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Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Fake bets
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on: March 12, 2021, 02:01:08 PM
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But I have also to admit that they are not really hurting anybody.
I very highly disagree. - They hurt the naive people who see those ads, who are left with the false impression that gambling can be an easy way to make money. Especially minors can easily fall under this illusion when all of their favorite streamers and Youtubers keep showcasing their 'big wins' -- Without disclaiming the fact that it's completely fake. - They hurt legit sites that don't want to participate in faking their bet amounts. Roobet, as an example, is pretending to be bigger than they truly are. A lot of people will follow the critical mass, and they will play in the casino which has the most activity. This is a loss for those casinos with better moral standards. - They hurt legit gambling streamers and Youtubers who don't want to make fake bets with fake reactions. It's difficult for honest people to stand out with their bets of $50, while those fake streamers are pretending to gamble with tens of thousands. I'm genuinely disgusted by the way Roobet runs their business. Their company is successful and highly profitable, and they could remain profitable even without doing all of this shady stuff. They made this explicit decision to choose the route of greediness, even though they had other options. What makes the matter worse is that they're targeting lots of influencers who are primarily making content for children. As an example, they're sponsoring Jake Paul and Ricegum, which is absolutely disgusting, in my opinion. I could never imagine a respectable site like Stake.com to do anything like this. Doing shady, dishonest stuff is a slippery slope; If Roobet is willing to create fake ads and massively inflate their bet counts on the website, this makes me wonder; What other immoral things would they be willing to do? Where would they draw the line? Based on what I've seen, it wouldn't surprise me even the slightest if Roobet would start directly scamming their customers. Based on my observations, their moral standards are non-existent. Much respect to your standard. However, naive people will always be hurt in this kind of world we are living in. Much of what we see around are fake nowadays. How I wish everything will be so genuine that no innocent individual would ever suffer from fake ads, news, promotion, education, promises, opportunities, etc. Don't be misled by fake gamblers posing as real ones. I don't like Roobet's approach but I don't think it is illegal and so it is your responsibility to protect yourself against misleading promotion just as you need to protect yourself from misleading ads of fake milk, fake cheese, fake meat, fake flavor, fake ingredients, etc. I'm just disappointed. I've been under the impression that this community is very efficient at imposing self-regulation by not supporting shady operators. It's disappointing to see how warmly the Bitcointalk community treats Roobet, despite them very clearly trying to take advantage of you by immoral means. I'm glad that the community has at least some standards these days -- For example, they're very quick to call out and shoo away gambling sites that are not provably fair. However, in my opinion, the bar is still really low. |
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Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Fake bets
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on: March 12, 2021, 01:29:32 PM
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Fake bets can have a very wide definition actually. What is fake? the odds or the incorrect displaying?
In this thread, I'm referring to "bets" done by advertisers where they don't actually risk anything, or the real value is substantially lower than the amount they advertise. Example: A) Youtuber makes a video of a "$50.000" win when in reality, they were playing with non-withdrawable funds. B) Site makes an agreement with the Youtuber for $50.000. They give the Youtuber infinite refills of $1000 each up until the point that they "win" $50.000. The Youtuber then happily advertises this, pretending as if they actually won $50.000, even though this outcome was completely predetermined. C) Youtuber wants to gamble with $100. The site boosts their credit value by 1000x so that it looks like they're actually gambling with $100.000. |
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Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Fake bets
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on: March 12, 2021, 01:16:28 PM
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But I have also to admit that they are not really hurting anybody.
I very highly disagree. - They hurt the naive people who see those ads, who are left with the false impression that gambling can be an easy way to make money. Especially minors can easily fall under this illusion when all of their favorite streamers and Youtubers keep showcasing their 'big wins' -- Without disclaiming the fact that it's completely fake. - They hurt legit sites that don't want to participate in faking their bet amounts. Roobet, as an example, is pretending to be bigger than they truly are. A lot of people will follow the critical mass, and they will play in the casino which has the most activity. This is a loss for those casinos with better moral standards. - They hurt legit gambling streamers and Youtubers who don't want to make fake bets with fake reactions. It's difficult for honest people to stand out with their bets of $50, while those fake streamers are pretending to gamble with tens of thousands. I'm genuinely disgusted by the way Roobet runs their business. Their company is successful and highly profitable, and they could remain profitable even without doing all of this shady stuff. They made this explicit decision to choose the route of greediness, even though they had other options. What makes the matter worse is that they're targeting lots of influencers who are primarily making content for children. As an example, they're sponsoring Jake Paul and Ricegum, which is absolutely disgusting, in my opinion. I could never imagine a respectable site like Stake.com to do anything like this. Doing shady, dishonest stuff is a slippery slope; If Roobet is willing to create fake ads and massively inflate their bet counts on the website, this makes me wonder; What other immoral things would they be willing to do? Where would they draw the line? Based on what I've seen, it wouldn't surprise me even the slightest if Roobet would start directly scamming their customers. Based on my observations, their moral standards are non-existent. |
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Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Fake bets
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on: March 12, 2021, 01:01:12 PM
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reading your post history it seems that your problem is with moe_tv. I get why you are questioning Roobet and I agree. but, why not just file a case against moe_tv? reading your post it was clear that he was defaming you and spreading false information against you and encouraging people to get your gambling license to be revoked by giving a false report on curacao. I'd say with all this thing you have a pretty good case against moe for defamation case unless of course, everything he said about you is true. but who knows.
My Bitcointalk post history is practically empty. I've been a lurker for ages, but I made my first post in here just a couple of weeks ago. Just to give you a little bit of context; I've been fighting against fraudulent operators in the gambling scene for years. In recent months, I've been investigating and calling out Moe for his shady activities. (To get a proper view of my real 'post history', have a look at https://twitter.com/CSGOEmpireV2) While investigating Moe, I fell into this huge rabbit hole of fake bets -- At first, I figured out that Moe is creating fake content for Roobet, and shortly after I learned that almost all of Roobet's advertisers are doing the same thing. What I'm trying to say is that this is another, separate topic. This post is not only related to Moe; It's related to all of Roobet's advertisers (which does also include Moe.) |
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Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Fake bets
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on: March 12, 2021, 11:21:51 AM
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The question is, can we proved they are faking their bets?
Absolutely. It seems to be common knowledge by now, hence why I didn't bother to list the evidence in the starting post. But, here are a couple of things to show: 1) Roobet video uploaded 2 days ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyt-cgfKEbQRead the description: "All Balances you see on these videos is sponsored as part of my deal with the website." 2) https://roobet.com/50k-pot-o-goldRead the terms: "Sponsored funds will not reward tickets for the promotion." If some people are still doubtful about this, I can spend some extra time to show more material. But, it should be quite obvious by now -- Pretty much all of their advertisers have somewhat admitted to gambling with monopoly money. |
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Economy / Gambling / Re: Roobet.com | Crypto’s Fastest Growing Casino 🦘
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on: March 12, 2021, 10:51:44 AM
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I don't like to watch live streams when it comes to gambling but I've been able to watch it a few times at the party event itself or just giveaways. Sometimes I’ve watched the stream have already started so maybe I’m missing out about letting them know if it’s sponsorship or not. And the only one I know is Xposed here at Roobet. Honestly, at first, I didn't really know that there were sponsorships or deals between the company and the streamers. But for me, whether there are deals or not, whether the money used to play comes from the casino itself or not by a streamer (it was also mentioned that it is known if it really comes from the casino) it is up to the audience or viewer to have enough understanding and knowing how he will react to it, you should know what you are entering and the responsibility you must handle.
All I can see him complaining about is that maybe it’s beginners or don’t have enough knowledge when it comes to gambling that they can be tempted to win big money that the opposite can happen. For me, it is no longer the fault of a casino or a streamer why they would be put in such a situation because they were the ones who watched and pressed the screen or the mouse to land or watch it.
I think you missed the point. There's absolutely nothing wrong with using money that came from a sponsorship deal. The problem here is that some of the streamers are not using money at all -- They may be playing with 100% non-withdrawable monopoly-money, while they pretend as if they were gambling real money. |
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Economy / Gambling discussion / Fake bets
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on: March 12, 2021, 10:28:31 AM
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Edit:
This seems to be a pretty controversial subject, so I decided to write this blog post to expand on my thoughts on this:
https://twitter.com/CSGOEmpireV2/status/1375068884584267778I'm curious to hear what the Bitcointalk community thinks about this topic; Casinos using fake bets to attract new players.I was surprised to learn that the vast majority of videos and streams on Roobet.com are actually fake. Here are a couple of examples of different deal formats that casinos are making with the influencers: A) Bet amount inflation; The streamer only wants to gamble with $100. The site gives them "$10000" in funds, but only 1% of this is withdrawable. The viewers will think that the streamer is gambling with $10000, while in reality, they're only risking $100. B) Infinite refills; The casino makes an agreement with the streamer. Let's say they want to pay the streamer $50,000 for a sponsorship contract. They start giving the streamer endless $1000 refills, which the streamer is supposed to gamble with. They will repeat this process until they "win" $50,000. The streamer will pretend to be shocked and highlight this big win in all of their social media channels. However, the truth is that there were zero risks involved for the streamer, and the final outcome was already known -- It was just a matter of time. I brought this topic up in Roobet's Bitcointalk thread, and I was quite surprised to see a lot of people defending them, saying that this is totally justified. They mentioned points such as: - "This has been going on for years. It's normal in the casino community." - "The streamers are honest about it. They have a disclaimer somewhere stating that it's fake." (Their explanations usually are very indirect and abstract.) In my personal opinion, this sort of marketing is highly deceiving and dishonest. Roobet (and other casinos) are inflating their systems with fake bets, pretending to be more popular than they really are. This is a loss for both, legit sites that don't want to inflate their numbers, and legit streamers who don't want to participate in the circus of fake bets and fake reactions. What do you think?
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Economy / Gambling / Re: Roobet.com | Crypto’s Fastest Growing Casino 🦘
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on: March 12, 2021, 10:13:12 AM
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You seem to be a newbie in the gambling world. This isn't anything new. Many sites advertise in this manner as I mentioned in my earlier post and I don't think there is anything wrong with a casino trying to attract gamblers in this way.
Also, what's wrong with sponsoring popular youtubers? This is basically the trend these days since Roobet isn't the only site doing this.
Nah, he not a newbie he was the owner of CSGOEMPIRE. And currently have some problem with mOE_TV since mOE was playing on Roobet and could have some contract between Roobet that why he was here try to contact Roobet because of his problem with Moe. Yeah, this originates from the scandal with Moe. After Moe was exposed (see https://twitter.com/CSGOEmpireV2/status/1364945317934862339), every single one of Moe's sponsors ended the partnership with him, except Roobet. I found this very questionable. It seemed absurd how Roobet wanted to support someone who's attacking a fellow casino owner. Anyway, it has become apparent by now that the owner of Roobet has never been a big fan of me. This isn't the first time that we're clashing. Before the scandal with Moe, I didn't even know that the bets are fake. While investigating the Moe case, I fell into this deep rabbit hole, and I realized that the bulk of the bets by streamers on Roobet are fake. While I am particularly interested in exposing Moe for all of his shady activities, this still applies to all other influencers that are creating deceiving content with Roobet. I know -- The fake bets have been a thing for years, but that absolutely does not mean that it should be acceptable. I still firmly believe that Roobet's marketing campaigns are borderline fraudulent. |
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Economy / Gambling / Re: Roobet.com | Crypto’s Fastest Growing Casino 🦘
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on: March 11, 2021, 05:42:25 PM
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The fact of the matter is this:
- Many of the streamers do not disclose this, and those who do, they usually explain it in very confusing & unclear terms.
- A lot of people are being deceived by this; They believe that they are gambling with real money.
There's absolutely no need for Roobet to promote fake bets like this. It would be totally possible for them to keep things real, and only allow their advertisers to bet with real money. Entertaining content and keeping things real are not mutually exclusive.
Roobet made a decision -- They willingly chose the path of greediness, and they're intentionally producing highly deceptive ads.
I don't think Roobet is trying to deceive anyone by helping streamers out in this manner. Many popular sites(Fiat and Crypto) do this and there is nothing wrong since it's still money at the end of the day which is all that matters. This is a smart way to tempt gamblers to be honest. Roobet and the streamers profit together while the audience needs to their research before investing. How do you think this "helps" streamers? Yes, this clickbaity content will get more views to the Roobet partners -- But at what cost? That's a loss for those streamers who want to keep things real, and who don't want to promote their channels with fake bets. Also, this establishes a vicious loop; Since there are so many streamers making fake bets, the only way to stand out will be to do even bigger fake bets. We already saw this with one of Roobet's partners, m0e_tv. At first, he was making fake bets of just a few thousand per video, which quickly escalated -- Soon, he was making videos of literally winning/losing hundreds of thousands in a single video, even though it was 100% non-withdrawable house-money. After I pointed this out, Moe removed the relevant videos from his channel. It's absolutely clear that Roobet is intentionally deceiving people. Otherwise, they wouldn't do any fake bets. Can you think of any legitimate reasons as to why they allow fake bets in the first place? "there is nothing wrong since it's still money at the end of the day which is all that matters." I don't get this argument. As I mentioned, in some cases the streamers are risking literally zero money, even though they claim otherwise. It's absolutely mind-blowing that some people find this acceptable. Roobet and the streamers are literally lying to their audience, and they're preying on naive people who genuinely believe that gambling can be a quick way to make money, just like their favorite streamers. This one is another topic, but what makes it more disgusting is the fact that Roobet is heavily targeting channels where the audience consists of children primarily. Sponsoring Jake Paul and Ricegum, for example, is quite questionable in my opinion. |
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Economy / Gambling / Re: Roobet.com | Crypto’s Fastest Growing Casino 🦘
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on: March 11, 2021, 04:10:19 PM
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There's nothing wrong with gambling with money that was given by the sponsor, as long as they are actually risking it. If a streamer bets $100 and they truly risk $100, that's fine. But if they pretend to bet $100 while they only risk $50, $5, or even $0, that is simply misleading and fraudulent.
If the streamer honest and admitted where the money came from, there is no really big deal at all for the viewer. I also watching a few youtuber, yes they are using sponsor money but I still watching because respected them admitted at the beginning of the video where the money came. We as the viewer, watching them not because of the winners but also have a few reasons like : - Entertainment & want to see his some shit reaction ~XD - Know the game streamer/YouTuber play while the balance on real balance even the money was coming from sponsor, because sometimes while tested the game on demo and real mode just have some different taste and feels not the same. Then, when the streamer/YouTuber already admitted the money came from the sponsor before the gambling video happen whats the problem anymore? the viewer already know that. I talk like this because feels that your post pointed to all streamers / YouTubers even some of them already honest to their viewer about the money came and always reminder about gambling responsibility 18+, even I know the post you are made only for moe because of your problem with him. The fact of the matter is this: - Many of the streamers do not disclose this, and those who do, they usually explain it in very confusing & unclear terms. - A lot of people are being deceived by this; They believe that they are gambling with real money. There's absolutely no need for Roobet to promote fake bets like this. It would be totally possible for them to keep things real, and only allow their advertisers to bet with real money. Entertaining content and keeping things real are not mutually exclusive. Roobet made a decision -- They willingly chose the path of greediness, and they're intentionally producing highly deceptive ads. |
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Economy / Gambling / Re: Roobet.com | Crypto’s Fastest Growing Casino 🦘
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on: March 11, 2021, 03:23:04 PM
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-snip-
It all depends on the YouTuber/streamer itself, example like one of my youtube like Drew or Juicy both of them while making the video will speak up or make some warning about : - Where the money came sponsor or not - Make some warning about gambling and responsibility for your own self. Everyone knows around 80% the money was coming from sponsor. You also CSGOEmpire, If I not wrong also hired YouTuber/stremer to give them balance as sponsor money as well did other people comment on their reaction for your video and everyone watch for entertainment did you want us as the viewer see them without reaction?. And yeah, the problem between you and moe better to talk by only both of you "Roobet" don't really have any connection between your problem. There's nothing wrong with gambling with money that was given by the sponsor, as long as they are actually risking it. If a streamer bets $100 and they truly risk $100, that's fine. But if they pretend to bet $100 while they only risk $50, $5, or even $0, that is simply misleading and fraudulent. You are right, I and CSGOEmpire are also guilty of participating in similar deceptive marketing years ago, I admit that. |
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Economy / Gambling / Re: Roobet.com | Crypto’s Fastest Growing Casino 🦘
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on: March 11, 2021, 02:00:23 PM
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Roobet, can you chime some light on the topic of fake bets? You've recruited lots of Youtubers and streamers to gamble with fake money. In essence, they're creating misleading content where they pretend to be winning big amounts, while in reality, they are risking virtually nothing.
In my opinion, this is completely fraudulent and misleading.
How did you know the money was not real? Several sponsored advertisers have admitted it, and it seems to be a well-established fact by now. (Happy to provide hard evidence if you wish) They try to be very discreet about it, and they communicate it with very unclear terms. To make an example, they could have a deal like the following: Roobet agrees to pay streamer X $100,000 for promotion. They will give a $5000 starting balance to X, and they will tell him to keep gambling until they reach $100,000. If X loses, they will keep giving him refills until he reaches $100,000. In the meantime, streamer X will tell his viewers: "This is totally real! Whatever I win, I will get to keep it!" -- Practically, they're telling the truth, but it's highly deceptive. In this hypothetical setup, the streamer X is actually not risking a penny of their own money, and all of their 'reactions' would be faked. The above is merely an example -- By the looks of it, they've been doing several variations of those confusing deals. Sometimes the streamers may have a little bit of risk involved, but they are still massively exaggerating the bet amounts and their reactions. The bottom line is that Roobet is collaborating with these streamers to deceive the viewers into believing that they're betting more than they really are. They pretend to be transparent about it, but their communication is full of half-truths and intentional abstraction. There's been a lot of heat about this on Twitter recently ( https://twitter.com/CSGOEmpireV2/status/1369997063447052293), but Roobet is still intentionally ignoring it. |
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Economy / Gambling / Re: Roobet.com | Crypto’s Fastest Growing Casino 🦘
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on: March 11, 2021, 01:13:56 PM
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I've reached out to the Roobet owners through mutual contacts, but they're ignoring me and refusing to address this topic:
Roobet, can you chime some light on the topic of fake bets? You've recruited lots of Youtubers and streamers to gamble with fake money. In essence, they're creating misleading content where they pretend to be winning big amounts, while in reality, they are risking virtually nothing.
In my opinion, this is completely fraudulent and misleading.
Could you comment on this?
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Economy / Gambling / Re: Roobet.com | Crypto’s Fastest Growing Casino 🦘
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on: February 26, 2021, 11:28:39 AM
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Hi Roobet,
I'm curious; what's your logic behind sponsoring m0E_tv? I'm sure you're well aware of his shady activities in the past, and in the present.
If you want Roobet to be known as a reputable brand, I don't think you should be partnered with people like this.
Did Roobet really sponsor edm0E_tv intentionally? Or just m0E_tv creating a Roobet account getting his referral link, then promoting it to his Twitter and Twitch account? So it's not that Roobet intentionally sponsored this supposedly fraud guy, and just the rest of us here, we used Roobet to gamble and then try to market it as well with our referral link to earn some. No, he's actually sponsored. This has been confirmed by both, Moe and Roobet staff. On top of this -- according to Moe, they have an arrangement where the site gives him fake monopoly money to play with, and he's just faking all his reactions on the big wins. |
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Economy / Gambling / Re: Roobet.com | Crypto’s Fastest Growing Casino 🦘
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on: February 25, 2021, 02:33:54 PM
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-snip-
I know about moe_tv around 2-3 years. What case he was got? I only know the case of PhantomLord about CSGOShuffle, man even he not sponsor moe_tv robbet already become the major and reputable casino on cryptocurrency or CSGO space. Is up to them to sponsor him or not, but even without moe_tv we already aware about roobet. Well, here's quite a long, yet absurd story for you to read. Moe was involved in a massive scandal with CSGODiamonds back in 2016, where the site owner and Moe colluded to rig the game. In 2020, CSGODiamonds made a comeback under a new brand, and they partnered up with Moe again. I called Moe out for this publicly, and he turned this into quite a counter-attack. This is where things go absolutely crazy: As of right now, Moe is doing everything in his power to take me down. - He's spreading false pedophilia allegations about me on his live stream. 13 hours ago, he literally said that "Monarch is forcing little children to do ...things... on camera", in front of 700+ viewers, while playing on Roobet. - He's doing everything in his powers to attack my business (For context, I own CSGOEmpire.com, which is currently the biggest CSGO gambling site -- I've ended up in quite a few fights like this due to actively exposing fraudulent operators in the scene.) - In his latest live stream, he encouraged his viewers to go and file a report to our (Curacao) gambling licensor, and he encouraged them to comment that "They're playing from the USA" (When USA IP addresses should be and is blocked by us.) It's a completely absurd story, but if you're interested to know more details about this, there's lots of stuff I've posted recently on Twitter account here: https://twitter.com/CSGOEmpireV2. I'm currently in the process of writing a bigger document about this whole story, and I'm hoping to have it finished by the end of the day. The thing that really boggles me -- Why is Roobet still sponsoring and supporting this person? Moe's actions are incredibly chaotic, and I find him very dangerous for the entire crypto gambling scene. Virtually all of his other sponsors dropped him already, but for some reason, Roobet is still heavily invested in him. I tried approaching Roobet privately through a mutual friend of ours, but they seemed to ignore this for the most part. Hence why I thought I'd bring up the discussion here on Bitcointalk. I'd be very interested to hear their thought process behind the decision to support Moe. Expanding to the above -- I just finished writing this document with the full story about Moe: https://twitter.com/CSGOEmpireV2/status/1364945317934862339 |
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Economy / Gambling / Re: Roobet.com | Crypto’s Fastest Growing Casino 🦘
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on: February 25, 2021, 12:46:49 PM
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-snip-
I know about moe_tv around 2-3 years. What case he was got? I only know the case of PhantomLord about CSGOShuffle, man even he not sponsor moe_tv robbet already become the major and reputable casino on cryptocurrency or CSGO space. Is up to them to sponsor him or not, but even without moe_tv we already aware about roobet. Well, here's quite a long, yet absurd story for you to read. Moe was involved in a massive scandal with CSGODiamonds back in 2016, where the site owner and Moe colluded to rig the game. In 2020, CSGODiamonds made a comeback under a new brand, and they partnered up with Moe again. I called Moe out for this publicly, and he turned this into quite a counter-attack. This is where things go absolutely crazy: As of right now, Moe is doing everything in his power to take me down. - He's spreading false pedophilia allegations about me on his live stream. 13 hours ago, he literally said that "Monarch is forcing little children to do ...things... on camera", in front of 700+ viewers, while playing on Roobet. - He's doing everything in his powers to attack my business (For context, I own CSGOEmpire.com, which is currently the biggest CSGO gambling site -- I've ended up in quite a few fights like this due to actively exposing fraudulent operators in the scene.) - In his latest live stream, he encouraged his viewers to go and file a report to our (Curacao) gambling licensor, and he encouraged them to comment that "They're playing from the USA" (When USA IP addresses should be and is blocked by us.) It's a completely absurd story, but if you're interested to know more details about this, there's lots of stuff I've posted recently on Twitter account here: https://twitter.com/CSGOEmpireV2. I'm currently in the process of writing a bigger document about this whole story, and I'm hoping to have it finished by the end of the day. The thing that really boggles me -- Why is Roobet still sponsoring and supporting this person? Moe's actions are incredibly chaotic, and I find him very dangerous for the entire crypto gambling scene. Virtually all of his other sponsors dropped him already, but for some reason, Roobet is still heavily invested in him. I tried approaching Roobet privately through a mutual friend of ours, but they seemed to ignore this for the most part. Hence why I thought I'd bring up the discussion here on Bitcointalk. I'd be very interested to hear their thought process behind the decision to support Moe. |
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Economy / Gambling / Re: Roobet.com | Crypto’s Fastest Growing Casino 🦘
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on: February 25, 2021, 12:47:19 AM
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Hi Roobet,
I'm curious; what's your logic behind sponsoring m0E_tv? I'm sure you're well aware of his shady activities in the past, and in the present.
If you want Roobet to be known as a reputable brand, I don't think you should be partnered with people like this.
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