John Doe and Richard Roe are vouching  for Tom Williams's honesty.

I was thinking of something like this.



The reverse will have the private key or a wallet.dat in qr code and denomination in plain text.

The paper represents the wallet with X amount of bitcoins not the bitcoins themselves.

you also missed this part of the Constitution

"All debts contracted and engagements entered into before the adoption of

this Constitution shall be as valid against the United States under this

Constitution as under the Confederation."

The clause from AoC I cited is binding on the states not the federal government.

Sigh... Ok now show me a citation which says the AoC aren't in effect. I found in excess of forty federal cases in the last 10 years alone that cite it as authority.
Since you've made the outlandish claim , prove it up.

From the Articles of Confederation.


I choose to be a free inhabitant.

If you agree with that you'll love this.


 

Now if anyone wants to be a "citizen" simply silently accept the legal fiction. Pretend there is a reciprocal obligation and carry on. They won't correct you that's for sure.

I choose not to play along and be a slave to a corporation/public trust/juridical society .

Thx for you input. The partial insurance has merit. Maybe the 2 parties pay a higher pool premium if they want more insurance

I slept on what you said. 
Here's a couple ways you can possible mitigate the scenarios you laid out.
1. A risk rating based on completed transactions. Pool premium for an individual transaction is computed based on risk.
2. There is a way to tell if it's the same person creating an account. I can't say what it easy because it can be easily defeated if people knew what the data used for detection is.
3. A higher reserve requirement.



This isn't going to be like escrow. It's going to be more like a portal. The correspondence (and other required evidence over the deal) will happen in the portal . No names of course.

The bottom line is you have to incentivize due diligence on the bitcoin sender side and you have to impute real loss on the bitcoin receiver side in the event of fraud.

There is also the dilemma of collusion between two parties to defraud the insurance. I havn't figured that one out yet.

As I said it's a work in progress. I don't care about making money. I'm a true believer. There has to be a way that eliminates the risk that is transparent, easy to use, timely and fair.

Insurance companies make money hand over fist. I can't imagine we can't do the same with the goal of just paying administration costs.

Of course there is going to need to be a bigger buffer. This is just rough math. I placed random numbers in there to see if without fraud the numbers would balance. They do with a 10% buffer. If there is a large period without fraud the pool will grow hopefully making an individual fraud trivial. There is still the problem of creating multiple identities and just keep committing frauds albiet only 90%. of the negotiated price.

The fact is something needs to be worked on to mitigate the risk to the seller of bitcoin.

Also it ain't my fee. The fee goes to the claim pool to create a large enough buffer. I like to think of it as a cooperative.  There would also be quarterly dividends out of the association fee prorated against share of total sales in the event there is 150% left over claims. In the event of catastrophe the association fee can be added to the pool.

All incentives are to be honest. The more honest the group the higher dividend.

Anyhow the numbers can be played with tell they work.

No matter what the person sending bitcoins will not be unjustly enriched. We need to concentrate on the otherside. They need skin in the game.

This is meant for big boys. Not broke bitches that can't put up 16.50BTC for a week while selling a 150 BTC product

I set up a sample spreadsheet of a insurance association pool. This will be a cooperative. If there isn't enough money in the pool to cover the highest possible single  claim you can't do that transaction...... unless you get sureties or yourself to make up the difference into an excess risk account. That basically means the more risk you put on the pool the more risk you also assume on yourself.


Naturally to start there is going to have to be a one time membership entrance fee to build the pool.

I have a single goal. To create certainy for the bitcoin sender that he/she won't get stiffed.

Anyway this is just random numbers entered . It is editable.


https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlwtyXDQr0s-dEFTbElqeVhfZ01mM0tsd3pzRnp0Z0E&hl=en_US

Promise to pay currency is a claim on future production. Hard currency is not. Hard currency has an intrinsic value and more akin to a barter exchange.

People's ideas of the fundamental functions of money and contracts is really screwed up since we have been using legal tender promises to pay for a generation.

There are 2 types of contracts

Executory and Executed

An executed contract is one the object of which is fully performed. All others are executory.

With bitcoin you are buying data technically.

If I trade a cow for a bitcoin and the transaction happens immediately or has no substantial delay in performance it's an executed contract.
If I trade a bitcoin for a Federal Reserve Note , that is executory because the contract isn't finished until I receive value.


There is another aspect of this that nearly no one knows outside of lawyers and judges.

Entering into an executory contract, like paying with an FRN relieves your personal liability only. The debt "in rem" remains. That is only extinguished when value is received for the note.

If the note is dishonored or not accepted for value you still owe either the object back or the object that the note purports to represent. The party can not sue you personally but he can attach the property and seize it.

I'm tellin ya. Let's just set up fractional reserve insurance. Don't give bitcoins to anyone that don't want to use it. 

I agree 100% with you. The problem is BTC are too much like mailing cash. The counter party can easily rip people off. We need to solve this problem.

We need transaction insurance.  Like I said before the party that isn't getting the bitcoins is the only side that needs insurance. It is definitely financially doable.

You people are serious dolts getting hacked isn't exclusive to Bitcoin. Fucking RSA was hacked. There was a Bloomberg article yesterday saying 100 billion was stolen from conventional banks in the last year.

Security is a personal duty.
Unfortunately the nanny state has cowed everyone into thinking someone else should be doing it for them.

That's been happening for 3 weeks. MTGOX never should have implement a realtime api in the first place.  More mature exchanges can't deal with the HFT bots. There is noway a small bitcoin market can. The exchanges are being gamed. In case no one has noticed tere has been a persistant ask and bid wall that has been sliding down in parallel for quite some time. Some jerk is going to end up wit alot of coins and sit on them till it goes back to $30.

THIS ^^^^^


The liquidity is very asymmetric. I would postulate that that there is no "free market" in bitcoin yet.

I really can't understand why it takes 3 days for a dollar deposit into Dwolla from a bank account. I Don't have to wait 3 days for an ATM withdrawal do I.

TARTER SAUCE!
or

So we are going to just sit here why this guy dumps stolen coin? WTF. Is there any proof these are stolen coins? i.e. where is the evidence via blockexplorer?

Well the good news is eventually the bot operator is going to want to make a profit and will reverse to drive the price up.

Yes very much. I read very fast so length don't matter.