AXON is trade-able on the Stellar platform, see http://makemoney.knotwork.com/stellar/

-MarkM-

GPL2 is trade-able on the Stellar platform, along with various other of the Sci-Fi coins and also GPL Classic (ticker: GPL).

See http://makemoney.knotwork.com/

It should also be on the HORIZON network soon, see horizon section of that same website.

-MarkM-

GPL Classic is trade-able on the Stellar platform, along with various other of the Sci-Fi coins and also GPL2.

See http://makemoney.knotwork.com/

It should also be on the HORIZON network, see horizon section of that same website.

I do not recall off-hand whether there are any offers on the HORIZON network yet but on Stellar I just put a bunch so I know there are some there.

We could use a few more people devoting a CPU-core (or even a few) to mining GPL Classic because currently there are not quite enough to keep a block an hour being mined, and as soon as an hour goes by without a block all the mining wallets become unable to mine for some reason (a bug or something?) so we need just enough miners to keep the blockchain moving at one block per hour.

It might be that just one person using a GPU could manage that, but since seemingly no-one is using GPUs why drive up the difficulty making it more expensive for everyone? If we can do it just with CPUs we might as well do so.

-MarkM-

I got tired of waiting for Open Transactions to finalise their data-formats.

So I have been moving ahead with migration to the HORIZON and STELLAR networks.

See http://makemoney.knotwork.com/ for lists of assets.

Specifically see http://makemoney.knotwork.com/stellar/ and http://makemoney.knotwork.com/horizon/assets/

The tables of asset values are still at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html and updated periodically.

Most balances have been migrated by now. So now the process of market-making is under way.

So far most posts about these migrations have been on the announce threads of various coins, but probably this thread makes more sense as a place to try to centralise posts about this project.

Users of the various "Sci-Fi themed" coins will hopefully be pleased to hear that several of those coins are in the process of being adopted into this project.

-MarkM-

A bunch of the Sci-Fi themed coins can also be traded on the HORIZON and STELLAR networks, see

http://makemoney.knotwork.com/

( Specifically http://makemoney.knotwork.com/stellar/ and http://makemoney.knotwork.com/horizon/assets/ )

-MarkM-

http://makemoney.knotwork.com/stellar/

It looks like I really DO need help with this, because I have discovered a bug in my wallet/client, after the first few hundred offers it no longer shows me my offers in any trading pair except the first hundred or few hundred or whatever the limit is offers on the first trading pair or few trading pairs.

So I cannot tell where I am up to, I cannot cancel offers (as cancel is on the list of offers), basically it is horribly crippled.

This is the stellarchat client, also known as Foxlet. I tried another client and it did not seem to have trading at all!

And obviously I am not going to try to do this on some third party web-based wallet as they could trivially-easily snoop my secret keys.

So it absolutely has to be a wallet I can run on my own desktop machine.

I have posted an issue but it looks like they maybe have not touched their github for 8 months or so.

So I am just struggling by with a broken client, only able to see the top 15 buy or sell offers of each pair and I am not even certain yet whether once someone else also posts offers there will be any way to tell which of the offers are mine.

Horrible! There was an old chinese exchange that had a somewhat similar problem once upon a time, the one where BBQcoin was traded (and, I think maybe even is still traded) and as far as I know they never fixed the problem so I am not really all that confident these wallet developers will ever fix theirs either since I came across the problem in version 3.3 went to their github and got the latest release, version 4.4 yet the problem is STILL there! Insane!

-MarkM-

Is there a desktop wallet for Stellar which is not broken with regard to trade offers in the way that the Foxlet one is?

Basically I started to make offers in my usual way, which is to offer to buy or sell 100 coins every 5 or 10 satoshis or so of price, and after a while (just a few nundred offers I think) it no longer displayed my offers so I am unable to cancel them since the cancel button is on the displayed list of my offers.

Furthermore when I moved on to other assets to place my offers for those, they do not show ANY of my offers, as if the fact it already filled the first asset's display of my offers left it somehow unable to display any other asset's list of my offers.

So now I am down to only placing 15 buy or sell offers to fill the display of all offers, and cannot tell later whether the 15 displayed in the future are mine or someone else's since all I get to see it the first 15 offers of anyone's and no display of my own offers and thus no way to cancel any of my offers. (Except the few hundred original offers in the first asset or two that I set out to do market-making for.)

I liked the fact that with that wallet I can easily see the tecxt-files for my accounts, but it seems totally broken for actual trading.

I tried downloading another wallet that came as an app-something for linux I just make executable and run, but on running it I did not seem able to use it to access my existing accounts and there was no clue where, if anywhere, it was recording my account, basically I could not even get into my accounts using it.

I need a wallet that will let me actually see and have cancel ability for however many thousands of offers I have over however many different assets I work with.

The so called "setup" did not seem to provide any settings for how many offers you want to see per page or anthing like that,I could not find any way around the bug.

The bug existed in version 3.3 so I downloaded the latest, 4.4 but the problem is still there.

-MarkM-

IXCoin is one of the coins I have issued onto the Stellar network, which is a platform that does not insist its own native coin (Stellar Lumens, XLM) has to be part of every trading-pair. Thus in addition to being able to trade IXC/XLM I am also going to be setting up IXC/DVC since I customarily use DeVCoins as the base price in my "Latest rates include file" found online at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/latestrates.inc

I also have issued IXCoins onto the HORIZON network.

See http://makemoney.knotwork.com/ for lists of the assets I am making available on HORIZON and on Stellar.

-MarkM-

There are shares of DeVCoin available for twelve people to help me with what Unthinkingbit refers to as my "exchange project", which is basically the implementation of trading on the HORIZON and Stellar networks.

Particularly useful would be people who would provide bail-in and bail-out services to users, that is, accepting coins on their native blockchain from a user and issuing them tokens for them on the HORIZON or Stellar network in return (bailing in) and accepting such tokens from users, sending them actual coins on the blockchain in return (balling out).

(Basically you would buy tokens using real on-blockchain coins and sell tokens for real on-blockchain coins.)

Also useful would be market-making, that is, keeping the order-books full of buy and sell offers.

I have been working on the Stellar platform today, since Stellar lets you trade any asset against any asset so I have been able to create GRP/DVC, I0C/DVC, IXC/DVC, CLC/DVC, XGG, FBX/DVC and TBX/DEV pairs so far. That means folks can now buy I0C, IXC, FBX and TBX using DVC on the Stellar platform.

On the HORIZON platform all pairs must invlve the HZ coin, the native coin of the platform, so there I cannot provide direct pairs of DVC versus things other thqan HZ itself.

Lists of assets are online at http://makemoney.knotwork.com/ although I am not convinced those pages areup to date, I expect that some of the assets I have put in place Ihave not yet gotten around to posting one of those pages for. So the lists at that site might not be complete.

I did check as I worked today though to make sure that under Stellar there are pages for IXC, I0C, CLC, XGG, FBX and TBX.

When DVC was first created, we had been using GRP to prototype with; GRP produces only 50 coins per block whereas DVC produces 50,000 per block, so players (of the Galactic Milieu naturally expected that GRP coins would each be worth 1000 DVC coins, being as how both were merged-mined alongside bitcoin so 50 coins of GRP ought to come into existence for every 50,000 coins of DVC. Yet for whatever reason, that never did quite seem to pan out. Hmm.

I will be working on a bunch of the so-called "Sci-Fi themed coins" also shortly such as SPICE (Melange), GPL (Gold Pressed Latinum, also known now as GPL Classic since the advent of GPL2) and so on (including the new GPL2).

In effect we are implementing, on the Stellar network, an exchange in which DeVCoin can be the coin you buy other coins with.

-MarkM-

There are plenty of market-makers and markets on Stellar, but for a certain bunch of coins most of which are not on any of the normal exchanges I have issued tokens on HORIZON and Stellar networks so that players of the Galactic Milieu can make use of them.

Mostly this is the galactic big seven, a bunch of coins merged-mined alongside bitcoin since time immemorial, and a bunch of "Sci-Fi themed coins".

For coins that have a nation, corp, or whatever behind them in the game I calculate the value as the value of that nation or corp or whatever's treasury divided by the number of coins minted. For coins that have not yet been adopted by a civilisation or nation or Corp or whatever but are on an exchange somewhere I do unfortunately have to resort to looking at the current prices on that exchange or on CoinMarketCap. That includes bitcoin even though in the game bitcoin is supposedly the currency of the civilisation known as "Hackers" whose technology level is so high it might almost be indistinguishable from magick. (Most civilisations consider the Hackers, like "the planet known as Earth", mythical/fictitious.)

Eventually I hoped some kind of nation and corp auditing data could be put out periodically by some kind of publishing corp that would sell reports to interested nations and corps, and maybe also post them in libraries in various cities in the game and things like that. So far mostly everything is still in development. Maybe someone who has a ninja or thief character (someone in other words who might plausibly pass for a professional spy or somesuch) on the Galactic Diplomacy World (the CrossCiv Crossfire RPG server) will take up the task of obtaining all the nitty bitty details about the treasuries and transactions of the various civilisations corps etc and make such information available to other characters who visit that diplomacy world. If we make too much data available outeside the rabbit-holes, to people who might not even actually have a character in the game anywhere, that kind of subtracts from the lists of reasons why one might bother to actually play the darn game.

Someone on the I0Coin thread wants to buy some I0Coin so I have finally gotten back to setting up trade offers on the Stellar network, I will try to get I0C/XLM and IXC/XLM done then maybe start making trade offers using DVC instead of XLM as the counter-asset so maybe more folks looking to be able to actually spend their DeVCoins might decide to get involved on the Stellar platform.

-MarkM-

Hmm lets use the actual trading mechanism built into Stellar. I will fire up Stellar and put a bunch of I0C tokens for sale for Stellar Lumens (XLM) if I have not done so already. I have been meaning to for so long that I don't remember whether I ever actually found time to do it. So I guess if it is not already done the time to do it has come. Hopefully I'll also find time to do the same for IXCoin, DeVCoin and so on through the list of all the coins I have implemented, and what the heck I'll also check each one as I come to it to make sure I did post an info page about it on the http://makemoney.knotwork.com/ site stating its symbol and issuing account and issued-to account.

So you should be able to look at the page http://makemoney.knotwork.com/stellar/i0c/ and see there that the symbol is I0C, the issuing account is GBHAQ252S4Z4AQOM4BWIRC3UHAOJIKCZQBUJGD336YH2O7W2NKRXMHA5 and the issued-to account is GATCAX6Q2TGGGU4Y7NJOSJCQ3SXZUWBTLJOKHKOK7LXZODXDJQCWXGX6

The page also attempts to explain that part of the purpose of having an issued-to account is so that folks don't send the tokens back to the issuing account, which would un-issue the tokens. I know a lot of exchanges do like to issue and un-issue tokens dynamically as people deposit and withdraw, but I prefer to issue in advance a number of tokens representing real coins I really have on hand on their own blockchain in my own wallet and in effect buy and sell those tokens rather than risking any kind of "live" ("hot") creation and destruction of tokens as coins come and go from a "hot" wallet.

The issued-to account also helps me keep track of how many I actually issued of each token since I set the trust line of the issued-to account to the number I issue.

I got the above info by looking at the page so yes I did already get around to making I0Coin-on-Stellar's page.

Now I just need to fire up my Stellar wallet and see about placing some I0C tokens for sale for Lumens if I haven't done that already.

When the time comes that you want to "bail out" I0C tokens for real I0Coins on I0Coin's own blockchain you will be sending the I0C tokens to the issued-to address so that the tokens still exist (because, afterall, the real coins they stand for still exist), and I will send you I0Coin on the I0Coin blockchain. I have more than twice as many I0Coins as the number I have issued tokens for so basically I will be buying the tokens using other I0Coins not un-issuing the tokens. (The tokens remain, to represent other coins I still have securely in a wallet even after buying the tokens from you with real coins.)

Don't just blindly send tokens to their issued-to address without warning though; we will need to co-ordinate so I know they are coming and to what real-coin-blockchain address to send you the real coins.

OK I am off to fire up my Stellar wallet now...

...OK I put a whole pile of buy and sell offers I0C/XLM. Too many buy offers actually, ran out of lumens oops.

Have started to put sell offers of other coins too but I guess I won't be able to put in buy offers for them until I get some lumens by folks taking up my sell offers.

-MarkM-

Maybe use the Stellar platform? Make an offer. On the Stellar network you can offer anything for anything, you do not have to use Stellar Lumens as part of the trading pair.

See http://makemoney.knotwork.com/ for asset ID and issuing account.

The one glitch I foresee with the Stellar and HORIZON platforms though is as far as I know there is still no code for automated sites for bailing coins into and out of the platform that is considered robust enough for production use. Presumably all the exchanges that have deposit/withdraw on Stellar either are using dubious code or fixed the code without releasing the fixed version back into the free open source repository. This means I have to manually redeem tokens for actual one-blockchain coins and manually give folks tokens in return for actual on-blockchain coins, which obviously is not worth the time and effort for trivial quantities.

Thus although in principle you can trade anything for anything on the Stellar network in practice is is probably easiest to offer Stellar Lumens, and of course to buy enough of a coin to make it worth the manual time and effort of sending out actual coins to you on the blockchain.

So I guess in practice I am going to have to end up either charging a manual-handling fee of some kind for puny amounts or only cash people out when they have a hefy amount of coin to cash out. ( Like hey if you wanna cash in or out 100k+ I0Coins or IXCoins I won't need to charge a fee as that'd be a significant enough amount to be worth my time. )

You can buy Stellar Lumens lots of places. If Ripple XLM would be more up your alley then go ahead and make an offer on the Ripple network, since with both Stellar and Ripple it is really the person getting the newly-invented token that "invents" it, not the "issuer". That is to say, you can make up an asset, such as "I0C" for example, "trust" my issuer account for X number of them, and presto the network will let me send you some of those newfangled I0Us you just invented. I won't even be told I am to be their issuer, those networks are weird that way, if I go to send you something they will simply ist the new asset among the assets I can send you, despite the fact I have none and never heard of them before, and let me send them, creating them as IOUs (I owe you x number of them) as I send them.

I have not really gotten into using Ripple for this yet since a potential problemwith RIpple is that the company behind it seems to have pulled away from the original concept whereby it was an IOU network where anyone could owe anyone anything, and moved toward know your customer and anti-money-laundering and so onto such an extent that they stopped having an actual wallet a user can have at home. So Stellar is very much preferred. With Stellar we can run our own wallets on our own machines. So hmm yeah although in theory we could use Ripple I am thinking it is probably best to just avoid ripple as being too much like "big brother", too suspect. I would accept payment for stuff in Ripple XRP's though since they are an easy-to-sell-for-dollars token.

Ultimately though you have to trust me however we do it. So maybe right out in public is better than private messaging so if I rip you off everyone can see that I did.

-MarkM-

LiTeCoin has been going up fast lately, so that rates file is probably quite out of date by now regarding LiTeCoin.

It is generated along with all those other tables ( http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html ), lately only about once or twice each month. You can see from the dates on the other tables that the last time it was run was June 1st 2019, so those "Latest rates" are as of then.

The rates tend to work best for assets whose value can be computed by dividing the asset's treasury by the number of coins/shares/whatever, since those things tend usually to move more slowly. Although those things also often have oodles of additional "stuff" behind them beyond just what is in their "treasury" so maybe they are somewhat under-estimated by only adding up their warchest/treasury. (For example the United Kingdom Britcoin and the Canadian Digital Note do not try to account for the guildhouses, equipment etc the Brits and Canucks own on the CoffeeMUD platform and the Crossfire RPG platform, nor for the civilisations they control on FreeCiv worlds, and not even the stashes of their own coin they each have separated out from their treasury/warchest account yet could if they chose use to purchase other assets to put into their treasury/warchest account.)

DeVCoin is hopefully on its way to being able to be valued in that way, but as of June 1st the computed value (based on those "Latest rates") of the "DVC" entity that is hoped to eventually be able to serve as the "treasury" or "warchest" we can use to compute the value of DeVCoins was only 10,265,100,372.63372243 DeVCoins, which is still only about half the actual number of DeVCoins that have been minted so far. So basically that warchest or treasury currently only contains enough assets to be able to buy back about half the DeVCoins in existence at the value per DeVCoin the Latest Rates file shows, meaning if the rate for DeVCoin was computed from that warchest or treasury the rate shown would be somewhere around half what is actually currently being shown.

In other words right now the Latest Rates for DeVCoin are, like those for LiTeCoin and several other coins that live on blockchains, based on attempted "price discovery" rather than upon some warchest or treasury which could be used to "buy back" all the coins thus far minted.

-MarkM-

The rates include-file can be generated using any of the assets as the basis, whichever one is used will be shown as price 1.00000000

In the usual case the prices are shown in DeVCoins, mainly because DeVCoins are usually one of the smallest coins thus showing the prices in terms of DeVCoins tends to give the finest granularity of price.

So the answer to your question is that is the price in DeVCoins.

An I0Coin costs 1439 point something DeVCoins.

The clue is the fact that the price of DeVCoin is shown as 1.00000000

You can re-arrange the table to use some other asset as 1.00000000 whereupon the prices become in terms of that asset.

So look which asset is 1.00000000 in order to deduce which asset the prices are being shown in terms of.

-MarkM-

Well here are the latest rates for various assets, priced in DeVCoins:

http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/latestrates.inc

So as you can see there are a bunch of things you can buy with them.

See also http://makemoney.knotwork.com/ especially the section for Stellar platform based assets, since in Stellar you can trade directly between any two things you don't have to use the platform's native currency as a go-between like you have to on the HORIZON platform.

So in Stellar you can directly offer to buy any asset on that platform using a DeVCoin token; and hopefully I did get around to making a page listing a stellar network based token for DeVCoins; I admit I think some tokens I have not gotten around to making a page about yet.

-MarkM-

Remember that I0Coin, IXCoin, DeVCoin, GRouPcoin and GeistGeld (XGG) , being merged-mined from way back when, have always been in use in the Galactic Milieu, along with TeneBriX and FairBriX the two original scrypt coins that pre-dated LiTeCoin; and the "Galactic Big Seven" currencies that were also implemented back in those days but eventually migrated totally to Open Transactions and now onward to the HORIZON and Stellar platforms. (That is, they stopped depending on proof of work, leaving GRouPcoin to be their test case to tell them whether proof of work was going to turn out to be practical or not.)

Thus they were traded in the Digitalis Open Transactions Server for years and nowadays, since Open Transactions never did get to the "ready for your grandmother to be able to use" stage of develpment, we have been migrating them to the HORIZON and STELLAR platforms.

I have been trying to list at http://makemoney.knotwork.com/ the assets thus far migrated to those two platforms, though I suspect there are still some assets that have been implemented on the platforms but that I have not yet gotten around to creating pages for on the Makemoney Knotwork site.

I also continue to update the tables of asset values periodically, see http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html and hey if you can figure out why the "plot" pages do not work and how to make them work that'd be great, they are done using "GNUplot" and worked fine when I generated them using Fedora but have never worked since I switched to using Ubuntu. Somehow GNUplot's generated webpages just show up blank for me (and many others apparently) since I started using the GNUplot that Ubuntu provides.

I usually market-make for I0Coin and IXCoin in units of 100 coins, every 5 satoshis of price on the buy side and every 10 satoshis of price on the sell side. Though at insanely low prices such as IXCoin is at now on the two exchanges where I still trade it I have been trying to go for every satoshi of price on the buy side.

So I guess if you want to buy some I0Coin I can sell you some starting with 100 at the price shown on the above-mentioned price list of Digitalis Open Transactions Server assets and going up 10 bitcoin-satoshis worth of price per each subsequent 100 coins. As the price rises I can probably do deals too; usually all the bitcoin that comes in from folks buying my sell-side offers goes right back onto the buy side.

-MarkM-

Hmm does anyone else remember when politicians were talking about taxing things like magick swords in online fantasy games?

The argument was that since someone managed to sell such a sword on E-bay, everyone who obtained such a sword in such a game should pay tax on it.

Which of course is insane since past performance is no proof of future performance so it was not even known whether anyone would ever manage to find a buyer for such a sword again, let alone at such a price.

Thus really it only makes any sense to measure how much fiat currency you pay to play online games (such as altcoin trading games as well as other games, whether or not the game itself includes various currencies of its own) and how much fiat currency you end up taking home at such time as you manage to sell some of your game "stuff" for fiat.

Until you actually get fiat back to a bank account or physical cash or something held by some kind of licensed or registered (and insured) "custodian" you really don't have a thing.

Even if you get cryptocoins home into a wallet of your own where you are the only person who has the keys you still don't really have a thing, since as we have seen over and over and over again you cannot know whether you will ever manage to sell any of it for any fiat.

It is all basically just virtual crap, game stuff, that might or might not ever have a buyer. Finding a buyer might even involve a lot of marketing on our part, or bribing a so called "exchange" to "list" the thing and then hoping the "exchange" isn't just going to run off with it all.

You could have billions of magick swords, but what is the chance you will be able to sell them all? And how much will the last few be worth once you have flooded such market as there might be with the first few billions of them? It is all just virtual crap until you receive something "real", which let's face it you might never do.

Sure it makes sense that the guy who sold one magick sword on E-bay pay tax on that income. If playing the game it was in was a business rather than a hobby to him he probably should also be declaring whatever he had to pay to play the game, probably including some portion of his internet connection fees, as business expense. But how many magick swords he ever had, how many dragons he had to kill to get it, and even whether he actually got it by trading a magick shield for it in the game, is crazy to even try to keep track of.

One by one maybe some ultra-special cryptocoins might end up being regarded as in some sense "real money", but even bitcoin might not be there yet and certainly the vast majority of coins will likely never get there. Digitised securities might get there much sooner to the extent that they truly represent something real, the way some so-called stablecoins claim to do.

But it makes no sense to count your purported "balances" in unregistered, uninsured so-called "exchanges" as in any way real until they actually get stuff back to you before running off with it or supposedly getting "hacked".

That is my position and so far the income tax folks seem to accept it even though I am way behind in paying income tax on the actual fiat that actually did manage to end up arriving at my bank.

I do not even know, and CANNOT know, how many cryptocoins I actually HAVE until various possible future things happen, such as Cryptsy reporting whether they have any of my coins still and whether they are ever going to send them to me, and Cryptopia similarly, and gosh I have lost count of how many other "exchanges" that "flew by night", and of course even if I had disks in safe-deposit boxes I have enough experience with disks, and "backups", to know that I cannot even be sure any of those disks are even readable, let alone are backups of uncorrupted data, until I try to recover the data on them and actually use it. Then as mentioned previously I do not know whether there will even be any market for that data even assuming it IS uncorrupted. So I literally do not know how many coins I even own, of what kinds.

All I really CAN know is how much I paid for computers, electricity to power them, rent for rooms to keep them in, internet connections for them, repair and maintenance of them, and how much cash and bank-deposits in fiat eventually resulted from my use of such things.

The U.S.A. seems a bit insane though. I wonder, if they knew Satoshi's heir(s) were in the U.S.A. would they be trying to tax them on the purported value of all the bitcoins that they, as his or her or their heirs, presumably "inherited", regardless of whether they ever actually manage to find and use the keys to those addresses and sell any of those coins for fiat?

-MarkM-

He seems to be a loony. Utterly weird utterly wrong "theories".

At least if you're still on about the same guy who rants about IXCoin secretly creating bitcoins and weird stuff like that?

-MarkM-

I do not seem to be able to make that work.

For starters trying to use the update externals script to get the externals does not work since this zip's contents do not seem to be a git repository (no .git file) so git refuses to work with it.

The first external it demands when I tried to run it was stratum, so I foind a different, multi-coin stratum-miner on github grabbed that used its update externals to get the externals and copied over the stratum external, but trying to "install" or "setup" that failed due to some kind of mismatch of a "distribute" thing that made it unable to create an "egg".

I tried both the instructions in the stratum external, both for developers and for install from a package, both bombed out unable to create an egg.

(I am using Ubuntu 16.04 LTS still on all my machines.)

Do you have any idea how many CPU cores it would take to be able to somewhat-reliably find a block within two hours? I think I have somewhere around 20 or so on it right now and clearly that is not enough.

-MarkM-

I think I am all out of video cards, my last one blew up, along with the motherboard it was on, back when I tried to use it to mine Darsek.

I can't really spare any more motherboards even if I were to find a secondhand GPU on Kijiji.

I guess I need to somehow figure out how many CPU cores it takes to make a block every two hours or less at minimum difficulty.

Or just hope someone who DOES have a GPU will mine it.

-MarkM-