I agree, scaling in & out might be a great option for this type of situation, i know that's how I typically enter longer term trades (so I don't have to worry about picking a bad place to buy in, i try to average out my purchase price). Good advice for sures! best of luck with sick profits.

Even shitty decarbonated store band cola is in demand during a drought.

Hello, may I ask why Spotniek is still around? He's broken nearly all of the being rude, trolling, posting irrelevant rant rules. If MPOE was banned for it, why is this dude still invading every thread in existence?

He might have a good opinion, but hes absolutely rude, belittling, and I can safely say that I see him in too many threads to say it's good for the public image of bitcoin. I've not once seen him be nice or respectful & quite frankly add anything of substance to any thread I see him post in, he just rehashes the same thing over and over.

"Why do people keep saying BTC is dead?!" Because they only remember 3 month periods at a time so when bitcoin was low for 2014 they didn't have the insight to realize it was actually a great buying opportunity like the rest of us

I've heard of cloak, tbh I'll go read more on it now so I learn about it. Where would you rank it?

I don't blame you dude, lol I'm surprised he hasn't been banned yet for acting like such a twat. If MPOE was banned for trolling, how the hell is this dude still around invading every single thread in existence.

Well My question to you would be how can we fix it instead of rambling on like a raving idiot. Not once in there did you mention how we can fix any of that... and NO I'm not going to read your previous threads to learn "how you already said it many times", I don't find what you say all that important, so why the fuck would I take the time to do that. All you do is belittle, yet you wonder why no one gives you the time of day lol. I have googled bitcoin, many times, I google bitcoin at least once a day since nearly mid 2011. You act like there can only be ONE coin and that ONE coin has to fill every single hole in humanity. I never said that Dash, Zcash or Monero were headed towards main stream adoption, i literally said exactly what you said, if oyu had bother to read, that they fill a fuckin' niche market, you egotistical numbskull.

You are so busy trying to drive your point home you don't even read the posts anymore, you just click reply and regurgitate the same bullshit over and over and let me tell you, it's not effective. I can't tell you how many times I just go straight over what you say because I'm not in the mood for 16 year old mentality that day. You might have a decent opinion, but your delivery is shit... Take it as constructive criticism if you are actually serious about wondering why no one pays attention to what you say. Your grandious attitude screams 'I have an inferiority complex so I must compensate by acting like I know everything' when in reality everyone can see through that shit from a mile away.

I literally agreed with you and you still tried to shit on me. Grow up you fuckin' twat.

Listening to you go on about caring about bitcoin's public opinion is fuckin' cringeworthy speaking being that you show up on nearly 80% of the threads on here spewing extremely immature anarcho-garbage with the rage of a jihadi. The mainstream wouldn't touch you with a 10 foot poll.

I've put you on mute. Funny because we have alot of the same views, it's a shame you are too immature to voice them in a manner that's actually worth discussing, instead of letting your insecurities & ego get in the way of a friendly discussion about cryptocurrency. Fuckin' tryhard.

PS I love debates like this so please don't take it personal haha

I'd also take the growing pains of BTC any day to the blatant manipulation of our world's currencies being seen today. At least I can be sure that SN isn't going to print up 2b BTC tomorrow to pay off a debt, devaluing my holdings in the process. That's one reason I'll always hold some bitcoins.

Well, yes, you could say that, but I don't mean it as harshly as it sounds. In all honesty, I see most markets in this way, whether we are talking commodities, currencies, stocks, or coins. I even see US Medicare as a Ponzi Scheme (totally different rabbit hole for a different day).

It's not so much that it's a scheme intended to defraud, that's not what i mean. I'd mean more like that each one of us is playing the "greater fools game" as in, each one of us is willing to buy now because we believe there will be a "greater fool" in the future to buy it from us for more. I feel like when it comes down to it, the vast majority of us are here to profit and we do that by buying & holding. As more and more join the game, more and more "greater fools" get hooked in. In that sense, it really does take off like a ponzi scheme, and the rally would end when no fresh funds are coming in.

Ideally, bitcoin would be rather frictionless, you need enough liquidity to buy/sell without crazy price fluctuations, as you say. I feel like now though nearly every "trend" is exasperated by the immense amount of speculators trying to get in on the "profit train", of course now that this speculative fire is lit, i have no clue how we'd ever put it out.

Its a bhittersweet situation, because without BTC rising to 1k in the first place, it wouldn't have been so mainstream, yet now that it is mainstream-ish, it's main focus is speculation. Haha. I'm not sure that it could've happened any other way and still became as successful. I can't really complain and love bitcoin to death, so I hope you don't see my views as shaming the idea, I just have a really blunt view on speculation (that I'll admit is probably obtuse at times)

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it's definitely a recipe for rollercoaster prices ^^

Well, if the US Stock market is any evidence of anything atm, it's that it doesn't matter the size/market cap, it can be manipulated. We've seen single entities break central banks. A larger market cap isn't going to solve this issue by any means. It might make the threshold higher, but believe me, there will always be someone there to control it, no matter the size. There will always be volatility, & large deep-pocketed players.

Imo, the only way Bitcoin warrants a larger market cap is if it doesn't hold enough value to keep things moving. I feel like Bitcoin has become a niche passion that people dump money into "knowing" it will go "to da moon". It's a self fulfilling prophecy. This is the behavior that causes this cycle at the end of the day.

Luckily, there's more people accepting wages, paying taxes, & buying goods/services with btc now than ever. As long as this continues, bitcoin will start to be used more and more from it's true intended purpose. Wallstreet is weaseling it's way into bitcoin though, I can promise as the market cap grows, so will the players involved.

At the moment (and for bitcoins small history) there has been a severe imbalance of speculators versus users. The truth of the matter is that not a single person here is not trying to profit from BTC, it's a self fulfilling prophecy in that everyone here thinks it's going to the moon, so we all buy and it just happens to go to the moon... Tulip bubble anyone? Just because we perceive it valuable doesn't mean it's actually supposed to be THAT valuable.

Whether we like it or not, Bitcoins true value comes from escaping capital controls. Without it, (say if China decided it's pulling the plug tomorrow) it would be much less appetizing to our eastern counterparts and alot of the demand we are seeing at the moment would cease to exist, same with India... At the end of the day, we are all piggy backing off of the panic of capital controls from other countries, mixed with speculators speculating. It's the perfect storm, and I am taking full advantage but by no means do I think Bitcoin actually deserves such a high price without having as much functionality as some of the countries/businesses it currently has a larger market cap than.

PS that doesn't mean I'm not participating in the fun though, I just use human psychology to my advantage.

Lol. I like how I literally quoted him from a different thread and he responded to me like I actually got skin in the game. Bro, when the robots come, its time to hit the sack and drink some water.

Grats on post #420 Zadicar.


I do agree with you, I think its a losing battle that will end in charges no doubt. I am merely curious which coin actually has the best features though, as I do feel they will have their place in crypto. I might not like the fact that they are used for illegal things, but when it comes down to it, there's a good chance any one of the bills in the wallet in my pocket has cocaine dust on it from good ole Merica, as they say the USD is still more anonymous than bitcoin will ever be.

I know thats a shitty stance, heres a coin online that makes its name by providing black transactions, this will no doubt catch the eye of the feds. I do agree with you. That's why I laughed when "DarkCoin" rebranded itself as "Dash" in a poor attempt to try to renew their social image to a "fast secure payment network with anonymous transactions for the masses", it will always be DarkCoin to me... I just can't help but be curious which coin actually wins the race, after all the dust settles. The true "killer" will be the one that receives mainstream adoption and leaves all that kiddie shit behind, I agree with you.

LOL, so awesome, I love how it morphed from sweet helpful crypto-loving friends to haters hatin' by page two. God I love you guys.

In all seriousness though, thank you for the overwhelming response.

Spotnik, always nice to hear from you, I do have to disagree I think that anon coins have a small place in each crypto investors wallets, granted within due time. We can't deny that dirty money is how this whole thing started, I definitely can't discredit it, I'd love to know how much value flows through the black markets daily. That being said, I definitely wouldn't want to buy any of the coins now at these inflated prices, its something I'm willing to wait for later on, and if I miss the train so be it. The time to buy them was summer 2 years ago eh. We will get another opportunity within due time though, who knows which coins will be the ones to pick though.

I am a trader, so I naturally try not to place personal bias into my trades, this makes me look at all 3 of these coins very subjectively. I literally want to know which has the best features. I can't help but mention that there is so many opinions flying around outside of this thread, he said she said, that it makes it very hard for an outsider like me to differentiate between good and bad.

Also, I should mention that I have already weighed in each coins years of existence and their adoption levels. This does matter to me, but my main curiousity is knowing which coin is actually the strongest competitor under the hood. If it came down to your life, freedom, and bank account, hypothetically, which coin comes out as the winner? Which coin is most trustworthy? It seems all 3 of these coins have some sort of "distribution" scandal. Which is the worst? I do feel like Zcash definitely can't be verifiably trustable, this is a problem... that doesn't fly in cryptoland.

Side note: I would prefer we don't bring obvious holes in anonymous features such as the use of third-party exchanges and their ID verification practices unless absolutely necessary, as no one is forcing the users to identify themselves. If the user was truly worried about their anonyminity they would use other means of obtaining the coins to ensure their identity/data is safe. Consider these type of scenarios already automatically applied.

Also to the person that said I should pick better coins than BB to compare, I merely mean the use of Blackbytes and their anonymous system. Had nothing to do with POW or POS and everything to do with anonyminity features.

So far, I'm leaning Monero Especially about what was said with "RingQT" I think it was called. Thank you all for the great info so far. It's exactly what I'm looking for.

Thanks ladies & gents, I appreciate the riveting discussion. Let's keep this argument a flowin'!

dude must have hit a line of talcum powder

My biggest hurdle as a trader was learning to trust myself & analysis. At first, I had a really bad habit of always looking up the stock/coin/currency/commodity i was about to trade and read what all of the "big boys" had to say about it. All it does is confuse you, you will always find 1 person arguing in your favor, as well as 2 arguing against it.

This caused me to rethink my original analysis many times and either not take a trade or get out of one early when I was right in the first place. It was always painful to be correctly positioned but close out early due to some media source saying "ITZ DA END OF DA WORLD... PANIC RIGHT NAO" and watching the trade move in my favor for months to come...

Now, I trade with my own advice only. I DO NOT pay attention to analyst views & opinion. If I watch Bloomberg, it's on mute and the only thing I'm paying attention to is the numbers, the prices, the volumes.... The cold hard facts. Leave the opinions checked at the door.

I've learned that the media/main stream is often wrong, and that I must trust myself, as I am the only one I can trust to give me truthful advice that isn't rigged against me. I am the only one that has my goals & objectives in mind.

Now I utilize the "big 5" data types (Price, Volume, Volatility, Sentiment, & Momentum) for analysis and only use weekly charts with as long term data as possible. I do not day trade, I feel it's a fallacy. The only profitable day trader I've seen is Meir Barak (whom is a gap trader)... regardless I'm in it for the big moves, I feel you have the most amount of reaction time and the most amount of data (because you can literally watch for months before deciding it's time to palce a trade) doing long term trading and so this has always been my avenue.

Another option (instead of depositing USD/Fiat and buying coins) is to use exchanges that allow margin trading so you can short sell bitcoins.

Bitfinex & BTC-E are a good example, though you will have exchange hack risk (keeping money in an exchange sucks).

Anyways, say Bitfinex is 750, btce is 725.

buy the lower, sell the higher... Short (sell) Bitfinex 1 btc @ 750, go long (buy) BTC-E 1 btc @ 725.

When the gap comes near to closing, close both trades. (In Example, both Bitfinex & BTC-E are both priced at $742, close both trades).

Bitfinex trade = (1 btc * 750) - 742 = $-8.00
BTC-E trade = 742 - (1 btc * 725) = $+17.00

$+17.00 - $8.00 = $+9.00

You will lose on one trade, but win more on the other. It doesn't matter if btc rallies/falls $100s of dollars in the mean time, all you care about is the width of the gap between exchanges.

Eventually, one of your accounts will run low on funds (because it continually loses while the other side continually wins)... simply send bitcoin from the winning account to the losing account and balance their funds out... no FIAT involved... This to me seems to be the most straight forward way to arbitrage bitcoin in this day & age, granted it's a totally different concept than the one you have mentioned.

Also, triangular arb is another good idea, but bots have that one on lock, you won't find a single cent in profit from that one, trust me i've tried!!

Lol, I know there won't be any friendly discussion on the matter.

Which coin has the strongest features? I've heard each one has it's strong and weak points. I am unsure which has the least amount of weak points combined with the largest amount of benefits.

Zcash seems enticing to me, but there's that trust thing involved. How sure are we that the process was followed and secure?

I can't help but feel like Zcash displaced Dash/Monero because of it's superior features, but in reality, I have no clue if it's ACTUALLY superior. What do you all think?

Thank you.

Ps: I won't be arguing with you about it, that's not what I meant. I just know you guys will argue about it

Edit: Also, do coins like ByteBalls deserve a spot on this list? Are Dag chains going to be a future competitor? (no clue if any other coins in this list or elsewhere have implemented them it's purely just a example of a coin using a dagchain, just wanted to clarify)

Hey man, I'll try to help you, but I am quite confused on this last part:

This part i can verify is correct:


Side note:
With a short, instead of thinking of it as borrowing value and using that to purchase then sell, think of it as borrowing the underlying and selling it directly. For example:

If you are going to short 1000 litecoin for instance, you borrow 1000 litecoin and sell them (this way you don't have to actually buy 1000 litecoin in order to turn around and immediately sell them, which would be unprofitable in any shape or form). You now owe 1000 *litecoin* to the person you borrowed them from (regardless of their current price), to close the trade you buy 1000 litecoin and return it to them. The lender get's their 1k ltc back + interest, and you got to open your trade with leverage, everyones happy and whole by the end of the trade. This is a bit easier to understand this way I think.

The part I am confused with is, Are you trying to create a sell order for the trade you just opened?:


Please correct me if I am wrong...

You are asking to close the trade correct? #2 is 'Order type of 'limit" and under that i write 665 and then click "MARGIN SELL"'.

If you are trying to close the trade above, this is incorrect my friend, you are very close but you are thinking of "Sell" as in sell my trade, when in reality, you should be buying in order to close a short trade (because you sold in the beginning). Think of it this way, If you go "long" or "Margin Buy" you are buying. If you go "short" or "Margin Sell" you are selling. In order to close a margin long, you will need to sell (since you bought in the beginning) and to close a Margin Sell, you will need to buy (since you sold in the beginning). It's always the opposite of what ever the trade started with.

Instead of putting a limit trade for $665 Margin Sell, do $665 Margin Buy for the same amount of coins you started the trade with. If you only used 1 btc and have a leverage of 2x you only need to buy back 1 btc @ 2x leverage. Don't buy 2 btc @ 2 leverage because then you will have effectively closed your short position of short 1 btc and now opened a long position of 1 btc. Make sure only to buy the same amount you started with.

example:

Start Trade: place a 1 btc short @ 2x leverage @ $700 USD ea MARGIN SELL. You have borrowed 1 btc and sold both your 1 btc & the borrowed 1 btc. You now owe 1 btc to the lender.

Closing Order: you immediately place a "limit" order to close your trade:

since you did 1 btc short @ 2 leverage, you will now need to go 1 btc long 2x leverage. Place order for 1 btc long @ 2x leverage @ $665 USD MARGIN BUY (because you are buying back the btc you sold, get me?)

IF your order fills, your short trade will be closed out in the profits.

The only way you will be unprofitable in this trade is if BTC's price goes above $700 usd and you now have to buy back 2 btc for more expensive then you sold them for.


I hope i've helped, don't worry about the $50 bucks brother, call it a New Years hook up eh. I hope I've helped. Feel free to respond/message me privately and I will do my best to explain anything I did not make sense of.

Take care!

PS: Are you familiar with the risks involved with margin trading? If you trade your whole balance on margin you are very very likely to get margin called and lose everything.  Don't ever put more than 50% of your whole margin account into a single trade, that's just asking to get margin called. This is how the brokerage can lend you money to trade with... If you don't have any money left in your account they will close your trade and take back the money you borrowed, protecting the lender.

Think of leverage as a tool to allow you to trade more and not so much as a tool to "double" or "triple" your returns. With my true brokerage account (for stocks/commodities and the like) I never put more than 3% of my account into a single trade. I can take many different trades, but I can never put more than 3% of my trading capital into a single stock or commodity. I recommend adopting some form of money management as it will go along way to keeping you afloat with margin trading.

Ethereum!

But Hemp is the male plant that doesn't contain THC. >.>