3. To "globalize" an asset, for each block a proof-of-stake calculation is run for addresses controlled by a running instance of counterpartyd (against some random function derived from BTC block hash, for instance). A "globalize" command can be called by the user to denote the asset to "submit" to the PoS function. (I'm no good at the maths, so looking to existing PoS implementations to figure out how to do this). If no asset is selected to globalize, the client automatically chooses the "first" one (in lexicographical order, for instance).
The whole idea is good, though this might imho cause that an asset lower in priority, will be never globalized. We need to think of some way to compensate for that. As I mentioned, allowing users to "pool" their "asset-globalizing" power to support projects that otherwise wouldn't hit the markets. Not in the NXT sense of "send all your money to me so I can mine PoS blocks", but something that better fits the "trust, but be trustless" model of XCP. And without requiring a centralized pool. Suggestion: now would be an opportune time to get that 'dev' branch of the github set up to test ideas such as these. Alterations to assets are definitely not ready for prime-time yet. |
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Also, I think there should be a significant fee for asset issuances, otherwise we'll get spammed with "parked" assets from people who just want to reserve nice names.
The problem with having fees for asset issuances is finding a way to keep them floating. Any fixed fee we would pick now would be too high, and then too low, if Counterparty scales as I hope it does. If anyone has a suggestion for a fee schedule that will scale well, I'd love to hear it. The current system does allow for the transference of asset ownership, so valuable names may indeed be sold for their market value when appropriate. I really don't think any "fee" structure (BTC or XCP) is in the spirit of XCP. So... Could a "proof-of-stake" method work? Pseudo-code proposal: 1. Each "address" that wants to issue an asset can call an issuance command to create a "local" asset (just like right now, except that others can't view this asset). All existing assets are converted to local assets (not sure how to handle this for assets that have already been distributed, such as TEST) 2. Add in "global" as a property for an asset. A "global" asset is one that is visible to the network at large (orders, send, etc work). A local asset is one that exists only in a local instance of counterpartyd (the user's computer). 3. To "globalize" an asset, for each block a proof-of-stake calculation is run for addresses controlled by a running instance of counterpartyd (against some random function derived from BTC block hash, for instance). A "globalize" command can be called by the user to denote the asset to "submit" to the PoS function. (I'm no good at the maths, so looking to existing PoS implementations to figure out how to do this). If no asset is selected to globalize, the client automatically chooses the "first" one (in lexicographical order, for instance). 4. If successful, the asset and details are published to the network at large, and other commands (orders, sending, viewing asset on other counterpartyd clients) works. 5. In case that two local assets from two different users are submitted to "globalize", the "winning" one is the one that "mines" the PoS block first. Things to figure out: 1. Should counterpartyd clients that aren't actively "globalizing" an asset / or don't have a valid asset to globalize try to mine PoS blocks? If so, what should they do? 2. What happens to existing assets? (see 1) 3. What is the PoS function? 4. What is the target asset "creation rate"? What is the retargeting? 5. Can users elect to globalize assets other than their own? This can lead to some very interesting possibilities, such as an "XCP pool" that votes on worthy projects to "IPO", so to speak. Summary: Proof-of-stake does not have to translate into inflation of the base currency. It can be used for "other" purposes as well (in the spirit of DACs). |
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Wow, people have been busy with opportunistic asset name creation. Almost feels like the old Web 1.0 days of domain squatting...
Yea  But unlike domain names you have to transfer your private key over. And I doubt that anyone is going to trust someone to just hand over the private keys without keeping a copy. Lolz... Well, lets see how this plays out. Hey, that's what "send" is for .... though you'd have to issue the maximum permissible amount and send that to actually transfer ownership. Come to think of it though, can devs implement a way to transfer "issuance privileges" so that the above doesn't have to be done? |
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Who exactly owns asset DOGE? I seem to duking it out with someone who issued later, but in a proper amount. Ownership has changed hands 3-4 times already with different counterpartyd versions.
And is it just me or can no asset start with the letter "A"?
... you're going to need a bigger list. Lol.
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Got it up and running, but some links don't work and I don't have a receive tab. I'm assuming because a public version isn't available yet?  |
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Wow, people have been busy with opportunistic asset name creation. Almost feels like the old Web 1.0 days of domain squatting...
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Interesting concept - is there any update on approximately when the last day for burning will be?
I get (as of now): (283810-281072) * 9.66 minutes from now (24-hour block time according to blockchain.info): 6:28:55 am CST | Wednesday, February 5, 2014 |
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Got Python 3.2 and hopefully everything installed, let's see how this goes. Thanks xnova and all the other devs for their recent work and long hours on this. Note I think the module is appdirs and not app sdirs. Took an error message to get the right one. (Everything except apsw is available by PIP, btw). |
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Please prove your affiliation w/ the github project.
If not, then /thread.
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(also NXT ipo was too short and invisible and maybe was even closed early, that's why price shot up afterwards. Had they waited long enough with high exposure to and broad discussion by the public, price would've been "exactly right" after ipo)
Do you mean it could/should have also been 0.0001 NXT/BTC? The NXT launch wasn't invisible, not sure why people think that. Also, the goal of Nxt launch wasn't too have some Bitcoin Conference mass marketing IPO extravaganza. It was to get a working POS system launched and let the community take over. Yet many people have misconceptions about it being a scam coin. To me, a scam coin is one that draws hundreds/thousands of btc investment in a pre-sale and then caters to ASIC miners. It wasn't invisible, but it was cut short with no advance notice to prevent further dilution of existing investment. A week later, they started selling NXT at a 4762% markup (yes, that's over 47X original purchase price). NXT is number 2 on the scamcoin poll, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361286.0 . "They" you are referring to were people who took a risk to donate to an unknown developer's project, regular forum members like you and me, the founder didn't sell a thing, in fact, he has only given away millions of Nxt to developers. The markup you are talking about is still more than 100x cheaper than Ethereum IPO price. I bought 1M nxt for 1BTC. Your reference to the scamcoin poll makes you look ignorant, you and I both know those are envy polls. Where is Ethereum on that list? BCNext ended the Nxt IPO early because he didn't want to collect hundreds of BTC. You're partially correct - BCNext (and/or come-from-beyond) didn't want to collect more BTC, maybe even hundreds of BTC, which would reduce their percentages of the distribution. If they had just announced the early close because they collected enough BTC, they probably would not have collected much over 5 or 10 more BTC since it was a high risk investment and not have caused animosity among those interested but not yet invested. People tend to focus on price per share in a pre-sale, but what they should really look at is the price for a given percentage of the total pre-sale. If the shares are PoW mined, then the net rate of issuance of new shares is also a factor. How much are you investing? It seems to me that the more people invest, the worse off for everyone in terms of ROI, am I correct? It would appear so; however don't disregard network effects. An increase of n BTCs invested might dilute the stake linearily, but assuming non worst-case allocation of those coins (in other words, the investments come from new members), increase the exposure of the coin exponentially. |
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... divide the IPO price by 1000 and multiply every other number by 1000. There, the coin is now "cheap". Better yet, denominate everything in terms of "wei" -- "wow, I can have a quadrillion coins for a satoshi? Deal!"
I'm still puzzled as to why the initial offering price is at all important here.
Because it's a POW coin. People want to know if it makes more sense to buy it or mine it. Absolutely doesn't matter. Mining output scales as the amount of initial issued currency. The only thing that matters is how much BTC is invested in the first place, not what denomination that BTC is converted to. Now if mining output did not depend linearily on the amount of issued currency (if it were 50 coins/block like BTC, for instance), then there would be a difference, and your point would be correct. Thus if economic rational theory is correct, the price per ether (whatever it is - again, it's not important) should be the same during the IPO period (if sufficiently long - see NXT for a counterexample), right after the IPO period, and at the start of mining, assuming mining/market starts instantaneously after the conclusion of the IPO. |
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It seems that python 3.3 64-bit on windows doesn't work with apsw (after extensive searching on the apsw google group). Should I downgrade to 3.2 or wait for something to be done?
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Is there a new dependency? If so, where do I find it?
C:\counterpartyd>python counterpartyd.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "counterpartyd.py", line 11, in <module>
import apsw
ImportError: No module named 'apsw'
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... divide the IPO price by 1000 and multiply every other number by 1000. There, the coin is now "cheap". Better yet, denominate everything in terms of "wei" -- "wow, I can have a quadrillion coins for a satoshi? Deal!"
I'm still puzzled as to why the initial offering price is at all important here.
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I rebuilt the database and catched up with the last block. When trying to burn BTC I get this error now: Traceback (most recent call last):
File "./counterpartyd.py", line 529, in <module>
json_print(bitcoin.transmit(unsigned_tx_hex, unsigned=args.unsigned))
File "/Users/Max/counterpartyd/lib/bitcoin.py", line 298, in transmit
if ask and not is_api:
NameError: global name 'is_api' is not defined Same error occurs when attempting to issue. |
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I just had another thought (or way to look at my eth investment decision personally): If my assumption (argued 3 posts above) that IPO price will be "exactly right" holds, it doesn't matter from my individual perspective wether I invest in the IPO phase or buy ETH on the market right after it ends. The only difference this makes is where my invested BTC go. In the former case they go to the ethereum development fund, in the latter they go to a genesis investor. So if some people here are envious toward the founders getting control over too much money, they can just buy ETH on the market after the ipo instead of investing during the ipo phase. I'm guessing I'll do a little bit of everything regarding investing into ethereum: - invest in ipo phase
- buy on market after ipo phase
- mine
side-note: This is not your average alt-coin and everything I looked at and thought about regarding ethereum so far is well thought-through. This thing is filled with innovation and I think it can provide an exceedingly fertile ground for further innovation and positive change in our world. I'll be heavily investing in ETH, hadn't really thought of mining 'til now. Any thoughts on an optimal rig for ETH? Your investment analysis is very informative, by the way. VPSes with a lot of memory, or GPUs with a LOT of memory (hundreds of GB). Come to think of it, amazon EC2 instances may be almost ideal (good amount of CPU power, plenty of RAM, etc) According to the wiki, GPU power hardly matters -- what matters is how much memory you can fit on your board. Most consumer grade equipment caps out at 64 or 128GB (I don't imagine even enthusiasts having more than 32GB on their computers, which I do have) |
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Sorry guys, looks I broke something again .... :'(
Apparently 100,000,000,000 is too big of a number for coins.
"I was just trying to recreate DOGE .... *slinks away*"
(Wow, how many bugfixes did I cause in github today? lol)
Still .. better that these things happen now than in the future, where things will seriously break.
Note: I would suggest a max cap, because no matter what datatype you use, someone could simply issue 999999999999999999999999999.... coins as an attack.
I haven't tested non-alphanumeric characters in the asset name yet -- is there support for that or will I crash something again?
Absolutely. Keep 'em comin'. I fixed the code so that it will run, but this same problem may exist elsewhere, so hold off on re-creating the problem for another twenty-four hours, maybe. Asset names should only be upper-case alphabetic, but the code should catch all violations of that rule. Are there any other restrictions to asset names? I ran into: raise exceptions.AssetError('Bad asset name.') Besides the uppercase is there a minimum amount/limit on characters or certain asset names that are not valid like BTC, EUR, XAU,... No less than 4 and no more than ... ??? upper case characters. (the actual restrictions are based on conversion of the string into an int, so that's why something like "AAAAA" doesn't work, and why there is no "max length".) |
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This is the true revolutionary second generation in cryptocurrencies. I encourage everyone to read the white paper.
Posted From bitcointalk.org Android App
link to whitepaper? 1st page? http://ethereum.org/ethereum.html |
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Been searching this thread with no luck, has anyone used XCP to create a user currency/asset yet? I am very interested to know ...
There are plenty, and it's absolutely trivial to do: http://blockscan.com/asset.aspxYou can grab some TEST on the market if you like, or try to issue your own. |
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