Could you answer these questions:
- How many developers are in the team?
- Are you looking for more developers (can people contribute on GitHub) and or other help (translations, etc.)?
- Can you announce the launch more than one day in advance? You want the launch to be perceived as open and honest as possible.
I agree, it is good to see a fork with active discussion before release and dev that listens to comments.
I too am interested in the answers to these questions.
1. To be honest - we are two developers who are familiar with CryptoNote code, as you could see by our commits. 2. At this moment we don't really need help with development, mostly because core changes have to be done very careful and focused. But later after network launch of course developers are wellcome especially expirienced developers - we have a lot of work todo! But what we really need - is technical writer, translations, designer, someone to help us to support this forum. 3. Two days befor launch is ok ? Anyone looking to run this on Linux, I got it running on Ubuntu 14.04 (I think this should work on 13.10 as well). These are the steps I used: echo 1. add repository containing the right boost package version
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:boost-latest/ppa
echo 2. update apt repository
sudo apt-get update
echo 3. install needed packages
sudo apt-get -y install gcc-4.8 g++-4.8 libboost1.55-all-dev git cmake
echo 4. get honnypenny sources
git clone https://github.com/cryptozoidberg/honeypenny.git
echo 5. go into honnypenny map and start building
cd honnypenny; make
echo 6. after this you will be able to find the build results in ~/honnypenny/build/release/src/
cd build/release/src/
echo 7. start the node
./hpd
echo 8. start the client for the first time and create a wallet
./simplewallet --generate-new-wallet wallet_name.wallet --password change_this!
Thank you for this manual! |
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Rename it please. You may learn the lesson of PPCoin, now PeerCoin
Started new thread with name contest, but no luck yet. |
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Does POS fit in this cryptonote technology?
No |
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Hello Friends! I've started a new thread with discussion about project monetization (donations model) and offered there a new model, which is move focus from miners to common users: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=590520Please leave your feedback because as we see it is very sensitive point. |
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Hello friends. We'we decided to move monetization discussion of our project to this separate topiс. Befor talk about subject i let to myself a little intruduction.As i could see here, at this forum, profit of developers is very sensitive point. And to get success with some another new currency it is very important to find good approach to be received by community. With all this chaos of bitcoin forks creating a new cryptocurrency is not associated with some real work. It's even more associated with a joke now  CryptoNote is not a final product yet, it's just a bright technology in which we believe, and want to improve, but there a lot of work ahead (UI, services integration, cloud wallet etc). Now take a look to altcoins: there are no success projects where the founders does not have a stake. Or you just don't know about stake yet, don't be a naive. If project starts without earning model - it started to be abandoned. So, finally, our monetization model will be transparent and clear for all, but to be "fair" doesn't mean to be "moneyless". In other words: we going to earn with this project.
Now let's back to subject.Our announcement says that this is a donations-based project, but we met some arguments from community and it puts us on the thought to make it better. As it pointed by SlyWax miners already have big power in PoW coins, on the other hand using announced approach make theoretically possible for developers to build own pools that have more profit unlike others, it is unfair and leads to centralization. We've tried to move focus from miners to common users of network, whith actually use it currency. Each transaction is vote for donation of size equals to a fee of this transaction. For each block, we calculate the summary value of donations (summing only those transaction's fees in which the donation flag is voted for donation). Every 720th block we take the median of the average values of prev 720 blocks, and use this as a size/2 for donation amount to transfer the developers. This means that developers will get their earning only if net will be success(will have transaction flow), you know that most abandoned forks had no significant transaction flow. And it seems to impossible to manipulate with this votes - to make vote for some amount you have to spend this amount - no profit. Even mining own tx with huge fee will not move median until devs don't have about 50%. Long term monetization for long term project. Please comment if you agree or not. |
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I think that we need a big name for such an innovative cryptocurrency. + No *Coin because it reminds me of Bitcoin clones + Bit* because of the same reason + No Byte* because it reminds people of 2 ByteCoin which is not a good idea + No *Penny because it implies something small + No Night or Dark or Shadow because this currency can be used in daily lives, not just in shady transactions + No Net* because we already have 2 NetCoin The beauty of the underlying technology is + privacy (better than Bitcoin). It brings people more freedom + fair launch is about liberty too. No one is forced to do bad things. That's why every people in the world is seeking for freedom. Freedom means better life + long term development? I think this coin is built to last. It is a visionary cryptocurrency. Should we take a look at Statue of Liberty in the US. It was designed a French. France is a kingdom of liberty. Vladimir Nabokov published his masterpiece Lolita there. Without France, our people will never ever have a chance to read this masterpiece. People who believes in liberty in France also brings us an extremely controversial masterpiece at that time. I believe freedom will bring us a better life, better world which Statue of Liberty conveys in the physical world. Should this coin convey the same message in this cyberworld? I suggest that this coin should imply the beauty of liberty and freedom. I like something with "Note" because it reminds people of bank note or cash. That's why I suggest LibertyNote Thank you for this post, libertynote may be sound to loud(better to be modest). About France - it is coincidence, but i've wrote few words about JJ Rousseau's Social Contract in announce thread Are you French? |
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I may not understand what you are trying to accomplish.
If H1 is slow but does not require a lot of random access to memory, then you can run H1 on a GPU or ASIC, then deliver a set of indexes into the blockchain to the node.
That's why H1 have to be fast, as you wrote in shortcomings. If the blockchain fits in memory then you are doing a handful of memory accesses and the other work may dominate. If the blockchain does not fit in memory, then you are giving a huge advantage to people with large solid state drives (flash or battery DRAM) or probably better the ability to store the block chain in a memory kvs across multiple servers.
This may frustrate decentralization because you are better off just maintaining a connection to a node/pool with such a device than running node yourself.
Let's do some calculations to see what we have: To get hashing data from block we use: 1. Coinbase outs: usualy 10*32 = 320 bytes. 2. Tx hashes: 32 * (from 1 to 80) (80 is current bitcoin transaction flow) = from 32 to 2560 bytes With 720 block per day we will increase scratchpad from 92 MB to 758MB per year. Enough to make ASIC's stay away but ok for normal miners. Even if we will be a very success and will get tx flow like a bitcoin in next ten years, scratchpad will be about 10GB, not a problem even now. The real problem i think is to have SPV client with this approach. What do you think ? If you want to use the block chain for PoW like Ethereum to require miners to run nodes (but see above), then you can probably do something simple like:
B = block
E = hash function, such as Keccak
B(i) = blockchain data at index i (mod len(blockchain) or some such)
H1=E(B)
H2=E(B+1)
PoW= E(B(H1))+H2)
Could be repeated, but not sure that adds much.
Maybe that is close to what you propose, but again I don't see the point to using a scratchpad at all. The blockchain is essentially your scratchpad.
We do very similar: E' - first phase hash. E - final phase hash. H1' and H1' - is different parts of same hash (low and high) used to address random block H1=E'(B) PoW= E(H1 + E(B(H1')) + E(B(H1'')) ) E' can be a keccak(at least it should be as fast as keccak), but better to use some hash with more complicated instruction set as i said (64-bits numbers multiplication, AES/SSE) |
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Just sent 123.45 coins to @zoidberg2. Money successfully sent, transaction <964c444de985a0a2faa574ebea68de8b22db378be251d0391fe4d60855acc353> You can send some back to @bitkoot if you like Sent 10000 testcoins to you bro! Thanks all for testing! |
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If you want to strengthen the ASIC resistance of CryptoNight and avoid the slowness of verification,
why not use an a-symmetric memory-bound proof-of-work like Momentum or my Cuckoo Cycle?
Thank you for suggestion, will look at this. How long it do one check in microseconds? |
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CPU coins are heaven of botnet. Does Blockchain-based hash or cryptoNote against botnet?
WE ARE AGAINST ANY KIND OF CRIMINAL. Probably in future, when blockchain will not fit in a memory of a typical workstation with 4GB RAM it may became not effective to mine with botnets. But not sure about this. Anyway, it can be said for any ASIC-resistent project, isn't it? |
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However, the wallet needs to operate on the whole blockchain if I understand correctly. Downloading and sync-ing the full blockchain is not easy on a mobile device
Not really. When you creates a new wallet you don't need to read all blockchain that have been before, obviously there are can't be a transactions to this address you just created. (and wallet keys file actually keeps creation timestamp inside). You only need a chain of block hashes, that can be fetched very fast(Wallet data file keeps hashes chain to be able detect and handle splits in daemon). So it can be easily implemented in mobile device. Even for bytecoin huge blockchain the hashes in new just created and synchronized wallet takes about 18MB, and it can be reduced without big effort. |
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Using the blockchain is a good idea to prevent gpu mining in the long term (when it cannot fit in the gpu memory) because the slow transfer speed from host memory to gpu memory.
I'm not sure it could be a problem for realizing an ASIC. In the pipeline there is a step that picks up relative small amount of data from big set of data and fills the relative small pipeline memory (actually 130k is not small but in the future it could be). This is a bottleneck but not so big as for GPUs.
The problem with ASIC is not only the bigger calculation power than cpu, but the better energy efficiency. The problem with ASIC remain if it is possible to realize an ASIC not faster than a cpu but that requires thousands times lesser energy.
An idea: what about using the selector hash to vary the instructions sequence of second hash? In that case the ASIC pipeline becomes inefficient and similar to cpu.
mmm...do you mean some kind of polymorphic hash?... |
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Good news! We've added rpc api to daemon and upgraded wallet to work with aliases. Now we can see how aliases works. To register alias: Type in your daemon command: make_alias your_name 1DXMLdBWfhdJUwVTdJJZo9StboYHgbTeZC75iBJUSX7MP8D4GV4AVpPZAioqHjjqx41R2iAGKZJqoZ2hqzWgVskdVBJ9RR4
If your daemon is mining and if this name is not already used by someone else - you will get this alias when you find first a block. When it happend you'll see smth like this: [miner 0]Found block for difficulty: 80910
[miner 0]Alias "zoidberg2" successfully committed to blockchain
After it happend you can publish your short alias name instead of long address, and in wallet now transfer command can use alias names as well (if address starts from @ it interpreted as alias name). To use alias: Since you have registered an alias it will stay in blockchain forever. Possible to change alias associated address (change owner, sell out) if you prove that you own it (by signing update message with secrete address key). I've already registered @zoidberg address, and @zoidberg2 (@zoidberg address actually registered in invalid address due to bug ) - so you can try to send me some testcoins. NOTICE: To make it work please update software (pull and rebuild under the linux or get fresh linux binaries, macos binaries is not updated yet). Someone who tried this feature - leave your feedback please. |
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Tell you frankly, HoneyPenny name has not been well received by people.
Let's get new suitable name for project! (Announce: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577267.0) Main points of this project, that can be refered in name: 1. Of course privacy. Anonymity and unlinkability (even more then CryptoNote), etc. (twistedpenny would be nice, but you don't like pennies  )2. Fair project start/run, without cheats. 3. Long term development But the name does not necessarily have to refer to these points, do not need to hung on them. It could be neutral word, or nonexistent word. I'll pay 200 coins to winner, not a big value of course, it just a symbolic tribute to a person who suggested a good name. And will put "thankyou" words to project title page. As well, if there are some designers - please feel free to post names together with design concepts. This could be paid more generously or lead to long term work. NOTICE: 1. WE WON'T CHOOSE NAME ENDING WITH *COIN. 2. Befor suggest - please spend few seconds to check is there are no buisnes already exists with this name and if it possible to by suitable domain name. 3. It obviously should be countable, you know. Thanks in advance! We'll go back to development and will implement today alias command line interface, to check out if command: "transfer 1 @zoidberg 100"works ok now. |
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Does keccak in use mean that the coin can be mined using GPU?
Don't think so. Keccak is only a part of hash function. |
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Adam Back raises a concern on the possibility to run a SPV client on CryptoNote blockchain. He does not find a way yet. Running a full node is not an option to mobile clients like iPad or Android client. Do you have any improvement on this issue?
If you don't want to mine on ipad or on android you do nod need to have a node on it - Cryptonote wallet is designed as separate process and can be connected theoretically to any daemon. (or to few daemons to be sure) |
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Let's open hash-function discussion friends.I'm curious about the smaller scratchpad. Does that make this coin GPU minable? I would guess that it does (because the scratchpad will now fit in GPU caches), but I have not studied the algorithm that carefully.
......................
Since there some questions about PoW hash, i've started discussion about our hash-function in new topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=588421.0Everyone wellcome. 
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Let's open hash-function discussion friends.Just want to uncover our approach and show differences with CryptoNote that we use in our project announced here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577267.0First of all I want to say that CryptoNote hash function (so called cn_slow_hash) is actually a very strong protected from ASIC's with different CPU instructions set as well as memory consuming algo. cn_slow_hash works hard on 2MB scratchpad and most of this scratchpad are fits in CPU cache.  For now it is difficult imagine that will be possible to make some specific hardware which will be more effective than CPU and will coast less than CPU. But world changes so fast, nobody knows what will happen in near future. We've all seen how rapid technological breakthroughs capable of performing the computer industry.  Since cn_slow_hash created 2MB scratchpad, it's have to cover all this data, that's why they use 2 20 iterations, and side-effect from this pretty slow work (about 500ms on normal laptop, twice faster on normal pc with suitable cpu cache). It may slow down synchronisation process at downloading blockchain (that is not a big problem) and theoretically it may be possible to attack network - connect and send a random block to make peer calculate slow_hash for useless fake block. So, putting all together, we want to have: 1. Wide CPU instruction set 2. Memory-oriented algo 3. Small work time. Realizing it, we've tried to take a step to the side. Idea of using blockchain data as scratchpad resulted in this hash function:  Actually this is a keccak hybrid, which use external scratchpad. After each keccack round, psudo-randomly addressed[state vector used as addresses] data is taken from scratchpad and xored with state. Calculating each block PoW usualy hits about 1100 randomly addressed reading of blocks by 32 bytes. I used "performance_tests" with different scratchpad size to find out memory hardness: Warm up: 2161 ms
test_wild_keccak<400> - OK:
loop count: 100000
elapsed: 3020 ms
time per call: 0 ms/call
Warm up: 2158 ms
test_wild_keccak<40000> - OK:
loop count: 100000
elapsed: 3060 ms
time per call: 0 ms/call
Warm up: 2168 ms
test_wild_keccak<4000000> - OK:
loop count: 100000
elapsed: 3484 ms
time per call: 0 ms/call
Warm up: 2156 ms
test_wild_keccak<40000000> - OK:
loop count: 100000
elapsed: 8119 ms
time per call: 0 ms/call
Warm up: 2150 ms
test_wild_keccak<100000000> - OK:
loop count: 100000
elapsed: 8574 ms
time per call: 0 ms/call
As you can see, working on small amount of memory 100000 hash operations takes 3020 ms, meanwhile work on 100Mb scratchpad with the same operations count takes 8574 ms. Such difference(caused by the cache memory overflow) points to real memory hardness we guess. Wellcome to comment.
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Good news. Yesterday we've made some of network monitoring: http://honeypenny.org/state.html NOTICE: THIS IS TEST NETWORK!! IT WON'T BE SUPPORTED IN FUTURE. REAL NETWORK WILL BE LAUNCHED AFTER SUCCESS TEST.And then do not say I did not warn. Technically we ready for a network launch, but we decided to keep running test net for a while. Network LAUNCH will come on this week, after discussion about features options (donations, hash) will be finished. Follow this thread. |
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