Whoops, I spoke to soon. Your 50 BTC note is still 3 BTC over spot. If you can make a single 1 BTC note and profitably sell it at 1.30 BTC, then you should be able to make a single 50 BTC note and profitably sell it at 50.30 BTC.
I would imagine the pricing system looks something like this:
Purchasing 1 Note Purchasing 5 Notes Purchasing 20 Notes Purchasing 100 Notes Purchasing 1,000 Notes
1 BTC Note 1.30 BTC 6.25 BTC 24 BTC 115 BTC 1,100 BTC
5 BTC Note 5.30 BTC 26.25 BTC 104 BTC 515 BTC 5100 BTC
10 BTC Note 10.30 BTC 51.25 BTC 204 BTC 1015 BTC 10,100 BTC
20 BTC Note 20.30 BTC 101.25 BTC 404 BTC 2015 BTC 20,100 BTC
50 BTC Note 50.30 BTC 251.25 BTC 1004 BTC 5015 BTC 50,100 BTC
Make sense?
I brought the price down significantly for the 50 BTC bill, but I do still include a percentage in my markup. I consider it a handling fee for the risk of managing $250 worth of cash. You may think that is no big deal as a transaction is a transaction, but I get a little nervous when I have to handle that much for someone. If someone ordered a hundred 50BTC bills, I would probably need to take the day off from work just to make sure I was ultra careful with each one being loaded. If the markup is a big deal, just buy the open denomination bill, which is the cheapest one available. You can load it with whatever you like, and I don't have to handle your money for you. Also, note that I just added "a stack of 100 1BTC bills" to the shopping system. There is a nice discount there, and coincidentally it is priced about the same as what you expected in your chart. |
|
|
|
I hate to gum up the works, but there is one flaw. If I ever can see the full printed bill in circulation, and I was an evil person who actually was saving private keys, since the second one is in the clear, I would have both, and thus would be back in the beginning again (except with a new layer of trust in the bills).
How I could be evil, is buy these under a false name, have Mike ship them, and then somehow pass them off again to someone else to resell them or spend them.
Yep, it is far fetched, but I predict that in the next two years their will be a boatload of people printing all sorts of bitcoin bills, and this little run-around might become feasible.
Since Mike and I are the only game in town at the moment, and it would be absurd to go through all these steps where I could achieve the same ends without any steps, it should be just fine to use the clear second half of the private key. I would just recommend that when this becomes a common practice, both private keys need to be obscured.
That's possible yeah, but when I get some holograms that are cut as rectangles, then I can deal with that. For now people are going to have to just trust you're not doing that, the same way they probably already trust we're not doing it now. That's why I'm looking to get them to quote us on a continuous hologram pattern that works as both circles and big rectangles, so we can get both kinds out of the same hologram order. My one inch circles are really only good for obscuring a small dot with tiny print like I do on my coins, just no way I could see it covering a full QR code. Yeah, right now there is a lot based on trust, and I think that even with an un-obscured second key, it works extremely well, since it would take a massive effort on my part to undermine this system. Since this is paving the way for the future currency producers, I just wanted to show how it isn't 100% of a perfect system. Even as a two part obscured private key, it isn't 100%, as collusion is possible. Each person added to the scheme increases the trust factor by an exponent as the greater the number of people, the more difficult a conspiracy is (ignoring the possibility of sock-puppets). The downside: this will cost more in labor, shipping and materials. |
|
|
|
Mike, do not answer this yet. Let me edit it with the "crossing system" you proposed... Person 1:
Create a random private key (a)
From the random private key calculate the standard public key (A = a*G)
Print the private key (a) on the bill and cover it with a sticker
Send the bill, along with the corresponding public key (A), to person 2 Person 2:
Create a second private key (b)
From the random private key (b) and the public key created by person 1 (A) calculate the final public key (B = b*A)
[Note b*A = b*a*G which makes the final private key b*a]
Print the private key (b) on the bill - As you said this could be left in the clear if you want to
Calculate the public key address of public key B and print it on the bill
Fund the public key address with the correct number of BTC I hate to gum up the works, but there is one flaw. If I ever can see the full printed bill in circulation, and I was an evil person who actually was saving private keys, since the second one is in the clear, I would have both, and thus would be back in the beginning again (except with a new layer of trust in the bills). How I could be evil, is buy these under a false name, have Mike ship them, and then somehow pass them off again to someone else to resell them or spend them. Yep, it is far fetched, but I predict that in the next two years their will be a boatload of people printing all sorts of bitcoin bills, and this little run-around might become feasible. Since Mike and I are the only game in town at the moment, and it would be absurd to go through all these steps where I could achieve the same ends without any steps, it should be just fine to use the clear second half of the private key. I would just recommend that when this becomes a common practice, both private keys need to be obscured. |
|
|
|
I think you're making great progress on this and I am eagerly awaiting the day that I can feel confident in purchasing your Bitbills. There are several more things that need to happen for them to be a truly kick-ass Bitcoin-backed paper currency.
Right now your prices are prohibitive.
I see that you are charging less premium(percentage wise) on a 50 BTC note than a 1 BTC note. But that doesn't really make sense. I'm assuming that the cost of making the 50 BTC note is ~ the same as making a 1 BTC note. Therefore, when an individual purchases a single solitary note, whether it be a 50 or a 1, the premium(in nominal terms, not percentage of note value) should be the same.
The savings should come in when an individual purchases large quantities of the same note. This would be bulk pricing. And since people are much more likely to buy 1's in bulk than they are 50's in bulk, we can reasonably expect people to get better discounts on their 1's than on their 50's, which I think is the goal you were trying to achieve when pricing the notes in the first place.
You are right on. I adjusted my formula based upon your post, and the price of the higher denomination bills includes a much smaller markup than before. |
|
|
|
A radiator will be absolutely crucial. Otherwise you will just be making a large fryolator to fry french fries in.
"fryolator", beautifully said P4  Robokhr, you transfer the heat from the rig to the oil tank. Now what? The heat will build up unless you transfer it away. Wouldn't the surface area of the oil and tank quickly dissipate the heat? If you turn off a deep frier, its temperature drops pretty fast (if not insulated). |
|
|
|
Rob, we should do a deal where one of us manufactures the bill, sends it to the other, and we each add a private key.
Example: You and I both generate a large batch of keypairs. We exchange public keys and compute the bitcoin address of the resulting set. You make your bills and send them to me in completed sheets where I can feed them through an inkjet printer. I print a 2nd key and QR on them (doesn't even have to be covered up). I put a "zero BTC" hologram on it as my stamp of approval, and then I ship it out to whoever you tell me to. (I already have the holograms - I had like 4000 of them made that say "zero BTC", not sure in advance what I'd do with them, but this might be perfect)
That would work. Bill Example
--------------------------------
5 Bitcoins 5
Priv1 Pub1
Pub Combined
Priv2 Pub2
5 5BTC
---------------------------------
I can accompany the sheets with a text file of public addresses so you don't need to get them directly from the sheets. Do you have code (in any language) on github somewhere for merging the private keys? If I can also have some example outputs that I can test against, I can see if I can port it over to javascript and make a simple web app for users. |
|
|
|
|
Updates:
* Due to the rise in the value of bitcoins, bills are now cheaper
* Denominated bills are back up for sale
* Paper stock is now significantly heavier - 32 lbs, 100% cotton
* Hologram size is now 12% larger
* Denominated bills are sold pre-funded. You don't fund them yourself.
|
|
|
|
Why does that guy that submersed his computer in mineral oil still have the fans running?
<this was in reference to the video at the top of the DDG results> You need need to circulate the heat away from things. Instead of pushing air, they are pushing oil. Fans don't cool things (even in air) they move the heat that builds around your devices away. Oil will pull the heat out of your devices quicker. A good thing to note in the video is that this is perfectly silent. This is probably a blessing to many miners that have a continual din in the background. It doesn't look like the radiator is needed, but just helps a little more. Keep in mind, your room that you have this in will still be exactly as hot as before. This just makes the local area around the chips drop to the ambient temperature in the room faster. (Rules of thermodynamics still apply). Interestingly, this probably would make running a rig outside a better option. Put an inch of space below your hardware in the tank for any possible accumulated water, put a lid on it, and it should be able to weather the outside world better than a machine not suspended in an oil bath. (But please, keep it out of direct sun.) |
|
|
|
I was wondering if it would be possible to submerge a mining rig in pure water to keep it cool.
I would think you would have to disable all fans which would save some energy as well.
Anyone have any experience with this?
Heat transfer between metal and air is not as fast as metal and liquid, so you are on the right track. You just need to use something other than water which is corrosive and conductive (unless distilled). Water is not good to have in your computer. Try this: http://duckduckgo.com/?q=oil+cooled+pc |
|
|
|
Welcome to a deflationary economy!!!  This. It's why I support creating a deflation-neutral, bubble-resistant alternative coin. I don't see how you can do that without making it centrally controlled and acting like the fed (printing more or less based upon an inflation target of 0%). |
|
|
|
BTW, note that you can't really edit comments after a few minutes. You can post a new one.
Yep, just realized that. You can delete them, and post a new one, which is just as good. |
|
|
|
|
Here is a crazy way to get something implemented in some super closed company when you submit a feature request.
Submit the request, and state in it:
"I set up this bitcoin address:
asjfljwlejrlew
with this private key
ajsfljweiruwour
If this ever gets implemented by anyone in your company in the next 6 months I will send 10 BTC to that address."
This will appear in their bug tracking system, and someone will nudge it to get done, just to yank the coins out the second they appear.
|
|
|
|
Wow, that's a really great idea. I like how it doesn't require any extra software and basically creates a real bounty system.
I am thinking this could be used anywhere. Even in internal ticket systems, or issues on a github repository. The important thing is that it is judged by the person who does the paying. No fancy voting system needed. I was thinking of building a bounty system for all sorts of things where people all put money into an address and when someone does something to achieve that bounty it gets paid out. The verification part just seemed like it would get too complicated and too subject to gaming/hacking. An adhoc system can just be layered on top of all current systems, and human judgement is the protection against hackers. |
|
|
|
|
I get the feeling that people spend less bitcoins when they see the price going up. This is an unfortunate side effect where all bitcoin holders become speculators and are just waiting for the market to tops off and buy things (or convert back to cash).
So the more it is going up in value, the less actual economic activity it is used in.
I am looking forward to it leveling back off again. The ups and downs are bad for bitcoin.
|
|
|
|
|
Stackoverflow uses earned points as bounties you can set for questions that have not been answered in 2 days.
Recently I have started posting bitcoin bounties on by questions to see if they get answered faster. I don't put it in the main question (I feel that would interfere with the flow), but I put it in the comment. Here is what I wrote:
"0.25 bitcoins to whoever can gets me the best usable answer in the next 2 days. Just put your address in the comment to your answer."
Comments are nice because you can edit them/remove them after the fact. I plan on changing it to say:
"(edited) 0.25 bitcoin reward paid out to JohnSmith for his excellent answer."
|
|
|
|
|
Actually, it may be better to skip the whole bank aspect.
I send bitcoins to a check printer for them to send out a check to someone who has billed me. No need for a bank.
|
|
|
|
|
Bill Pay!
How easy would it be for a Bitcoin bank to cut a check out to your electric company, cable company, etc?
In essence it would layer on top of an exchange, and when a check needs to be sent out, it converts bitcoins to dollars, and sends a check.
You would never need to touch dollars, and you can set up automated payments out to whoever you had to pay.
|
|
|
|
If you would like to make a private bid you may contact me via private message.
You should remove this, auctions should be public, otherwise a seller can claim that they've received a higher bid via pm if they don't like the ending price. I guess you are right. Please consider that section removed as I can't edit it at this point. |
|
|
|
Nice, where is that from? |
|
|
|
Maybe we will see some pirates demanding bitcoins for ransom in the future?  It is funny, but when I first learned about bitcoins and saw its potential, I thought, yeah, it is going to be the way ransoms are demanded in the future. The problem with ransoms are you either need to be incredibly smart with inter-bank systems so that you can effectively receive money that you know can't be taken back, or you have to physically receive a satchel full of actual cash or gold (a very dangerous part of the whole process). Now you can deposit your captured person in a location, get your bitcoins sent to you, and then give over the info as to where the person is (the last part is optional). Add in the coming escrow option, and this gets even more clear for both parties in the exchange. This works well also for drug trade and a bunch of other illegal operations where working with banking systems are not a viable option. So far, I think criminals are slowly drifting into bitcoin. The small scale drug dealers are the first (with the silk road). I can tell it is not major yet though, as the price of bitcoins will skyrocket once it becomes the standard of criminal currency. With the potential of only 9 Million currently available to go around, and a price of $5 each, that doesn't leave much to go around for major criminal transactions. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
