Fake bets

[Monarch-]

Edit:
This seems to be a pretty controversial subject, so I decided to write this blog post to expand on my thoughts on this:
https://twitter.com/CSGOEmpireV2/status/1375068884584267778

I'm curious to hear what the Bitcointalk community thinks about this topic;

Casinos using fake bets to attract new players.

I was surprised to learn that the vast majority of videos and streams on Roobet.com are actually fake.
Here are a couple of examples of different deal formats that casinos are making with the influencers:

A) Bet amount inflation; The streamer only wants to gamble with $100. The site gives them "$10000" in funds, but only 1% of this is withdrawable. The viewers will think that the streamer is gambling with $10000, while in reality, they're only risking $100.

B) Infinite refills; The casino makes an agreement with the streamer. Let's say they want to pay the streamer $50,000 for a sponsorship contract. They start giving the streamer endless $1000 refills, which the streamer is supposed to gamble with. They will repeat this process until they "win" $50,000. The streamer will pretend to be shocked and highlight this big win in all of their social media channels. However, the truth is that there were zero risks involved for the streamer, and the final outcome was already known -- It was just a matter of time.

I brought this topic up in Roobet's Bitcointalk thread, and I was quite surprised to see a lot of people defending them, saying that this is totally justified. They mentioned points such as:
- "This has been going on for years. It's normal in the casino community."
- "The streamers are honest about it. They have a disclaimer somewhere stating that it's fake." (Their explanations usually are very indirect and abstract.)

In my personal opinion, this sort of marketing is highly deceiving and dishonest. Roobet (and other casinos) are inflating their systems with fake bets, pretending to be more popular than they really are. This is a loss for both, legit sites that don't want to inflate their numbers, and legit streamers who don't want to participate in the circus of fake bets and fake reactions.

What do you think?

[1715461193]

1715461193

[btc_angela]

It's in the grey area for me, casino's specially start up, really needs to attract new customer. And maybe this sort of fake bets or fake money could be a good tool in the beginning. But after that, they should stop promoting their casino's this way.

It's a cut throat business, you really need to think and innovate on how to market your casino. And just like any other niche market, they could use any strategy to be ahead of the competition, just saying.

[Natalim]

The question is, can we proved they are faking their bets?

If not then it will just remain a suspicion and it would not affect their reputation.

This can be similar to a trading sites which are faking their volume, and although per record they have a high trading volume but traders knows what exchange to trust, same with gambling, gamblers are smart and they value more the reputation of the site than what they will see in promotional marketing.

[Monarch-]

The question is, can we proved they are faking their bets?

Absolutely.

It seems to be common knowledge by now, hence why I didn't bother to list the evidence in the starting post. But, here are a couple of things to show:
1)
Roobet video uploaded 2 days ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyt-cgfKEbQ
Read the description: "All Balances you see on these videos is sponsored as part of my deal with the website."

2)
https://roobet.com/50k-pot-o-gold
Read the terms: "Sponsored funds will not reward tickets for the promotion."

If some people are still doubtful about this, I can spend some extra time to show more material. But, it should be quite obvious by now -- Pretty much all of their advertisers have somewhat admitted to gambling with monopoly money.

[Coin_trader]

That is paid adverts which is included on streamer disclaimer and that is a common practice on advertisement. The streamer is not doing a casino review so don’t expect that they will post an honest feedback. I will agree with if the video is from Roobet official because that is the real deception. The streamer agree to that terms of advertisement for entertainment purpose only and not for an honest feedback review.

Do you think coke zero really don’t have sugar? 

[Mauser]

I fell for Youtube Videos aswell who were gambling but in the end it was all staged. When you see big YouTubers gamble and win a lot of money you start thinking you can do so as well. Few years ago the first big scandal was with the CSGO case opening sites, where streamers were winning a lot of skins. In the end it came out that these streamers were actually owners of the gambling sites and could control the outcomes. I understand that casinos want to make advertisings as realistic as possible. But to be fair for you'd customers you should be making a disclaimer if the gambling is a promotion or real. I became much more sceptical in the last few years.

[tyz]

What do you think?

First of all, great topic and thread! I'm out of merits right now, but as soon as I get some back I'll get you a few.

Admittedly, I've also noticed that. Not only at Roobet but also at other casinos. It seems to be common practice to get users to bet higher sums, according to the motto: The streamer plays with $10,000 and I only play with a paltry $100. I think that's a gray area, but with unregulated casinos, like most of them here, there is nothing you can do about it, other than stay away from such casinos.

It is often the case that casinos still offer demo accounts where you can then get virtual $10,000 or so for your signup to test the service. At first glance, this demo account is indistinguishable from the real account, so streamers also use demo accounts to play and thus pretend to use a real account and thus real money.

[acroman08]

reading your post history it seems that your problem is with moe_tv. I get why you are questioning Roobet and I agree. but, why not just file a case against moe_tv? reading your post it was clear that he was defaming you and spreading false information against you and encouraging people to get your gambling license to be revoked by giving a false report on curacao. I'd say with all this thing you have a pretty good case against moe for defamation case unless of course, everything he said about you is true. but who knows.

[tyz]

In addition to the topic of demo accounts: I have already used demo accounts for myself and I had to find out that you have significantly higher chances of winning and once I even hit the jackpot. Of course, that didn't do me any good because it wasn't real money. Casinos also want to lure users according to the motto that it is really easy to win, if it works with the demo account, then it also works with the real money account.

This is deception in my opinion and is illegal. Streamers who also get involved and play with demo accounts without making this known to the users and telling them that they have a higher chance of winning are, in my opinion, also guilty of deliberate deception.

[Fundamentals Of]

I have to admit that this kind of promotion is somehow misleading to the gambling public. But I have also to admit that they are not really hurting anybody. I am not even sure if this is really cheating. How does it affect anybody if I want people to play at my site for free? In the end, it is the individual gambler who will decide whether to play or not in a specific gambling site. And the reason or reasons for the player to play is or are based on a certain standard he himself sets.

This is like newly-opened small restaurants, coffee shops, bar, etc whose owners are letting their friends eat and drink with huge discounts, a lot of freebies, or sometimes for free just to give a review, promotion, or even just physical presence at the place.

[dothebeats]

I genuinely do not like this idea, especially for those who are just starting and using the inorganic bets to lure in people. If the platform is good and enough marketing and advertisement is placed, it is the people's decision to play and make the bets for themselves, which will then continue to attract more players. Sponsoring other people to play in your site without instructing them to do and say certain things and letting them keep the profit to demonstrate how your platform works is a completely different thing. If that's their marketing strategy then I'm okay with it, but random bets from the platform itself to make it seem that people are playing on that site is rather shady and the platform should be, IMO, avoided.

[imstillthebest]

Do you think coke zero really don’t have sugar?  

all the time i believe they  dont have but i guess not anymore after you reveal the truth but what coke did was a false advert but in roobet they are honest as thier tagline  honest casino because they dont hide anything from us .
ill be more mad to the casino or to the streamer that decieves the public making us believe that you can win easily in the casino that they are advertising .
im not defending roobet but im only comparing roobet to the gambling site that are guilty

[mu_enrico]

Do you think coke zero really don’t have sugar? 

My opinion on this streamer issue is: "every streamer is honest before they get the casino deal."
I'm skeptical if there is a popular streamer who plays with his own money without involving deals. It's not something like renting a signature when promotors get paid, no matter if he plays or not. It's the way the slots streaming industry is, and viewers like the show.

Is it ethical or misleading? It's as ethical as sugar-free soda commercials, trading for profits, etc.

The question should be: "is it illegal?" If it is illegal, Twitch must/will take action about it. Until then, it's wild west there.

This debate is classic in the slots streaming industry. Probably you have to paint the majority of streamers as deceptive/misleading, plus casinos that use their services as well. Kindly report it to Twitch. If Twitch ignores your report, take legal actions or whatever.

No casino war or streamer war here please

[Monarch-]

reading your post history it seems that your problem is with moe_tv. I get why you are questioning Roobet and I agree. but, why not just file a case against moe_tv? reading your post it was clear that he was defaming you and spreading false information against you and encouraging people to get your gambling license to be revoked by giving a false report on curacao. I'd say with all this thing you have a pretty good case against moe for defamation case unless of course, everything he said about you is true. but who knows.

My Bitcointalk post history is practically empty. I've been a lurker for ages, but I made my first post in here just a couple of weeks ago.

Just to give you a little bit of context; I've been fighting against fraudulent operators in the gambling scene for years. In recent months, I've been investigating and calling out Moe for his shady activities. (To get a proper view of my real 'post history', have a look at https://twitter.com/CSGOEmpireV2)

While investigating Moe, I fell into this huge rabbit hole of fake bets -- At first, I figured out that Moe is creating fake content for Roobet, and shortly after I learned that almost all of Roobet's advertisers are doing the same thing.

What I'm trying to say is that this is another, separate topic. This post is not only related to Moe; It's related to all of Roobet's advertisers (which does also include Moe.)

[Boov]

On this accusations, I believed that we're not in a real world of gambling if they're using preprogrammed bets. That not fair to every gamblers who seems too serious about their actions pertaining on gambling set play.
I felt like cheated, and I am hoping right now that it won't be proven with strong evidence. Because in that case, online gambling reputation might turn down and might lost trust from users.

[Monarch-]

But I have also to admit that they are not really hurting anybody.

I very highly disagree.

- They hurt the naive people who see those ads, who are left with the false impression that gambling can be an easy way to make money. Especially minors can easily fall under this illusion when all of their favorite streamers and Youtubers keep showcasing their 'big wins' -- Without disclaiming the fact that it's completely fake.
- They hurt legit sites that don't want to participate in faking their bet amounts. Roobet, as an example, is pretending to be bigger than they truly are. A lot of people will follow the critical mass, and they will play in the casino which has the most activity. This is a loss for those casinos with better moral standards.
- They hurt legit gambling streamers and Youtubers who don't want to make fake bets with fake reactions. It's difficult for honest people to stand out with their bets of $50, while those fake streamers are pretending to gamble with tens of thousands.

I'm genuinely disgusted by the way Roobet runs their business. Their company is successful and highly profitable, and they could remain profitable even without doing all of this shady stuff. They made this explicit decision to choose the route of greediness, even though they had other options.

What makes the matter worse is that they're targeting lots of influencers who are primarily making content for children. As an example, they're sponsoring Jake Paul and Ricegum, which is absolutely disgusting, in my opinion. I could never imagine a respectable site like Stake.com to do anything like this.

Doing shady, dishonest stuff is a slippery slope; If Roobet is willing to create fake ads and massively inflate their bet counts on the website, this makes me wonder; What other immoral things would they be willing to do? Where would they draw the line? Based on what I've seen, it wouldn't surprise me even the slightest if Roobet would start directly scamming their customers. Based on my observations, their moral standards are non-existent.

[nasipadang]

Fake bets can have a very wide definition actually. What is fake? the odds or the incorrect displaying?

[Monarch-]

Fake bets can have a very wide definition actually. What is fake? the odds or the incorrect displaying?

In this thread, I'm referring to "bets" done by advertisers where they don't actually risk anything, or the real value is substantially lower than the amount they advertise.

Example:
A) Youtuber makes a video of a "$50.000" win when in reality, they were playing with non-withdrawable funds.
B) Site makes an agreement with the Youtuber for $50.000. They give the Youtuber infinite refills of $1000 each up until the point that they "win" $50.000. The Youtuber then happily advertises this, pretending as if they actually won $50.000, even though this outcome was completely predetermined.
C) Youtuber wants to gamble with $100. The site boosts their credit value by 1000x so that it looks like they're actually gambling with $100.000.

[crzy]

Fake bets can have a very wide definition actually. What is fake? the odds or the incorrect displaying?

That's why the house will always win because its their business, even the top gambling site have their own hidden agenda to attract gamblers and to gain more profit.

At least deal with the top gambling site, they offer good services and good security but of course you should not put all your money there since that's a risky way of making money and to some they gamble for fun only. Fake things are everywhere, always have your back-up research before you decide.

[Fundamentals Of]

But I have also to admit that they are not really hurting anybody.

I very highly disagree.

- They hurt the naive people who see those ads, who are left with the false impression that gambling can be an easy way to make money. Especially minors can easily fall under this illusion when all of their favorite streamers and Youtubers keep showcasing their 'big wins' -- Without disclaiming the fact that it's completely fake.
- They hurt legit sites that don't want to participate in faking their bet amounts. Roobet, as an example, is pretending to be bigger than they truly are. A lot of people will follow the critical mass, and they will play in the casino which has the most activity. This is a loss for those casinos with better moral standards.
- They hurt legit gambling streamers and Youtubers who don't want to make fake bets with fake reactions. It's difficult for honest people to stand out with their bets of $50, while those fake streamers are pretending to gamble with tens of thousands.

I'm genuinely disgusted by the way Roobet runs their business. Their company is successful and highly profitable, and they could remain profitable even without doing all of this shady stuff. They made this explicit decision to choose the route of greediness, even though they had other options.

What makes the matter worse is that they're targeting lots of influencers who are primarily making content for children. As an example, they're sponsoring Jake Paul and Ricegum, which is absolutely disgusting, in my opinion. I could never imagine a respectable site like Stake.com to do anything like this.

Doing shady, dishonest stuff is a slippery slope; If Roobet is willing to create fake ads and massively inflate their bet counts on the website, this makes me wonder; What other immoral things would they be willing to do? Where would they draw the line? Based on what I've seen, it wouldn't surprise me even the slightest if Roobet would start directly scamming their customers. Based on my observations, their moral standards are non-existent.

Much respect to your standard. However, naive people will always be hurt in this kind of world we are living in. Much of what we see around are fake nowadays. How I wish everything will be so genuine that no innocent individual would ever suffer from fake ads, news, promotion, education, promises, opportunities, etc.

Don't be misled by fake gamblers posing as real ones. I don't like Roobet's approach but I don't think it is illegal and so it is your responsibility to protect yourself against misleading promotion just as you need to protect yourself from misleading ads of fake milk, fake cheese, fake meat, fake flavor, fake ingredients, etc.