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101  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Vote to get bitcoin on Fox's Freedom Watch! on: May 05, 2011, 04:51:49 PM
The GOOOH thing has 13,335 votes.

Good showing anyway, bitcoin!
102  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bitcoin Crowdfunding(Open Source) - Pledge 165 BTC on: May 05, 2011, 03:00:26 AM
As for the recipient priming the pump in hopes to attract more donations... Would someone who might do that be more likely to run off with the cash than someone who did not make contirbutions to their own project?

Scammers will almost certainly pop up unless the escrow period covers a long period of time after the goal is reached. This is a consequence of irrevocable transactions, which those Amazon payments are not. But you're right, I misinterpreted the FAQ there.

Maybe it's not so bad. Long after the scammers are gone their projects will stay behind, and if it was worth the honest pledge the first time, perhaps a few of these projects will be worth taking up in an of themselves. That might sweeten the pill.

And if you want to fund your own project openly, why not? It's just the prospect of shill accounts that concern me.
103  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Unofficial Bitcoin Wiki on: May 05, 2011, 02:49:38 AM
Hey there bitcoinut.

As da2ce7 mentioned, there's no need to call it an unofficial wiki, because everything that doesn't come from the developers is unofficial. That said, you might consider changing it from "Bitcoin wiki, the unofficial Bitcoin wiki," which is exactly like the current wiki header, "Welcome to Bitcoin wiki, All your bitcoin information needs."  Confusion reigns!

If you haven't read the drug discussion thread, here it is. Long story short, the owner of decided against listing certain merchants.

That's where this could be really useful. Instead of duplicating exactly what the old wiki is doing, you might consider just forking the pages you need and hosting an unedited merchant list. That could resolve some disputes in the community and actually be extremely useful to many, both newcomer and bitcoin devotees.
104  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bitcoin Crowdfunding(Open Source) - Pledge 165 BTC on: May 04, 2011, 06:27:58 PM
This seems like a really, really good way to get exactly the people that would benefit from the bitcoin economy into the bitcoin economy. And the best part is that project creators can be from anywhere. Kickstarter currently accepts pledges from anywhere but

Here's a tricky question.

How do you prevent people from doing this?

I pledged to my own project from another account, and now my Amazon Payments account is canceled?!

Warning! Credit card rules forbid project creators from paying themselves. Any pledges made by a project creator to themselves may cause Amazon to cancel a project creatorís Amazon account, making it impossible to receive or remove funds.

While Kickstarter prevents project creators from backing their own projects from the same Kickstarter account, Amazon will detect if the project creator uses a new Kickstarter account and/or a new Amazon account to make the pledge. Amazon looks for the credit card info as well as other primary information to determine if a party is attempting to pay itself. This is not an Amazon-specific policy ó this type of transaction is considered an attempt to create a "cash advance" and is forbidden by all credit card companies.

Please note that Amazon may not detect this action until a project succeeds and they attempt to collect funds. While the project will appear to succeed on Kickstarter, Amazon will later suspend any Amazon Payments accounts controlled by the project creator, making it impossible to receive/remove funds.

My concern is that it's quite easy for scammers that already have a few bitcoins to fake interest in their project with shill accounts, draw honest contributors in and abscond with the cash when their funding is met.
105  Other / Off-topic / Re: FBI raids, confiscate computers, sealed documents, no charges laid on: May 04, 2011, 08:16:22 AM
Is bitcoin involved in some way?
106  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Bitcoin national radio campaign starting this week! on: May 04, 2011, 08:12:40 AM
I've just asked them to start the following ad:

Are you tired of watching the value of the dollar plummet?
Are you tired of banks charging you fees?
Do you want to take back control of your own money?
Then take a look at Bitcoin!
Bitcoin is the world's first decentralized, anonymous internet currency, and is gaining popularity every day.
It's free to use, free to accept, and free from inflation---forever!
You can use bitcoins anywhere in the world, and their value will only grow with time.
To learn more, visit  Thatís

This is really weird. As I was reading this I could totally hear an AM radio host saying this over the sound of beeping and truck engines in the middle of a traffic jam.

Why are you spending so much money on this?

107  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What if receiving payments in bitcoins is made illegal? on: May 04, 2011, 02:39:34 AM
p.s.  Those of you who are filling up the thread with your personal hobby horses aren't being very helpful.  These forums are getting too swamped for every thread to get hijacked like this--try to take a little time and think through a careful response to the OP.

Quoted for truth, glad I'm not alone in this sentiment.
108  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Should drugs be listed at on: May 03, 2011, 04:22:02 AM
So essentially, magicaltux both:

1. Runs the primary currency exchange

2. Runs the primary information exchange

I'm not sure how I feel about this as a long-term situation. And I don't have any opinion one way or the other about his reputation or ability to competently fill both these rolls, but perhaps it's not a good idea to have all the eggs in one basket.
109  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gavin will visit the CIA on: May 03, 2011, 04:14:38 AM
Does anybody really think the CIA has any problem with fund transfers?  Don't you think they already have plenty of methods of doing that and that it's extremely unlikely that Bitcoin (with all due respect) has come up with something novel that surprises them and gives them some new capability that they simply don't have already?  Sounds farfetched to me.

They're experts at moving money around, no doubt. And the only thing they can't easily do is duplicate the robustness of p2p networks. It seems highly likely to me that they need failsafe backups just like the rest of the world - something that always works if the internet is still switched on. See Tor for a good example of that strategy.

My thinking is that the June invite is the opening act of their dance to get engaged with the people of this project in order to ultimately "persuade" them to provide some "backdoor" method of weakening the system so that it becomes ineffective as a defense against government.  Surely they have the source code and the ability to understand this 100% on their own.  Why even talk to Bitcoin people?

I'd guess that many people in the organization completely and thoroughly understand bitcoin better than the majority of people that actually use it. But they're a big bureaucracy with a bunch of different departments and conflicting internal goals, just like any major branch of the government. If the guys in the analysis department want the guys that make decisions to take notice, they do it like any other office worker does it - however they can. And in this case they bought a bit of time from a guy to make a presentation.

Here's a bargaining chip...

"If you want the power to find _real_ criminals who are using Bitcoin, then show us the _guarantee_ that merely _political_ crime such as tax evasion is exempt from any action by government."

I fail to see how this would work. What guarantee can the US gov't give that they couldn't immediately revoke as soon as it's convenient for them?


110  Economy / Economics / Re: Absolute corruption at Fed. res. revealed for all to see. on: May 02, 2011, 09:45:44 PM
Off topic.

Contribute or delte/move thread please.

You lost me there. How do you mean Contribute? I just put up a link to an exemplary article of why the Fed. Res. centralised model is finished.

The bitcoin decentralised p2p monetary system would doom this kind of societal raping and pillaging to history, imo.

Are you supporting the Fed. Res.?

Sorry if I was a bit terse. Americentrism is too prevalent on the internet anyway, don't take it personally when I get a snippy about posts that assume we're all involved or share a common interest in any particular financial system ('cept bitcoin, natch).

Thanks for moving the thread Moa, much more appropriate here.
111  Economy / Economics / Re: Absolute corruption at Fed. res. revealed for all to see. on: May 02, 2011, 08:05:23 AM
Off topic.

Contribute or delte/move thread please.
112  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: A survey for my Future bitcoin store on: May 02, 2011, 05:16:59 AM
 I will purchase moonshine in small quantities. I can't take your survey but offering Kentucky moonshine is a good idea.

Pic related and don't take it personal; Popcorn Suttton would have been trading btc for etoh if he were alive.

113  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Scammer/thief identification pool on: April 29, 2011, 09:16:02 PM
Q. How do we prevent bad people from using the vigilante group to harass good people?

A. We can't.

114  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gavin will visit the CIA on: April 28, 2011, 07:02:06 AM
I want to get this out in the open because it is the kind of thing that will generate conspiracy theories:  I'm going to give a presentation about Bitcoin at CIA headquarters in June at an emerging technologies conference for the US intelligence community.

I accepted the invitation to speak because the fact that I was invited means Bitcoin is already on their radar, and I think it might be a good chance to talk about why I think Bitcoin will make the world a better place. 

I'm very interested to hear the content of your talk, Gavin. I assume you'll be posting it here or that it will eventually be available online somewhere?

And on a side note, I wrote this parable a while ago but never found a fitting time to post it:


Child walks in jungle. Cub walks in the jungle.

Man hunts in the jungle. Tiger hunts in the jungle.

Man cuts down jungle. Tiger runs.

Tiger  in zoo. Man in ticket booth.
115  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Idea: Bitcointorrent on: April 26, 2011, 04:52:06 AM
If you could escape from the seemingly limitless reach of litigious media rights-holders, a tracker that pays people btc to seed files would be pretty kick-ass. Just make people pay for the last 10% of any given file to motivate people to seed to completion. The bounty goes up for every month nobody DLs a torrent or every seeder that drops out, goes down when it is downloaded to let leechers make their money back, and the website has a discount section for seeders who feel like they're going to give up on seeding a file.

But you'll never escape if you start actually facilitating payments between filesharers.

116  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Don't buy bitcoin thread on on: April 25, 2011, 01:30:01 AM
No offense, friend, but you're fighting against the tide here.

These threads really boil down to someone saying "well, I don't think it's worth anything so I'm not going to use it." And then we all just wasted 50 posts talking about economics, misapprehensions about digital currencies, what open source means, the fed, libertarianism, drugs, and all kinds of irrelevant bullshit.

I've followed about fifteen similar threads and I've never seen anyone change their mind about anything, on either side of the debate.

I have a feeling that these threads will stop occurring as frequently when a bitcoin acolyte can point to a list of online stores and say, "if you had bitcoins you could shop here."

That said, don't let my negativity stop anyone. I just think convincing people to use bitcoin is a bit of a waste of time because when they're already contrary to the idea it is unlikely that you can turn them around.
117  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bitcoin Memes on: April 17, 2011, 01:27:00 AM
Just start making images.

Memes are not created by marketers. Memes are accidentally spawned by people who manipulate and trade images.

118  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Loosely Managed Digital Currency Could Be Avenue for Crime That's Hard to Block on: April 16, 2011, 06:43:56 PM
Still, court orders may be served to bitcoin exchanges, users and other operators, ordering them to "ban" specific bitcoins if needed, he said.

This is a really bad thing for the overall bitcoin legitimate economy, not so much for the money launderers.

If the exchanger is in possession of a badcoin, looks like they'll have to eat it. If the legitimate user is in possession of a badcoin, they'll eat it. And while exchangers can put a price on the risk (or remain informed of newly-outlawed badcoins via a centralized list or somesuch), end user's won't be expecting that to happen - why would they? They're legitimate and law-abiding, it's the equivalent of a police officer running up to you on the street, demanding a $100 bill from your wallet on pain of arrest, stamping BEARER SPENDS BLOOD MONEY - BEWARE on it, handing it back and saying, well, good luck with that.

Money launderers are still functioning. Unless the enforcement will can be found that will cover dozens of countries and hundreds (thousands?) of exchangers to grapple with badcoins, they'll just move them to jurisdictions where such laws don't apply. And there they will re-enter circulation until they eventually end up with an exchanger or user who is unwilling to break the law.

I wonder if there's a way around this mess.
119  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Calling all MEN... on: April 16, 2011, 06:11:41 PM
How many of you REAL MEN would put 95% of your entire life, solemnly and nearly absolutely swear on Bitcoin and its success? How many of you?

As for me, I do.

Who else?

It's a good thing we're excluding women, I hear they have cooties.

Thank you for your sarcasm, lightrider. Glad to know I'm not alone.

As for the rest of you savages, if you want to remain marginalized and howling naked in the far and barren hinterlands of the internet, beating your cryptographically hardened chests with your bitcoin clubs imbued of black magic, adorning yourselves around dim fires with alpaca, drawing golden ratios in the sand with your primitive calipers, feel free to do just that. Enjoy your lives far from Rome's glowing light, short and brutish though they may be. And in the far distant future of 2021, long after your sideline civilization has been dusted from the roiling surface of the world, a woman will walk down by the riverbank and happen to pick up a bitcoin buried in the sand, puzzle over it for a bit and throw it back into the flow of the water - a primitive token as useless as the ancient old "warriors" who used it, long dead now.

If you exclude the biggest portion of humanity from being pumped about bitcoin, don't be surprised when we all turn our backs.
120  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Online poker companies indicted for fraud on: April 16, 2011, 05:43:40 PM
So there are about a million Americans who want to play poker right now and can't. It would be a good time to open a nice Bitcoin poker room.

If some developer with experience making things happen needs a little capital, let me know.

There already is one, though I can't guarantee it's "nice" or even "active." It's at

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