compensation that we will send out soon (within a day or two). And afterwards this will be done automatically by our script on daily basis, until the issue is fixed or we change 12x to 3x for the pow adjustment. This might take up to a month or so. We don't want immediately another fork. |
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Well, back to mining grain, and out of no where suddenly I have a stake of 709.116429 grain. Which is awesome.
Will I now start mining the stake? How does it work? I'm getting small mined transactions in my wallet, but I don't understand what that large stake is. Will it eventually transfer into my main balance?
Just take a look at your total balance time to time and you should note it  Oh, my stake is gone, and it just went up I think. That's pretty cool. I didn't realise it did that. I thought they'd show as transactions. "stake" for PoS is just like "immature" for PoW, after 50 confirmations (same as minted blocks for PoW), the coins in "stake" or "immature" will become mature and be added to the total balance. |
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Great, thanks. Sent some donations to you |
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I sent a PM to the pool owners, that we will coordinate the complementary coins payout. The pool will receive the complementary coins and they will distribute to their miners. If you are solo mining, then you will receive the complementary coins directly. Dear Graincoin mining pool owners, Due to the recent issues with PoS blocks interacting with PoW blocks, the mining of PoW blocks become a bit difficult, the block time increases and thus cause the diff to increase. To compensate this issue, the Graincoin Dev Team decided to send complimentary coins for each PoW block mined, before the above issue is fixed. For each block mined, we will send 3K-5K (to be determined) to the same address of payout of the PoW block. See this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361503.msg4511235#msg4511235bee7 and I are implementing the automatic script, which will send complementary coins on daily basis, according to all the PoW blocks mined. As a pool owner, please distribute the complementary coins to the miners proportionally. Please let us know if you see any problems, and we will help as needed. Thanks. Bosian |
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Also I see some discussions about premine. I saw this kind of messages in every single thread where the coin is premined. Let me answer for the last time some concerns about the premine, and from this point on, all premine questions will be ignored. The premine is stated publicly since the launch of the coin. The premined coins are and will be used for dev/support, promo, marketing, giveaways, bounties, graphics, websites, etc. I think premine is needed as many zero-premined coins (even some premined coins) have been abandoned by the dev and no further dev and build of them. In a long run it is bad for the coin, although some may still be traded and mined. Some people are curious about how we use the fund. Sorry guys, we will never make it public. I never see a single coin made it public. It is stupid to reveal all our secrets, plans etc so haters can do sabotage and damage. We are not doing a quick pump and dump, we are building the long term potential of the coin, slowly but steadily. What if you are really mad and think it's unfair for the dev to premine? I'd suggest two solutions : (a) create your own coin, you can do whatever you like. Or (b). go and mine a zero-premined coin (there are plenty, and we can see how long each will exist ). |
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Bee7 has a great idea, which I think is a good compensation for the miners:
For now and before the issue is fixed (like we change to 3X for max PoW adjustment), the Grain dev team will send a compensation of 2K-5K for each PoW block mined, to the payout block address of that block. We will try to do it with a script in an automatic way. This will be done for all PoW blocks starting from block 100000. Before the script ready, we can send payout based on screenshots from solo miners and counts from pools.
I still need to determine the exact amount of complementary payout (possibly 5K) so that we will sustain at least for a month. Of course this can't go forever, but for now it is a good and reasonable way to move forward.
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There are TWO KIND OF VIEW POINT
Currently, the block time of PoW is 6 minutes, 12X extended due to 12 PoS
FIRST, if cost of coin is 12X higher than the current coin cost, no body will complain,
SECOND, if block time is same as before, such as 30S even little longer, no body will complain,
Actually, it is the very difficult to resolved issues in PoW/PoS coin concept,
The best way is the first way, but, it takes too long time, the maker is catch up, and
it will force to miner to find the other coin,
and, become worst and worst,
If miner consider the long term view, this kind of issues will not be made,
I wish we need to understand PoW/PoS concept,
and, this coin can not compare with the simple PoW only concept.
Yes I agree. |
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One possible way to solve the PoW block time too long issue is to decrease the max allowed PoW block time, which is currently set at 12X normal time. This means due to the generation of PoS blocks, the PoW block time can be extended to 12X normal time (of course when PoS generation decreases, the PoW block time will decrease and go back to target time). The PoW target time extension is needed in order to maintain the overall block target time. We could decrease the max allowed PoW block to 3X normal time. Actually I noticed that Novacoin did this patch many months after they launched the coin. We could do the same. This will make the delay of the PoW less significant. However, this will require another hard fork, which is why I am reluctant to do. If the community thinks this is needed, I can make the changes. Again, the PoS issues I discussed before the release of Version 1.3. Please refer to it (link below) and understand the pros and cons of the PoS blocks. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361503.msg4419112#msg4419112I think the fair value for POW block time extender would be 1X. But if, 3X is the down limit, we should go 4X, to have difference. But this info should be stated in OP/official site. You can't have 1X. 1X corresponding to PoW only. With PoS and you want to maintain the overall block time, the PoW interval has to be increased. |
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One possible way to solve the PoW block time too long issue is to decrease the max allowed PoW block time, which is currently set at 12X normal time. This means due to the generation of PoS blocks, the PoW block time can be extended to 12X normal time (of course when PoS generation decreases, the PoW block time will decrease and go back to target time). The PoW target time extension is needed in order to maintain the overall block target time. We could decrease the max allowed PoW block to 3X normal time. Actually I noticed that Novacoin did this patch many months after they launched the coin. We could do the same. This will make the delay of the PoW less significant. However, this will require another hard fork, which is why I am reluctant to do. If the community thinks this is needed, I can make the changes. Again, the PoS issues I discussed before the release of Version 1.3. Please refer to it (link below) and understand the pros and cons of the PoS blocks. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361503.msg4419112#msg4419112 |
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Please remember don't use 1.2 client to do any transactions. 1.2 client will only sync'ed to the old blockchain. Only use 1.3 client as this is a hard fork, so all the previous clients will not be compatible. That's why 1.3 is a mandatory upgrade |
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I used 1.2 : two 500k transactions and after it a 1k transaction after - all from v1.2 to v1.3. 1k transaction was successful. I've found almost all our old coins via salvagewallet. Please do update your official site with announcements, that's what official websites made for Yes I did update the website, thanks for the info. When you use 1.2 transfer to 1.3, it is normal that the transaction will not go through. You don't need to transfer when upgrade to a new client. Backup wallet.dat (always). Then clean up the contents in the config dir (Grain dir under AppData/Roaming), EXCEPT wallet.dat. DON'T remove the wallet.dat. Now start the 1.3 client, wait it to sync and download the whole blockchain, once in sync, you should be fine. Now do that with wallet.dat that you used in 1.2, those you sent to 1.3 should still be in that wallet. It's better that you use a wallet.dat backup before you do the sends to perform this. Otherwise if you don't see the balance, use repairwallet. |
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Please do a sync from scratch when you use 1.3. If there are any coins missing, you can try salvagewallet and repair wallet commands.
BTW, you said you have 3 transactions that are not confirmed, which version of the client you used? If you use 1.2, the transactions will not be validated. A complete sync should show the coins in original wallet.
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A person who I was considered as a big supporter and core member of the grain community, becomes so nasty, because of his incapability, really surprised me. But the world is big, and you see all sorts of people. I don't want to waste my time here to argue with a stupid. No point.
Whatever premine is stated clearly, in the OP, from day 1 the coin is launched. And so many giveaways, bounties etc are given away. The purpose of the premine is stated very clearly. If you don't agree with it, no one forced you to mine or own this coin. I don't need to explain again on this.
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I am not going through details with Jollyburner on what has happened, it's not good. What I can say is that a person post publicly like this shows what type of person he is, and I am very disappointed. That's all I can say. Meantime, the Grain is going great. We will have a better website designed and new marketing and shops/services/games that accept Grain. We have a bunch of new domain names on our website: www.graincoin.netwww.graincoin.orgwww.graincoin.info |
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Thanks bee7 for the support Remember we have bounties available for shops/services/games accepting GRA! |
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