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Response to your edit:
Edit: Earlier you said we should stop talking about whether you can cheat or not. But talking about whether you can cheat is exactly the same as talking about whether the site is provably fair. When you say "this site is provably fair" you are saying "there is no way we can cheat you without you being able to notice". Changing the thread title to be "99% provably fair" is meaningless. Nothing is 99% provable - it is either provable or it isn't. Just like you can't be 99% pregnant.
The fact is your claims have not been proven, i have asked you to prove what your saying, but you have failed to do so.
You are no different then the house, if you think you can cheat the system then DO IT.
Once you have done that then you can say its not provably fair.
Or like i have asked before tell us some other way if you are so experienced in this field.
We would love to hear from you about how to take it from 99% to 100%
If you care like you say you do for the community then prove you can cheat the system, or tell us a different method.
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Do you bet big like 1 BTC in hope to win 50 BTC with a huge risk or do you do small bets?
Bet big to win big? Or bet small over a long time to be safer?
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I still would like to see someone cheat the system, all the talk is about how we can cheat the system if it is so easy why isn't everyone coming to the site and cheating you could be making all most 2 BTC a day ($800+) a day?
For me there are three reasons: 1) I wouldn't be cheating you, I would be cheating your customers. You still get your 1% cut. It's rude of you to invite us to try to cheat your customers. 2) I can't be sure that you're not already cheating. If you are, my attempts at cheating won't work. 3) Nobody is playing at a level that makes it worth while. The thing is taking the client seed determining what its going to end at, then broadcasting that exact txid on blockchain is too hard.
Since you started hashing the time in milliseconds into the result, it is no longer possible for players to cheat. Now only you can cheat. But you have pointed out how its not 100% full proof we understand that now. But i still challenge you to cheat the system your self (as you claim its so easy to do) or give us a better method.
I can't while you are picking the client seed so unpredictably. But you still could. Could you explain in detail the steps for us to cheat? as you said we are picking the client seed so unpredictably? 1. buy a ticket 2. wait for the game to end 3. check if you win if you use the current time in milliseconds as the client seed 4. if you do, go ahead and win, else add 1 millisecond to the time and go back to step 3 Doing this you win every time. Sometimes you will use a timestamp that is 10 milliseconds later than the actual end time. That's 1/100th of a second. Nobody will notice. I think the issue is like you said your connection is extremely slow, you are seeing the site not how everyone else is seeing it. Because soon as the game ends the winner is picked, there is no way to go back to step 3 Just uploaded this video so you can see how the site works in real time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RTjeQbHtDk&feature=youtu.beWhen you said" 1) I wouldn't be cheating you, I would be cheating your customers. You still get your 1% cut. It's rude of you to invite us to try to cheat your customers. I though you wanted to help the community? wouldn't you be helping them by proving your theory is right? |
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I still would like to see someone cheat the system, all the talk is about how we can cheat the system if it is so easy why isn't everyone coming to the site and cheating you could be making all most 2 BTC a day ($800+) a day?
For me there are three reasons: 1) I wouldn't be cheating you, I would be cheating your customers. You still get your 1% cut. It's rude of you to invite us to try to cheat your customers. 2) I can't be sure that you're not already cheating. If you are, my attempts at cheating won't work. 3) Nobody is playing at a level that makes it worth while. The thing is taking the client seed determining what its going to end at, then broadcasting that exact txid on blockchain is too hard.
Since you started hashing the time in milliseconds into the result, it is no longer possible for players to cheat. Now only you can cheat. But you have pointed out how its not 100% full proof we understand that now. But i still challenge you to cheat the system your self (as you claim its so easy to do) or give us a better method.
I can't while you are picking the client seed so unpredictably. But you still could. Could you explain in detail the steps for us to cheat? as you said we are picking the client seed so unpredictably? |
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Didn't you just tell me using blockchain can be faked so using it is not provably fair.
It's possible to use the blockchain in a provably fair manner - see pevpot.com for an example. They use a future block hash as the input to a calculation that takes over an hour to come up with the winning ticket. So even if the miner is trying to cheat (perhaps by withholding a block if it makes him lose) he won't know whether his block makes him lose for an hour, by which time it will have been orphaned by some other miner. I don't know what site OP is talking about. It is possible that it's a site like yours which claims to be provably fair but isn't. Maybe it even *is* your site - I don't know. So your saying long as the hash that is used is from a block and not a transaction is ok? |
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Could you explain how we could do it any different besides taking 5 mins to pick a winner?
Just make it so the calculation takes longer than the game takes to run. Also the only claim to us not being provably fair is the house doing transactions, you can check any of the hashes used. most the time its in the $1000s i have even seen a 1.2 million dollar transaction i don't think anyone is going to send 1.2 million USD to rig a game where you make $0.04 lol
You don't have to spend any money other than the fee - you can just send the million USD to one of your own addresses. And again, the sums involved don't matter. "provably fair" means that you can't cheat. It doesn't mean "we can cheat but why would be bother because it's only 4 cents". But we see your point where even if it is not economically profitable, and extremely hard to do there still is that chance.
I don't think it's even very hard. If there are only 3 transactions per second, I could send 10 transactions in that second and have a 10 in 13 chance of winning. That tips the odds massively in my favour if I do it every time. Currently it's not worth it because nobody's playing for anything but dust. But I guess you're hoping that sooner or later people will play the more expensive games, at which point you want to be sure that it's not exploitable - or people will exploit it, if only to show you that they can. I still would like to see someone cheat the system, all the talk is about how we can cheat the system if it is so easy why isn't everyone coming to the site and cheating you could be making all most 2 BTC a day ($800+) a day? The thing is taking the client seed determining what its going to end at, then broadcasting that exact txid on blockchain is too hard. But you have pointed out how its not 100% full proof we understand that now. But i still challenge you to cheat the system your self (as you claim its so easy to do) or give us a better method. |
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I'm not going to try to understand what they are talking about with the client seeds, player seeds, SHA etc numbers that go into the round result (dice roll, blackjack draw, roulette spin etc). I just have one simple question for somebody who understands it better than I:
I see that this system uses blockchain transactions in some way. Does this mean that the result will change at any given time? in other words, let's say I roll a 50, then immediately roll a 92 for example. Would this 92 appear if I had waited say a few minutes? or does the next roll result change with every passing second? hope this question makes sense.
Which game are you asking about? If it says that your roll is randomized according to the hash of the most recently found block, or some such, then yes, timing matters. I don't know of anywhere provably fair that does that though for real-time games. Didn't you just tell me using blockchain can be faked so using it is not provably fair. |
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@dooglus that wouldn't work for our site, as the members do not wait to wait 5 mins to find out if they win. Do you have any other suggestion?
Well, so long as the calculation takes longer than the game I think it's OK. Most games are what, 30 seconds or less? Maybe your members don't care if the game isn't provably fair. That's fine too. Just don't advertise it as provably fair when it isn't. After the last person buys a ticket, its 10 seconds till the game grabs a hash from blockchain. But the timer can be reset at anytime up until the last second. Could you explain how we could do it any different besides taking 5 mins to pick a winner? Also the only claim to us not being provably fair is the house doing transactions, you can check any of the hashes used. most the time its in the $1000s i have even seen a 1.2 million dollar transaction i don't think anyone is going to send 1.2 million USD to rig a game where you make $0.04 lol But we see your point where even if it is not economically profitable, and extremely hard to do there still is that chance. I hope to see you give us a better idea soon. |
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@dooglus that wouldn't work for our site, as the members do not wait to wait 5 mins to find out if they win. Do you have any other suggestion?
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I just won last 2 rounds so if I am right I get double bonus. Bitcointalk Username: onlinedragon Deposit Address: 34Wr1QzRDUynuywBc4ki9FG4aTHAbY9Yq2 http://imgur.com/n9bzGTqAll payments have been sent out.
@retes12345 it looks like 2 of your images do not show you sending a message at the correct time.
Didn't get the last one double paid hope I still can get this. Nice give away anyway! To win the double you have to be the resent winner on the site. If you take a look at the screenshots...you can see that I was the resent winner when I won the second time. I'm saying the most resent winner in the raffle game not the chat box. Sorry for the misunderstanding. |
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We believed our provably fair system was 100%, but after going over dooglus complaints he did have some points. Even know it would be extremely hard to do what he was saying there still is a chance to do what he was saying. But that does not make our system 100% and we don't want to be anything less. So we have now added in a "Client Seed"
We believe we are now at 100%.
I would like to ask dooglus to comment on this new added system.
Wait a minute, you mean you believe you weren't 100% provably fair yesterday? Do you understand that 99.99999% provably fair is the same as undeniably NOT provably fair? Shouldn't you be apologizing to all the people you were not telling the truth to since you opened? If we were wrong then we were wrong. If you have a suggestion on how to improve our provably fair then please let us know and we will use that system. |
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I think you must have a really bad connection or something because everything you are seeing no one else is. Anyways lets try this you guys first didn't like our provable fair system because the house had the hash+salt meaning we knew the winning number every time just like ryan at bustabit knows what its going to bust at every game. Then we changed it to picking a hash from blockchain so no one knows the winning number until the game is over. But now you say we can broadcast to blockchain a tx id so we win. So an example this was a winning hash https://blockchain.info/tx/e06e78a273ae4a2695812c0f57b52f629320abb92476cc6e27407e4ff5ddb3b6Are you saying we were able to make that transaction? Lets end this talk about what we can do to cheat the system, and you the so called expert tell us exactly in detail how you want the system to be and we will change it to your system. We only want to be provably fair, all the talk of us being able to cheat needs to stop, and it sounds like you can tell us how. |
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hhmmmm, I may consider playing your game if you make it provably fair....as it is now, I would not play. If you ever update your game to be provably fair. let me know!! I thanks you sir
Our site is 100% provably fair please read our FAQ page on how it works. You can verify any game using the hash + total satoshi. Thanks for your interest, hope to see you on the game. Ohh i see, it is joke right? Because you say is fair, but is not fair. It is funny yes, but I think you could make it a real game if you make it fair. Good joke though  thank you for sharing buddy As i just said we added a "Client Seed" If you can show us how it is not 100% provably fair. Please let us know in detail. |
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We believed our provably fair system was 100%, but after going over dooglus complaints he did have some points. Even know it would be extremely hard to do what he was saying there still is a chance to do what he was saying. But that does not make our system 100% and we don't want to be anything less. So we have now added in a "Client Seed"
We believe we are now at 100%.
I would like to ask dooglus to comment on this new added system.
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hhmmmm, I may consider playing your game if you make it provably fair....as it is now, I would not play. If you ever update your game to be provably fair. let me know!! I thanks you sir
Our site is 100% provably fair please read our FAQ page on how it works. You can verify any game using the hash + total satoshi. Thanks for your interest, hope to see you on the game. |
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I just won last 2 rounds so if I am right I get double bonus. Bitcointalk Username: onlinedragon Deposit Address: 34Wr1QzRDUynuywBc4ki9FG4aTHAbY9Yq2 http://imgur.com/n9bzGTqAll payments have been sent out.
@retes12345 it looks like 2 of your images do not show you sending a message at the correct time.
Didn't get the last one double paid hope I still can get this. Nice give away anyway! To win the double you have to be the resent winner on the site. |
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If you really want to report bug, please report to popman.he@gmail.com. This is not the right place. Thanks. But if you are a hostile competitor, just do whatever you want. I reported them in this thread, as you presumably already saw. I've tried my best to help but the site owner is an ignorant asshole so I'm out. Thank god, hopefully we wont see anymore trolling now. |
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I will not play your troll games.
You could try verifying these bug reports for yourself. They are real. Your site is broken in multiple ways. Bug reports are fake, i am not going to play your little troll games. |
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