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Surprised to see that this name isn't banned.
Rpietila, it's surprising to see that you have grown enough balls for not running to the admin to cry how the boys are making fun of you. Now, if you also wouldn't be as vain as an 10 year old girl, then you would be another step closer for being a man.
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Ok, I'll leave you guys with your high hopes of moons and trains. I'll have to go and when I'll return, then this username is probably banned already because of the cries of rpietila. But see you all later under a new name.
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Reserve demand can only hold up for so long.
This is true. Reserve demand for gold has only held up for several thousands of years. Our high-technology and globally-interconnected economy appears to now be shifting reserve demand to digital assets: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68655.0Please let's not compare something that isn't replaceable to something that is replaceable. When people start telling that Bitcoins success is guaranteed by the success of gold, then is the time when serious investors skip because of excessive cult behavior. |
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desperation and high hopes of the hodlers and miners isn't sure footing in my book. The price has to either go down enough, or there have to be new markets that will cause proper rise in demand
it doesn't matter whether the demand is reserve or consumption -- its all demand. miners who hoard until profitable, with ever increasing costs to play, and holders who hold, constitute reserve demand. it is silly to pretend that only utility gives bitcoin value. there are many sources of value. market value is simply demand. market value is not utility value or productive value. the sources of market value are as diverse as the sources of demand, and no more diverse. bitcoin has no productive value without market value, without demand. demand is required in order to provide bitcoin with its utility value. it is unlike things which do not function as currencies in that regard. hoarding bitcoin adds to its productive value as well its market value. a more liquid market will not require hoarders. but liquidity will not be self-supporting until the market value is much higher. meanwhile, it is just like hdparms little beetle. we need more hoarding in order for the market value to reach a level where the usability as currency is improved. more market value motivates entrepreneurs, motivates awareness, motivates participating in the economy. Reserve demand can only hold up for so long, and we can see this from the price movement of the previous months. Utility gives bitcoin any value in an idealistic perspective, that was brought forward by some self-righteous posters here. Real thing that gives bitcoin value is it's attraction for speculation. More market value, together with most of the market owned by anonymous hands, only creates bigger risk. If market value would rise together with the bitcoin market ownership becoming more transparent, then we could talk about it attracting participation. Smart investors never invest into something that has unknown variables that could drastically change the value of investment. |
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There has to be a counterbalance to all the cultish posts of the always-bullish people who think that prices are always going straight to the moon tomorrow regardless of any and all TA and that every unfavorable event is always made up.
It was us cultists who kept this project alive when it dropped from $32 to $3 and stayed there for a year. The fraction of investors like me who will willingly go down with the ship are the support base that gives BTC what some call "intrinsic" value. Without us, this really would be a Ponzi Scheme. Contributing to positive change in the world is just as important as ROI. It was the cultists who kept the project alive, not the developers? It really doesn't matter if the price goes down to 3$ or 0,3$, what matters is the general utility of bitcoin. The price matters to those who want to get rich with speculation. Sadly bitcoin is built in a way that is extremely attractive to speculation. A coin, that is more about utility then speculation, will actually create a positive change in the world. To tell, that your plans of getting rich by speculation, is bringing positive change to the world, is high level of self-righteousness. No one would suggest that developers aren't the drivers of the technology. But supporters play a key role as well in spreading a positive influence on the technology and it's potential. If the goal is to increase adoption, then supporters, regardless of price, will help increase that over people who are constantly bashing it and spreading FUD to benefit their own position. Then there are people who just come across as obnoxious regardless of their position. They show little respect for others in their posts. Cultists aren't exactly supporters. They scare away serious investors more then they invite. They make bitcoin look more like an pyramid scheme, then an financial tool. The general public doesn't want to get involved to anything that even smells like a cult. So the "everyone are stupid who doesn't worship bitcoin!" isn't exactly helping bitcoin nor it's price. |
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There has to be a counterbalance to all the cultish posts of the always-bullish people who think that prices are always going straight to the moon tomorrow regardless of any and all TA and that every unfavorable event is always made up.
It was us cultists who kept this project alive when it dropped from $32 to $3 and stayed there for a year. The fraction of investors like me who will willingly go down with the ship are the support base that gives BTC what some call "intrinsic" value. Without us, this really would be a Ponzi Scheme. Contributing to positive change in the world is just as important as ROI. It was the cultists who kept the project alive, not the developers? It really doesn't matter if the price goes down to 3$ or 0,3$, what matters is the general utility of bitcoin. The price matters to those who want to get rich with speculation. Sadly bitcoin is built in a way that is extremely attractive to speculation. A coin, that is more about utility then speculation, will actually create a positive change in the world. To tell, that your plans of getting rich by speculation, is bringing positive change to the world, is high level of self-righteousness. You're posting in a fcking Speculation thread, retard Now are you done shorting? Please tell me,.... should i buy or sell bitch? I shorted at around 680, at the end of this awesome careless pump that took the price up from 600 at the start of March. Now I'm not buying back until there is some sure footing. The desperation and high hopes of the hodlers and miners isn't sure footing in my book. The price has to either go down enough, or there have to be new markets that will cause proper rise in demand, then I'm all in and I'd even post a train pic. In my view, buying right now is a disaster waiting to happen. |
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There has to be a counterbalance to all the cultish posts of the always-bullish people who think that prices are always going straight to the moon tomorrow regardless of any and all TA and that every unfavorable event is always made up.
It was us cultists who kept this project alive when it dropped from $32 to $3 and stayed there for a year. The fraction of investors like me who will willingly go down with the ship are the support base that gives BTC what some call "intrinsic" value. Without us, this really would be a Ponzi Scheme. Contributing to positive change in the world is just as important as ROI. It was the cultists who kept the project alive, not the developers? It really doesn't matter if the price goes down to 3$ or 0,3$, what matters is the general utility of bitcoin. The price matters to those who want to get rich with speculation. Sadly bitcoin is built in a way that is extremely attractive to speculation. A coin, that is more about utility then speculation, will actually create a positive change in the world. To tell, that your plans of getting rich by speculation, is bringing positive change to the world, is high level of self-righteousness. |
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I'm so glad this little breakout is happening. phew. now it might hold relatively still so I can enjoy my weekend before the next drop. I hope.
You've gone from a good poster(postin bullish stuff) to Fonzie/Mah(postin bearish/critical stuff) status in a short period of time. Welcome to the ignored group. FTFY You will be shunned from the cult if you don't cheer along mindlessly! I myself have discovered that it's more dignified here to be the controversial figure who doesn't fit in very well. Because those who are weak spirited and easy to manipulate, seem to fit in best. It's like that with every other cult. |
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In my idea, the cultists are the reason on why there is this ugly slow downwards market. Without the cultists, we could of went down quickly, experienced some stability at the bottom for some time and then started to go up again. That would have been an healthy environment where one would feel comfortable investing.
Cultists are part of the healthy environment in all investments. When that part gets too big, then the environment won't be healthy anymore. |
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I have felt the same feeling for several months already :/ Starting with "It doesn't mean anything that pboc stated how they don't want to see any business activity with bitcoin in China". Or "It will certainly be OK because Bobby Lee has a strong feeling that it will be OK".
Usually, I consider myself as a friend to bitcoin. With mostly defending bitcoin from mindless fear and hate. But in the context of this forum, I'm considered to be "the enemy of bitcoin" just because I think that it's not right to worship bitcoin and to try to make it seem like something that it clearly isn't.
In my idea, the cultists are the reason on why there is this ugly slow downwards market. Without the cultists, we could of went down quickly, experienced some stability at the bottom for some time and then started to go up again. That would have been an healthy environment where one would feel comfortable investing.
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I sound like this because I have been telling all of this since January, but nobody listened and they called me names  I want to play bitcoin, but the other boys are breaking the game because they don't know how to play  Please, tell them that causing slow downtrends isn't how it's done :''( WTF? Are you even invested in BTC? If so, what's your strategy, just play it by ear and get pissed off at charts? I keep saying who cares about charts, unless you rely on something that you do NOT understand. If someone else is relying on something that is less accurate than your method, then more power to you, no? Of course I'm not invested in BTC. I held BTC more then 24h last time during December 2013. To me, it's madness or stupidity, to be holding coins with this market. My point is that these graphs that are presented are fugazi. They are presented by people who are either incompetent or their goal is to spread false information. This in turn is creating an ugly market and I really wanted for BTC to be pretty. You lose quite a bit of credibility by NOT being invested in BTC and then to be making suggestions concerning which investment tools a guy should use or NOT use. I have found that generally the posters providing graphs are putting in a certain level of skin to make their points and projections about the direction of BTC. Yes, on an anonymous forum, we need to take all information with a grain of salt, and I will take your information with even more grains of salt, once I get to know more about your philosophy regarding BTC - and it does NOT match with mine. I have been investing and I have quite a bit in the BTC game. That fact does NOT necessarily make me biased, but gives me various incentives to learn and to take from various sources in order to attempt to maximize my investment possibilities.... And, BTC is NOT my only investment or area of knowledge, so I get what I can out of the various charts, and I find them interesting that posters can attempt to explain various past performance or even to attempt to make predictions based in part on information in the charts.... NO matter what some people are going to have bad motives... and yours seem questionable in my mind at this point - especially given your seeming proclivity to attack people and to denigrate and to assume bad motives where the bad motives have NOT been proven. Don't waste your energy on telling me that I'm cruel, I know already that I can be cruel. Try to use your energy on thinking about the fact that we are on a slow long downtrend, that is hurting most of the people involved with bitcoin, and there is a reason for all of this happening. |
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Add: putting it on national TV seems to imply Risto is still hated by the TPTB or at least some powerful group in Finland? So perhaps that paints the understanding that he is on our side of the battle ahead.
Yes, that's it. It's all a conspiracy of the Finnish elite. It always is.. |
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I sound like this because I have been telling all of this since January, but nobody listened and they called me names I want to play bitcoin, but the other boys are breaking the game because they don't know how to play Please, tell them that causing slow downtrends isn't how it's done :''( WTF? Are you even invested in BTC? If so, what's your strategy, just play it by ear and get pissed off at charts? I keep saying who cares about charts, unless you rely on something that you do NOT understand. If someone else is relying on something that is less accurate than your method, then more power to you, no? Of course I'm not invested in BTC. I held BTC more then 24h last time during December 2013. To me, it's madness or stupidity, to be holding coins with this market. My point is that these graphs that are presented are fugazi. They are presented by people who are either incompetent or their goal is to spread false information. This in turn is creating an ugly market and I really wanted for BTC to be pretty. |
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I think if anything LTC will be toast after all this.
I think that I'm going LTC after BTC has fallen below 300. |
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What I'm saying is that these bitcoinwisdom line drawing attempts aren't trustworthy speculations. It wouldn't be worth of mentioning when the majority of the forum wouldn't consider them as trustworthy. When MtGox crashed, then the majority thought that we are back on an uptrend just because couple of reputable baffoons drawed couple of lines, that "proved" this. If the market were smarter, then everyone would earn more money. This unstable market that is lead by chaotic desperation and illusions, isn't very attractive any more, and I really want it to be attractive! So smarten up ffs and stop drawing lines and start concentrating at the general nature of the market.
You are appearing to be so bitter to merely criticize and attack and denigrate without offering any meaningful alternatives. You seem to be suggesting to predict BTC prices by just doing whatever feels good or feels right at the time... little objective guidance with those kinds of abstract considerations. YES, maybe line drawing is NOT the be all end all.... and few are saying that it is... Surely there are other pieces of evidence that can be accounted to consider the price direction of BTC besides line drawing, and I think everyone agrees to that.. Also, everyone seems to agree that the past does NOT predict the future and that various variables can alter the line drawing predictions... so in this regard, you seem to be attempting to attribute much more predictive value to the line drawings than the line drawers themselves are attributing to such lines. Is it really hard to understand these simple concepts: Shutdown of an important market = Loss of demand caused by closing an important channel of incoming flow = Price lowers Shutdown of an important market, together with the loss of customer funds = Bigger loss of demand, caused by closing an important channel + loss of trust towards the entire market system = Price lowers even more THE thing to consider with cryptos are the markets. How many markets there are in different geographical places and how comfortable do people feel in using them. This is the main factor that creates demand, so it's the most important factor to consider, since supply is relatively stable and predictable. And you can't understand this aspect by drawing lines in graphs. You could get better predictions by using volume in that equation, not just draw a line between bottoms and tops. But volumes can be faked in crypto, so it's not solid either. Stable trends only apply to markets that are very stable. Where things like 4 seasons of the year or restrictions of the law affect the price in the repeating pattern. Drawing lines in the crypto market is insanity, because the entire market is based on speculation and the entire environment is quickly changing. You have to think on your feet to trade effectively, not just draw lines. I think that the mindless line drawers are the reason on why there is so much uncertainty and confusion. They are leading the people to look at things that doesn't matter and then again everyone will be surprised that why didn't it go like this. And always after the line drawer predictions didn't come through, then they begin acting like they knew about this all along, and the lemmings forgot how certain they were about their lines just couple of weeks ago. Surely there is some truth to what your saying; however, in my view you are being way to emphatic and denigrating about it. And, you are engaging in a lot of generalizations in order to denigrate line drawers...... so what... ? let them draw their lines and do whatever, who cares? Some people will give line drawing weight and others will NOT ... why does it matter? Some people will be falsely lead by the line drawing b/c they are NOT flexible enough or they fail to take into account other factors that affect and manipulate the market... so what... ? I guess my point is that you have made some points, but your point is NOT really any more valid than the line drawers attempting to figure out what to do... and maybe failing to recognize some other important market dynamic. Let speculators use whatever tools they wish in order to speculate, and each of us can determine how much time we want to spend in that regard or how much weight to give such information derived from such speculations. I sound like this because I have been telling all of this since January, but nobody listened and they called me names I want to play bitcoin, but the other boys are breaking the game because they don't know how to play Please, tell them that causing slow downtrends isn't how it's done :''( |
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Zapffe why there is bad blood between you and Risto? I never saw him acting unethically.
I know of his business model before so you don't need to detail it. But a daily fix was the way clear the market efficiently which is what was popular as evidenced by his success with it. Are you saying proper disclosure wasn't made for the level of control he had in the fix that was not purely algorithmic? Any way, I know nothing about that if so. I wasn't involved. I was just buying and selling silver briefly and did some trades with Risto who needed to source silver for his growing customer base.
P.S. "They" (I am not clear who is who and what the associations are) banned me from their cryptocrypt forum because I was speaking these heresies about Bitcoin. So I do agree that their ideas about being great managers of the future of Bitcoin is just ego masturbation. They will discover that bottom-up chaos reigns. Society-wide top-down order is always owned by the collective, i.e. government and its coming sinking Titanic effect.
Bad blood is a little strong phrase for that. It's mainly my personal issue with a certain type of character. He has constantly stated that he is planning to leave this forum. I think that I should express my issue while I still can. |
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First of all, i thought i was trolling, but everytime i read a comment on speculation etc, it seems like 25-50% of the people on here try to cause panic etc.
Is this just people spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt so they can buy the panic sells or what?
Do people (on here) believe in bitcoin (and if so why are there many comments bashing it and saying its going to fail because of small bumps in the road)?
What are your thoughts on bitcoin?
At first the market should of acted more maturely, after the loss of Chinese market. China was lost after they declared in December, that they don't want to see any business activity regarding bitcoin. The market should have acted accordingly, to calculate the loss of demand in China and dropped the price down. But the market was full of reckless fools, and without acknowledgement on what just happened, they went into denial and acted like nothing had happened. They started to put more money into bitcoin themselves, and hoped that this will stimulate the market and others will join in to buy. The attempt didn't come out very well. At first they were already struggling to push the price up, but when MtGox hit, then real demand dropped so much, that they had trouble keeping the price from falling. MtGox wasn't just a loss of an market, but it broke any trust that the general public had towards the bitcoin market system. And trust is the most important thing, when offering a service to handle wealth. More miners were starting to dump their coins that they were holding before for an brighter future. People were starting to cut their losses and leave, because the most annoying and unattractive kind of market, is the slow downwards market. Price has already fallen for several months, but a lot are still illusioned that BTC is holy, so an act of god will soon make their coins cost more. All this mess.. and all these useless shenanigans are slowing down the process of financial evolution. People should stop worshiping bitcoin and start using their heads and everyone could earn more. |
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I have had funnier costumes than that, but the problem is that reporters take photos and upload them to stay forever in the Internet, and the original context (why it is funny/satirical/younameit) is totally lost Were they ever funnier then this piece of evidence, shown on the Finnish national TV channel:  They can't be more embarrassing like that one. Especially with you looking like you aren't kidding around here, and you are actually exhibiting your wealth in this manner with serious intentions. That picture isn't showing you as a very respectable individual. Right? But we all knew that you were kidding around with this picture, and were just playing a role of an stereo-typical douchebag, just so you could fool everyone. Actually you are an highly skilled businessman, who is a straight shooter and with an impeccable reputation in both Finland and Estonia, right?  |
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What I'm saying is that these bitcoinwisdom line drawing attempts aren't trustworthy speculations. It wouldn't be worth of mentioning when the majority of the forum wouldn't consider them as trustworthy. When MtGox crashed, then the majority thought that we are back on an uptrend just because couple of reputable baffoons drawed couple of lines, that "proved" this. If the market were smarter, then everyone would earn more money. This unstable market that is lead by chaotic desperation and illusions, isn't very attractive any more, and I really want it to be attractive! So smarten up ffs and stop drawing lines and start concentrating at the general nature of the market.
You are appearing to be so bitter to merely criticize and attack and denigrate without offering any meaningful alternatives. You seem to be suggesting to predict BTC prices by just doing whatever feels good or feels right at the time... little objective guidance with those kinds of abstract considerations. YES, maybe line drawing is NOT the be all end all.... and few are saying that it is... Surely there are other pieces of evidence that can be accounted to consider the price direction of BTC besides line drawing, and I think everyone agrees to that.. Also, everyone seems to agree that the past does NOT predict the future and that various variables can alter the line drawing predictions... so in this regard, you seem to be attempting to attribute much more predictive value to the line drawings than the line drawers themselves are attributing to such lines. Is it really hard to understand these simple concepts: Shutdown of an important market = Loss of demand caused by closing an important channel of incoming flow = Price lowers Shutdown of an important market, together with the loss of customer funds = Bigger loss of demand, caused by closing an important channel + loss of trust towards the entire market system = Price lowers even more THE thing to consider with cryptos are the markets. How many markets there are in different geographical places and how comfortable do people feel in using them. This is the main factor that creates demand, so it's the most important factor to consider, since supply is relatively stable and predictable. And you can't understand this aspect by drawing lines in graphs. You could get better predictions by using volume in that equation, not just draw a line between bottoms and tops. But volumes can be faked in crypto, so it's not solid either. Stable trends only apply to markets that are very stable. Where things like 4 seasons of the year or restrictions of the law affect the price in the repeating pattern. Drawing lines in the crypto market is insanity, because the entire market is based on speculation and the entire environment is quickly changing. You have to think on your feet to trade effectively, not just draw lines. I think that the mindless line drawers are the reason on why there is so much uncertainty and confusion. They are leading the people to look at things that doesn't matter and then again everyone will be surprised that why didn't it go like this. And always after the line drawer predictions didn't come through, then they begin acting like they knew about this all along, and the lemmings forgot how certain they were about their lines just couple of weeks ago. |
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So... we finally looking into the bigger triangle yet for support?
[...]
Quickly, draw more lines... draw also ones that point up.. that will surely make the price rise! This has been the general sentiment in this forum, so it has to work! That's a fancy way of saying you don't understand my chart, or which conclusions you should draw from it. That's me saying that your charts are meaningless. Start creating charts in a way, that they could predict the right outcome at least 50% of the time, and there would be some meaning. It may be a shock to you but drawing lines from the bottoms and tops at bitcoinwisdom isn't exactly an advanced method of prediction, that would be hard to understand to anyone. It's just a way for some people to rationalize their gambling habits, so they could call their gambling as "investing" to girlfriend and friends. Jup, suspected that much. And because you don't draw those silly little charts you're posting one bitter comment after another, because you either missed the train, or jumped off too early, or whatever pathetic trading decisions you made in the past, while I can afford to look at the price in a more, hm, relaxed way. But good luck with your approach, whatever it is. I got in at 200, sold at around 1030, bought couple of times since, once with zero outcome and other time a 6% profit from a strong pump. So, stop trying to justify yourself by trying to fantasize about me. Trading is not about drawing lines but about knowing the nature of the entire market, it's product or service and it's development. You can only use previous trends if the environment is the same as it was during that previous trend. If you think that BTC is the same as it was during the days of "internet play money that can be used to buy drugs", then you are an absolute fool, who can't even understand things that should be considered as common sense But keep going, keep drawing your little lines at bitcoinwisdom and fantasize that this makes you a knowledgeable trader. It's funny how the line drawers are wrong more then right, but they are constantly speaking like they are earning profit. The mystery or life... Reminds me of the movie "Freddy got fingered" where Tom Green started to show random graphs and presented himself as an stockbroker. Definitely, I have difficulties understanding how much weight to give to various lines; however, this is the speculation thread. Therefore, it is much more valuable to see various contributions and speculations that are based on some concepts.. rather than some rant that denigrates other contributions for NO apparent reason... except maybe Zapffe, you feel good to be able to denigrate others on some quasi-anonymous forum? that shows more about your lack of character, rather than showing that line drawing is meaningless (which I believe was the other point you were attempting to make... .. ) What I'm saying is that these bitcoinwisdom line drawing attempts aren't trustworthy speculations. It wouldn't be worth of mentioning when the majority of the forum wouldn't consider them as trustworthy. When MtGox crashed, then the majority thought that we are back on an uptrend just because couple of reputable baffoons drawed couple of lines, that "proved" this. If the market were smarter, then everyone would earn more money. This unstable market that is lead by chaotic desperation and illusions, isn't very attractive any more, and I really want it to be attractive! So smarten up ffs and stop drawing lines and start concentrating at the general nature of the market. |
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