I contacted via site 12th of Dec for VAT deduction but never got reply  |
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Is a 1900$ invoice supplied for customs? Here customs always ask for invoice / transaction receipt, they don't believe anything on the box or inside the box |
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I saw that, but a simple comparison was not sufficient answer. BFL -> they just shipped my last order of the first gen asic, and now hoping they will actually deliver somewhat in schedule the next gen. Cointerra looks interesting, not sure if i should bite despite very large unit. Hashfast too but it's at the BFL price range with the current discount being offered. Huge leap in hashing power up coming again, and no one is catering on the sub 500$ level. I'm one of those who prefer to spread out investment in multiple venues. Invested in ASICMINER, BFL, BTCFPGA on the first gen, BTCFPGA went bust (still no refund), BFL delivered way late, but ASICMINER paid off big time for me  so in average a good investment. Bitfury is out if they are "temperamental", i want something which is easy to maintain and works effortlessly once setup. |
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"A lot" is not a particularly useful value for forming concrete predictions and plans.
And BFL has always delivered for you? That's a very... strange thing to say, and even stranger to bring up in this context. I've had nothing but problems with them myself, an experience that seems to be echoed on most of the forums here, but I'm not quite sure why it's relevant to the topic either.
Because of mentions above about BFL, in context to my earlier reply. |
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predicting btc value and difficulty for 3+ months is easy: Both are going up. A lot.
BFL has always delivered for me, and i'm happy with the gear i have received.
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Been out of the forums for a few months, busy with other business. I see several new comers to the ASIC field, and could some people please summarize how they look, how legit they look etc.? AntMiner -> This thread i have gone fully through, slightly skeptic but looks more legitimate than some, at least some pics of chips, boards etc. but there was HUGE heatsinks (or what looked like) at the backside of the boards no one explained etc. and the similarities to one of the pre-existing chips is curios one, while they claim to achieve so much more. BlackArrow -> Very good sounding offers etc. but highly skeptic of their lowest $/Gh and J/Gh claims - and apparently they have absolutely no history of products and nothing tangible in hand to show? Do they have a workshop, has someone visited them etc.? HashFast -> Don't really know much about this one. Cointerra -> Went bust, right? KnC -> They are shipping but big QA issues right, but still in the end delivering more than promised? They come and go out of stock constantly? They are in sweden - anyone know if they allow payment during pickup? For me it's quite quick to get to Sweden since i live in Finland Did their original announced timeline hold? So many entrants on this very expensive field to get started up - somehow i think many of these are outright scams. I'm looking to offset risk by putting in orders for multiple places. No one seems to have anything in hand - except a few very expensive options @ eBay? |
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This doesn't really make a lot of sense. Either there is a return or there isn't. Profit is black and white.
And waiting for BFL? Really? Really???
Profit in what time frame? 1month, 2months? You think 3month ROI is bad? |
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Yeah pricing will be interesting to know. One thing they should add is a dip switch for lowering the voltage for underclocking -> this will make them viable for longer, when it approaches electricity cost, just flip a switch and double your profit margin. Assuming maintenance & upkeep is easy and simple, plus realestate are not issues for you. If this is sensibly priced, fast shipping and proven to be real, i for one will be making continuous purchases monthly. But that's only if things hold up, some details are a bit sketchy, but within the realm of possibility. As for sensible pricing? It's hard to say before seeing the final packaging, final power consumption, and doesn't make sense to do speculation maths right now. For me packaging and ease of maintenance are very important aspects (hence big investment in BFL). I'm a business man with more important things to do than watch my miners 24/7 Thing is, if these are priced low enough to be very attractive -> stock will run out, if these are priced higher -> will there be a breakeven within a year? Priced at around 4$/GH -> I will immediately take a few and accept near month delivery time. After first batch arrives i would double it. Priced at around 6$/GH -> I might get a few. Priced at around 8$/GH -> Only if delivery is within 15 business days and only a few, otherwise it makes more sense for me to wait for BFL Monarchs (Packaging) These are my personal opinions, and what i think makes sense for me. |
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water always wins air hands down in terms of cooling efficiency and capacity. That's why engines are water and not air cooled (except for some low output exceptions, lawn mowers, mopeds, old VWs etc.)
[...]
 Yes, and that engine is one of those rather low output ones. Yes it is, huge displacement but very low specific output, especially at altitude at thin air. and as you can see from the image it's still huge effort to cool it, look at all those fins! I want to see you try cooling an small displacement inline-4 engine which outputs 2megawatts as waste heat with just air. Yes, megawatts. and no, that engine does not melt. Infact, runs very smooth and without serious heat issues. |
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water always wins air hands down in terms of cooling efficiency and capacity. That's why engines are water and not air cooled (except for some low output exceptions, lawn mowers, mopeds, old VWs etc.)
Infact, air is more like an insulator, you can infact use air as an insulator and has been used for ever since human learned to make clothing, and all animals with hair prior to that.
If you live in a cold climate your winter clothes are likely designed to hold in tiny pockets of air which works as insulator.
YES, air's heat conductivity and capacity is that tiny.
Why does it work for cooling them? Abundance.
As long as you circulate it and efficiently, it works quite well for cooling small loads, like CPUs etc.
Water is not cost effective solution for small loads due to the extra work needed, and little capacity required. Thus A/C + air works quite well.
But as soon as you venture into the kilowatt range in high density OR simply BIG setups, water suddenly becomes the best choice by far.
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very interesting and hoping to see guide soon, hopefully with ebay purchase links |
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For auction: BFL Little Single 30Ghash/s preorder Order date 13th of July, order #3218 If i'm unable to change the shipping address, i will reship it to you at my own expense. Minimum bid: 30BTC, 1BTC increments Auction End: 1st July, 15:00 GMT+3 Reserve: 150BTC Escrow: Prefer none, but will accept JohnK or Graet, buyer pays the fees / gives a donation to the escrow Shipping: within 3 business days of receiving it and clearing from customs here in Finland, will utilize DHL Express. Buyer assumes all risks for customs delays, manufacturer defects and such. OPTION: We may host it for you in our DC, includes a atom host machine with 100mbps uplink and remote reboot capabilities. Price 35€ a month + 0.20€/kWh, includes cooling If reserve is not met, i will decide if i will accept the highest bid or not. If reserve is met the auction ends and will try to change the shipping details immediately after payment and send you the invoice as PDF.  |
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Let's see how this goes.
If it's real and sensible timeline i'd sure be interested in a few (dozen)
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I'd probably bite if i'd trust this guy, but i don't. It's just few hundred km for me to visit petersburg so it would have been a cool road trip to take |
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Clearly, Dogie is biased against BFL.
BFL has started delivering which is very evident, all the major costs have now been covered.
The biggest costs has always been with the ASICs the initial design and prefab (masking and what not), once these are done the individual chip cost is extremely low.
Somehow i bet their per chip cost is in the 5$ ballpark now.
Add rest of the HW -> casing, pcb, caps, regs, resistors etc etc. bought in bulk you have something like this cost breakdown:
case 5$
fan 1$
pcb 2$
connectors 5$
on board components: 10$
Total: 23$
Assembly + testing: 20$ per unit.
43$ + chips = 53$ per jalapeno unit. So realisticially 50 to 100$ to mfg single unit.
Since this is an exponential growth business limited by bitcoin valuation, which exponentially raises as mining costs raise, and they are now delivering they are starting to rake in more and more orders each and every day.
Why exponential growth?
Let's assume 5G unit has a steady ROI of 6months after costs (right now more like 1week, in couple of months 3months, in a year probably 11months), and bitcoin price does not fluctuate.
Customer buys 1 unit, 6months later he buys another with the mining revenue, 6months after he buys 2 units, 6months after 4 units and so forth.
Since ROI is more like 1 week now, it goes more like this:
1 week purchase 2nd unit
2nd week purchase 2 more units
4th week purchase 3 more units (ROI is getting longer), now 7 units
6th week purchase 5 more units, total 12
8th week purchase 9 more units, total 21
10th +15 = 36
12th +20 = 56
14th +20 = 86
and so forth.
Now as we start reaching point where ROI takes 11 months, miners suddenly stop purchasing and hoarding, which leads to prices raising as more miners are hoarding, if some major event happens then with several month lead time BTC price will hike and all the miners suddenly sell their BTC and purchase a lot of new equipment, just like what happened lately.
Therefore, as long as BFL is shipping they are getting ever increasing revenue.
The true winner again is the one selling shovels, not digging the gold.
All of this lets me conclude that Dogie has a vested interest in Avalon, Bitfury, KNC or ASICMINER. Probably ASICMINER, and he is trying to guard his investment by spreading FUD and trying to get people to run at BFL at the very last possible moment.
You forget just one thing, BFL likely has in their war chest few thousand BTCs alone, which easily pays the current salaries for some months and the components for next several wafers completion and as per T&C refunds are not guaranteed, even if suddenly 15% asked refund today, they'd probably honor 5% and then stop and keep on shipping.
Nice try troll, but no luck. I think i'll go buy another few 50G units now, ty very much.
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Why the fuck am I supposed to pay "German VAT"?
Should I not pay that at CUSTOMS when IMPORTING that sucker?
Or... isn't the EU a VAT-free zone anymore?
EU *is* the freakin' VAT zone lol Unless you are purchasing as a company from other EU country, or reside outside the EU, or in one of the VAT exempt areas you have to pay VAT. If you import from outside EU, then you pay VAT at customs. Movement of goods within the EU is free, so no additional imports tax, just VAT. |
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