isn't that actually encourages them to learn to make many accounts
while you prohibit users from creating multiple accounts

I'm confused thinking about your statement saying the support email address doesn't need to be displayed on the site. as we know, freebitco.in is a large and popular site that has millions of users
are you worried about something?

I don't ignore your point about that
I just tried to say the impact on the original users around me and also the possible effect on referrers like me.

still, people will be confused to submit complaints if you don't display a support email address on the site

You can say that you have got hundreds every day, but I don't think that is enough compared to the number of accounts that have been automatically blocked.
let's say half is botnets, the amount is still very much
of course I don't know the exact amount but if I look at the situation that is happening around me and also the decrease in traffic to freebitco.in, I'm sure the number of automatically blocked accounts is very much

never be sure to 100% on anything, you can get lost

I did not say that the pool of addresses was mixed.
I mean that is like the following example:

Gwaragwara ISP in Kuvukiland state has an IP address range of 1.1.0.0 to 1.10.255.255
in that ISP there is a pool of XYZ proxy server IP addresses in the range 1.7.8.0 to 1.7.200.255
then you find the IP address 1.7.8.222 and 1.7.90.244 cheating.
after that you conclude that IP addresses 1.7.0.0 to 1.7.100.255 are the IP addresses used by the proxy server and you make the system "who uses IP addresses in that range will be blocked automatically".
and unfortunately IP addresses 1.7.0.0 to 1.7.7.255 are not part of the proxy server and are used by domestic customers.

why don't you display the support email address on the site, so that everyone who gets into trouble can complain
that way you will get the actual number of complaints

yes, but it's not the opposite of the bit in red, so it doesn't make it wrong
because you could block the range in a larger pool, which is a pool used by operators to serve domestic customers.

then applying my first point in this post is a good thing
and preferably, display the support email on all pages including the login / sign up page because once you delete a user account, he will be directed to the login / sign up page

@ slaman29
You will understand and can judge my issue real or not if you read my last 7 posts starting with this:

Yes, you know anybody can send an email there but not many "anybody" know about that email address because you don't display it on the site.


no, I didn't miss anything
it is a slightly different subject, therefore I separate it from the previous subject
there I tried to say that maybe people who know freebitco.in from other people's referral links might not know about how to contact you like through this forum.
even myself, I just found out this forum a few months later. i know bitcointalk but i don't know if freebitco.in starts from here.


well, about blocking ISPs, you can say I'm wrong and I apologize for that, but I have revised what I mean by that in my previous post as below:



for this I am very sure if you are wrong, because I have proven it a few days ago as I explained in my previous post.
but it's just a report, I can't prove it further like sending the IP addresses I mean.
the reason I explained in my previous post and I also apologize for that.

if you feel annoyed with my report, just say it and I will stop continuing this topic.
I just hope you use my report as a consideration

this is an explanation of the ISP blocking I mean in my previous post :



why don't you try to think in a user's perspective
Did you know, when you delete a user's account then he won't be able to log in and because of that he can't complain through his account.

not everyone out there understands how all this works and not all of the freebitco.in users know about this bitcointalk forum
even myself, I know freebitco.in first than this forum

@kakmakr

I tried to help people around me but also tried to recover my income from referrals
I just want TheQuin to be careful in removing botnets so that the original user is not affected.
isn't it ridiculous if freebitco.in blacklisted ISPs with very many customers.
but I am just like an astronaut who has a point where I will not be able to return

thank you for your suggestion, but what is the difference between my account and the new account that I might make


@TheQuin

I'm surprised you look proud of the 50% decline in traffic and free rolls of games even though the wager volume remains the same
I think free roll is the beginning for someone to recognize your site and various features in it
and the wager volume is likely to come from people who already feel the pleasure of free rolls so they decide to make a deposit and no longer interested in free rolls

as you said before that if they gamble continuously then they will lose by house edge
so sooner or later I think they will stop because they run out of money or get bored because they are losing.

I think you will always need new customers so that your business continues to grow and grow
but it is precisely now that you close many roads to your site that might generate potential new customers

in my opinion, a decrease in traffic and free rolls of more than 50% is an early indication of the decline in the performance of freebitco.in
I think this is due to the many interesting features that are only for customers who make deposits and bet
and this is compounded by massive blocking of IP addresses
You try to limit the space for botnets, but this also limits the original user space on the same portion
because basically botnets and the original user you will not be able to differentiate even though you sort them manually because the requirements that you request are only email and bitcoin addresses
if you sort it manually and accidentally block or even delete an account that turns out to be a genuine user then this will erode the trust that people have given to your site for about 5 years

but all this is just my opinion
if you feel everything you do is right and feels everything that is happening is on the right track then you can just ignore it.


@ Jack

right jack, the first number is used by several cities in my country
I could have told TheQuin about one of the ISP's IP addresses but that would only reveal my location rather than recover my income from referrals as my main goal of reporting this
because I think my referrals are people who understand english
maybe they come from various countries, so reporting 1 country won't help me
I just think that if this happens in my country, then most likely this also happens in other countries

I want TheQuin to improve the way to get rid of botnets if what I report makes sense
because if it's like this, they are like farmers who eradicate pests using fire, so the plants will also burn.

@Jack

thank you for your attention Jack, but no
I am not a victim of the IP address blocking that TheQuin has done
I'm just trying to report the news around me that might impact my referrals.
I am not sure about how much this will affect my referrals. because as a user we are not given facilities for that. I only know that my income is decreasing.
I tried to see traffic to freebitco.in through a site like this:

https://www.similarweb.com/website/freebitco.in

we can see that the traffic has fallen by more than 50% in 2 months.
I dare not say that it was caused by a massive blocking carried out by TheQuin because it could also be caused by people's interest in bitcoin has declined.

----------------------

@TheQuin

so you block IP addresses at a certain range
based on what I know, if the IP address that you block is the IP address of the Dynamic ISP, it will make thousands or millions (depending on the range you block) of innocent IP addresses victimized because the workings of Dynamic IP addresses are random like the process of creating bitcoin addresses when randomizing the SHA-256 number as a raw private key.
That's if I don't misunderstand the word "range" that you mean.

@kakmakr

First, I did not use that dynamic IPs and did not record the address when I used it to test freebitco.in registration a few days ago

second, I am just like you, some time ago when your IP was blocked and TheQuin asked about your IP and you decided not to reveal it.
I'm just not comfortable when revealing my location

if my analysis is correct then maybe this also happens to many Dynamic ISPs and will cause a decrease in traffic to freebitco.in

but TheQuin was very sure of the system he designed, so maybe I was wrong

-----------------


@TheQuin

I have considered ISP with 150 million customers as a clue

maybe you have made automatic blocking on some IPs that you suspect are used by botnets

but unfortunately some of these IPs are the Dynamic IPs owned by the largest operator in our country.

so that anyone who uses that IPs will be automatically blocked.

I think this will block the way for that ISP customers to your site

so this is the same as blocking the ISP, because sooner or later the users will use the IP address that is included in your blacklist because the IP they use will continue to change as the Dynamic IP works.

and for botnets who may have used the ISP only need to move to another ISP.

so I think the effect will be worse for genuine users than for botnets.

Hi TheQuin

It seems like you have trouble distinguishing botnets and genuine users
Did you know, you have recently blocked the biggest ISP in our country (they claim to have more than 150 million customers)

I heard from some of my friends that they cannot log in to freebitco.in, but this only happens to one ISP
then I tried to register an account with that ISP and after a few hours, the new account I registered could not log in, so I concluded that you blocked the ISP.

Actually I also use the same ISP but on premium services that use a static IP address so there is no problem with my account.
but I suspect this also makes my income as a referrer fall dramatically because I think many of my referrals use that ISP, but I don't know for sure.

I mean not about recaptcha
I propose making a new type of captcha with a special design for freebitco.in
I am sure wetsuit can make it, it's just about he has time or not


in this era I think there are still significant differences between bot and human
therefore I am very optimistic if there are ways to stop botnets that exploit free rolls

------------------------------------

may I know, how much is the average BTC paid by Freebitco.in to pay for free rolls game in 1 week ?

Yes, it is true.
therefore we still have to add captcha images to create uniqueness
the function of the last digit of the balance is just to make sure that someone who completes the captcha can see the balance of his account
because what happens now is that botnets send captcha that has the same type as captcha used by millions of other sites

the difficulty I mean is for captcha solver companies, which provide captcha workers.
if you accept my suggestion there will be 2 possibilities

# 1. if the captcha coming from freebitco.in is not big enough for their income, they will not adjust to that change and the botnets that depend on them will no longer automate free rolls game.
that way, number of botnets that exploit free rolls game will decrease
the rest are only botnets who have their own captcha workers and for this type of botnets it is certainly 100% of their income from freebitco.in if they only target freebitco.in and this one cannot be kicked using this method*)

# 2. but if the captcha coming from freebitco.in is big enough for their income, then they will adjust the change and make a special captcha for freebitco.in*)

*if this happens then to fight them we must make changes continuously until we find good innovations to fight botnets

I just think that maybe those who use captcha solver services will not be as easy as now because the user balance is added as a checksum

a few days ago I tried on sites that use captcha that are supported and it is very easy, we just enter some kind of token code from captcha solver as an API and captcha is finished quite quickly

so if you add a user balance as a checksum I think it will be difficult for captcha solver services because they have to make adjustments to captcha workers as well.
I think it will be complicated for them because they have to make a new type of captcha service.

so freebitco.in ever used the user's balance as a captcha ?

@Jackg
I mean we don't have to use very many images

----------------------------------------------------------------

@TheQuin
I have a small idea like the one below but I don't know whether this can be applied or not

we can combine simple image and math
for example like this
we can ask the users who will claim the free rolls game to enter the results of the math operation from the last 1 digit of their balance according to the instructions in the captcha

example 1
instructions in captcha: "your last digit + 2"
then the correct answer for someone with a balance of 0.04497642 is "4"

example 2
instructions in captcha: "your last digit * four"
then the correct answer for someone with a balance of 0.04497642 is "8"

but someone who has a balance with the last digit "0" if he gets a mathematical operation "*" then the result will always be "0"
so maybe we should only use "+" and "-" in the captcha

with the last digit of the user balance I think it will make "a little" sure that the person who completes the captcha is the owner of the account (a bit similar to the checksum)

of course it won't last forever
they will definitely look for new ways to integrate
so we have to change the method in a certain period, for example 1 or 2 months
this will be a little like how Monero is fighting the ASIC device

but again I don't know if this is possible or not

Oh, I see

Is it possible for Wetsuit to create his own captcha server like Google does ?

yes, of course not all of them but I think very few can last for years

oh you, haha
I think of a special agent who deals with "botnetation"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

a few days ago I tried to find out about how botnets work through captcha solver
I think it's almost impossible for them to make a profit from free rolls if they can't use the lottery they get from free rolls, unless they get a special discount.
because the cheapest price that I found showed almost the same price as the free rolls game provided (1 USD per 500 captcha)
but I don't know if there is a captcha solver that offers a cheaper price

Yes, I know that and thank you very much
but in the end they will stop playing because they lose
or if they win they will stop also to defend their victory, because if they continue to play in the end they will lose also by the house edge because gambling is about probability as you explained before

so honestly I prefer new referrals continuously, because as far as my experience new referrals make a much larger contribution and slowly decline until they finally stop.

------------------------------------------------------

what do you mean by "having a second person"?

Yes
Maybe I'm not a big referral whales that have brought in huge income but I am also a referrer
What I feel is that there are no other sites that give a huge referrer income like this

But unfortunately botnets have ruined everything
I hope freebitco.in finds new innovations to prevent botnets more effectively without reducing referrer income

does that include user balance below 0.00030000 BTC ?

Oh, I see

it means that you do not really get rid of them

the last 2 weeks they took the lottery prize very prominently
if you add a lottery prize last week to next week it's actually a good idea and surely many users are happy

but if you do that maybe the botnet will come back by randomizing the portion of the lottery ticket ownership
for example, last week they dominated with ownership of tickets around 25,000 and that caused you and the team to detect them

then to avoid being detected from you, they will randomize the portion of the lottery ticket to be irregular
I think you should save the lottery prize coin last week and distribute it after normal conditions

if I could, I would give an idea to really get rid of them
but maybe I can't because I don't know exactly how botnets work.