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61  Other / Off-topic / Re: Sovereign Citizens: (( We the People )) : Freedom and Justice for All! on: May 25, 2011, 07:03:16 PM
forum.bitcoin.org needs a "murricans" board along with the Chinese, French, Russian, Spanish, etc...



62  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Direct sell of BTC, buyer can scam. Escrow, seller can scam. :/ on: May 24, 2011, 04:25:51 PM
The question is, if that company starting to support chargebacks will have to set some high fee. Like those 4% credit card companies have. Then, one of big Bitcoin benefits will disappear.

For that particular spindly crag on the bitcoin iceberg, yes. The rest of it floats on unaffected.

63  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Branding on: May 23, 2011, 11:47:47 PM
I do like The People's Money.  Sounds slightly communistic/socialist for some reason, but w/e.  I like it.

Shortline, while trying to let the technology sell itself on its own merit sounds like a great idea, in practice, it doesn't work.  People just aren't tech-savvy enough to even begin to understand the underlying technology, or why it is better than other e-currencies out there.  They also aren't smart enough to know much of anything about how an economy works, the effects of an inflationary or deflationary currency, or the way the government can affect the currency supply.  You have to put it all in layman's terms, and that starts with how you name it, and continues with how you market it.  How bitcoins are marketed to the general public will make or break it.  Fortunately, the most powerful marketing tool out there is also currently the most-used to promote bitcoins: Word of Mouth.  No one listens to anyone more than their own friends and family.

I am not a marketer either.  Not sure what point you were trying to make about that if I was/wasn't.  I do have a business degree though.

Just trying to be as far away as possible from the "this magical object can only go up in value" as-seen-on-tv type thing. Bitcoin seems to have an unpleasant whiff of that nowadays. There were lots of people trying to sell email and it obviously wasn't necessary, it was just time. It was time for Tor this year. Hopefully it's bitcoin's time soon.

At any rate Sarge, I'm down if bitcoin is portrayed by anyone however they want, more or less. Consensus isn't strictly necessary. I don't necessarily think memorydealer's radio ad is the greatest thing ever, doesn't really speak to my idea of bitcoin, but I wouldn't blame 'em for doing it.

+1 on the word of mouth though. Everyone I know who sells stuff (not many but a few) I've told about it.
64  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ƀ Another Bitcoin identity on: May 23, 2011, 11:07:15 PM
North America has vertical lines.

$

Europe has horizontal.

Ä

If that's the reasoning I'm digging it. Bitcoin(s) not bitcoin?
65  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Branding on: May 23, 2011, 11:01:04 PM
You might think of bittorrent as a good thing.  I, and many other people, do not.  It means lost jobs, lost profits, theft, and a myriad of other things to people who choose not to participate in such activities.

It is like bitcoin (at least so far, fingers crossed) in that it works at whatever it does. It sucks that you lost your job - really, it does, and I don't think I have any answers for you there:(

There are plenty of people who make an opinion about something without reading a word about it.  I think first impressions and brand name imagery is incredibly important, and any competent marketer will tell you the same thing.

Shortline, a byline or a tagline absolutely will affect what people think about bitcoins.  Big firms literally spend fortunes to determine the optimum words to use with their products.  They know that by optimally branding their product they can increase their sales many times over.  People form an initial impression in 1-5 seconds of hearing a new concept.  After that, it is a fight to change someone's mind.

Most people will NEVER spend 15 minuter to learn what crypto-currency is, but they might want to learn about the new internet money.

All that's true. Marketing is important. The question is, when you're posting here on this forum are you a marketer? You and I may be buying or selling bitcoin personally, sure. It seems like allowing it to stand on the strength of it's technological merits and the depth of it's economy is smarter marketing than trying to change anyone's mind in a big way. Be slick about it but not too slick if you get what I'm saying. It's not a product to peddle, it's an idea to be rejected, accepted or modified.

Wiki money. Democratic money. The Peopleís money. Grin

I like the "Internetís currency" best. Itís not just another Flooz, Beenz or e-gold, but THE Internetís currency because it is universal.

+1 The People's money

Sounds very charming and highlights the collective fashion of BitCoin in a clean and simple way.


Has a nice ring to it but not strictly true Smiley

The People's Money, if you have electricity.
66  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Public relations guidelines/talking points wiki page on: May 23, 2011, 10:24:15 PM
Hey Mike, great stuff. Thanks for writing that.

I hope you don't mind but I'm jumping in and changing a few things as I see fit, as per regular wiki etiquette. Feel free to revert or bring it up on the talk page at your leisure.

edit: also everyone else should do that because good stuff gets lost in the forum, wikis are better for newcomers to do their independent reading, and if it's big enough to take over the global banking system* it's big enough to put some work in on the wiki. Be like Mike.

*no imminent takeover of the banking system express or implied by this statement
67  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Branding on: May 23, 2011, 10:00:08 PM
Oh and by the way, I've heard bitcoin referred to as "chanbucks" here and there. That's a good thing - since nobody can change what bitcoin essentially is except by unprecedented majority consent, if different parts of the internet call it different things through organic means that's an unqualified success.
68  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Plutarchy?!? on: May 23, 2011, 09:53:29 PM
While this inevitable development is potentially dangerous, it is also potentially extremely useful.  A web of trust built directly on top of the Bitcoin network could be extremely valuable, especially if one is performing a transaction of value significantly less than the value invested in cultivating the Entity.

This oughta interest you if you haven't seen it already.

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8423.0
69  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Branding on: May 23, 2011, 09:48:35 PM
Grassroots reminds me of hippies as well.  It doesn't really matter what the term is supposed to mean, only the imagery that said term conjugates in someone's mind.

Internet money is... kind of cheesy.  I think a less generic name would be appropriate.

I like decentralized currency.  It is self-explanatory, memorable, a bit cold, but the idea of it helps warm the imagery a bit.

How about universal currency?  Global currency?  I think global anything could have a negative connotation in people's minds.  Just my feeling though.  Universal sounds better.

If you think about it, many of the internet mega-sites have non-traditional names that don't mean anything otherwise (or at the very least, are completely unrelated to the items/services they are selling).  eBay?  Amazon?  Google?  Geocities?  Pandora? 

I think a unique name (i.e. bitcoin) in and of itself will be enough once the majority of people have at least heard the term "bitcoin" thrown around once.  The only question is whether bitcoin can/will have a negative association in the average person's mind just from the term.  What would someone who has never heard of bitcoin think of when they first hear the word bitcoin?

When I first heard of bitcoin I immediately thought of bittorrent. Good thoughts flooded my mind. Next I thought, well, what the hell is bitcoin? Read the faq, thought "oh, it's like an opensource internet money" and there we are.

Fact is, a byline isn't going to truly affect what people think about bitcoin. It can pique interest, but it can't replace fifteen minutes of reading a few things and making up their own minds about it. To me the most important thing is to reflect in the "branding" the nature of the project, which is in practice almost apolitical because it is almost universal.

please, if you want to make some branding for Bitcoin, try o use a name can be used independent of the talked mother language. what is supposed to mean "grassroot"?

Quoted for truth. The common consensus of how we refer to bitcoin should be as inclusive and non-Americentric as possible. There's plenty of room to have an "American bitcoin," and that's a huge share of bitcoin use right now and always will be, but eventually if it takes off the way we hope it will, it is agreeable if it's based in concepts that can translate well.

Wikipedians somewhere along the line decided that they would have every article translated into every language. That eventually became one of the guiding principles for editors. I realize that these are fundamentally different things but that just seems like a worthwhile, if diffuse, goal to have - to be globally, linguistically and culturally inclusive as much as is functionally possible. Nothing can stop anyone from firing up BitCoin the software, but plenty of piddlin' little things can deter them.
70  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Plutarchy?!? on: May 23, 2011, 01:44:30 PM
Interesting idea, but it ain't necessarily plutocracy. Given sufficient motivation, the mass of smalltime bitcoin users can overwhelm the wealthiest individuals if the transaction fee is low enough. And if you truly wanted to see who will put their money where their mouth is, you'll make it cheap if not free, right?


This is going to be used whenever a Bitcoin identity, whether that be a person, group of opinions, or trading software wishes to signal with its financial reputation.  It is almost the purest expression of humanity.

You scare me :/




71  Economy / Economics / Re: PetroBitcoin on: May 23, 2011, 01:00:09 AM
The best the Bitcoin community should strive for in the short-to-mid term is greater adoption by the average person, not by a governmental entity. That would bring unwanted pressure and and potential legal barriers to the use of the Bitcoin in the US at least, considering the fact that the only reason the dollar has any value anymore is that it is tied to oil.
The dollar is backed by the full metal jacket of the United States Government.
or by nothing "in short".
Unfortunately, the petrodollar is something.  Basically, a synonym for violence.

Just about everybody who suggests that the dollar is toast becomes toasts.

See Saddam Hussein and Dominique Strauss Kahn as examples that immediately come to mind.



Oh cool then we can stop talking about dollars on the bitcoin forum then? I'd like to take that step some day.
72  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Milestones on: May 20, 2011, 07:01:06 PM
Number of bitcoins in existence reaches parity with number of bitcoin fantasies in existence.
73  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Make Bitcoin Mainstream: Give it away like PayPal gave away $5 to new signups. on: May 19, 2011, 08:25:50 PM
Bitcoin: not a ponzi scheme.


"It gets promoted by its users" is not a sufficient characteristic to classify something as a Ponzi scheme.

True. There are many people who are casually acquainted with it and think it's some kind of a ponzi scheme, or scam, or conspiracy, or whatever. Just giving out bitcoins for the sake of giving out bitcoins is nice, but the faucet already does that. If I'm understanding it correctly, OPs plan reinforces that ponzi thing - "Come get yer bitcoin! Get in on this thing, NOW!" without really demonstrating the utility of this kind of payment system.


Youtipit is awesome-er. Firstly, as an introduction to bitcoin it can immediately demonstrate the usefulness of the currency - get money anywhere at any time. Secondly, it can immediately demonstrate the power of the bitcoin - get money anywhere at any time and for any reasonl; quality posts are rewarded, and a much wider audience is reachable.

You dig me?
74  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Describe Satoshi without pics on: May 19, 2011, 03:34:59 PM

The purpose of this thread is to establish a consensus on what Satoshi looks like; to define his character representation so that future drawings of him may portray him similarly.

photo version

Satoshi is somewhere in the middle of the gender spectrum. Don't limit Satoshi with insignificant little pronouns like the Bible uses.
75  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Make Bitcoin Mainstream: Give it away like PayPal gave away $5 to new signups. on: May 19, 2011, 03:30:45 PM
Bitcoin: not a ponzi scheme.
76  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Getting Bitcoin to the news (love #bitcoin-otc) on: May 19, 2011, 02:37:20 AM


Why not just buy more bitcoin, approach charitable organizations whom you admire, ask them to accept btc donations? Surely Wikipedia accepting bitcoin donations would spread the word wider, faster and with less confusion than this.

77  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin concept is groundless TECHNICALLY..this article says..Can anyone defend? on: May 18, 2011, 09:30:20 PM
This thread would be much better if there was less political posts to wade through looking for the actual rebuttals. Bitcoin is very good tech, all the wanky political assertions and theories and sweeping statements should get out and leave the way clear for the technical and economical talk.

However I beleive there is an Off Topic forum...

These forums are a terrible place to talk or learn about bitcoin.

It's more of a den of "isms," whichever you want to pick out - I'd say libertarian fantasist, but that's just me. I've taken to reading the blog posts and associated comments if I want to follow current arguments, especially technical ones. Too much cruft around here.

It's a tough one to get at. People are culturally used to debt based economies, which would suffer horribly from deflation. There's just no way around it, some people won't admit to it until Bitcoins are worth $1000, and even then some will oppose it. You should have noticed that most of the hate for Bitcoin has poured in since its exponential growth triggered around early April. That's people downtalking the feasibility of the Bitcoin projec after it successfully took its first step. This kind of response is emotional.

It's not hate. It's not emotional. 90% of these critiques express admiration for specific aspects of the bitcoin implementation, and sometimes even the ideologies that are associated with it.

Nobody talked about it because nobody knew about it.
78  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Bitcoin 100+ - The Internet's Richest Bitcoiners on: May 18, 2011, 02:59:19 PM
Ahh, the richest bitcoiners!

Rich to buy all this and dollars too!

Poor to buy anything else.

Don't you think this is better left to the April 2018 issue of Forbes magazine?

79  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: more bitcoin spam email (this could become a problem) on: May 18, 2011, 02:53:09 PM
this is almost certainly the guy who bought up 200k BTC for the last couple of months. the only people who have any motive to send out spam emails like this are people who have 50k+ coins, and early adopters would have started doing this when a bitcoin was as cheap as dirt instead of right now. so it is very obvious who is doing this imo.

If you think bitcoin has a future, you are an early adopter. Also, read the thread.  Wink

I sent the original email.

You! Read this, quoted for truth because the only definite and unequivocal good thing you can do for bitcoin right now is this:

Bitcoin prices will only continue to rise if people begin using bitcoins for their every day transactions.
We should be focusing on making it easy for everyone to use bitcoins in every day life.

This will help us individually and the world as a whole.

The next time  you want to buy something,  ask the merchant to accept bitcoins.
80  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Would adoption of bitcoin as official currency by a small country validate it? on: May 18, 2011, 02:28:34 PM
The first small independent jurisdiction to adopt Bitcoin will be Kahnawake Mohawk Territory.

They have a long-established legal relationship with Canada as a sovereign nation (i.e., it would be war if Canada decided they weren't allowed to use bitcoin - Mohawks have a history of organized armed resistance against Canadian forces), they have an ass-load of computers, and they have a thriving poker business to let the bitcoin flow in and out.

You heard it here first folks. Kahnawake for bitcoin's premiere and most logical government-level adoption.
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