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1  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [AUCTION] BTCC peeled set / 200x Poker Chips in all denoms. / Purple, Black etc. on: September 12, 2020, 02:01:09 PM
0.15
2  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [Auction]Litecoin Foundation LTC Blocks - LTC Block Reward - .999 Silver Card on: August 21, 2020, 09:59:31 PM
Lot 14. Payment

f9a8cd127f2e57d5549cdf597f89076bc8231c5ad8c1bfe40e7c5f74594bf24c
3  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [Auction]Litecoin Foundation LTC Blocks - LTC Block Reward - .999 Silver Card on: August 20, 2020, 11:08:28 AM
Lot 14.   19.0 LTC
4  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [WTS]Litecoin Foundation LTC Blocks - LTC Block Reward - .999 Silver Card on: August 13, 2020, 04:08:32 PM
2 cards..

Payment  9615f122a90dbaf3a33145dd853265d1e474b762e91ad6dea87265abe0103f1a
Shipping   059096f630a87006d11e63842f2ee687d1eb7648cf8a46082121758fb618e297
5  Bitcoin / Hardware wallets / Re: Heard of any opendime failures? on: May 09, 2020, 12:45:45 PM
Hello everyone.

I'm currently having a problem with the litecoin version of the Opendime.

It seems the web page links in the index page are broken.  400: bad request

When you press verify , the next page says , unverified..Do Not Use.

The opendime works fine , funds are secure....!!!!!!

However....  with the bad links , it makes verifying....Not Fun.

I dont know if they stopped supporting them Huh Or the verify server is just down???

My loaded Bitcoin Opendimes work fine.  Just my Litecoin versions not acting right.


https://opendime.com/LTC/balance/LU3LQi85RyaVeh6sH7kQynWQwV552EPAxB
6  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Special Auction for 5x Denarium Bitcoin Decennium 2019 Gold Bars on: September 07, 2019, 07:05:57 PM
Are any  of my questions not valid questions...Huh?
7  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Special Auction for 5x Denarium Bitcoin Decennium 2019 Gold Bars on: September 07, 2019, 06:33:44 PM
Wait...   I have more questions......

Since you come here looking for investors....

and in Bitcointalk.org/collectibles  fashion

I am wondering the stability of such a company..

Can you show the forum a picture of  the 100 gold bars with your name on a piece of paper

Im sure some Pictures were taked of such a display to see....
8  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Special Auction for 5x Denarium Bitcoin Decennium 2019 Gold Bars on: September 07, 2019, 03:27:34 PM
...Hope you find this as constructive criticism and not bashing Denarium.

Large majority of the money Denarium has made is from the limited edition items made for collectors (gold, silver, bronze and so on). The brass/copper coins would have to be selling at different magnitudes of volume to make real money, and even if we managed to get that demand, then we'd run into major production issues with our current tools/methods. So it's challenging in many ways. Of course the cheaper coins have been good for spreading the word, so they are more for the promotion. They have been drastically improved as well, value for money is quite solid with the most recent gold plated copper 2019 coins.

We could try limited editions even smaller, but there we run into another challenge which is that the mint cost becomes significantly higher per item. And selling any type of limited edition series with a small margin does not work financially speaking. The constant employee costs are too high compared to the volume, margin and the rate of new product series coming out. And this stuff is difficult to make any cheaper, as the process has to be highly secure, supervised, and carefully done overall. Also we've tried to separate ourselves by really focusing on nice packaging, which is a lot of work.

In anycase I definitely appreciate this type of feedback and find it highly constructive. We don't want to drive away collectors as they have been the most important customers to us. We've made mistakes but we always work on them, and we try to make sure that we don't repeat the same mistake again. Just getting slightly desperate about this as the crypto collector market is a super niche already, and if we've managed to alienate a major part of it, then that's pretty much that.



Is this the reason for Auction rule Number 1  ....      


  you are on a roll with the honesty with the last few posts .........


Auction rules

When you post a bid, the bids in your previous posts are considered to be automatically canceled. You can put multiple bids in one post, however.
- If two people bid at the same price, the person who bid first will be first in line to win a bar.
- Bids are considered invalid and will be ignored if they do not specify the price of the bid and the number of bars (if it is more than one bar) the bidder is bidding for, or if they could not possibly win any slots.


 Is this the shit (WE) sit around in the boardroom thinking about  Huh??

 Do your 1500 investors know you promote Denarium products like this....   Do the Prasos board members know you promote Denarium products like this...Huh

Who is WE......  

WE =  Denarium. I'm co-founder & Chairman of Prasos which is the company that operates Denarium.






Technically the rules don't deny many, many things.   You don't need a stipulation for everything.

What's weird about this is Denarium stood to make an extra 0.4 BTC by simply letting Kebab's higher bid stand.  But they went on a limb and allowed them to lower it, against all logic and convention. Why?  

Because was a clever ruse to drum up interest and get a whale to outbid someone for #1. Nobody took the bait and FOMO bid at 0.81.  

So, they had a tough choice.  Allow the shill to lower the bid and take a reputational hit, so that someone might try to outbid the lower 0.4 instead (because 0.8 was clearly off the mark).  Neither strategies worked, and it's backfiring completely.  

Making matters worse, Lebnor wisely caught wind of this strategy, and also lowered his bid.  It wasn't until this happened that Denarium took an even bigger risk. He stepped in to change the rules for Lebnor using this strategy! Even though Lebnor was lowering it by much less than Kebab did.  Why?  Because the scam was being used against them in away they didn't anticipate (by an actual bidder).

This is total bullshit. I'm really getting tired of this. kebab77 is a prominent bitcoin enthusiast who invested in our company some years ago and is a fan of our products. But he has no position in the company. He trusts me and our company probably more than most other crypto wallet creators so he buys from us. But he is not getting any discounts for the auctions, as is nobody else. For website orders we have discounts for shareholders & employees, but that does not apply to auctions. Due to privacy issues I'm dead locked with this as I can't reveal anyones identity. Not only is that crappy practice but that would be a GDPR violation which would be very bad for our company. So there is nothing I can really do to disprove this conspiracy bullshit other than say that it is absolute BS. You, or anyone claiming this, has the burden of proof, in my opinion. No proof is here, or has never been presented before.

As for rsincognito, we had no relationship to him in the past, he caught wind of this from here or our other marketing and came to bid, just like anyone else. And he paid for the bars just like everyone did, as they have before. Even though we have some newbies bidding everyone has always paid. But it is a sure way to stir up this conspiracy shit.

With the rule change in this auction we thought it would've been a worse move to invalidate rsincognito's bid as it technically follows the rules (to my surprise), than to just let the auction continue. We allowed it to continue. Then it soon became clear everyone else (kebab & lebnor) started doing the same thing, so the auction became ridiculous. That's when we made the move to change the rules, in order to be able to close the auction in a decent timeframe. If we haven't done that, playing around with over and underbids would've continued for maybe hours more. It was already 2 hours past deadline. To us that seemed the worse option. Perhaps the right move would've been to invalidate the lower bid of rsincognito right away, or cancel the whole auction, it's always nice to think about things after the fact. But what was done was done and that's that. We'll learn from this of course.

But overall this continued issue with newbies bidding - there is nothing we can do about that. Our company has 90000 customers in our various crypto services, 1500 shareholders and we promote Denarium stuff to them actively. This always leads to some new people coming to the auctions that are new to Bitcointalk. We can't reveal anyones identity here so it's basically up to you to either trust us or not. I just want to make it clear that there is no proof we have had shills in any of the auctions and in fact I can guarantee that there has been 0 shills in any of our auctions. At least not sponsored by us - it's of course possible some bidders have their own shills. To us what matters is that the products get paid and so far we have a 100% paid rate for our auctions.

What is your solution to this? Deny newbies access to these auctions? And by doing that we disable access to these auctions for the 100k or so people in our network. To be honest I'd rather move the auctions off from here entirely. We've worked now for 4.5 years on Denarium trying to improve our products and make them great collectibles for all of you and what we get increasingly from here is shit. So yes, thank you very much indeed.





9  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Special Auction for 5x Denarium Bitcoin Decennium 2019 Gold Bars on: September 07, 2019, 01:09:27 PM
All other gold and Silver  Denarium coins have weight marked on them.... Why did you do it there and not this one......Huh

I explained already the most likely reason. We had discussion about the small size of the bar and its limitations during the production process and compromises were made with the contents of the graphics. The 1oz marking was skipped by the designer to save space, and it went unnoticed as no one thought it was that critical. Also this product experienced large delays for multiple reasons which distracted the team quite a bit. We meant to launch it pretty much in January-February originally.

This was clearly a slip up, any potential future precious metal products will again have the weight mark of course. Then again perhaps some one will think this is special in some way. Collectors sometimes value errors. But I guess we'll see about that Smiley

Was it a slip up and you just decided to sell it anyway,  or is this new to you after production and you don't know that you are doing???

We had no idea about this until it was mentioned in this thread. As I tried to explain earlier I have difficulty seeing the critical importance of that, as did probably everyone else in the team. That's why it went unnoticed. I'm still lacking any answers as to why it's that important.


And this is why you should stick to Base Metal coins.....


maybe you shouldn't have spent all that money on that "CLEAN ROOM..."
10  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Special Auction for 5x Denarium Bitcoin Decennium 2019 Gold Bars on: September 07, 2019, 12:49:31 PM
All that ........ And No comment on the mismatched mint marks and no bar weight?

The questions about the purity markings have been explained in this thread multiple times, and also elaborated on by others. We put the .9999 there as it actually is .9999, and can be proven by a lab certificate. The lab itself only stamps and is allowed to stamp them to up to .999 by law, so that's why the stamp is different.

Just to clarify there are no "mint marks" in this product. The mint puts whatever graphic there that we specify, they don't add anything on their own. What is added afterwards are the lab stamps on the side (by the lab).

As for the 1oz marking, this simply wasn't on the design. The 1oz bar is very small in size and likely our graphics designer simply saved space, not understanding that this isn't the right thing to save space on. Why it went through to production? Good question. We can add this to the list of fuckups I guess! There is internal investigation about this ongoing so I really have no more to say about it at this stage.

Can someone explain to me why the 1oz marking is critical? Other than "it's supposed to be there like always"? I mean practically speaking. You can weigh it to verify it if you like. To me the purity marking is much more relevant. It was a slip up for sure but I have a hard time seeing how it's the end of the world.

It's not like we are the world standard in gold bars and anyone would just trust at face value that our bar is x weight if it has the marking on the bar. Right?

Again, that weight marking, missing or not, has nothing to do with the mint. It's something we either put on the graphic submitted to the mint or not. In this case it was not put in there, for one reason or another. I can get back to that later as we have clarity on this internally.

All other gold and Silver  Denarium coins have weight marked on them.... Why did you do it there and not this one......Huh  

and Real Gold bars with mismatched fineness marks and no weight ..   give me the perception that the maker doesn't know what they were doing...  maybe you should stick to base metal coins....

Was it a slip up and you just decided to sell it anyway,  or is this new to you after production and you don't know that you are doing???   because your auction skills show... you don't know what you are doing....
 

11  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Special Auction for 5x Denarium Bitcoin Decennium 2019 Gold Bars on: September 07, 2019, 12:00:46 PM
JUPITYR & jackbauercsgo,

I really appreciate the feedback. This is the sort of discussion I'd rather be having.

First of all, I'm 100% taking the blame for the auction underbid/rules issues which caused this auction to go to shit. Even though underbids don't make sense in auctions generally speaking, the rules technically allowed that (at least in our interpretation of the rules), so we made a choice which seemed at the time to be the least worst choice of bad options. Afterwards it has become quite clear it wasn't. So I truly apologize for that and this sort of thing will not happen again.

I was really "triggered" about the shilling accusations which from a certain perspective are understandable, but they are completely baseless. There are valid reasons why our auctions have newbies bidding and they always will, as long as we hold auctions here. And there are some crypto collectors who mostly just collect our stuff, so they are bidding mainly in just our auctions.

As for the pricing of our products, that is a very interesting discussion. Are you guys aware why physical crypto manufacturers seem to disappear a few years after starting out? The real reason, when you look deeper through any possible excuses some of them might have, is that it is not profitable. The crypto collector market is extremely niche and for example Denarium has only been profitable in certain periods of peak bull market. Most of the time it has not been profitable and it is not overall profitable (nowhere near). Denarium still exists because it is subsidized by Prasos from its other crypto business lines that are significantly more profitable. And generally Denarium is 2 to 6% of our company's total revenue. Although I must say the increase in gold value recently has improved Denarium's overall profitability quite significantly, as we've had quite a bit of it in stock. This is a blessing since otherwise it's sort of on thin ice all the time.

We haven't figured out how to fix the profitability with pricing. Our pricing has been fairly dynamic and when we sell them too cheap, we end up in a situation where we have nothing to sell for 4-6 months. This happened in peak times of 2017, and for this we probably lost out on a lot of revenue. After that we've been extremely careful of not underpricing anything, as if we sell our stock, it will take many months before we have something new to sell. Other things affect this also when it is a gold product, as our company sees the gold as an investment as well. Thus we're especially not trying to get the gold products sold asap. They are selling though, just might take some time. For example, the limited edition 1 BTC parity gold coin is almost sold out (as is the 2017 1/2oz gold coin, which we've auctioned here recently).

The issue here also is that even at cost price the gold products are nowhere near spot gold. Now we actually have a mint from where we can get fairly close to spot gold products, but there are so many other costs involved in these products, as we put a lot of work on them.

Currently as it stands our other gold products are pretty much priced in this "cost + reasonable margin" manner. They have room for 10% discounts which we occasionally give to clients and this is the discount our employees & shareholders get. Still leaves profit. But there is no room to really go down more than that (with current gold pricing). Our pricing relative to gold is not dynamic, we do manual changes to pricing if there are major changes in gold value.

The only gold product that clearly has some extra margin is this one, the 10-year bar, as it is the current flagship product and we anticipate the interest to be high (based on how we like the product, how people have reacted to it and how people bid in the auction). And we have already sold many bars after the auction, so it is going decently well. But as I've mentioned before we will adjust pricing at some point for this one to be more in line with the others, in case the sales decline significantly. If they sell slow & steady, we'll keep it as is.

Denarium as a standalone business would've stopped some time ago, that I'm very sure of. The profitability of Prasos' other crypto businesses has kept it going, and improving. At least for now. For collectors I guess it's a good thing when a producer goes under, as only then do the products really start becoming true collectibles.



All that ........ And No comment on the mismatched fineness and no bar weight?   I think WE should comment on that topic also


Who is WE......  

WE = Denarium. I'm co-founder & Chairman of Prasos which is the company that operates Denarium.

12  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Special Auction for 5x Denarium Bitcoin Decennium 2019 Gold Bars on: September 06, 2019, 02:10:43 AM
And the issue with the .999 / .9999 gold purity is not really a quality control issue. We use the most reputable lab in Finland for this sort of thing and they simply don't have the .9999 stamp.



It is apparently illegal to stamp higher than .999 purity for gold in Finland. (Source: https://tukes.fi/en/products-and-services/articles-of-precious-metals-jewellery-and-watches/fineness-solders-filling-and-coatings)
Even worse IMO.  Making that bar on purpose with the mismatched marks, seriously?  Roll Eyes  



Quote
If you sell articles of precious metals in Finland, the articles must carry a fineness mark accepted in Finland.  The articles must not carry other fineness marks. The precious metal content of an article must be at least the fineness indicated in the mark; lower finenesses are not allowed.

Their bars only carry these legal .999 purity marks, right? If they had .9999 in the bar, it would be illegally marked. Stating the purity of .9999 in some document is another thing. (And of course you're allowed to stamp .999 on a higher purity bar, everything is alright as long as purity doesn't go below .999 on a .999 stamped item)


4 9s .... 3 9s.......  it's all confusing..    but how much do the bars weigh...     that should have been on the bar..  it's weight..   no??

Gold bars with mismatched fineness and no weight on them seem scamish to me...
13  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Special Auction for 5x Denarium Bitcoin Decennium 2019 Gold Bars on: September 05, 2019, 01:20:54 PM
Who is WE......  

WE = Denarium. I'm co-founder & Chairman of Prasos which is the company that operates Denarium.


Funny how Kebaba77's.   only posts .......are for your auctions..

 
14  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Special Auction for 5x Denarium Bitcoin Decennium 2019 Gold Bars on: September 05, 2019, 03:44:55 AM
From the rules perspective it's quite simple really:

"When you post a bid, the bids in your previous posts are considered to be automatically canceled."

This means you can make new bids that will invalidate your old bids (as long as the new bids are valid!)

"Bids are considered invalid and will be ignored if they do not specify the price of the bid and the number of bars (if it is more than one bar) the bidder is bidding for, or if they could not possibly win any slots."

The new bids were valid as they could still win slots. Not necessarily the same slots as before, but they could still win slots. Thus they replaced the old bids.

I really wish it were not so, as I think we lost some money on this "exploit". But when this happened we checked the rules and it is quite clear it is a valid move to change a bid to a lower amount as long as you can still win slots with it. We thought it was a bit ridiculous as was evident by how the auction started behaving, then changed the rules to get a handle on it.

Note that such a situation is not possible in single-item auctions. This can only happen in an auction with multiple slots, otherwise the rules would have invalidated making a new bid that is lower. This can of course be fixed with a simple rule change going forward.

And no, we have never before changed rules in the middle of an auction nor is it going to become a habit. This was an extreme situation where we had to make a call between cancelling the whole auction and changing the rules, and we went with the latter. I think everyone actually bidding in the auction were fine with how we chose to handle it.


Who is WE......  
15  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Special Auction for 5x Denarium Bitcoin Decennium 2019 Gold Bars on: September 05, 2019, 03:26:28 AM
Why is there 4 9's on the front and 3 9s on the side.....HuhHuh  what TOOL would authorize that for minting...HuhHuh
16  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Brand New ICG Labels for all crypto coins going forward. on: August 09, 2019, 02:52:04 PM
Ya...  if the coin is not .999 fine silver, then .999 fine silver shouldn't be anywhere on the label.

Even if it's in the background...

This may confuse future nubies...  

17  Economy / Collectibles / Re: WTB- ISLAMIC BANK OF BITCOIN CHECK on: August 09, 2019, 02:27:23 PM

I was working on a project like that....


http://imgur.com/3WPHfVc
18  Economy / Collectibles / Re: WTB BTCC ungraded .1 BTC coin on: August 07, 2019, 02:56:14 PM
There are 2 versions of the BTCC 0.1 btc coin.

The poker chip and the newer titanium coin

Which one are you looking for?Huh
19  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [AUCTION] Secret Agent Open-BTCC-Dime!!!! on: July 16, 2019, 08:39:12 PM
I hope everyone reallize that the 1000 bits on this dime are only 1 hop from no input gen coins

In my opinion this couldn't be a better combo.

  A private key that is never seen in readable text
  Funds that are one hop from generation coins...

  And one other thing .......highly collectable
 
20  Economy / Goods / Re: Gift Card as Cold Storage on: July 15, 2019, 12:10:06 AM
"GIFT CARD" sounds like you are giving it to someone...
and it stores only public addresses....


Its not really a gift if you don't give the private key....  is it?Huh
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