[ANN][GRA] Graincoin - New PoW/PoS coin | Fast, secure | Version 1.5 Released!

[bee7]

I dont get anything from PoS, i have my wallet open over 24h with 400k grain in it and nothing happened. How can i get the PoS to work?

1) Coins have to be old enough (the last time you received the coins or moved between your addresses or the coins participated in PoS mining) to be eligible (for the grain this age is 10 days)
2) wallet should be unlocked if it is encrypted: at debug console window enter the command "walletpassphrase <wallet_password> <number_of_seconds_wallet_remains_unlocked>"

Edit:
to clarify even more: not all your coins considered as a whole, but the age of coins you get from particular transaction matters. So, you may have part of coins which are eligible already and part that are "young" yet.

[WalkerLi]

One possible way to solve the PoW block time too long issue is to decrease the max allowed PoW block time, which is currently set at 12X normal time. This means due to the generation of PoS blocks, the PoW block time can be extended to 12X normal time (of course when PoS generation decreases, the PoW block time will decrease and go back to target time). The PoW target time extension is needed in order to maintain the overall block target time.

We could decrease the max allowed PoW block to 3X normal time. Actually I noticed that Novacoin did this patch many months after they launched the coin. We could do the same. This will make the delay of the PoW less significant. However, this will require another hard fork, which is why I am reluctant to do. If the community thinks this is needed, I can make the changes.

Again, the PoS issues I discussed before the release of Version 1.3. Please refer to it (link below) and understand the pros and cons of the PoS blocks.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361503.msg4419112#msg4419112

GRA block cycle is 30s, 12times is 6 minutes, but as I see in the pool, it's 30 minutes cycle now.

You need to remember that 6 mins is for both pools + solo miners,
All it takes is 5 solo miners getting blocks and the pool block wait becomes 30 mins

You can check the block chain, all the POW block is mined in the only pool, so, I don't think this method works.

[bee7]

One possible way to solve the PoW block time too long issue is to decrease the max allowed PoW block time, which is currently set at 12X normal time. This means due to the generation of PoS blocks, the PoW block time can be extended to 12X normal time (of course when PoS generation decreases, the PoW block time will decrease and go back to target time). The PoW target time extension is needed in order to maintain the overall block target time.

We could decrease the max allowed PoW block to 3X normal time. Actually I noticed that Novacoin did this patch many months after they launched the coin. We could do the same. This will make the delay of the PoW less significant. However, this will require another hard fork, which is why I am reluctant to do. If the community thinks this is needed, I can make the changes.

Again, the PoS issues I discussed before the release of Version 1.3. Please refer to it (link below) and understand the pros and cons of the PoS blocks.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361503.msg4419112#msg4419112

GRA block cycle is 30s, 12times is 6 minutes, but as I see in the pool, it's 30 minutes cycle now.

You need to remember that 6 mins is for both pools + solo miners,
All it takes is 5 solo miners getting blocks and the pool block wait becomes 30 mins

You can check the block chain, all the POW block is mined in the only pool, so, I don't think this method works.

I don't know how to prove you that I do solo mining, but I do and quite successfully. As I already mentioned I have only 5.6Mh. Hmm, Yes, a small pool, in a sense

[Hellionator]

I dont get anything from PoS, i have my wallet open over 24h with 400k grain in it and nothing happened. How can i get the PoS to work?

1) Coins have to be old enough (the last time you received the coins or moved between your addresses or the coins participated in PoS mining) to be eligible (for the grain this age is 10 days)
2) wallet should be unlocked if it is encrypted: at debug console window enter the command "walletpassphrase <wallet_password> <number_of_seconds_wallet_remains_unlocked>"

Edit:
to clarify even more: not all your coins considered as a whole, but the age of coins you get from particular transaction matters. So, you may have part of coins which are eligible already and part that are "young" yet.

Can you leave the wallet encrypted until it's eligible for PoS and then unlock periodically to collect your PoS or does it need to stay unlocked?  Does the coin create PoS while it's parked in an exchange and if so does the exchange take the extra?

This thread has taught me so much, the community and Bosian are constantly in here educating/helping people out, thanks!

[bee7]

I dont get anything from PoS, i have my wallet open over 24h with 400k grain in it and nothing happened. How can i get the PoS to work?

1) Coins have to be old enough (the last time you received the coins or moved between your addresses or the coins participated in PoS mining) to be eligible (for the grain this age is 10 days)
2) wallet should be unlocked if it is encrypted: at debug console window enter the command "walletpassphrase <wallet_password> <number_of_seconds_wallet_remains_unlocked>"

Edit:
to clarify even more: not all your coins considered as a whole, but the age of coins you get from particular transaction matters. So, you may have part of coins which are eligible already and part that are "young" yet.

Can you leave the wallet encrypted until it's eligible for PoS and then unlock periodically to collect your PoS or does it need to stay unlocked?  This thread has taught me so much, the community and Bosian are constantly in here educating/helping people out, thanks!

Yes and no. The problem is that the PoS mining in a sense a persistent process as soon as you have eligible coins. It iterates the nonce of the block and finds the solution by the same criteria as the PoW mining, but another difficulty setting and with much less CPU intensive algorithm. So, if you have many inputs received, then this is not fine as you can't predict the time when you actually have eligible inputs. If you have only one input transaction or a few and you are capable to keep track of all incomes and PoS input splits - then answer is 'yes, you can'

[karky]

One possible way to solve the PoW block time too long issue is to decrease the max allowed PoW block time, which is currently set at 12X normal time. This means due to the generation of PoS blocks, the PoW block time can be extended to 12X normal time (of course when PoS generation decreases, the PoW block time will decrease and go back to target time). The PoW target time extension is needed in order to maintain the overall block target time.

We could decrease the max allowed PoW block to 3X normal time. Actually I noticed that Novacoin did this patch many months after they launched the coin. We could do the same. This will make the delay of the PoW less significant. However, this will require another hard fork, which is why I am reluctant to do. If the community thinks this is needed, I can make the changes.

Again, the PoS issues I discussed before the release of Version 1.3. Please refer to it (link below) and understand the pros and cons of the PoS blocks.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361503.msg4419112#msg4419112

I think the fair value for POW block time extender would be 1X. But if, 3X is the down limit, we should go 4X, to have difference. But this info should be stated in OP/official site.

[WalkerLi]

One possible way to solve the PoW block time too long issue is to decrease the max allowed PoW block time, which is currently set at 12X normal time. This means due to the generation of PoS blocks, the PoW block time can be extended to 12X normal time (of course when PoS generation decreases, the PoW block time will decrease and go back to target time). The PoW target time extension is needed in order to maintain the overall block target time.

We could decrease the max allowed PoW block to 3X normal time. Actually I noticed that Novacoin did this patch many months after they launched the coin. We could do the same. This will make the delay of the PoW less significant. However, this will require another hard fork, which is why I am reluctant to do. If the community thinks this is needed, I can make the changes.

Again, the PoS issues I discussed before the release of Version 1.3. Please refer to it (link below) and understand the pros and cons of the PoS blocks.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361503.msg4419112#msg4419112

GRA block cycle is 30s, 12times is 6 minutes, but as I see in the pool, it's 30 minutes cycle now.

You need to remember that 6 mins is for both pools + solo miners,
All it takes is 5 solo miners getting blocks and the pool block wait becomes 30 mins

You can check the block chain, all the POW block is mined in the only pool, so, I don't think this method works.

I don't know how to prove you that I do solo mining, but I do and quite successfully. As I already mentioned I have only 5.6Mh. Hmm, Yes, a small pool, in a sense

It seems I'm wrong, I will check more block to get the answer.

[Blackmet]

One possible way to solve the PoW block time too long issue is to decrease the max allowed PoW block time, which is currently set at 12X normal time. This means due to the generation of PoS blocks, the PoW block time can be extended to 12X normal time (of course when PoS generation decreases, the PoW block time will decrease and go back to target time). The PoW target time extension is needed in order to maintain the overall block target time.

We could decrease the max allowed PoW block to 3X normal time. Actually I noticed that Novacoin did this patch many months after they launched the coin. We could do the same. This will make the delay of the PoW less significant. However, this will require another hard fork, which is why I am reluctant to do. If the community thinks this is needed, I can make the changes.

Again, the PoS issues I discussed before the release of Version 1.3. Please refer to it (link below) and understand the pros and cons of the PoS blocks.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361503.msg4419112#msg4419112

I definitely think a 3x is needed. Because, as it was already mentioned, x12 times longer for a PoW block to find is absolutely incompatible with a 1 month of a coin's life and is completely unfair for people spending electricity and hardware life.

I definitely think (mostly because of the Jollyburner's posts) that the dev doesn't want to do a hard fork because the amount of PoW he is doing with his wallet of min 192 mil right now is quite good for him, and he doesn't want to change things.

[bee7]

I definitely think (mostly because of the Jollyburner's posts) that the dev doesn't want to do a hard fork because the amount of PoW he is doing with his wallet of min 192 mil right now is quite good for him, and he doesn't want to change things.

Did anyone mind to calculate how much the dev get from this damn 193 mln grain a day? Simple math:

193 000 000 * 0.05 / 365 = 26438  grains.

Taking to the account that the average block reward is 726852974.82745504 / 99345 = 7316.45251223 it roughly equals to 4 found blocks. Yes, this estimation is very rough, but what we are speaking about???

Edit: sorry, I forgot about block #1, so the more precise estimation is (726852974.82745504−500000000)/99345 = 2283.486585409, so 12 blocks. But I believe he deserves it for the work he is doing. Would you start your own coin on completely volunteer basis?

[rmindel]

One possible way to solve the PoW block time too long issue is to decrease the max allowed PoW block time, which is currently set at 12X normal time. This means due to the generation of PoS blocks, the PoW block time can be extended to 12X normal time (of course when PoS generation decreases, the PoW block time will decrease and go back to target time). The PoW target time extension is needed in order to maintain the overall block target time.

We could decrease the max allowed PoW block to 3X normal time. Actually I noticed that Novacoin did this patch many months after they launched the coin. We could do the same. This will make the delay of the PoW less significant. However, this will require another hard fork, which is why I am reluctant to do. If the community thinks this is needed, I can make the changes.

Again, the PoS issues I discussed before the release of Version 1.3. Please refer to it (link below) and understand the pros and cons of the PoS blocks.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361503.msg4419112#msg4419112

GRA block cycle is 30s, 12times is 6 minutes, but as I see in the pool, it's 30 minutes cycle now.

You need to remember that 6 mins is for both pools + solo miners,
All it takes is 5 solo miners getting blocks and the pool block wait becomes 30 mins

You can check the block chain, all the POW block is mined in the only pool, so, I don't think this method works.

I checked more into the block chain - went over 100~ blocks , these are the PoW blocks i found

Block Height   Block Time                   Time Since Last Block
99321   January 14, 2014, 04:26:19   
99313   January 14, 2014, 04:22:15   00:04
99296   January 14, 2014, 04:15:27   00:06
99289   January 14, 2014, 04:10:58   00:04
99263   January 14, 2014, 04:01:17   00:09
99249   January 14, 2014, 03:55:23   00:05
99247   January 14, 2014, 03:54:20   00:01
99230   January 14, 2014, 03:41:39   00:12

the average looks fine for the x12 rule (6 mins)

[rmindel]

I definitely think a 3x is needed. Because, as it was already mentioned, x12 times longer for a PoW block to find is absolutely incompatible with a 1 month of a coin's life and is completely unfair for people spending electricity and hardware life.

I definitely think (mostly because of the Jollyburner's posts) that the dev doesn't want to do a hard fork because the amount of PoW he is doing with his wallet of min 192 mil right now is quite good for him, and he doesn't want to change things.

If they take it down to x3 - it will require a hard fork - meaning more issues for idle workers
along with the fact that people have PoS blocks waiting, x12 will help PoS stabilize, when it does it will go down to normal levels
This is only because PoS didn't work for a while so there's a huge backlog of coins over 15 coinage

[rmindel]

You can check the block chain, all the POW block is mined in the only pool, so, I don't think this method works.

I checked more into the block chain - went over 100~ blocks , these are the PoW blocks i found

Block Height   Block Time                   Time Since Last Block
99321   January 14, 2014, 04:26:19   
99313   January 14, 2014, 04:22:15   00:04
99296   January 14, 2014, 04:15:27   00:06
99289   January 14, 2014, 04:10:58   00:04
99263   January 14, 2014, 04:01:17   00:09
99249   January 14, 2014, 03:55:23   00:05
99247   January 14, 2014, 03:54:20   00:01
99230   January 14, 2014, 03:41:39   00:12

the average looks fine for the x12 rule (6 mins)

I checked further

Block Height   Block Time   Time Since Last Block
99321   January 14, 2014, 04:26:19   
99313   January 14, 2014, 04:22:15   00:04
99296   January 14, 2014, 04:15:27   00:06
99289   January 14, 2014, 04:10:58   00:04
99263   January 14, 2014, 04:01:17   00:09
99249   January 14, 2014, 03:55:23   00:05
99247   January 14, 2014, 03:54:20   00:01
99230   January 14, 2014, 03:41:39   00:12
99214   January 14, 2014, 03:36:59   00:04
99201   January 14, 2014, 03:30:16   00:06
99184   January 14, 2014, 03:18:30   00:11
99166   January 14, 2014, 03:11:51   00:06
99164   January 14, 2014, 03:11:25   00:00
99105   January 14, 2014, 02:42:30   00:28

and it seems like between 99164 and 99105 there are only PoS - and it's way more than x12 block time
I went over all the blocks in the block crawler twice between them
I am identifying PoW by their difficulty because it doesn't say "PoW/PoS" there

Plus - is there a way to see more than one block at a time in the block crawler ?

[Blackmet]

I definitely think (mostly because of the Jollyburner's posts) that the dev doesn't want to do a hard fork because the amount of PoW he is doing with his wallet of min 192 mil right now is quite good for him, and he doesn't want to change things.

Did anyone mind to calculate how much the dev get from this damn 193 mln grain a day? Simple math:

193 000 000 * 0.05 / 365 = 26438  grains.

Taking to the account that the average block reward is 726852974.82745504 / 99345 = 7316.45251223 it roughly equals to 4 found blocks. Yes, this estimation is very rough, but what we are speaking about???

Edit: sorry, I forgot about block #1, so the more precise estimation is (726852974.82745504−500000000)/99345 = 2283.486585409, so 12 blocks. But I believe he deserves it for the work he is doing. Would you start your own coin on completely volunteer basis?

AVERAGE block reward? Dude, what the hell are you talking about? One of the amenities of grain is the halving of the blocks on some point. And the first batch of the most tasty blocks with largest reward is being mined right now by the largest wallet (bosian) and not by REAL miners who give hashrate to network, because a coin without a good power in hashes behind it is a bad one.

I only want an explanation - if this is going to be fixed, when will it be performed. Yet the highest reward blocks are being mined vigorously while the dog barks.

Does the dev deserve these coins, as it was asked above? Definitely yes.
Did he make this coin for himself? Partially yes, but in general NO - it was made for people. It means that even earning 25000 GRA roughly on a wallet while a common miner needs to spend 8 MHs on the same amount, when the overall real network hashrate is about 40 MHs - is this presumed to be normal? Hell no, it is not.

And I don't like the whole story of Jollyburner and Bosian, and the way the last one has been ignoring direct questions about PoS influencing PoW until this topic could no more be ignored.

[bee7]

I definitely think (mostly because of the Jollyburner's posts) that the dev doesn't want to do a hard fork because the amount of PoW he is doing with his wallet of min 192 mil right now is quite good for him, and he doesn't want to change things.

Did anyone mind to calculate how much the dev get from this damn 193 mln grain a day? Simple math:

193 000 000 * 0.05 / 365 = 26438  grains.

Taking to the account that the average block reward is 726852974.82745504 / 99345 = 7316.45251223 it roughly equals to 4 found blocks. Yes, this estimation is very rough, but what we are speaking about???

Edit: sorry, I forgot about block #1, so the more precise estimation is (726852974.82745504−500000000)/99345 = 2283.486585409, so 12 blocks. But I believe he deserves it for the work he is doing. Would you start your own coin on completely volunteer basis?

AVERAGE block reward? Dude, what the hell are you talking about? One of the amenities of grain is the halving of the blocks on some point. And the first batch of the most tasty blocks with largest reward is being mined right now by the largest wallet (bosian) and not by REAL miners who give hashrate to network, because a coin without a good power in hashes behind it is a bad one.

I only want an explanation - if this is going to be fixed, when will it be performed. Yet the highest reward blocks are being mined vigorously while the dog barks.

Does the dev deserve these coins, as it was asked above? Definitely yes.
Did he make this coin for himself? Partially yes, but in general NO - it was made for people. It means that even earning 25000 GRA roughly on a wallet while a common miner needs to spend 8 MHs on the same amount, when the overall real network hashrate is about 40 MHs - is this presumed to be normal? Hell no, it is not.

And I don't like the whole story of Jollyburner and Bosian, and the way the last one has been ignoring direct questions about PoS influencing PoW until this topic could no more be ignored.

yes. It halves. In the future. It is not halved yet. The 2/3 of the premine is already given out in bounties and giveavays. I bet that the rest will melt down as quick as the first 2/3. Don't tell me about the real miners. I am a real miner myself. I know quite well how this is used to happen here before. And I am ok with this particular  premine.


As for the "fix" it had been explained numerous times above. It will get to the balance soon according to the algo.
If you assume that the overall network hashrate is about 40Mh then my tiny 5.6Mh is the 1/8 of the total hashrate supporting the network? Are you joking?

@bosian. Please start the daily giveaway for 25k grains.

[Nullu]

As others have said, there are a lot of PoS blocks that are backlogged. Just wait to see if it sorts itself out.

Why does everyone panic so quickly about these things? It's not good for grain.

We have an active developer. Relax. If there are any issues it will get resolved. Right now it's all just speculation.

[mkimid]

There are TWO KIND OF VIEW POINT


Currently, the block time of PoW is 6 minutes, 12X extended due to 12 PoS


FIRST, if cost of coin is 12X higher than the current coin cost, no body will complain,

SECOND, if block time is same as before, such as 30S even little longer, no body will complain,


Actually, it is the very difficult to resolved issues in PoW/PoS coin concept,

The best way is the first way, but, it takes too long time, the maker is catch up, and
it will force to miner to find the other coin,
and, become worst and worst,

If miner consider the long term view, this kind of issues will not be made,

I wish we need to understand PoW/PoS concept,
and, this coin can not compare with the simple PoW only concept.

[mkimid]

As others have said, there are a lot of PoS blocks that are backlogged. Just wait to see if it sorts itself out.

Why does everyone panic so quickly about these things? It's not good for grain.

We have an active developer. Relax. If there are any issues it will get resolved. Right now it's all just speculation.

Only problem is the miner consider the cost in coined-up too much,
and, the most of miner do not want to wait

It will improved very slowly,
I wish the miner understand and have a long term view.

but, if you check the status of pool (miners), need a kind of way to make happy for everybody ~

[Kergekoin]

The 2/3 of the premine is already given out in bounties and giveavays. I bet that the rest will melt down as quick as the first 2/3. Don't tell me about the real miners. I am a real miner myself. I know quite well how this is used to happen here before. And I am ok with this particular  premine.

Please share info that 2/3 is in fact already spent from premine.

And btw. I posted in giveaway thread. Post #229 . Did not recieve any grain.
By the time i posted OP had not closed the thread or said anything about if giveaway was ended or not. After me theres still 6 pages of requests. What happened to them?

[Blackmet]

I definitely think (mostly because of the Jollyburner's posts) that the dev doesn't want to do a hard fork because the amount of PoW he is doing with his wallet of min 192 mil right now is quite good for him, and he doesn't want to change things.

Did anyone mind to calculate how much the dev get from this damn 193 mln grain a day? Simple math:

193 000 000 * 0.05 / 365 = 26438  grains.

Taking to the account that the average block reward is 726852974.82745504 / 99345 = 7316.45251223 it roughly equals to 4 found blocks. Yes, this estimation is very rough, but what we are speaking about???

Edit: sorry, I forgot about block #1, so the more precise estimation is (726852974.82745504−500000000)/99345 = 2283.486585409, so 12 blocks. But I believe he deserves it for the work he is doing. Would you start your own coin on completely volunteer basis?

AVERAGE block reward? Dude, what the hell are you talking about? One of the amenities of grain is the halving of the blocks on some point. And the first batch of the most tasty blocks with largest reward is being mined right now by the largest wallet (bosian) and not by REAL miners who give hashrate to network, because a coin without a good power in hashes behind it is a bad one.

I only want an explanation - if this is going to be fixed, when will it be performed. Yet the highest reward blocks are being mined vigorously while the dog barks.

Does the dev deserve these coins, as it was asked above? Definitely yes.
Did he make this coin for himself? Partially yes, but in general NO - it was made for people. It means that even earning 25000 GRA roughly on a wallet while a common miner needs to spend 8 MHs on the same amount, when the overall real network hashrate is about 40 MHs - is this presumed to be normal? Hell no, it is not.

And I don't like the whole story of Jollyburner and Bosian, and the way the last one has been ignoring direct questions about PoS influencing PoW until this topic could no more be ignored.

yes. It halves. In the future. It is not halved yet. The 2/3 of the premine is already given out in bounties and giveavays. I bet that the rest will melt down as quick as the first 2/3. Don't tell me about the real miners. I am a real miner myself. I know quite well how this is used to happen here before. And I am ok with this particular  premine.


As for the "fix" it had been explained numerous times above. It will get to the balance soon according to the algo.
If you assume that the overall network hashrate is about 40Mh then my tiny 5.6Mh is the 1/8 of the total hashrate supporting the network? Are you joking?

@bosian. Please start the daily giveaway for 25k grains.

Nope, I am not joking unfortunately. Just look at the amount of people that were on pools up to the moment when the difficulty jumped up and compare them to the amount mining right now. Forkpool has 30 MHs. The second one has a lot less. Do you suppose all those guys act like "Hey, looks like the net hashrate went 30x times up, TIME TO GO SOLO MINING!" Or where have they gone then?

When PoS was switched off, the net hashrate was 40-100 Mhs depending on solo miners. And right now you ask if your tiny 5.6 are 1/8th of the network, when the coin became more than 12x times roughly more difficult to mine? Yes. Your 5.6 MHs can quite possibly be 1/8th of the network.

Concerning your numbers and calculations - do you understand that they are calculated like a common temperature in a hospital? Yes, the reward is halved. Yes, it is not halved yet. And your calculations have got a huge hole - you're taking a rough middle (as far as I understood, yet I cannot figure out where these numbers are from), while we're mining THE MOST PROFITABLE batch of blocks.

Concerning the stabilization - it was not told WHEN PoW stabilizes. As soon as Bosian is a dev, I think it is not that difficult for him to estimate hours/days/weeks up to that moment.

Sorry for my English, it is not that good for forum wars.

[bee7]

Nope, I am not joking unfortunately. Just look at the amount of people that were on pools up to the moment when the difficulty jumped up and compare them to the amount mining right now. Forkpool has 30 MHs. The second one has a lot less. Do you suppose all those guys act like "Hey, looks like the net hashrate went 30x times up, TIME TO GO SOLO MINING!" Or where have they gone then?

When PoS was switched off, the net hashrate was 40-100 Mhs depending on solo miners. And right now you ask if your tiny 5.6 are 1/8th of the network, when the coin became more than 12x times roughly more difficult to mine? Yes. Your 5.6 MHs can quite possibly be 1/8th of the network.

May be you are right, but I still doubt in that.

Concerning your numbers and calculations - do you understand that they are calculated like a common temperature in a hospital? Yes, the reward is halved. Yes, it is not halved yet. And your calculations have got a huge hole - you're taking a rough middle (as far as I understood, yet I cannot figure out where these numbers are from), while we're mining THE MOST PROFITABLE batch of blocks.

The math is simple. The number of coins generated through all blocks to the moment minus the amount in the very first block divided by the number of blocks to the moment. Yes, this approximation takes to account all the PoS blocks mined to the moment. The reward for PoS blocks is much smaller than that for PoW blocks and I noted that the estimation is very rough, but it is something we may consider as an average block reward atm.

Concerning the stabilization - it was not told WHEN PoW stabilizes. As soon as Bosian is a dev, I think it is not that difficult for him to estimate hours/days/weeks up to that moment.

yes, here I would agree. However, it is quite difficult to simulate this process provided bosian most likely has no spare hash-power equivalent to the network's one. As the situation is not static (miners are coming/leaving network outage/e.t.c) any calculations in that respect may show incorrect results.

Sorry for my English, it is not that good for forum wars.

Nothing to sorry. I am not the native English speaker as well.