Preface: Please note I might be flagged here on Bitcointalk as a new site operator trying my best to create healthy arguments, apologies if I have made any false impressions to any of you in the past but again I have been trying my best to address any questions/concerns/issues -- then was welcomed by the community here by getting flagged.

From the article Moon3D - Re: FUD Accusations we point out three main things:

1. We have a novel round bonus scheme (which none of the competitors have) that makes our house edge unique and dynamic, depending on how one plays. It's not uncommon to see our players win 10%+ on bonuses each round(!!!!).
2. The average house edge turns out to be 1.5%.
3. We never said our house edge is less than 1.5% only. From the article: "Previously, we stated our average house edge (1.5%) to be our house edge without providing the possible range (-3% to 3%). When pointed out by our community consequently, we admitted it would be best to provide the range in addition to the average house edge which is 1.5% to convey the information with more clarity."

Sorry answered elsewhere (should've replied faster here, apologies!), providing some data points: https://i.imgur.com/ioZkFZa.png

@Avirunes

Thank you

@StackGambler

There was a reason we sent out the email to the selected few. You received the email -> we credited you a fat bonus (unprecedented) without any issue! But as you pointed out, there was no terms saying it's limited to those who received the email -> I understood where you're coming from -> decided to meet the case in the middle.

As for the house edge, explained multiple times but our bonus schemes allow a pretty dynamic house edge. Can't really nail it / put us down by saying, without ANY bonuses our edge is double the alleged 1.5%.

Let me provide some data points here.

If you cash out at 1.25x with a 5% bonus -> your edge is actually 0.595238% rigged TOWARDS you, beating our edge.
If you cash out at 2x with a 10% bonus -> your edge is actually 1.86567% rigged TOWARDS you, beating our edge.

So it DOES really depend on how you play the game. Hence unlike other crash games where things are usually a sliding scale from 0% to 1% or so, ours has a bigger variance, could go to negative.

Example (to show it's very possible to win bonus): https://i.imgur.com/FlR5ayM.png

As you pointed out in the other post though your claim is not entirely false too, so I'll definitely acknowledge: https://i.imgur.com/cSb7Ppe.png

In the meantime since a lot of folks don't like how our edge has a huge variance, we are indeed looking to change some structures potentially in the near future actually. Just fyi. Thank you.

Oh just captured our conversation for those curious: https://i.imgur.com/YTpoyWV.png

His Hindi says "F*ck your pussy". How novel.

This is a lie(!!!!). You were NOT eligible for the bonus, you came to me with lies and demanded unreasonably. You spammed our chat in a very immature way. You behaved in a very derogatory manner to our community.

IF you were more mature, IF you were more reasonable, IF you were more appreciative -- THEN I would've partially credited you the bonus even if the Promo was for those who received the email only.

The fact that you're spreading lies here is disgraceful.

If you guys think Moon3D is a scam then please join our Discord or Chat and ask around

(Please note: I might have been flagged here on Bitcointalk trying to defend myself in the past. It's uncanny.)

Right I do see the difference. Thanks for clarifying. Well again at this point in time, I presumed the Seeding Event post doesn't necessarily have to be self-contained -- meaning one could just go to our jsfiddle on site (from our FAQ popup) to retrieve that piece of information.

And yes, we're not hiding anything, why would you say "I couldn't find it [jsfiddle] on their website." to make it sound like we're hiding our jsfiddle/code? You didn't look closely then!

More precisely it seems you brought the issue up, as a Seeding Event (from your definition) should prove the fairness of *GAME RESULTS* and *GAME HASHES* in the same post, whereas my assumption/definition has been that it's the main objective of a Seeding Event post to prove the fairness of the *GAME HASHES* (and all addenda are extra), as the community here is already an accustomed one. Hence this argument. Is this reasonable to say?

Oh I don't believe I ignored you... have I? And yes really appreciate your admission

Well you can say "Your seeding event was done by literally copying bustabit's" for all other sites out there, as BaB's was the first no (if you want to push for a point)? But at the same time, did we "literally" copy, or have we benchmarked? Imprecise language no?

On the note of language, I'm actually not certain what you mean by "interpretation"? Look Dear Respectable @RHavar, definitely willing to remedy if necessary but unfair for us if you don't specify what you mean + make assumptions + strong/enticing language + troll -- while the reader would obviously side with you bc you're trusted here and I'm not (in fact flagged, trying to defend my points all the time) right? I assume you mean interpretation to check if we know what we're talking about, is that it?

Preface: Please note I might be flagged here on Bitcointalk as a new site operator trying my best to create healthy arguments with the OGs/incumbents, apologies if I have made any false impressions to any of you in the past but again I have been trying my best to address any questions/concerns/issues -- then was welcomed by the community here by getting flagged


Why do you doubt it? Why would you never trust it, just because of the name?!?!

Contrary to your doubt(s), will address it here.

@StackGambler @Haunebu @rijaljun @traderethereum @Ailmand @nauane @Genemind @RHavar @xvids @milewilda

First off, there's been a mention of our history(!) but do search us on Bitcointalk (or online) and tell us if there exists any red flag we have ignored (if so then will address). Not just the piracy topic that multiple salty folks bring up over and over again, but even just ANY support-related (e.g. deposit, withdraw) issues. On the flipside of our history, I can only see 1. prompt Customer Support via Discord (please join and check) and Email; and 2. happy users hanging out with us in the game, sharing time and fun

And to such strong words (e.g. "nothing-but-red-flags", "nothing", "software-piracy", "not caring about their reputation"), at this point it's clear that one is exaggerating + making assumptions + speaking untruthful words to "tarnish our reputation" (although claimed otherwise in a separate post) by abusing one's authority here. Does our Seeding Event actually prove absolutely nothing?! Really?! Is that true to say at all?! Apologies if I was assuming the post doesn't necessarily have to be self-contained at this point in time for such a post, but the meat's there.

Regarding the house edge, please note multiple things: 1. we have the 1% Round Bonus which the current BaB does not have; 2. we have a 1% Referee Bonus; 3. we in fact have a different Round Bonus mechanism that can help users technically beat our house edge entirely(!). For instance, it has not been uncommon to see a bonus of 100%+ (e.g. meaning if you cash out at 2x, it's actually equivalent to cashing out at 3x+) in which case the player would in fact end up beating the edge.

Example: https://i.imgur.com/F4bkqYp.png

Also I'm surprised no one brought this up but @StackGambler why is "Expected median: 1.975x"?!?!

If your expected median is 1.975x, then:
50% chance, crash point > 1.975x => +97.5% in profit (assuming that's your cashout point)
50% chance, crash point < 1.975x => -100% in profit

Expected value = 50% * (+97.5%) + 50% * (-100%) = -1.25%
House edge = -1 * (Expected value) = 1.25%

So the fact that you got a median of 1.94x for Moon3D means:
50% chance, crash point > 1.94x => +94% in profit
50% chance, crash point < 1.94x => -100% in profit

Expected value = 50% * (+94%) + 50% * (-100%) = -3%
House edge = -1 * (Expected value) = 3% (WITHOUT the 1% Round Bonus + 1% Ref Bonus)

Hence you can see your claim "This suggests that the actual house edge is over 3% higher than what is advertised." isn't accurate(!!!!).

All in all though, as others have suggested, please DM me if any of you want more information, as some details here and there do require some subtleties, thank you!

@devans Well your reply is misleading(!), as you make us sound like we're maliciously lying. This is what we said earlier which you didn't address (i.e. asking for a call): https://i.imgur.com/hWQCi25.png

Instead, you wanted us to open source our code entirely OR provide you a full copy for review (like how? do you seriously want us to email you the entire codebase online?). Or perhaps there was some miscommunication.

Again, down to hop on a call if necessary.

According to Etherscan, our desired Block 7589650 has been mined at time = Apr-18-2019 04:39:25 AM +UTC. Just restarted the game! Looking forward

Archived for future purposes: http://archive.fo/aRVmS

Please note, now we have Mobile Rendering + Accepting 100+ cryptocurrencies for the game!!

Hello Captain, Welcome to Moon3D's Seeding Event!

Purpose: The purpose of this post is to demonstrate that our game is indeed provably fair, i.e. our game's hash chain (which generates the randomness used in the game) has been chosen in a provably fair way.

1. Server Seed

We have generated a chain of 10 million sha256 hashes, meaning we started with a server seed and hashed it repeatedly 10 million times, i.e. serverSeed -> sha256(serverSeed) -> sha256(sha256(serverSeed))... The last hash of the hash chain is: c913d01f75b686d401213722c8b3b618157c84e3eb73409e8fd86689f89a79bf. Making this public prevents us from picking a different sha256 chain.
 
2. Game Progression

Moon3D will progress through the above hash chain in reverse order and use the hashes to determine the crash point in a provably fair manner.

3. Client Seed

To make sure we don't have control over choosing a desired hash chain in one way or another, each hash in the chain will be salted with a client seed, which would be the block hash of a future Ethereum block that has not been mined yet: Block 7589650.

Got it, apologies if everyone does indeed hate referral codes. But again areyoudonuts1 is just one of avid users of ours! If you don't trust me saying that, then no problem lol. 1+1=2.

Yep makes sense! At the very least, please feel free to browse around and check us out. You'll definitely notice that the UI/presentation is substantially different from ALL crash sites out there you know? Sorry we haven't been that active here on Bitcointalk just generally speaking. In fact, MOST active on Discord

Hi how's it going? As allo mentioned (rather bluntly), we made a post about the matter here:

[Moon3D Pre-Seeding Event] Why we didn’t get the Bustabit License — Moon3D Team

And we understand that as a newly started site we'd be receiving numerous scam accusations. For now, we're just trying to grow as organically as possible while really listening to what the users want + community building + product iteration + new features + focus on customers and feedback.

As we truly believe that trust comes about with consistency over time, we'll try our best to be exactly that and be consistent over time

Hi @Bitinity we understand how you feel like every new site's a scam! Obviously there have been multiple scams out there -> scam accusations of us (as a result) as a newly started site, but we encourage you to follow our progress since we understand that trust = consistency over time.

Obviously we don't have the time component yet! But we're very much willing to provide and improve! The moment you click on our site moon3d.io you'll see that we have a very distinct/novel UI/UX from all other crash sites out there. For now, you don't even have to play -- just checking us out would suffice!

As allo mentioned (rather bluntly), the following should contain more information and updates to follow: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5124953

As for areyoudonuts1, the person's actually an early user on our site! Thank you.

To start, we want to thank the BaB team and RHavar for building out such a cool game to begin with! We also want to thank our awesome community of players, as we are so thankful to each of you. You won’t regret having picked us!



Why did we make Moon3D?



Much like most BaB players, we were fascinated by the gaming concept the first time we played it. But we soon realized we wanted more and that we could try to take the idea to the next level and manifest it with better UI/UX and features in a way that would appeal to more users. Hence, we decided to mold/modify it to make it our own.

What's different about Moon3D?



In building Moon3D, we took the time and genuine effort to dissect everything we knew of BaB and its open source codebase. In the process, we built new (never before seen) features like our bonus hunting system, profit share referral system, and our clean/futuristic graphics interface -- all in TypeScript (superset of Javascript). On top of that, we host and manage a custom exchange backend that processes near-instantaneous withdrawals! And we have much more to come...



Why didn’t we buy the Bustabit License?



Each week, we have been pushing new features to reimagine and innovate on our game! While we respect BaB's implementation, we don’t believe they own sole proprietorship to all other implementations of the idea. Like most “internet ideas,” it seems to us only the implementation matters. Unlike most “licensed” sites, we took the painstaking effort of upgrading our game beyond the usual v1 features.

And to those that believe that licensing is the only path to legitimacy, here is a recent counterexample -- a not-so favorable “licensed” site by the name of CrashDoge (and more).

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/azh66t/crashdoge_crashingbitcoin_and_crashingcrypto_are/

If you're so different, why are you on license.txt in such manner?

Well, when we were notified about landing on license.txt, we contacted Daniel (BaB's current operator). And unfortunately we couldn’t come to an agreement that Moon3D was sufficiently different. While we continue to add upgrades to the game (including new crash-style games soon), we would like to open the question up to the community.


To Daniel and the team, we are still open to sharing our code with you privately, so you can take a look at all the changes we have made

What’s next for Moon3D?



To live up to our promise of innovating on the Crash Game concept, we have new (never before seen) crash-style games coming to Moon3D in the future! With new math and new hash chains



Join our Discord to stay updated and ask for free rolls to check us out on Moon3D!

Hello Captain, Welcome to Moon3D!



Our team at Moon3D is proud to announce the beta launch of the world’s most exciting, provably fair Ethereum Crash Game.

We are focused on prioritizing our users to deliver a fun gaming experience. We offer promotions for new players, so we encourage you to follow us on Discord and share the fun!

Discord: https://discord.gg/mAnxmC6



Mission Statement: Take your ETH to the moon! Follow your rocket all the way through the cosmos from the galaxies of Nyan territory to the Moon. And if you are lucky, you'll see Vitalik riding his Pony to the Moon!

The rules are simple:

1. Fuel your Rocket with some good old mETH
2. Set your panel on Manual or Autopilot
3. Cash out in time and Compete with the top 3 players from each round for the bonus pool





Want to Profit Share with the Team?

Simple, refer your friends! No need to waste time and money in the bankroll, just refer your friends. Our Profit Share system is instantly paid out each time your referee bets. Payouts are credited as a percentage of the referee's bet.

The more you refer, the higher your Profit Share level goes:
1. 15% Profit Share (base tier, 0.2% of referee wagers)
2. 20% Profit Share
3. 25% Profit Share
4. 30% Profit Share
5. 40% Profit Share (ultra mega f*kin whales)

For more information, please join our Discord, and message an admin to say hi!



Now, get to it Captain. Go feed your crash addiction with some mETH and Nyan Glory!

P.S. In the near future, Moon3D will enable players to use 100+ cryptocurrencies on the platform. More importantly, we plan to support new exciting graphs that have never been seen before!

Very misleading OP haha. You should try Moon3D though

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2. Play some games like moon3d, eosbet, eos knights
3. Learn coding, data science is real