★ BTC-RAFFLE.COM ★▐ Provably Fair ▐ Referral System ▐ Player VS Player ▐

[dooglus]

I will not play your troll games.

You could try verifying these bug reports for yourself. They are real. Your site is broken in multiple ways.

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[btc-raffle.com]

I will not play your troll games.

You could try verifying these bug reports for yourself. They are real. Your site is broken in multiple ways.

Bug reports are fake, i am not going to play your little troll games.

[dooglus]

Bug reports are fake

Good luck with your site. You are going to need it.

[gamblebuilder]

I will not play your troll games.

You could try verifying these bug reports for yourself. They are real. Your site is broken in multiple ways.

If you really want to report bug, please report to popman.he@gmail.com. This is not the right place. Thanks.

But if you are a hostile competitor, just do whatever you want.

[dooglus]

If you really want to report bug, please report to popman.he@gmail.com. This is not the right place. Thanks.

But if you are a hostile competitor, just do whatever you want.

I reported them in this thread, as you presumably already saw. I've tried my best to help but the site owner is an ignorant asshole so I'm out.

[btc-raffle.com]

If you really want to report bug, please report to popman.he@gmail.com. This is not the right place. Thanks.

But if you are a hostile competitor, just do whatever you want.

I reported them in this thread, as you presumably already saw. I've tried my best to help but the site owner is an ignorant asshole so I'm out.

Thank god, hopefully we wont see anymore trolling now.

[Arrogantx]

hhmmmm, I may consider playing your game if you make it provably fair....as it is now, I would not play.  If you ever update your game to be provably fair. let me know!! I thanks you sir

[btc-raffle.com]

hhmmmm, I may consider playing your game if you make it provably fair....as it is now, I would not play.  If you ever update your game to be provably fair. let me know!! I thanks you sir

Our site is 100% provably fair please read our FAQ page on how it works. You can verify any game using the hash + total satoshi.

Thanks for your interest, hope to see you on the game.

[btc-raffle.com]

We believed our provably fair system was 100%, but after going over dooglus complaints he did have some points. Even know it would be extremely hard to do what he was saying there still is a chance to do what he was saying. But that does not make our system 100% and we don't want to be anything less. So we have now added in a "Client Seed"

We believe we are now at 100%. 

I would like to ask dooglus to comment on this new added system.

[Arrogantx]

hhmmmm, I may consider playing your game if you make it provably fair....as it is now, I would not play.  If you ever update your game to be provably fair. let me know!! I thanks you sir

Our site is 100% provably fair please read our FAQ page on how it works. You can verify any game using the hash + total satoshi.

Thanks for your interest, hope to see you on the game.

Ohh i see, it is joke right?  Because you say is fair, but is not fair.

It is funny yes, but I think you could make it a real game if you make it fair. Good joke though thank you for sharing buddy

[btc-raffle.com]

hhmmmm, I may consider playing your game if you make it provably fair....as it is now, I would not play.  If you ever update your game to be provably fair. let me know!! I thanks you sir

Our site is 100% provably fair please read our FAQ page on how it works. You can verify any game using the hash + total satoshi.

Thanks for your interest, hope to see you on the game.

Ohh i see, it is joke right?  Because you say is fair, but is not fair.

It is funny yes, but I think you could make it a real game if you make it fair. Good joke though thank you for sharing buddy

As i just said we added a  "Client Seed" If you can show us how it is not 100% provably fair. Please let us know in detail.

[Arrogantx]

hhmmmm, I may consider playing your game if you make it provably fair....as it is now, I would not play.  If you ever update your game to be provably fair. let me know!! I thanks you sir

Our site is 100% provably fair please read our FAQ page on how it works. You can verify any game using the hash + total satoshi.

Thanks for your interest, hope to see you on the game.

Ohh i see, it is joke right?  Because you say is fair, but is not fair.

It is funny yes, but I think you could make it a real game if you make it fair. Good joke though thank you for sharing buddy

As i just said we added a  "Client Seed" If you can show us how it is not 100% provably fair. Please let us know in detail.

Okay, wonderful this is a good step. You are wise to have looked further into dooglus's comments, after operating the biggest bitcoin gambling site that existed I'm sure you pick up a thing or two. Good Luck with your site, and maybe attempt to be less hostile to helpful people in the future

[dooglus]

I found another possible bug.

The site says "But the final lucky number of each round is the one after 30-second is up" on the main page, and "The final lucky number is the one after 30-second is up" on the FAQ. But I just saw a game that ended less than 17 seconds after the first player bought a ticket.

Maybe it's just a bug in the text, and the 30 second rule is no longer in effect.

But either way you should fix it, and be explicit about which txid is actually used.

the FAQ says the hash which is used is the one after 30 seconds:

Bug reports are fake, i am not going to play your little troll games.

I see you fixed one of the bugs I pointed out, even though you said it was fake:



You've changed the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, matching how the game actually plays. Good job!

Unfortunately you've made the "provably fair" system even less provable than before. Now as well as your unverifiable transaction selection you have added in a millisecond timestamp. You can easily adjust the timestamp by a few milliseconds in either direction to get the result you want.

This is the third different failed attempt to make the site provably fair. It's good that you're trying, I guess, but you really ought to take some advice from someone who knows what they are doing. You are only making it worse.

we have now added in a "Client Seed"

We believe we are now at 100%.  

I would like to ask dooglus to comment on this new added system.

Where can I set the client seed? I haven't noticed that feature.

Even with a client seed, the game isn't provably fair if *you* get to pick the *last* piece of data that affects the result.

The usual flow for provably fair is:

  1) site commits to a server seed by publishing its hash
  2) player picks a client seed
  3) game plays using the two seeds
  4) site reveals server seed

Note that the site's influence on the result happens only in step 1, and the player's influence happens after that, in step 2. That prevents the site from cheating.

On your site the flow is:

  1) players buy tickets (and possibly pick client seeds?)
  2) site picks a txid
  3) site picks a timestamp
  4) result depends on 1, 2, and 3

The site's inputs happen after the player inputs and so can account for them.

Note that in a multiplayer game it isn't good enough even if the client seeds were selected between steps 3 and 4, because we have no way of knowing whether the house is also a player.

I would refer you back to the pevpot thread if you want to see an example of how to make a lottery game provably fair such that even a player who is working with the house is unable to cheat.

[edmundduke]

In all honesty im starting to feel bad for the OP. It is pretty evident that he doesn't really know what he is doing or the knowledge he has is very limited. OP you should understand that the people here actually wanted to help you because in the current form (at least in the form the game was in) no one would really play it. So fixing these issues is something that could help you, if you want to be helped that is.

[Evil-Dragon]

Can't believe someone is actually trying to call someone who ran one of the most profitable bitcoin/alt coin gambling websites a troll. Someone who is not willing to listen to bug reports or lie in the face of evidence that disproves provable fairness should be avoided at all costs. Who knows what the site owner is doing to 'game' the system.

[gamblebuilder]

I found another possible bug.

The site says "But the final lucky number of each round is the one after 30-second is up" on the main page, and "The final lucky number is the one after 30-second is up" on the FAQ. But I just saw a game that ended less than 17 seconds after the first player bought a ticket.

Maybe it's just a bug in the text, and the 30 second rule is no longer in effect.

But either way you should fix it, and be explicit about which txid is actually used.

the FAQ says the hash which is used is the one after 30 seconds:

Bug reports are fake, i am not going to play your little troll games.

I see you fixed one of the bugs I pointed out, even though you said it was fake:



You've changed the 30 seconds to 10 seconds, matching how the game actually plays. Good job!

Unfortunately you've made the "provably fair" system even less provable than before. Now as well as your unverifiable transaction selection you have added in a millisecond timestamp. You can easily adjust the timestamp by a few milliseconds in either direction to get the result you want.

This is the third different failed attempt to make the site provably fair. It's good that you're trying, I guess, but you really ought to take some advice from someone who knows what they are doing. You are only making it worse.

we have now added in a "Client Seed"

We believe we are now at 100%.  

I would like to ask dooglus to comment on this new added system.

Where can I set the client seed? I haven't noticed that feature.

Even with a client seed, the game isn't provably fair if *you* get to pick the *last* piece of data that affects the result.

The usual flow for provably fair is:

  1) site commits to a server seed by publishing its hash
  2) player picks a client seed
  3) game plays using the two seeds
  4) site reveals server seed

Note that the site's influence on the result happens only in step 1, and the player's influence happens after that, in step 2. That prevents the site from cheating.

On your site the flow is:

  1) players buy tickets (and possibly pick client seeds?)
  2) site picks a txid
  3) site picks a timestamp
  4) result depends on 1, 2, and 3

The site's inputs happen after the player inputs and so can account for them.

Note that in a multiplayer game it isn't good enough even if the client seeds were selected between steps 3 and 4, because we have no way of knowing whether the house is also a player.

I would refer you back to the pevpot thread if you want to see an example of how to make a lottery game provably fair such that even a player who is working with the house is unable to cheat.

The timestamp may not be a good choice. We are changing it to use participant's names.  

But just like allowing  player to pick/enter client seed. As player can be house, it just manipulates the result too.
There are just very few hash every second, sometimes, there is none. The outcomes of those hash are totally unknown. So the house cant pick a hash that can get a result in the range he desires.

[dooglus]

The timestamp may not be a good choice. We are changing it to use participant's names.  

That's a step in the right direction.

But just like allowing  player to pick/enter client seed. As player can be house, it just manipulates the result too.

Yes, but so long as the names are fixed before the last element that affects the outcome is selected, that's OK.

There are just very few hash every second, sometimes, there is none. The outcomes of those hash are totally unknown. So the house cant pick a hash that can get a result in the range he desires.

We've been over this. You seem to be saying that because there are very few hashes per second your ability to cheat is somewhat limited, since you can only choose between a few different winners.

Do you see how even if there is limited possibility for cheating, that is still possibility for cheating, and so not provably fair?

And you still seem to be ignoring the fact that the house itself can broadcast a transaction itself that makes a house player win. The fact that there are very few transactions per second makes it easier to cheat, not harder.

Also, on an unrelated note, one of your recent changes broke something. It looks like the participant list isn't being cleared out between games:

[btc-raffle.com]

I think you must have a really bad connection or something because everything you are seeing no one else is.

Anyways lets try this you guys first didn't like our provable fair system because the house had the hash+salt meaning we knew the winning number every time just like ryan at bustabit knows what its going to bust at every game.

Then we changed it to picking a hash from blockchain so no one knows the winning number until the game is over. But now you say we can broadcast to blockchain a tx id so we win. So an example this was a winning hash
https://blockchain.info/tx/e06e78a273ae4a2695812c0f57b52f629320abb92476cc6e27407e4ff5ddb3b6
Are you saying we were able to make that transaction?

Lets end this talk about what we can do to cheat the system, and you the so called expert tell us exactly in detail how you want the system to be and we will change it to your system.

We only want to be provably fair, all the talk of us being able to cheat needs to stop, and it sounds like you can tell us how.  

[TwitchySeal]

We believed our provably fair system was 100%, but after going over dooglus complaints he did have some points. Even know it would be extremely hard to do what he was saying there still is a chance to do what he was saying. But that does not make our system 100% and we don't want to be anything less. So we have now added in a "Client Seed"

We believe we are now at 100%. 

I would like to ask dooglus to comment on this new added system.

Wait a minute, you mean you believe you weren't 100% provably fair yesterday?

Do you understand that 99.99999% provably fair is the same as undeniably NOT provably fair? 

Shouldn't you be apologizing to all the people you were not telling the truth to since you opened?

[btc-raffle.com]

We believed our provably fair system was 100%, but after going over dooglus complaints he did have some points. Even know it would be extremely hard to do what he was saying there still is a chance to do what he was saying. But that does not make our system 100% and we don't want to be anything less. So we have now added in a "Client Seed"

We believe we are now at 100%.  

I would like to ask dooglus to comment on this new added system.

Wait a minute, you mean you believe you weren't 100% provably fair yesterday?

Do you understand that 99.99999% provably fair is the same as undeniably NOT provably fair?  

Shouldn't you be apologizing to all the people you were not telling the truth to since you opened?

If we were wrong then we were wrong.
  

If you have a suggestion on how to improve our provably fair then please let us know and we will use that system.