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81  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Million man march / socialization of risk on: May 16, 2011, 10:33:14 PM
Could we do the following --
1) People wishing to voice their public support for an issue send a message encrypted with their public key to a centralized location
2) They also send BTC into an account to verify that they are not gaming the system with false information in order to inflate the numbers
3) After a threshold of encrypted messages are sent, everyone is asked to send in their private keys
4) Messages are decrypted and published -- now 500,000 people can simultaneously publicly declare their support for certain issues which they would otherwise be afraid to speak out about as lone voices
5) BTC can be returned if the message is verified as real? Or used to support the system or future endeavor? Or possibly used as a legal defense fund in case individuals are targeted for prosecution as a result of disclosing their support for a certain idea? Or a combination of the above as conditions warrant?

Hell yeah, good idea in principle, you'd think you'd need captchas more than bitcoin. Something that costs time if you tried to manipulate it, not money - plenty of people have money to throw around, the committed will to lobby someone or brand something, and it penalizes honest but broke voices.

Interesting idea. Kinda how facebook "viral" stuff works sometimes but without the sudden reveal - nice twist.

82  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This Forum & NOTIFY me of replies? on: May 16, 2011, 10:16:51 PM
1 + 20999999 = x

If you've come back to answer this security question, then yes it works.

But no, it doesn't, and neither does the "show new replies to your posts" function.
83  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Slashdotted (again) on: May 16, 2011, 10:11:42 PM
Bitcoin is the native currency of the World Wide Web.
This! Bitcoin is the Internetís money.

Yeah I thought that too but I feel if you don't say "currency" it'll bring to mind beenz and flooz and whatever the hell. Currency is an under-utilized and powerful word. To my mind, "Internet money" conjures an image of etheriality and substancelessness not on par with the current/projected buying power of bitcoin.

84  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Legalize Bitcoins Petition? on: May 16, 2011, 10:08:40 PM
How is it that discussion about a worldwide digital hard currency revolves exclusively around the good old United States of America?

How come nobody ever discusses the prospect of heavy-duty legislation against bitcoin or similar currencies in China, Iran or North Korea? Those strike me as a lot more interesting scenarios, especially given their capabilities to censor and surveil the internet. Americans have been spied on but the government has never publicly shown the ability to get something like the Great Firewall going or track Tor users.
85  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Slashdotted (again) on: May 16, 2011, 10:00:20 PM
The problem is the way bitcoin is presented. You guys all like it because you are libertarian types. But keep in mind that the vast majority of people in the world aren't. But bitcoin doesn't just appeal to libertarian types. All you need to say to promote it is:
Bitcoin is a free paypal that anyone can use.

Please leave the libertarian, going to replace all other currencies, take over the world stuff out of it. That just turns people off.
The only important thing for people to know is that it is better than what people use now for online payments.

Huzzah! Too true. Though I think bitcoin is a robust enough idea to withstand the general disdain most people have for anything libertarian, there's an exclusionary attitude around these forums that doesn't help either. Every time you say the word "bankster" or "brainwashing" one person nods in assent, two people are bored and ten leave in disgust. Just sayin - no need to post it in every single thread, you do more harm than good.

This seems misleading, as Paypal is a transmission method for supported currencies while Bitcoin is a currency of its own. Saying it's like Paypal might lead people to believe that they can use it anywhere Paypal is accepted, rather than the limited number of merchants that accept Bitcoin.

Huzzah! Also too true. I suggest:

Bitcoin is the native currency of the World Wide Web.
86  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Flashlights and LEDs for Bitcoins? on: May 13, 2011, 09:27:45 PM
Hi Craig.

Just a heads up, feel free to list your store in the bitcoin wiki. Might get a bit more traffic once this post drops off the first page, just put a little note saying "email me for bitcoin pricing" if necessary.

87  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Bitcoin South Africa on: May 12, 2011, 04:37:21 PM
SA has some challenges in getting BTC up and running, specifically currency controls. But we hope to raise a community that can help us overcome these challenges.

What forms of currency controls are you referring to?

Also, should I congratulate you on operating the first bitcoin site on the continent?
88  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Bitcoin is not used as money anymore on: May 12, 2011, 04:30:59 PM
One hosting service, one donation-accepting activist website and one btc lottery added to the wiki in the 24 hours. Day before that four new services/businesses listed. Also check out Silk Road, last time I took a look there were 1200 members, tough to gauge how many are active but assuredly some are, and they don't mess with anything other than bitcoin.

To answer your question "what do we do about that?" just start up a business that accepts btc for goods or services. It's a smarter move than buying bitcoin, that's for sure - you reinforce the overall economy and obtain coins with a safety margin, your profit.
89  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / The only bitcoin-related thing I do every day is... on: May 11, 2011, 06:14:37 PM
check the wiki for new btc-accepting businesses.

Between May 9th and May 10th, four more places to spend money!

Exchange rate excitement is one thing, but watching a whole new economy grow is really satisfying. I started paying attention to the wiki in early March and the page was 1/5th the size that it is now. Seems like that's a pretty heartening indicator of bitcoin's longterm adoption.

Is anyone else more interested in regular old merchants than another dollar on the mtgox chart?
90  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Welfare is deforming children! on: May 11, 2011, 06:01:48 AM
Hell yeah, constructive is what we do, right?

A bit unclear on my part, I looked through the first page of results couldn't find anything to back up the latter half of your statement.

...a lot of women are intentionally smoking during pregnancy to cash in on the system even more so.

I can't find any valid data to back that statement up I'm going to have to call it an anecdote and thereby not fitting material to discard an entire political philosophy.

91  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Milwaukee Makerspace's response to Bitcoin on: May 11, 2011, 04:44:13 AM
This bank serves a very important purpose, and the power it has to regulate the dollar has saved our asses before.

You can't understand the benefits of Bitcoins if you think the Fed is a useful government agency. I think the best way to for you to figure out whether you like this concept or not is to research the arguments against the Fed and its policies. If you can conclude from that search that a decentralized, deflationary currency is superior to the dollar as it stands, then you'll embrace Bitcoin.
That's completely wrong. You can appreciate the endless list of things Bitcoin has to offer without having any opinion whatsoever about politics.

I'd say we need this fucking list. I'll start:

1. Anyone can use and understand bitcoin. It's as simple as you want it to be.

92  Other / Off-topic / Re: The geek shall inherit the earth on: May 11, 2011, 04:35:15 AM
And with this p2p shit there's no temple to be thrown out of either.
93  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Welfare is deforming children! on: May 11, 2011, 04:33:27 AM
I was recently talking to someone that works for a state Medicaid office and this is what I learned:

The way Medicaid works is that you get more money for having low birth weight children and because of that, a lot of women are intentionally smoking during pregnancy to cash in on the system even more so.

So yeah I looked through the first page of your lmgtfy and I couldn't find anything about this statement.

There's no data to back up what this guy was saying?
94  Economy / Economics / Re: How can Bitcoin be used to promote ethnic diversity? on: May 11, 2011, 04:20:27 AM
What use is Bitcoin if it doesn't do the same? How can we ensure that Bitcoins are distributed equitably to traditionally underrepresented groups? What is being done to ensure the proliferation of Bitcoin infrastructure amongst communities of color?

These three questions in brief:

What use? Money is money. Like conventional currencies, distribution of bitcoin is dependent on market forces and regulatory bodies.

Equitable distribution? Perhaps some benevolent actor will start pre-loading One Laptop per Child machines with the client and one bitcoin.

What is being done? Nothing that I'm aware of. There's some idle talk of hawala networks, and if bitcoin becomes useful it will certainly be widely adopted in the Southern hemisphere. As Garret Burgwart noted, go tell someone - charitable organizations are an especially good way to get bitcoin circulating amongst whatever communities interest you.

At any rate, examples of racial equality  based on what Fortune 500 companies do suggests to me "troll post" but I'm willing to believe you're acting in good faith. Just so you know, board members of that group of companies are currently around 73% white males, not exactly a benchmark of diversity.
95  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What are you going to do, when (if) bitcoin hit $1000/BTC? on: May 11, 2011, 03:48:33 AM
I believe I will buy some bitcoins at that point since they're a proven store of worth.

96  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Milwaukee Makerspace's response to Bitcoin on: May 11, 2011, 03:07:28 AM
Calling people names and copping a "damn the man; I know better than everyone" attitude isn't helping your cause, guys.

We (MMS) are a very diverse group of people with very diverse interests and very diverse worldviews.

We're open to the idea.  Just please try to explain how Bitcoin would benefit our group if we accepted it for donations.  Don't act like anarchists and know-it-alls.


Hey Ross, don't let them get the better of you. Thanks for coming into the bitcoiner's den, shows your genuine interest and willingness to accept or reject ideas and technologies based on their merits and that's a true maker's attitude. The thing is there are a lot of acolytes here who have been stewing on these forums for a long time and almost every possible debate has been brought up multiple times; they get a bit prickly:)

As mentioned above, donations are probably your best reason to use bitcoin right now. If you want proof you might check out the little list of organizations that are taking bitcoins on the wiki: Find something you like, go to donation page and copy/paste their bitcoin address into For instance, Hackerspace Brmlab (first hackerspace in the Czech Republic) is taking bitcoins, you can see their skimpy haul at

If you get some bitcoin donated, you can sell 'em on for USD or bitcoin-otc for any imaginable other exchange, you can trade 'em with any of the merchants listed on the wiki, or you can just hang on to 'em and sell in a year or two (lotsa speculation that prices will explode in 2013). You probably will get donations because we're in an era of excitement coupled with many people who have a whack of bitcoins to go around - I've given outlandish donations to organizations because I paid $0.60 for my bitcoins and now they're cracking $5.00.

One final note: this forum is the home of the true believers. I don't count myself as one of those, I don't particularly give a fuck about American fiscal policy or "banksters" or even PayPal, but I do appreciate bitcoins' ability to put more practical power in the hands of anyone who wants to bother. We have homebrew 3D printers and CNC machines galore, unprecedented access to materials, and hopefully we'll have a native internet currency to pay for it all someday soon. Long-term, that's exactly where bitcoin dovetails perfectly with the maker's credo.
97  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: list of bitcoin-like proposed currencies on: May 10, 2011, 04:18:46 PM
Ripple is really interesting, both for the fact that it's genuinely revolutionary (no kidding here, the implications seem to run deep) and for the fact that it's been going since 2006 and hasn't really taken off, not compared to bitcoin. Financial incentives are higher for early adopters of btc maybe... at any rate, ripple is pretty cool. Good idea with that blockchain thing!

And just for people reading this list, there's also Open Transactions, not really bitcoin like but complementary in every way.
98  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin's Paypal solution/alternative? on: May 10, 2011, 06:49:05 AM
Seller's advantage doesn't seem to be a bitcoin-related problem. There are any number of irrevocable cash transactions you can get involved in on the interwebz.

This is why ebay exists in its current form, to grapple with this kind of thing. When they started they were an auction house and a unique marketplace, now they're in the business of being the worlds largest dispute-resolution mediator, a function they've proven themselves to be somewhat competent at. Except for all those horror stories:)

Clearcoin, bitcoinfeedback - just a couple of things that have come up to deal with this, and if bitcoin really is going to become the native currency of the internet there will doubtless be dozens of dispute-managing services and escrow systems emerging.
99  Economy / Economics / Re: How Much Of The World's Gold Was Mined Before People Started To Think Of It As $ on: May 10, 2011, 06:39:22 AM
Gold has been considered valuable for thousands of years, and obviously it's always been mined purely because it was considered valuable. Bitcoins on the other hand started out as a political movement, and still largely is.

That's an interesting take on the origins of bitcoin - I haven't dug into the shadowy past of this thing to validate the truth of that statement. But the best part is that no matter what your political leanings (or lack of them, should you just so happen to be an apathetic person) bitcoin still works for you.

That's great, isn't it? It's a very useful invention. And sometimes I feel that the forum paradigms around here might lend a bit more weight to the perceived political "purpose" of bitcoin than is strictly correct - it just so happens that many of the regulars around here are believers of a common stripe, it doesn't necessarily mean that the forums represent the average bitcoin user now or in the future.

If I were ready for a political debate (and I'm not, I'd surely be exposed in all my glorious ignorance) I'd raise the question: what kind of terrible political agenda would necessitate the creation of a tool that is equally valuable to all competing political agendas. Bitcoin is just as useful to terrorists, the Secret Service, Chinese activists or Santa Clause as it is to someone who, let's say, has concerns about American monetary policy?

Anyways, sorry, we were talking about gold. I love going off-topic.

100  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: list of bitcoin-like proposed currencies on: May 10, 2011, 06:23:45 AM
Here's a discussion amongst the Ripple developers about a p2p implementation of Ripple using a bitcoin-like blockchain.

I don't know how far they've gotten with this idea though.
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