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21  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Seriously, though, how would a libertarian society address global warming? on: December 19, 2011, 09:24:34 AM
Have a look at how the power is being sold back to the grid. Especially the pricing.
For some reason, the majority of governments seem to think they need to royally screw up electricity pricing and destroy the market for innovation in power delivery. All logic says that the more electricity I draw, the less I should pay per watt (because it costs less to provide the power to me), but my State government forces the pricing to go the other way to compel me to conserve even where conservation is counter-productive and inefficient.

It places other comically silly perverse incentives on me as well, I could go on for many paragraphs. By pushing prices artificially low for the majority of users, they actually disincentivize conservation. It is completely ass backwards. And when the weather is extreme, my prices actually go *down* (on the logic that I "need" more electricity), incentivizing me to shift my demand specifically to the times when it's the most expensive to service.

Do you still live under the delusion that what you pay and what cost the company have are somehow connected? Here a private company raised their prices because people were using their service, when according to you logic prices should go down. The only connection there is, is when their cost is higher than what they can charge.

What I find interesting about the German village discussed is that the Government have actually set a price that the power companies have to buy power back to. Without that law there would be no buyback and no incentives to produce power for small communities. The government is acting as an enabler here, promoting innovation and change.

Not what people would call libertarian I guess. Let's see a way a libertarian could address global warming, this one wasn't it.
22  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Seriously, though, how would a libertarian society address global warming? on: December 18, 2011, 01:04:24 AM

While I applaud the effort and the result, you are aware of the fact that this village is the result of heavy government subsidies, right?

While our government subsidizes things like solar panels a little bit (and we all know that such interventions are questionable as the market would probably find the equilibrium at the same price), my point is that it is doable, profitable, and efficient, so where there is no government, there will be inverstors.

And I also want to point out that it is that little village alone that took the initiative. I believe in a libertarian society residential communities will be comparable to those small villages of today.

Have a look at how the power is being sold back to the grid. Especially the pricing.
23  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Seriously, though, how would a libertarian society address global warming? on: December 17, 2011, 10:32:39 PM
@OP seriously, though, a libertarian society would address global warming like this:

http://inhabitat.com/german-village-produces-321-more-energy-than-it-needs/


While I applaud the effort and the result, you are aware of the fact that this village is the result of heavy government subsidies, right?
24  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Seriously, though, how would a libertarian society address global warming? on: December 16, 2011, 08:06:30 AM

Batteries are heavy, and include a huge 'sunk' energy cost in their production.  They also don't last very long relative to the steel block combustion engine.  They contain huge amounts of poisons that would contanimate any area that a major accident occurred.  They are relatively slow, and have very limited ranges and long 'refueling' times.  Even many 'green' leaning inventors have acknowleged the problems with electric transport, which is why the Revopower Wheel was invented.  Pity it never made it to mass production, I would have bought one straight away.  There is no substitute for the energy density of petrol.

Mostly matters of physics and economics, not matters of technology.  Electric vehicles will become commonplace as soon as the economics of peak oil force the issue, and then people get accustomed to the particular inconviences that electric transport presents.

Perhaps we could have, but again, there isn't a lot of further research to be done.  Again, we know how to build thorium cycle reactors, and we did it fourty years ago, but we just don't.  The infrastructure, as you noted, exists for the refinement and production of uranium fuel rods, because of the military's desire for plutonium.  We no longer need any more of that, and really need a lot less than we have, but the infrastructure exists.  So uranium fuel cycle reactors not only have a precedent, they have an economicly mature nationwide/worldwide supply chain.  An equivilent supply chain for thorium reactors would have to be built up from scratch, which can be done if we had the political will, but it seems that no one but India has any such will.

No contest there, but it's not really your's to decide.

True equal rights under the "law" (common law or natural law, like how the term was intended when the framers spoke the term.)  No special rights for historicly oppressed groups, no identity politics.  As a parent, I am responsible for the quality of their education and their health care, and no one else gets to intervene in my decisions. (excepting, perhaps, the child) 
Batteries can be recycled and reused and yes they are poisonous in case of an accident. So are ICE cars. Not really a world of difference, except that it's easier to reduce pollution from electric cars. Are electric cars slow? Compared to what? They are on par with regular cars. The range could be solved and I know of a few ideas currently undergoing testing on how to charge electric cars during operation, which would also help with refuelling times. That too is an engineering problem and can be solved fairly easy. I saw a TED talk about replaceable battery packs. Go look for it. It's interesting.
I too see issues with green tech, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying. I had something similar to Revopower when I was young. Small two-stroke engine attached to the hub of a normal bike. Worked like a charm.

There's plenty to be done with our current reactors. They can be much more efficient than today. And fusion is still 20 years off.

Why shouldn't I have a say in things that affect me?

That's not creating an equal playing field. That's maintaining the status quo where the privileged have access to better everything and underprivileged are still screwed. Children with parents who won't or can't provide for them will be at a disadvantage, and most will never catch up.
25  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Seriously, though, how would a libertarian society address global warming? on: December 16, 2011, 06:20:12 AM
There's an old truth saying that the longer you wait the more expensive and hard things will be to change.
Ironic, since the truth is the reverse.

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Wouldn't it have been great if we'd done that? Invested in electric cars, and nuclear? Then we would probably have an efficient electric car today, and knowledge about nuclear power unknown to us. Perhaps we would use thorium reactors? Perhaps something better?
But that's not what would have happened. We'd have built dozens more crappy reactors like the ones at Fukushima. And the resources devoted to electric cars wouldn't have gone to developing the more sophisticated computers and basic research that is making *good* electric cars possible.

The reason we can design such great nuclear reactors and electric cars today is not because of all the research into electric cars and nuclear reactors we've done. It's because we have (or at least *had*) a prosperous economy with good basic research, so we can do *everything* better.

When these things will really work, the profit motive will direct money into them. If you have to push to get money into them, it's strong evidence you're trying to do it wrong. You don't know if solar is right. You don't know if hydrogen is right. You don't know if thorium is right. Central planning will always tend to move resources to less productive uses because the information to make the right decisions simply does not exist without an open market.

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I'm in total agreement with you about the population thing though. But I have one more thought about that. How do we make sure that the potential Einsteins/Beethovens are able to reach their full potential? How do we equalize the chance everyone gets when starting out their lives?
We don't want to equalize the chances. If your children get an equal chance regardless of what you do, why bother to do much for them? If you want excellence, you have to try as hard as you can *NOT* to do anything that tends to even things out.

So if you design a new car, and you find a flaw in the design, would it be cheaper to fix it at the design stage, or after you've set up a production line, done all your tooling, trained your staff, ordered all components and started rolling out cars?

I agree with your assertion that a prosperous economy does a world of good for research, but basic research? Assuming we're talking about the same things here I'd say that's not something done by most companies. Companies does applied research, and they're damn good at it. Basic research is just a money sink to them and something most often done with taxpayers money. Solar is a good example.  Now they're beginning to become efficient and many companies are investing in researching it, because of the research done over the last 30 years or so, mainly funded by taxpayers. Does that mean that the research done over the last 30 years have been wasted? Or that they've provided a foundation that companies can build on?

When it comes to the children then. I thought the race was on to find the next Einstein/Beethoven, not to provide a comfortable life for your children. Perhaps one of the snotty children of that poor family over there have the potential, but don't get the chance to proper education because of their socio-economic status. While we all like to think that our children are geniuses, the likelihood of that being true is slim. So you need a broad search scope, meaning that you'd want to give the largest amount of people possible the chance to test their potential. Not just the ones lucky enough to have good parents.
26  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Only significant property owners should be allowed to vote. on: December 15, 2011, 08:43:22 PM
I have a better idea.

Let's have IQ tests, then only let people with IQ better than 120 vote.

Why should all the stupid people dominate politics and government?

After all intelligence among humans follows a gaussian distribution, why let the dummies vote and control the flow of society?

Wouldn't society be better run by the smart, not the wealthy?

I don't know enough about IQ tests to go along with this.

If you knew anything about IQ tests and their history you'd scream "hell no" and spank whoever suggested such a bad idea.
27  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Who creates the jobs? on: December 15, 2011, 03:31:41 PM
I did.

Yet another non-economist spewing out ignorant opinions on macroeconomics, based on nothing but his personal microeconomic experience and anecdotal evidence.

Then the author going, "oooh listen to that guy, what he is saying must be true, I mean he is RICH after all".

The arguments presented are so crude and simplistic that even Krugman could point out flaws in them.

In fairness, the article is right about one thing: The indiscriminate spending it advocates would create jobs of SOME sort.  But if the author had even a minimum of economic literacy he would know that indiscriminate job creation is not the POINT.  

The point, and the big challenge of economic policy,  is the creation of useful, productive jobs.

Speaking of crude and simplistic arguments, how do you like "Rich people invest, and investment creates jobs."?

What is a useful, productive job then? If the jobs created by catering to the needs and wants of the people who happen to have extra cash to spend, as the example in the article, isn't good enough, then what is?
28  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Who creates the jobs? on: December 15, 2011, 07:13:18 AM
Rich people invest, and investment creates jobs. Employees need to be worth the capital to be hired, but ultimately the investment creates the jobs ergo rich create jobs.
You couldn't be bothered to read the article could you?
29  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Seriously, though, how would a libertarian society address global warming? on: December 14, 2011, 04:01:41 PM
the electric car was invented before the internal combustion engine driven car.  The electric one lost due to real physical disadvantages and economic realities that persist to the present day.  So your assumptions are demonstratablely wrong.  We also know how to build thorium reactors, we just don't.

The SUV has a valid use case.  It's not significantly different than a minivan, nor are they less efficient; and they can be used as a small truck as well.

We can't.  The best we can do is to present a level playing field and hope that the law of averages will permit these talented types to rise to their potential.

What economic realities are you talking about? The fact that you don't have to pay for your pollution? And physical disadvantages? Like in real physical hurdles that can't be overcome? Or problems to be solved?
Yes, and why do we use uranium instead? To produce weapons. Sad but true. Thorium waste can't be refined to nuclear bombs so that line of research was killed. Depressing isn't it? Is that really the end of the line in nuclear research? Don't you think we could have gotten a bit further if we didn't focus most of our energy on burning oil?

Sure the SUV have valid uses. Is that how most of them are used? The idea of using 3 tonnes of steel to transport 70 kg of flesh is bloody stupid.

How do you present a level playing field? Education for everyone? Nutrition to help them develop their physical and mental strength? Who will pay for this?
30  Other / Politics & Society / Who creates the jobs? on: December 14, 2011, 02:03:48 PM
http://www.businessinsider.com/rich-people-do-not-create-jobs-2011-12

Apparently not rich people, according to the article.
31  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Seriously, though, how would a libertarian society address global warming? on: December 14, 2011, 09:21:25 AM
Yes, it really does matter. If it's a century off, we'll probably manage it all wrong if we try to manage it now. The longer we can wait to deal with the problem, the more prosperous we'll be when we deal with it and the better the technology we'll have to address it with. Also, the more science we'll know, so our chances of screwing it up will be lower. (Imagine if we invested tens of billions into electric cars and trillions into nuclear power in the 70s because we were told we only had 20 years of oil left.)

The difference between this simplistic silliness and reality is why this kind of reasoning is complete nonsense. It's not about driving SUVs, it's about growing global economies so that we have the resources and understanding to deal with big problems the best way possible.

Every reduction in human population is one less ticket in the lottery for the next Einstein or Beethoven. The stakes are as high as they can be.

There's an old truth saying that the longer you wait the more expensive and hard things will be to change.
Wouldn't it have been great if we'd done that? Invested in electric cars, and nuclear? Then we would probably have an efficient electric car today, and knowledge about nuclear power unknown to us. Perhaps we would use thorium reactors? Perhaps something better?

I'm all for growing economies. I'm against waste. Be frugal when possible and use resources where it does good. You can achieve the same thing with a different type of car as you can with a SUV. You're just wasting resources by building and driving that. Not that SUVs are the main problem, but they illustrate a point.

I'm in total agreement with you about the population thing though. But I have one more thought about that. How do we make sure that the potential Einsteins/Beethovens are able to reach their full potential? How do we equalize the chance everyone gets when starting out their lives?
32  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much? on: December 09, 2011, 04:21:12 PM
I think dictatorships/monarchies tend to be the most corrupt. How do people attempt to measure corruption? I am sure at least one sociologist has tried.

Here's one list of the least corrupt: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/least-corrupt-countries.html
And of the most: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/most-corrupt-countries.html

I haven't checked the sources or methodology, so take it for what it is.
FUCK YOU BITCHES! DENMARK IS ON TOP(where i live), of the least corrupt! and we are having a red government(socialists+social liberals+stuff, im not really into danish politics).

And a monarchy no less!

I used "tends"... so my ass is covered. It'd be interesting to group them based on government type and chart it. It looks like they used public and expert "perception".

I don't think the monarchy in Denmark is anything but a puppet show. I don't think they have any power, and I assumed that you were talking about monarchies where the king/queen actually has a saying in what happens in that country. I was just being cute.
33  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much? on: December 09, 2011, 04:01:40 PM
I think dictatorships/monarchies tend to be the most corrupt. How do people attempt to measure corruption? I am sure at least one sociologist has tried.

Here's one list of the least corrupt: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/least-corrupt-countries.html
And of the most: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/most-corrupt-countries.html

I haven't checked the sources or methodology, so take it for what it is.
FUCK YOU BITCHES! DENMARK IS ON TOP(where i live), of the least corrupt! and we are having a red government(socialists+social liberals+stuff, im not really into danish politics).

And a monarchy no less!
34  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much? on: December 09, 2011, 03:55:28 PM
I think dictatorships/monarchies tend to be the most corrupt. How do people attempt to measure corruption? I am sure at least one sociologist has tried.

Here's one list of the least corrupt: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/least-corrupt-countries.html
And of the most: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/most-corrupt-countries.html

I haven't checked the sources or methodology, so take it for what it is.
35  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much? on: December 09, 2011, 02:59:26 PM
Agreed, then the question is: which type of society lends itself to more corruption?

I don't know. Do you? Corruption seems to be abundant everywhere.
36  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much? on: December 09, 2011, 02:49:41 PM

And Germany is not socialist country, what are you people talking about?

If you look closely at the european countries you can see that the ones with the socialist governmants are already bankrupt: Greece, Spain, Portugal. The exception is Italy, where you have right wing government. On the other side you have right wing governments in countries like Germany and France, that are saving the PIIGS (mostly socialists).

Also take a look at eastern and western germany after WW2. They were the same country, the same people. Then they split it into west and east. The west becomes capitalist and the east becomes socialist country. After a few decades, the west is rich, and the east is having food shortages. Perfect example.

And another more recent one. Slovenia vs. Slovakia. Slovenia was years ahead of Slovakia, but they have had socialist government for 20 years now. Slovakia made some right-wing reforms, like uniform tax rate, privatization of government owned compaies. Today the difference between these two countries is very small, and I expect Slovakia to surpass Slovenia in the near future.

Agreed. Germany is a mix between socialism and capitalism. Something I think is a good thing.

What about Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Germany? While some of them have a right wing government, all are far to the left of the US. Yes, Greece, Spain and Portugal are bankrupt. Italy isn't far from it and will probably go the same way. It has little to to with ideology and much to do with corruption.

Socialism isn't the problem in Europe, and Capitalism isn't the problem in the US. Corruption, nepotism, etc are the real problems. Nothing is as bad to an economy as corruption.

37  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much? on: December 09, 2011, 07:44:44 AM
Ok...did you even read these? In essence, they all seem go against your narrative.

Also "socialistic nightmare with lazy citizens and zero innovation" is a straw man. Is that directed towards me?

Third, according to different sources income inequality and poverty rates (the fundamental bad stuff) have been on the rise in germany:
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/45/25/41525346.pdf

I have no idea how the stats get played with in Europe, so I can't tell what is true or not easily.

I am not against socialism. You should really just explain to me why you think it is working out so well for Germany and not other European countries rather than just linking me to what some journalista wrote up.

I read them. They say that Germany is doing quite well.

I don't recall who claimed that the socialism creates nothing but lazy people who don't innovate. Someone did. I brought up Germany as a socialistic country that's the opposite of what the poster claimed.

Yes, I'm sure inequality and poverty goes up right now. Germany has a right wing government if I'm not mistaken. They tend to want to lower taxes and remove benefits, which in turn will increase poverty and widen gaps.

My point is that people here tend to blame socialism for everything bad and praise capitalism for anything good. I don't think that's true, and I brought up Germany as an example of a socialistic country with high taxes and a big welfare state that goes against that. Nordic countries are the same.
I think you need to look elsewhere for the reasons, and not simply blame any one ideology.
38  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Seriously, though, how would a libertarian society address global warming? on: December 08, 2011, 11:46:34 PM
Magazines like Nature or New Scientist are fairly respected publications and neither of them are sceptical of climate change, even though the do publish cock-ups by scientists when they're found. Are you saying that they too have a political agenda, and goes against good science to push it?


Real scientists are always sceptics, but nor am I very sceptical that climate change exists.  The climate is always changing.  The part that is sceptical is the role of human activity in the matter.  Is humanity to blame for the catastrophy that has been known as the 'Medieval Warm Period'?  What about the 'Littile Ice Age'?  As a professional meterologist, certainly you studied these historic periods of relatively rapid changes in worldwide climate?  In either case, it took about a century to change at the inflection points.  We're beyond a century since the dawn of the Industrial Age (age of oil), and the most credible of negative 'worst case' models take another century to rise global temps to a point that the poles actually do melt.  The melting of said poles doesn't even necessarily imply a net negative impact upon humanity or life in general, since this also implies the associated expansion of agricultural land in the northern latitides, the increase in growing seasons in all lower latitudes and the productive increases that can be expected from increases in ambiant CO2 available to agricultural plantlife.  That's not even considering the vast energy savings in winter heating among the entire population beyond the 75th parrallel.  The official records concerning the MWP imply that we crossed the average global temps in 1990's, but last I checked wine vineyards are still not viable in Northern Britian like they were for 400 years during the MWP.  If anyone is growing wine grapes in Scotland without a glasshouse and we still have economicly viable fossil fuels left, I might have something to worry about, but I doubt it.  I've literally seen wealthy people buy lakefront property around the Great Lakes on the potential that global warming would make such areas more valuable for their grandchildren.  There are always things that real people can do to mitigate the risks of change.

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Rising sea level isn't the biggest threat in itself. I'm sure people will have time to get out of the way when the water is coming. Flooded farmland leading to food shortage, ecosystems out of balance and other things are more of a concern I think. That's not something I'd like to leave behind when I go.
Food shortages, as a result from climate change, isn't a credible threat.  Far more likely is the rapid expansion of agriculture for the above noted reasons.  Whoever tells you such things is trying to scare you, or are simply scared themselves.  As a trained meterologist, I think that you know this is so on some deep, rational level.  Food shortages in places where food is already difficult to grow, now that can get worse.  Fresh water sources could become a real issue with an expanding population and expanding agricultureal base, since is already is (but not as a consequence of climate change, but poor resource management with an expanding population).  This is, ironicly, one of the reasons that I choose to live in this city of Louisville, Kentucky.  I live 26 feet over the top of one of the largest replenishing known in the US.  I have both the legal, and pyisical, capability of driving a wellpoint in my own backyard if I choose to do so.
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I wasn't talking about you specifically. But I'm happy to hear that you're doing your part. So am I. Sadly I don't work close enough to ride my bike to work,

Define 'close enough'.  I live 8.5 miles form work.

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but I do commute with public transport, among other things that reduce my footprint. I'm still far above a sustainable level if you look at the web-tests you can do however.

ironicly, public transport isn't normally going to reduce your carbon footprint by any non-neglible degree in most US cities.  New York or LA, yes.  Cincinnati or Indianapolis, no.  The reason for this is because public transport must run whether or not you are using it, public transit's average ridership is too low to compete with a modern compact car.  Such public transit might make you feel good about it, but it exists as a transit subsidy for the poor; and no other reason is historicly or scientificly accurate.

Sadly I'm not a meteorologist. My fields of expertise are elsewhere. I just happened to work there and got basic training in meteorology. I probably know more about weather prediction than most people, but that's about it. That said, I know of these periods you speak, although not in great detail. And certainly not enough to draw any sort of conclusions from those periods.

There's a lot of farmland close to sea level and while I agree that new land probably will open up to agriculture. Lots of very good soil is in the lowlands. New land isn't sure to have the same properties and could produce lower yield per area. But we're going into a bit too much detail here.

I have about 100km one way. It would take me well over 5hours by bike. I travel by bus and it's about 80% full, so I think this makes a difference since most of my fellow travellers would drive their own car if the bus wasn't there. And I can work on the bus too, so it's a double benefit for me. An extra hour of work each trip.
39  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much? on: December 08, 2011, 09:59:49 PM
You can't have a mix of socialism and capitalism. You can either have autonomous freedom or a lack of it.

Yes. Black or white. No shades of grey exists.
In this case, yes. You can't have a mix of freedom and tyranny. You can provide the illusion of freedom though, if that meets your definition of grey.

Welcome to the real world where all you have is the illusion of freedom then.
The same would be true in your anarco-capitalistic society where you would have to subject to the tyranny and force of whatever master that happen to hold your current contract.

Anarcho-capitalism allots for alienable rights?

I have no idea what that means or what you're trying to say.
40  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much? on: December 08, 2011, 09:58:51 PM
Excessive taxation. Public monopolies over choice.

Last time I checked the government in Sweden were right wing, lowering taxes and disbanding monopolies to the best of their ability. But perhaps you know something I don't.
One example:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systembolaget

"The European Union is meanwhile ratcheting up the pressure on Sweden to open up its monopolies.

Sweden has already had to give up its import monopoly, enabling restaurants and companies to import alcohol through other suppliers than Systembolaget, and in May 2005, the European Court of Justice ruled that the pharmaceutical retail monopoly violated EU law."


The pharmaceutical retail monopoly has been disbanded since that was written.

I'm not saying that there aren't monopolies in Sweden. I'm questioning the direction that was outlined. "Looking forward to ... monopolies over choice" where the actual situation is quite the opposite.

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