Online and selling.

The currency pairs are round the wrong way in the ripple client.

You just asked to buy 1 BTC for 6005 XRP. You want to do the opposite.

"Sell" 1 BTC for 600x.

Yes OpenCoin are behind ripple and develop the client, libraries, and server.

So there are 2 different kinds of BTC now? Don't be stupid, there is one BTC, and different people who say they will make good on IOUs for BTC. Bitstamp is one, TradeFortress is another.

Bitstamp makes good on it's IOUs, TradeFortress, you, do not.

Ripple works, you are untrustworthy, you send people undated cheques for them to cash at any point and take out overdrafts with them, then when the people you've sent the cheques to cash them in against the overdrafts you've taken out, you claim no responsibility.

The worst bit is, you did this with eyes wide open, in fact the first person to honor your IOUs was you yourself, you took out 10.15 BTC from me, paid it back, took it out again, incurred another 51 btc debt that is as yet unfunded, and ultimately have 10.15 btc cashed out, and 51 btc waiting to be cashed out.

I put in 10.15 BTC to prevent some poor sucker from getting scammed out of their life savings by your foolish vindictive scheme.

Q: When you set up your scheme, was it with the intention that somebody would loose some "real" BTC?

Also, how comfortable would you be if I extended that trust up to say 30,000 BTC and put in 250 bitstamp backed BTC a day in to that account? Would there be a cut off point were you wouldn't want to incur any more debt, a point where courts may get involved?

So you admit you are untrustworthy then.

redeem your ripple IOUs for real bitcoins? They are promises to pay, but who cares, you TOOK real bitcoins from me. Do you hear me talkign about the what-you-suppose-are-worthless IOUs for 50 BTC and 1 BTC you issued me? no.

This is about the fully trusted and backed BTC IOUs you took from me and gave away.

When will you be repaying your debt with me? YOU personally owe ME.

So that gives you the right to take out a 100 btc credit line with me, use over 10 BTC of it, and never repay it?

I don't care how honest you are in your other dealings, I'd expect you to be. In this dealing you have given IOUs which were NOT worthless to other users, then taken a BTC debt out with me and passed it on. When you gave that 15 BTC IOU after everything had been proved, you knew exactly what would happen, or indeed arranged it.

Argue about terms, times, whatever, you have an outstanding credit line of 10.15 BTC with me, 9.15 BTC which I demand back. When will you be paying this?

Blockchain 1BqZohTvZ6KmPFj9ThS3CeGqpm3hJYfSqo or Ripple are both fine. You know my ripple address, I've reduced my trust to you so you can't incur any more debt, since you've proved very untrustworthy in the past 24 hours, certainly when dealing with me through ripple. I cannot speak to your other services or transactions, nor do I care about them.

I obviously do see the conflict of interests between code that allows people to lend to their friends and a business which makes money from lending coins though, but perhaps you are just ripping me off to prevent other people from getting ripped off (!?). You/we demonstrated (a) how a system works, (b) that you were untrustworthy.

In this demonstration you played the part of the scammer, the untrustworthy gateway, and I played the part of the hapless victim (to prevent some newb from loosing up to 100 btc). Only after everything was proved, you took it one step further and really did take 9.15 BTC from me.

What rubbish. Do you think Ripple users are not programmers and BitCoin users? I've been programming for almost 20 years, I was in Bitcoin from the start and introduced it to Amir Taaki and Lazlo Torok, I was a very early adopter of Ripple too, and several other money related things from OpenTransactions through to PaySwarm and the surrounding standards. I understand money, debt, and of course am very familiar with David Graebers work. Most of the other Ripple users I know, also come from a similar background.

And now, some newb, TradeFortress, has been allowed to take a vendetta to the point that he can take over $1k from one of those users and get away with it, me. A complete piss take.

Exactly, I trusted TradeFortress, he proved himself very untrustworthy. He owes me 10.15 BTC.

That is the title of this thread, and the point here.

You took 10.15 btc from me, and gave it away. You owe me it, pay your debt.

You keep saying this. Where?? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206948.0

He did not say that he would not honor it. He took direct steps to ensure they were honoured.

He took out an overdraft with me, and gave 10.15 btc away to other users, 9.15 to a single user, after he new it was an IOU which was automatically honourable.

You loaned 10.15 btc from me, and gave it away. You owe me 10.15 btc.

For putting that together, it may be worth noting there was no flaw in the system, he loaned btc from users via an overdraft (trust line) and gave out to other users via an IOU. He is accountable for all his actions.

That isn't my only ripple account, that's just one I used for this, and indeed I do use ripple every day, certainly for the past couple of months, with trust lines extended to my friends, and to 2 gateways covering 3 currencies.

Where?? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=206948.0

He did not say that he would not honor it.

TradeFortress took direct actions to ensure that IOUs were honored, that is why he asked for the trust from the users, so that they would be honored, in a way that meant he personally incurred the debt with users who sent trust to him.

Only one user took 1 BTC, as a test, and offered it back to me.

*AFTER* that TradeFortress sent one of his IOUs for 15BTC to bitcointalk user aadje93 ripple address rMyHUbgreHFvvxoD5pGmg1fKRdSBHisy39 who then immediately withdrew 9.15 BTC to bitstamp.

See https://ripple.com/graph/#rH3bZsvVUhzugvcYuJVoSYCEMHkfK6wHNv

TradeFortress personally took these actions AFTER the entire thing was proved and tested, he issued a IOU to the above user so they could take the BTC he sent to them, the BTC he took from me.

It doesn't matter if he said he would not honor them, he took all the actions needed to honor them, they did get honored, and he incurred that debt with me.

Can I just remind people that I am over 10 BTC out of pocket as a direct result of TradeFortress's actions.

Only one user took 1 BTC, as a test, and offered it back to me.

*AFTER* that TradeFortress sent one of his IOUs for 15BTC to bitcointalk user aadje93 ripple address rMyHUbgreHFvvxoD5pGmg1fKRdSBHisy39 who then immediately withdrew 9.15 BTC to bitstamp.

See https://ripple.com/graph/#rH3bZsvVUhzugvcYuJVoSYCEMHkfK6wHNv

Mods: please check the IPs of this user aadje93 to see if it's the same as TradeFortress.

TradeFortress personally took these actions AFTER the entire thing was proved and tested, he issued a IOU to the above user so they could take the BTC he sent to them, the BTC he took from me.

Of course, this is exactly what would happen, and was the goal of TradeFortress all along. I allowed it to happen, it's how the system works, I allowed him to incur debt for bitstamp-backed btc, as he asked. He then gave that BTC to a random unknown user that popped up immediately after (suspicious!)

It is no security vulnerability in Ripple though, it's just an abuse of trust by TradeFortress, plain and simple.

I use ripple daily, have done for ages, never had any problem, and I only trust gateways that have my BTC and other currencies anyway, or people I know very well.

TradeFortress understood the system.

He asked me to extend trust for 100 BTC to him, I did. He then (after!) created an IOU to another user (possibly himself) for 15 BTC, knowing full well it that user could withdraw the BTC to blockchain, which in turn created 9.15 BTC debt with me.

If you take out an overdraft with a bank, then write a cheque to another person using that account, and that person cashes the cheque, who is responsible for the debt? You are. It is exactly the same, TradeFortress took a 100 BTC overdraft out with me and 20+ other users. Then wrote a cheque (and IOU) to another user, who cashed it in.

He took 10.15 BTC from me, gave 1 BTC of it to a user who offered it back to me as they did it for a test, then 9.15 BTC after that to a user who is most likely a secondary account of his own, or a complete newb who he issued the IOU to knowing full well it'd be cashed immediately, for 15 BTC not his standard 1 BTC.

I didn't loose any money to any IOUs. You asked for my trust and I gave it to you, you then broke that trust by taking my BTC, giving it to other people, then refusing to pay it back.

You personally have broken trust, you personally have taken BTC from me and given it to other people, or to yourself through a secondary account, or after knowing what would happen, immediately issued an IOU to an all but unknown user who then immediately withdrew the BTC to blockchain.

Any way you play it, you owe me 10.15 BTC, 9.15 BTC I'll call you out for, and you proved yourself VERY untrustworthy.