Not sure if this is really the copy I am still using, but I have one in my Galactic Milieu sourceforge account:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/galacticmilieu/files/CoiLedCoin/

Hmm actually I guess I am pretty sure that is NOT the one I am using, as consulting my source directory on compiling machine I find this:


So I guess I am using the one the mmpool (merged mining pool) guy made way back when.

Located at https://github.com/mmpool/coiledcoin

As it seems to be 8 years old, maybe it actually IS the same one; the package on my sourceforge might just be a tar.gz copy of my coiledcoin-git directory.

-MarkM-

Can't you go in two steps maybe?

There are some of the Sci-Fi coins that ARE on exchanges vs bitcoin, such as SCIFI itself, GPL2, KED and QBT.

So would you be able to trade SPICE for one of those then send those to an exchange to get BTC ?

From the crazy-low prices of such coins against BTC on such exchanges though it does look like trying to go to a top ten coin does incur quite a massive premium.

-MarkM-

Well now we have a venue where you keep custody of the buy side (in this case the XLM) even while it is in offers, hopefully we can build a strong buy-side in SPICE/XLM without the exchange running off with all our coins, buy-side included, which has happened so often.

Hopefully it is just a matter of time to get SPICE/XLM built up.

-MarkM-

Hmm well BBQ and NMC I haven't actually had any of for years, they are shown mostly as a relic of the scripts.

All my BTC is of course out on exchanges building buy-sides vs BTC for various of the others on various exchanges.

LTC I never did really get into, mostly it is still in the scripts because, like BTC, it is familiar to a lot of people. I do not actually have any.

I think all of the rest I have some of or can get some very easily; so maybe come up with a number of SPICE you're willing to part with for one or more of them at those prices...

The Devtome wiki is probably down right now though suppoedly it is in process of being put back online in read-only mode;

When it does come back online Galactic Milieu pages start at http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=galactic_milieu

There must be oodles of docs on the internet about how to use Stellar, maybe start at Stellar.org ?

The issuer account and asset labels are shown on my http://makemoney.knotwork.com/ site under stellar.

I update prices and maintain history tables of them starting at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html

-MarkM-

Wow quiet lot here aren't you?

How much are you folks buying and selling SPICE for now?

Here are values of a bunch of other things again, updated, expressed in how much SPICE each:

BBQrate=.00000603
sBCErate=10.38685772
sBCIrate=1.31362896
sBMCrate=1.36468885
sBRFrate=1.51812862
BTCrate=2382.61382207
CDNrate=.91012138
CLCrate=.00313503
sCMCrate=1.33484184
sCRFrate=28.60714109
CZBrate=.00644788
DVCrate=.00010272
sDVCrate=85.86983950
FBXrate=.00678171
sGDCrate=91.03302110
sGFCrate=331.09494989
sGHCrate=22.45755621
GMCrate=1.09530523
GPLrate=.99807729
GPL2rate=.74111680
sGRCrate=100.92327714
GRFrate=1.98743219
GRPrate=.01446362
sGRPrate=.46823512
I0Crate=.04288059
IXCrate=.04230440
LTCrate=15.51319859
MBCrate=2.13783103
NKLrate=.03746914
NMCrate=.13271158
NRDrate=.01990599
SPICErate=1.00000000
TBXrate=.00678171
UFCrate=.00422840
UKBrate=.91624950
UNSrate=1.02820898
USFrate=.00302249
XGGrate=.00307694

IF you lot are not willing to buy or sell at those prices, I am intereed to know what you are willing to sell for and how many SPICE you are willing to sell for your quoted price, and how many you are willing to buy at what price.

-MarkM-

No I did not. Whatever one I am on seems to have plenty of difficulty and I withdrew from an exchange no problem and sent to another exchange.

So I had no idea anyone was using any other version of the blockchain.

My daemon says

 "version": 140100,
  "protocolversion": 110014,
  "walletversion": 10500,

and

  "difficulty": 205692676.8288897,

How much hashpower does the other fork have?

-MarkM-

What fork?

I am not aware of any fork.

-MarkM-

Do you include GRouPcoin and CoiLedCoin in your merge? How about UNObtanium?

Do you find GeistGeld's six-second block-target too fast to the point it messes with the efficiency of other coins if you merge it?

What software are you using for your merge?

-MarkM-

I do not know of any chain-split. I send IXC withdrawn from CoinExchange.io home and then on to FreiExchange wihout any problem.

IXC can be traded on HORIZON and STELLAR too, see http://makemoney.knotwork.com/

-MarkM-

IXCoin is available crazy-cheap on at least three exchanges right now, how come you-lot aren't snapping it up?

The more you buy the stronger I can build up the buy-side of the order-books.

Or hey, feel free to dump, my buy offers are piled up waiting for more dirt-cheap IXCoin to be dumped on me...

-MarkM-

I did not make tokens representing ALL my DeVCoins, largely BECAUSE that would eventually lead to problems/awkwardness with cold storage.

What I always tried to do right from the start of the Digitalis Open Transactions Server was to "logically divide" custody/storage from the bailing-in / bailing-out process.

So that it can be thought of and treated as two separate things.

First there is the storage/custody entity, it issues tokens representing coins that it has stored away.

Secondly there are bailing-in / bailing-out entitities, they buy and sell those tokens.

That is basically how e-gold was set up: you did not send in gold nor get sent gold by e-gold.

There were intermediaries, supposedly they could ship kilograms of gold to e-gold and get kilograms of gold shipped to them, but actually in e-gold's case the gold itself was not really the point, the layer of intermediaries ordinary folks worked with were ones that sold e-gold (tokens, basically) for fiat and bought e-gold for fiat.

In our case those would be intermediaries that buy dDVC (digiDeVCoins, tokens) for actual on-blockchain DVC and sell dDVC for actual on-blockchain DeVCoins.

Normally in Stellar and Ripple and such, they make a website that actually creates new tokens when it thinks has received actual on-blockchain coins, and accepts tokens, basically deleting them, to send out on-blockchain coins.

That means it works with hot wallets, and issues tokens that represent coins it thinks it received into a hot wallet.

I never wanted to have to get that risky.

So I took only half of the coins I had on hand to issue tokens for.

That way the other half of my coins is left free for use by the bailing-in / bailing-out type of entity; it uses those coins, not the ones cold-stored somewhere to be represented as tokens, to do the cashing-in / cashing-out job.

This means you cannot simply send me a billion on-blockchain DeVCoins in return for a billion dDVC tokens unless I actually already have on hand a billion such tokens, meaning that I already have a billion actual DeVCoins in cold storage.

That is a limitation of my approach. Before I can be ready to give you tokens for actual coins, I have to already have that many coins, and have represented them with tokens. *


So there is a kind of "transaction bandwidth" limitation imposed by this way of doing things; it is a trade-off that allows the tokens we are trading to be representing older coins, coins that are already in storage; it allows us to take a long long time about making sure we really do have the coins, that it is way way too late for anyone to try to change blockchain history to un-do the fact that we really do have those coins. **

It also "ties up" coins. Once we tokenise coins, they are not about to show up for sale anywhere until we shut down operations thus no longer need any tokens representing those coins.

So basically I should never need to break coins out of cold storage to cash your tokens back to on-blockchain coins.

It is a kind of 200%-reserve system. I should be able to cash out all the tokens using the other half of my coins.

The coins represented by the tokens should be able to be buried in the Fortress of Solitude "forever", no need to dig them up.

You can see on the blockchain explorer that I have something over 500 million DeVCoins in my Devtome-listed address.

There should be less than 250 million dDVC tokens issued so far in total across all platforms. I am pretty sure that is the case.

To help keep track I plan to get the totals to be on the HORIZON platform by putting into a "Stellar Holdings" account on HORIZON tokens representing coins issued onto the Stellar platform so that I can just look at that Stellar Holdings account on HORIZON to know how many of what has been issued onto the Stellar platform. Right now for some things I have to look at both HORIZON and STELLAR issuances to add up how much of each thing I have issued, consolidating it this way will mean I can know how much of each was issued just by looking at HORIZON, with the Stellar Holdings account on HORIZON showing me how much was issued onto the Stellar platform.

Just like how you could buy e-gold from various dealers and sell your e-gold for fiat to various dealers, there is room in this system for third party dealers to do the bailing-in / bailing-out function of selling you tokens for coins and accepting coins for tokens. Hopefully some of them will even set up automated websites to do that. Such websites would of course only sell you tokens they actually have on hand, just like they would only send you fiat that they actually have on hand if buying with fiat.



* : Hence no KED tokens yet. I first need to acquire some KED so I can issue tokens representing half of those that I acquire.

** : This is particularly important for coins that are Proof-of-Work yet have hardly any hashpower actually mining them from time to time. It is what allows us to trade coins whose blockchains are not what one might call "extremely secure".

-MarkM-

Yes we really need more activity on the Stellar platform.

Once upon a time Unthinkingbit even said twelve people could each get a "share" of DeVCoins for helping with this, but no one ever stepped up.

I do not know what you-all have against the Stellar platform?

-MarkM-

By using the "treasuries" system to calculate the value of each coin based upon the "treasury" of the Civilisation, Nation, Corp, Clan etc etc whose currency it "is" (in the game), you can almost kind of look at all the coins so far thus treated as in a way just various different "denominations" of "the same darn thing".

So even if you (probably quite rightly) are dubious about the overall "real value" of any of it, if nothing else it ought to seem somewhat reasonable to consider the resulting relative values of those coins, all computed relative to each other from the "treasuries" each holds of the others, as having at least some leanings toward validity.

An unfortunate (for some folks anyway) side-effect of thinking of them this way is that you could thus choose to look at any one of them that has managed to get itself listed on "an exchange" as a yardstick from which to calculate the value of all the others as compared to whatever the one that is on an exchange is paired against on the exchange.

So for example if DeVCoin were on an exchange you could look at the Latest Rates include-file, which shows the value of various things in terms of DeVCoins (how much each thing is worth in DeVCoins), and, by reference to the price of a DeVCoin on some exchange or other, you could compute the value of all the other things in the file whose value is computed for that file from a "treasury".

It might not escape your notice that the file does list a few things that are NOT computed from a "treasury" thus are not really currently a direct full part of "that same darn thing" above-mentioned.

For example BiTCoin and LiTeCoin both lack such a "treasury".

So feel free to ignore the purported values shown in that file for such items.

Heck, it seems like lately BitCoins and LiTeCoins are worth a heck of a lot more DeVCoins than the file typically shows, IF you consult "exchanges".

The thing is, there are very few assets listed there that are on any "exchanges", or, indeed, have ever been on any "exchanges".

So the few that do get onto an exchange from time to time are for many people the only chances they get to cash any of those assets out to fiat.

And a lot of people are still really fond of fiat.

So it can probably be expected that on "spot markets" whichever of the denominations get onto an exchange are likely to fetch premium prices in terms of the other denominations.

While at the same time, also fetch un-premium  --  anti-premium --  prices on the exchanges as folks fall all over each other in a "race to the bottom" trying to convert out to fiat.

Then too, the whole crypto field has been in a horrible "bear market" for a couple of years now almost, such that even the most famous and well-regarded coins have been fetching insanely low prices in fiat. Heck, who thought we'd ever see bitcoin below ten grand American for gosh sakes?!

So anyway, maybe it could be useful from some folks' point of view to kind of average some kind of a conversion rate for "that whole darn thing" by figuring out the average difference between what the Latest Rates thinks a thing that does have a "treasury" its value is computed by is worth and what that same thing fetches on "exchanges".

Since the "treasuries based" value is a kind of attempt at a "fundamental" value, one could think of such a ratio/difference as being the difference between fundamental value and "discovered price".

If that is a valid way of looking at it though, the implication seems to be that currently the "discovered" prices seem typically to be bargains.

I have been thinking for a long time that according to market theory, so called "arbitragers" are supposed to be out there somewhere running around taking advantage of any areas in which markets are not all in agreement about what something is worth, snapping up anything that is a bargain in some places as compared to how much they can get for it in another place.

But I think maybe in this case it is not only that arbitragers are not paying close enough attention and acting swiftly but also that how you see it all, as a potential arbitrager, might depend quite a bit upon what your "home currency" happens to be.

Then too, also maybe that arbitrage over time is a bit different than instant-gratification arbitrage.

Personally I have tended, as a market-maker, which is maybe not really the same thing at all as an arbitrager, to not worry about the supposed value in terms of some third, fourth (etc) currency of either of the two involved in a pair I am market-making with, so maybe I just have not been seeing things the same way many or most other traders do.

For example in marketmaking DVC/BTC, I0C/BTC, IXC/BTC etc I do not worry about the value of either side of the pair in dollars or yen or francs or litecoins or even big macs or icecream cones, I just focus on increasing my holdings of both sides of the pair, building up both the buy side and the sell side, and in fact bearing in mind that of course which side is which depends mostly on which side you have some of and which side you are trying to get some of.

Whereas I suspect that some traders are not thinking of whether they are getting the non-bitcoin side for less satoshis than before, or getting more satoshis for them, but rather a more complicated calculation, worrying whether they are getting more dollars for them or getting them for less dollars. Or yen. Or francs. Or icecream cones or whatever.

And maybe that is actually a more sensible approach? Afterall, if both sides of a pair I am working with are going down in number of icecream cones they can buy, does it matter whether I am steadily accumulating more of both sides of my pair?

Hmm. Food for thought. But more of them presumably would buy more icecream than less of them would, so maybe "its all good"?

-MarkM-

I think I read something recently from someone trying to get a coin listed on CoinMarketCap, apparently the coin has to be on two exchanges both of which are themselves already listed on CoinMarketCap.

-MarkM-

Hmmm yeah the blockchain is already in synch.

What needs to be re-synchronised is the receiver-files collection.

Everyone needs to install the same set of them that have all been updated to contain valid repositories of them, so even nodes starting from scratch from the very first receiver-file get the correct list of repositories all through the set so each time they go for the next one they still find it.

(As too many of the old URLs are now dead.)

We did this at least once before.

-MarkM-

Oh cool I did not know I0Coin was still on any exchanges, I could not find it on CoinMarketCap to find out.

IXCoin has buy offers every satoshi of price all the way up on Yobit, though I admit there is probably good reason to be suspicious of Yobit since for literally years now I have been periodically reminding them in support tickets that the transaction they claimed to have sent my 140,000 or so AXIOM coins in does not exist on the AXIOM blockchain nor on the forked AXIOM blockchain that I split off as AXON when the fork was so bad it did not seem to be resolvable. They do not even respond to the support tickets. So I can understand why few people seem willing to risk trying them.

I do not know about Freiexchange, is that one that was created for Freicoin way back when or some new possibly fly-by-night exchange?

I am very reluctant to start committing resources to yet another new unknown exchange when so many have run off with our money already.

It kind of makes sense that you cannot sell DeVCoin for a whole satoshi given that it had been down to about a third of a satoshi on the previous exchange it had been on, where one of its pairs was LiTeCoin.

Mind you that too was a new out of the blue fly by night "exchange" that basically ran off with all our money so it is not really surprising that no one had been willing to build a strong buy-side there.

The only reason I am bothering to work on the buy sides of FED, GPL2 etc (the sci-fi themed coins) on LiveCoin.net, which for all I know is yet another exchange just biding its time waiting for the best moment to claim to have been hacked or to simply fly by night, is I have to be on there anyway right now to sell DMD thus have been doing DMD market-making on there, so I have been sidetracking little bits of bitcoin here and there from my DMD work to start building up Sci-Fi themed coins. Maybe we can get LiveCoin to create a DMD/DVC pair or something?

However, a whole lot of these coins can be traded on HORIZON against HZ (for which reason it would be handy to get HZ back onto Poloniex or something) and they all can be traded directly against each other on STELLAR.

The more of them we can get listed on decent exchanges the better though, since if only very few of them are listed, as has been the case for years now, whichever of them IS listed tends to end up being the dumping route for all of them, so all the dumping anyone wants to do of any of them all ends up routed through whichever one of them they can find a route out to fiat through. In much the same way that having so many coins trade against bitcoin makes bitcoin bear the brunt of all the dumping anyone wants to do of an of the many many coins that are paired against bitcoin.

I am really sick of exchanges running off with all the bitcoins every time I build up a strong buy-side for a coin against bitcoin, so I am trying to focus my market-making efforts on the HORIZON and STELLAR platforms where I can feel more confident that my HZ and XLM coins, as well as all my other coins, are more secure than on some random new out of the blue previously unheard-of exchange.

Since the buy side of IXCoin on Yobit still goes all the way up to 222 satoshis, and I have a buy offer of 100 coins each satoshi all the way up, you should be able to sell almost 22200 IXCoins there. Actually I tihnk more, as likely my offers are for more than 100 coins toward the bottom of the price-range. I say almost though be cause some of the 100 buy offer I have at 222 satoshis has already been taken. As more of my sell offers are taken I will continue strengthening the buy-side, and if they re-instate I0Coin I will send some I0Coin back there again (was it there before?) likewise if they list DeVCoin, being as how I am already on that exchange.

Starting afresh on some new exchange that someone possibly created just to steal coins and/or identities/passwords seems less and less of a good idea with each one that rips us off.

You should try to bear in mind that money is basically an I.O.U, if you sell some you should be prepared to buy it back; don't dump it like some kind of fly by night ripoff artist, be a responsible coin-shop willing to buy back the coins you sell, making your money from "a small re-stocking fee on returned coins" or the gap between the sell price and buy price.

-MarkM-

This coin is the "unit of account" for a massive amount of "accounts receivable" and is also a "reserve currency".

There is also a whole "DeVCoin-based economy" in the Galactic Milieu in which quite a lot of DeVCoin is tied up.

The longer you-lot keep trying to make DeVCoin appear "worthless" the easier it is for debtors to pay off the over 2900 BILLION DeVCoins they owe.

If you-lot had upheld the value of the coin enough it might not have been necessary for the creditors to have to become so willing to accept payments against those accounts-receivable in coins other than DeVCoins themselves, thus the debtors would have had to actually BUY DeVCoins with which to make their payments. But that become totally impractical years ago when Devtome authors started just dumping their coins instead of inveting them into various facets of the DeVCoin-based economy. So you've maybe only yourselves to blame for the fact all that economic activity gets to just look up the supposed value of a DeVCoin and pay "an equivalent value" in some other currency of their choosing.

Then again maybe what was really going on was the authors on Devtome were the very same people who owed billions upon billions upon billions of DeVCoin? So had a big incentive to make sure the value of DeVCoin stayed as low as they could make it so that they could pay off those debts all the faster?

There are many currencies you can convert DeVCoin into, and even now there are still some of them that are still somehow managing to continue having a spot on various web-based "crypto exchanges".

It does keep getting harder, yes, because every time we manage to build up a good solid buy-side for one of our coins on one of the "exchanges" the "exchange" claims to have been hacked and runs off with all the coins, or it de-lists the coin due to the fact we tend to trade mostly over-the-counter or on HORIZON or STELLAR networks so maybe do not provide as much "volume" to the exchanges as they would like.

Partly this is also probably due to so many folks still not recognising how much the coins tie together, so as more and more of the coins that are still on "exchanges" fall off of them they do not see that as affecting some one particular coin they happen to favour, being as how they themselves maybe had not been in the habit of trading "their" coin for various of the others that are on exchanges.

The fact is the number of "our" coins that are still on exchanges has been shrinking for years, and some of them (CoiLedCoin, GRouPcoin, GeistGeld, TeneBriX and FairBrix come to mind) never even got onto any exchanges and no one seemed to care, maybe because they could always just trade them for DeVCoin, I0Coin or IXCoin all of which were still on exchanges.

But wake up folks, I am not sure I0Coin is on any exchanges anymore, I do not think IXCoin is on many, I am trying to start building buy-sides for GPL2, KED, SCIFI and QBT on LiveCoin but would not be surprised if as soon as I build them up strongly they will claim to have been hacked and run away with all the money. That is why I keep trying to just stick to HORIZON and STELLAR, at least there I know the coins are actually present and accounted for.

-MarkM-

My nodes stopped complaining long ago now.

Are you sure miners behave differently?

It seems reasonable that once a round begins it is "too late", to keep trying to get the files after that just makes more and more of a re-organisation (fork undo) be needed if suddenly such files did appear.

Having such files available now seems likely to confuse any new nodes that try to catch up with the blockchain.

-MarkM-

 I am not sure how many blocks in advance is the biggest random number of blocks in advance that a node can choose to start trying to get the files.

It keeps trying until presumably it either succeeds or the round starts without the files.

I saw endless stream of node's complaints of not enough identical files since before the round began, but when I went looking after someone pointed out that minting had changed I noiced it has stopped pringing those complaints. So it looks like once the round has begun, or shortly after it has begun, without he files, it is too late to get the files.

Each rounded evidently does or does not have a receiver file in time.

-MarkM-

I think it is simply doing what it is designed to do in the event that "file custodians" do not put the new receiver files online in time.

Basically it got to the start of the new round, could not find enough identical receiver files, which each node would have started to look for a different random number of blocks before the end of the previous round in order not to all go looking at once and in order to ensure by the time the new round began it would alreay have the new receiver file in place; thus it had to go ahead with this round without a receiver file, and to draw even the miner's attemption to that fact it halves even the miner's payout (to give miner an incentive to keep the file custodians doing their thing, and for the miners to actually use the receiver files).

So I think it is doing exactly what it is supposed to do.

Unthinkingbit was worried it was taking so long to get the files in place, as he figured about the 17th of the month they should have been in place.

(Or maybe he meant that by the 17th I should have generated the file for others to grab, so they could all grab it in plenty of time.)

Now I guess we will have to rename the 99 file as 100 and wait for the next round, which hopefully we won't be too late getting the files in place for.

And of course since the blockchain is running this round as a no-receive-rfile round, we have to get rid of those 99 files so anyone trying to catch up to the blockchain from scratch does not crap out on round 99 due to thinking it had a reeiver file when in fact at the time it actually happened in real life it did not.

It is important to have those files in plae BEFORE the first block of the new round is mined if we actually want a receiver file to be used for the round.

Basically we just dawdled and delayed and filed to have them in place by the 17th or whenever it was that nodes started going out looking for the next round receiver file so as to be ready when the new round came along.

This is something that obviously had to be done, since no way should the blockchain stall, user's transactions failing to transact and so on, merely due to file custodians screwing up.

By affecting the income of the miners to, it ensures the miners have an incentive to try to make sure there are resposible custodians who are doing their job on time.

-MarkM-