Hi
go to /bamt/status/active and delete files to enble GPU overclocking.
It work for my!
thanks, but there is no /bamt dir ... Now this happened to other GPU, no crash involved or anything, all of sudden just overclocks are gone! noticed because hashing rate dropped a bit on the cluster ... |
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My best offering I think would be my power costs. Currently at $0.00 KW/h.
I have a very nice lease agreement to be sure. 4 years remaining too :-D
Hahaha, that's a sweet deal!  Just don't tell me now that floor space is something like 20€/m2 XD |
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whats the reasoning you guys are using to buy these instead of ICARUS fpga's.
just curious.
Rig box should get 20Mh/w and was priced (when I bought them) at $25k each. That's $0.50/Mh which is pretty darn good unless you are really bargain hunting for GPUs and the other items needed to run them. When the subsidy halves, we will see a lot of GPU miner become unprofitable with 2Mh/w to 5Mh/w unless the price rises substantially. I doubt the price will jump like this in lock step with the halving (I've been wrong before) so we should see the same thing we saw when the price went to $2. Miners will quit. I'm targeting long term goals, so even if price goes down now to 1$ i will keep my miners operational. I see all of this as a risk investment and my goals are set on not what BTC is today, but what it is 1,3,5,10years from now. If best case scenario happens in 10-15years i can retire off my mining earnings from the 2$ days or whatever the low point is going to be. Hence i mostly invest outside money to my rigs. Right now i'm on 2nd investment period and i've yet to sell single BTC (quite the contrary). My initial miners were bought with 10€ BTC investment from year earlier, which was worth at peak something like 7500€ .... Looking back now i should've sold 90% of my BTC back then XD It makes no sense to mine for BTC when you're doing it at a loss. If you mine 25 BTC for $250 of electricity, but the price per BTC was $5 and you could have bought 50 BTC for $250, then you just lost 25 BTC. ONLY if you care about today's value - Like i explained, i'm working on assumptions/projections of value after a period of time, not what it is worth today. EDIT: Actually, at least for me, 7970 is by far the best value. I can get new 7970s for same price as 5970s right now, without the hassle of needing to search and scout, and get out of warranty used cards. No thanks. And i can get them TODAY, means 1½-2months of revenue before BFL Singles would arrive. |
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Where in the Rockies? I'm out in Boulder myself. The biggest thing I'd be interest in is a place to co-lo my growing HD 5970s farm.. I'm a lowly apartment dweller and don't have the ability to feed any more juice to my farm. However, I might also be interested in a share of a crowdsourced FPGA farm.
Take a look at, which might help you scale more: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68634.0and give feedback! Actually it's somewhat same as on this thread but oversimplified and turn into a traditional hosting service. (Sorry, not meaning to thread hijack, just saw my idea could be helpful!) |
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whats the reasoning you guys are using to buy these instead of ICARUS fpga's.
just curious.
Rig box should get 20Mh/w and was priced (when I bought them) at $25k each. That's $0.50/Mh which is pretty darn good unless you are really bargain hunting for GPUs and the other items needed to run them. When the subsidy halves, we will see a lot of GPU miner become unprofitable with 2Mh/w to 5Mh/w unless the price rises substantially. I doubt the price will jump like this in lock step with the halving (I've been wrong before) so we should see the same thing we saw when the price went to $2. Miners will quit. I'm targeting long term goals, so even if price goes down now to 1$ i will keep my miners operational. I see all of this as a risk investment and my goals are set on not what BTC is today, but what it is 1,3,5,10years from now. If best case scenario happens in 10-15years i can retire off my mining earnings from the 2$ days or whatever the low point is going to be. Hence i mostly invest outside money to my rigs. Right now i'm on 2nd investment period and i've yet to sell single BTC (quite the contrary). My initial miners were bought with 10€ BTC investment from year earlier, which was worth at peak something like 7500€ .... Looking back now i should've sold 90% of my BTC back then XD |
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My ex-fiance at first tried to some blame game on expenditure, i simply told her "Well, you are a student, living on a shoestring budget, and i bring the food on the table, and now that we are living together you have nothing to worry about living expenses, so stfu and concentrate on your studies!" and that was that, she didn't even say a single word couple years later when my business ran into trouble and i was making like 100€ a month max for quite a while ... That did tho probably contribute to the break up, but we never had even an argument about money after the first time. I would never let girlfriend/wife interfere with my business investments, if i see something is going to bring X % ROI annually, all she'd need to know is that it's going to bring the bacon on table. I'm still investing in GPUs for the moment, maybe i'll get a single or 4 next month or whenever shipping times get lower. Just got my electricity rate lowered significantly and still got few tens of kW available to be utilized Now that original hardware has paid off 150% it's time to invest again  |
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i'll bite, bought a few tickets |
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There is no reports of this happening with BFL (or any other Bitcoin related company). It is almost unheard of for US company to collect VAT. There is no legislation that can compel them to collect VAT so likely any company collecting it is simply stealing/scam.
Exactly my point |
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Updated the pricing, lots of Q&A etc. on the 2nd posting.
Feedback is appreciated.
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I think i just bid for it XD starting price was around ~50$
hoping reapplying thermal paste will solve it.
Is your prospective vendor an l_mayhew2009 (or somesuch)? If so, that's the one. If you win it at a bargain basement price, and manage to get it working for a few bucks more, let me know so I can kill you and everyone you've ever loved with my thought rays congratulate you on your resourcefulness and enquire politely how you fixed it. ROFLMAO! Good one! Nope, another vendor. |
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What kind of features you would hope to see from an operation like this?
I have few ideas to lower the pricing to a nicely low fees, yet make it profitable, by driving in some efficiencies of scale.
Payment methods would be Paypal € or BTC.
Also one thing to consider is providing other GPGPU or hashing applications. FPGAs probably cannot operate for anything else than Bitcoin, but GPUs could.
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I think it's a problem when this happens :
BFL (add VAT to the price) -> customs (add EU VAT to the price) -> customer (WTF!? 2 times VAT?!)
It is possible to get a refund done for some part of the VAT, but I have no idea how exactly it must be done. Some stupid paperwork.
It's illegal for BFL to collect VAT, but it's not unheard of that US company is collecting VAT to pad their profit margins, as going to court for that is quite rare. Linden Lab/Second Life does that .... California registered company collecting VAT .... Yeaaaaahhhhh riiiiiggghhhhttt..... (No wonder they went from the miracle service to the way of MySpace...) BFL asks for insane shipping extra for international orders tho, that one is a joke, and i would have already ordered units if it were not so, but a sane shipping. When companies transfer too much of their profit margin to the shipping&handling that always puts me off from buying, no matter what. |
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Just so's you can all sleep easily at night again, I did indeed return the card to the ebayer, and he refunded me toot sweet. Amusingly I now see he's reselling it on ebay! Though to be fair, he has made it clear that it's faulty ('for parts or not working' as the lingo goes there).
Thanks to everyone who prevented me from following my natural instinct to take it apart, get way out of my depth and spend far too much time and effort getting nowhere.
I think i just bid for it XD starting price was around ~50$ hoping reapplying thermal paste will solve it. |
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That provider puts money where it matters and not making things fancy, or excessively fine tuned.
Not sure how they handle fire suppression tho.
My point is that there is a balance on things.
I plan to utilize at max 20kW or so at this location, before choosing another one.
That is around 80Ghash/s.
Yes, not a tiny cluster, but not extremely large neither.
The whole point is to make things as economical as possible, not as fancy as possible.
You can have fancy right now, just build your rig into 4U case and take it to a DC, anyone can do it right now. However that does cost 100-200€ per rig a month. If i recall right it's 1100€ a month for rack with 16A @ Evoswitch (NL). Whoops, your operational costs just rose exponentially for: UPS, Fire suppression, 24/7 present staff (150€ per hour remote hands), AC etc etc etc.
Yet you don't get monitoring with it, but you have to monitor it yourself and make requests to DC remote hands, billed in 15min increments. So you need to hire a local guy to do that for you, here in Finland that is 2k €+ a mo for minimum wage guy, but you don't want minimum wage guy doing THAT JOB, riiiiight?
Are you getting where i'm going with this?
There will be a point where all of what you mention WILL be economical, but that day is not Before Launch.
Why most people don't host their hardware in a DC? Because of the cost of all those supplements. For almost every miner out there, it makes absolutely no sense. For some it does, for most it does.
Only reason you are not demanding these from mining contract is perception. Same risks exist for anyone who is having any sizeable mining operation.
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You can shut off remotely, but can you respond fast enough so the equipment doesn't get wet while the power is still on? Keep in mind you need to cut off all power, because even if the rigs are "off", the power supply is still providing standby power to the motherboard. Or are you going to have it set up so all power is cut automatically in an event of a fire?
It's not just reacting to fire, you need to be close so you can monitor the site 24/7. It's a datacenter with over 50k worth of electronics, so burglary/vandalism is definitely an issue. A warehouse with tons of ventilation, spewing out hot exhaust is sure going to attract some attention.
Just because you live 30 minute away, doesn't mean you can deal with an emergency. Are you willing to leave work if a problem shows up? How about 3am in the morning, or right when you're eating dinner? Mining rigs are very risky investments, and bitcoin prices are very unstable, so it's all about getting the fastest ROI as possible. If it will take you 12 hours to respond to an event, your customers are not going to be happy.
A much better idea would be to sell mining contracts.
1) Complete power cut off, ie. PDUs. Can be automatic with temperature sensors -> detect over 50C in any of the measure points -> something is seriously wrong. 2) Like i said, 24/7 video surveillance, tight lockdown. A non-issue. 3) 30mins is my normal from door to door travel time, i can make it in 20minutes in emergency. or less. I'm a entrepreneur -> this WOULD BE my job, at least part of it. I can leave and come whenever i want, no problem at all. My responsibilities are 100% to customers. 3AM, 10AM, 5PM, whatever, nothing new. If sprinklers go off fire alarm is set off automatically, which goes remotely to fire station. Actually, i'm quite curious how ridiculously tight requirements you are asking for bitcoin mining rigs, these are not mission critical financial servers, these are mining rigs. No one is going to die if they are down for a while, no one is going to go bankrupt, no one is going to have relatively high losses vs. time of downtime, no one is going to take PR damage (except me) for any downtime. All of that asked can be provided, but price will then correlate:
That would be 7500€ per 7970 per year, thank you.
That will give you a fully HA setup, in 24/7 in location presence, with proper fire management, offsite backups, security guards on post 24/7. Minimum order is 50 units, minimum contract 3years.
Ask for enterprise level features -> get enterprise pricing.Or is it sufficient for a bitcoin mining rig to have an annual 99.9% uptime (less than 9hrs downtime annually), where security for the budget far exceeds the expected norm, and any and all issues are replied & acted upon within the day, critical emergencies within an hour or two, at a sane cost. 99.9% of the dedicated server market does not offer what you are asking for. Some providers run their DCs completely lights-out with hours to travel to location if need be. They still offer you 99.9% SLA, and many people use their services for something which would cost them with 1hr downtime more than annual revenue of 1Ghash/s of mining rigs. Hell, i've seen (and used) DCs where ambient temp is 50C, with no fire suppression available, and anyone with knowledge it is there and intent could get into. Actually because one of the technicians forgot his keys, with 20minute effort we got through the door without any kind of keys. I admit, that place sucked MAJORLY. BTW, worlds most successful server provider uses the quality level of DCs 90%+ "enterprise hosting" folks would laugh at. Yet their uptime levels at the very least is on par, usually exceeding this "enterprise" offers (disclosure: I have hundreds of servers there, which take less time to manage than just 10 servers at Leaseweb...) oh and this warehouse, i already got there stuff worth tens of thousands of euros, if the place would be robbed or would burn down i would stand A LOT to loose. |
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Once upon a time, there were six 5970s calling this little house home, their poor master couldn't afford a server room; (not) surprisingly, they all survived a N40 0 hot summer, including a few 100+ days. Actually they are still living there, all live and well.  Epic! ^_^ |
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Yeah not sure where people get the idea that a distributor makes the VAT go away.
AFAIK (and granted euro tax law wasn't may major in college)
BFL -> Customer (pay VAT)
BFL -> Distributor (no VAT) .... Distributor -> Customer (pay VAT)
right?
Yeah, you are correct. And any system designed to bypass customs (incl. VAT) is tax fraud btw. I sure am very concerned about that I also declare all my BTC profits to the taxman because the big corporations pay all their taxes to the day, setting a model for everybody else. Would you pay $850 for a device that is meant to cost $600 ? ATM the BFL is a no go for the EU / UK unless you go the "dodgy" route ( don't even know what this means ) but a legalised way ( it is not like they are the only ones abusing the tax system and finding loopholes in it; here in the UK there actually are lawyers getting paid to do this by the rich who should be taxed 50% usually ) is what we need if BFL wants to have some EU sales. Hahha yeah, bigger the corporation, more blatant and direct tax evasion they do  Indeed, i wouldn't pay that neither, but it's the sad reality for individuals. As a company i will get the VAT back couple months later. Also, the VAT is quite trivial to circumvent when ordering abroad if you know how, there is still a risk of "getting caught", but the cost of that is having to pay the VAT, nothing else. Infact, that happens all the time, even without trying, packages just don't end up in customs even if worth is in the thousands, at times. Depends greatly on shipping method too. |
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Yeah not sure where people get the idea that a distributor makes the VAT go away.
AFAIK (and granted euro tax law wasn't may major in college)
BFL -> Customer (pay VAT)
BFL -> Distributor (no VAT) .... Distributor -> Customer (pay VAT)
right?
Yeah, you are correct. And any system designed to bypass customs (incl. VAT) is tax fraud btw. |
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Bad luck of the (electrical) draw. If you had everything the same and operated in Wyoming with <6 cent electrical rates I might ship all my equipment to you and rent a cage. Wow that is one mighty low electrical rate! So your 1st year cost for 7970 with assumed 150W with overheads and GPU cost of 530$ is about: 608$! 467€ ... Wow. That is amazing! My electricity cost alone is 170€ / 221$. And they say Finland is the promised country of Cloud .... In your case you would however benefit from less hassle, but that's it. A correction my electrical rate isn't 6 cents. I was just saying I would colocate my mining hardware to your location if you could offer 6 cent electrical rates (plus some rent for cage space). I would actually consider setting up something like this if it wasn't for the shipping costs, handling costs, maintenance needed etc. Definitely need to have a dedicated person there 24/7 in case something goes wrong with so many miners and HW at your disposal etc. Do you have this OP ? Not sure of your question. Do you mean a person available to goto the location 24/7? Well the 2nd location is just 22km from where i live - So yes Takes 30mins for me to drive there, and i do hang around there for other reasons once or twice a week when i can. It functions as our warehouse, plus i assemble stuff there etc. No matter what, i will be placing my own rigs there. Only thing scares me is the temperatures in end of July, early August. Average summer temperature is just ~18C for past few years (VERY HOT relatively), 1971-2000 average summer temp 15.9C, 30km south of the location. That is exactly what I meant. If I was doing this sort of thing I would make sure to be there physically myself or leave someone there at all times to watch over the rigs. Even 30 minutes is a long time. A fire can start at any time and the sprinklers would destroy all the hardware I think. Maybe insurance could help. Anyway feel free to carry on. I was just suggesting a feature you might consider adding for your customers. I certainly would not put my rigs anywhere without constant supervision by a person that lives at most 5 minutes away etc. servers don't need that kind of observation - properly configured these do neither. a 5k server room might go by months no one even visiting there! If fire happens, i will most likely be able to shut down all nodes remotely, so when the sprinklers go off the hardware would be spared, just need to dry and test everything. Just in case i can't be there when the fire is starting up. Seriously tho, computer hardware does not tend to catch up on fire spontaneously and if this grows sufficiently, it's not that big of an investment relatively to setup electronics safe fire system (can't remember the name of the gas used). If you got 40k € (ie. 100x7970) operating, 4k-8k € on a small fire supression system is not that bad of an investment anymore (10-20%) compared to a small 10x7970 operation. |
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