That's a very useful contribution, thank you!

That does indeed clear up some FUD



Alan

Call me old grumpy but if I had any bitcoins (!) I'd very much be loyal to bitcoins and only bitcoins.

No other digital currency is ever going to be really popular or useful until bitcoin succeeds (ie becomes readily recognized and accepted). All the other little copy-cat currencies are just confusing and diluting the bitcoin brand.

Heck, one of the rather silly objections to bitcoin is exactly the fact that "anyone can produce their own version", bitcoin 2.0, 3.0, diginuggets or whatever. Really that shouldn't make any difference. The existence of yen doesn't devalue the dollar for example. However right now we're trying to establish the concept and the brand, so it doesn't help to have people waving other currencies around.

I'm all for free competition, so I'm not saying 'don't offer them for sale'. I'm also for free speech, so am using it to advise others to "Not buy anything except bitocin".


Sorry about that.



A.

With that bitaddress.org thing, how is that safe?

I'm guessing that, in theory, it creates the public/private key pair in your own browser and they never get to see it (since it says 'client side').

But considering the understandable paranoia about a Windows machine touching the internet, possibly getting infected and thus compromising your .dat/.key files, surely using an online service from strangers must be bat-poo crazy dangerous?

Why should we trust them?

I'm hoping the answer is because their site is somehow open source (can a website be open source?) and we can be sure they won't see the matching pair. But they're still broadcasting that across the internet as plain text...? Or is it genuinely created in your own browser? And if so, are browsers safe anyway?

?



A.

I doubt you'd remember it, as it's around twice the length of a phone number, with letters as well as numbers.

No, you should not just keep it on your PC.

First you need at least one or two backups, such as printing it out and keeping that paper (very) safe, also perhaps as a file on a USB thumbdrive or CD etc.

I also recommend Axcrypt, if you're using Windows:

http://www.axantum.com/axcrypt/

You could use that to encrypt the key file backups.

I'm still not really positive about what I'm doing, in that I'm by no means sure how one can tell if one's PC has malware or how to transfer or buy stuff without going online, which can potentially compromise your machine. Once I really understand that I'll be a lot more confident...




A.

Thanks!

I just tried that, seems to work. Well I can rename a notepad file as test.key anyway.

Mmm....  Have set my PC to open with notepad, instead of the registry editor.

OK, still experimenting a bit but this makes a lot more sense.

I'm still not sure what a .dat file is though?




Alan

OK, I get the bit about signing with your private key, how that's the thing that confirms sending the money and such.

I'm still somewhat confused over the actual file/format of the thing.

It seems the 'key' is just a number. I get the idea it's a number from a website that makes such numbers for you, bitaddress.org.


Yet with Multibit it's a "XX.key" file. This is awkward because how do I turn a number into a .key file in order to use it with that software? There's nowhere in the software I can just type in a number, so if I DO have the number written down somewhere, what use is it?


That software only seems to be able to import or export .key files, so:

If I export I have a .key file, but I don't have a number.

If I have a number (bitaddress.org) I don't have a .key file

And it seems there's something else, called a .dat file? Is that only for the 'thick' client, because I see no sign of such a thing with Multibit?


I hope my confusion is clear!



Alan

Above someone says to backup 'wallet.dat'

Well where the heck is THAT?


 

OK, I think, thanks.

How's it going to get more mass-friendly when it's like this now though?

I had 2 'wallets' the full-size one and the Multibit thing. The full-size version took forever to finally catch up with the chain thing, then today when I opened it gave some error message and started again from the beginning. That's totally unacceptable, so I've uninstalled that version.

3 questions regarding the 'Multibit' version

1.  I can encrypt the main .exe using AxCrypt, so it cannot be run without a password. Does that help in the slightest, or not?

2. Regarding the private key/s, how does one actually use them? I tried exporting from Multibit, the resulting file seems to be a registry entry. I presume it isn't one - but what is it, exactly?

To use such a key (keys?) do you have to place that file in the folder Multibit is installed in? There doesn't seem to be any keys in the folder at present, so where exactly is the "key hole", so's to speak, for these keys?

Hang on... I can "import" keys? OK, so it's a ".key" file. But there are NO .key files in the folder at present, so what keys is/are it using NOW then?

3. How do you know which keys go with which address? I can't even see what keys it's using, so how do I know if it's the right key, or even which key?



I'm 46, been messing around with computers since I was 22, yet for some reason I'm having a really hard time understanding this system. My actual job is helping people understand technical systems and selling them on the benefits, yet here I am feeling clueless. As soon as I think I understand something it seems that's wrong, or even dangerous.

It's just paralyzing.

Thank you all for answering this guy's questions but I'm still a little confused.

So if I ever SEND any coins, ie use them as a currency as intended, then my 'wallet' and thus my keys, become 'compromised'?

That doesn't sound good at all?

I really love the concept of bitcoin but the security thing seems a headache or confusing. Is this some kind of bug or problem that we'll ever solve or is it always the case that the coins are 'secure' but we, the users, have no real security and our coins are easy to steal?

I work as a sales copywriter and when I get time I'm going to write a sales pitch for bitcoins - but I really need to understand it inside out first, and this security thing is a killer. I can't sell what I don't understand.

I get the idea, the concept, of an offline wallet for savings and a daily wallet for small transactions. But how can you do that, if by definition you need to top up that smaller wallet and/or address or whatever, and instantly that compromises the safety of the larger wallet?

The very fact you've used your private key to send money to the small wallet means that private key is no longer safe?

Well what's the point of it all then?

How are we supposed to use a system which isn't safe?

Either this is utterly ridiculous or I'm missing the point somewhere, so could someone explain what I'm missing please?


Thanks


Alan

So, can anyone help with my and coincrazy's pleas?

Just a heads up as a newbie...


I have no idea if the original post is still valid and there's no way I'm ploughing through 120 pages to catch up.

Could we please have an updated sticky, locked to prevent the 120 page thing?

Regarding the first post, if even relevant now, I admit to being somewhat confused by it. Firstly I know nothing about linux, and I certainly don't know how to install programs onto it it or set up an internet connection with it.

Frankly I found the whole thing somewhat ridiculous. I mean , Step 1, install a new operating system..  Really?

The bitcoin 'wallet' system is THAT flaky and insecure?

So as well as the huge hassle I already seem to be facing trying to get hold of bitcoins with a UK bank account, I have to install a new operating system, again, just to spend the things?

Is it just me or is this totally crazy? There's nothing 'convenient' or 'frictionless' about that.

Is there any work in progress to make a more secure wallet thingy?


 

Well I sell a writing service at $1500 a pop - and I've already decided to take part payment in BTC, say $500 worth, at whatever the rate is at the time.

So there's that?




AC

I can certainly share one of the above poster's frustrations. I decided tonight I would buy $100 worth of a coin...

It's now gone 4AM here and I've read a lot, seen some videos and poked at various buttons but nope, I still have no BTC.

It doesn't help that I'm from the UK with a UK bank account while currently living in Malaysia. That often causes problems with dollars or pounds via normal merchants, so I'm more than a little hesitant to even start, as I'm so damn convinced it's gonna go wrong anyway.

I found one place that gave nice instructions, with screenshots and everything, so signed up with yet another website (how many today??) and then found the process didn't look  the same as the how-to, so again that hesitation, the FUD.

Also tried offering my services (I'm a sales copywriter) on the 'trade' wiki thing; I give up trying to figure out how the heck you edit that. Then I read on here somewhere you have to pay, with bitcoins, to edit it? So to earn bitcoins I need to pay with bitcoins? Thanks guys, that's brilliant. I mean, why on Earth did it never occur to me that to edit a wiki I need to find some hidden payment page and pay with the currency that I don't have? It was so obvious!

Sarcasm aside, it's great of you to offer this service dude, though right now it really is gone 4AM and I really can't be asked - and I have a lot to catch up on tomorrow.

Right now I'm reminded of what a doubter called them on some article someplace "bitchcoins"....



AC