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Hey, I've seen this idea tossed around before and I think it would be a great success if coded properly.
One necessary part of the project is being able to verify that the work was actually done rather than being faked.
We've got to be able to convince academics and businesses that Bitwrk simulations are just as good as a local supercomputer.
Bitcoin micropayments would make the "miners" have to have very little faith in the buyers so miner confidence is not likely to be an issue. We also want to make sure that malicious code can't be run through the program by limiting the types of operations that the program can do. Also if the results of the simulations could be obscured in a safe way from the person doing them it would give confidence to computing time buyers that their work would not be stolen. Encryption of output data as well as a way of verifying that a simulation was done rather than faked are necessary.
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+1, but who cares?
How about the people who you're asking to send you money blindly? They probably should care. This is a crap idea so you have to try and make it look like its the best thing since sliced bread to ignite people's greed. You've been astroturfing to make it seem like it's a "risky investment" rather than just sending you cash for nothing. As bvt said a lot of things add up to make your project total shit. (I've already listed them) |
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Spiral_mind, shut up please. Just because something uses the kickstarter model instead of the bitcoin or opencoin model does not make it a scam. There have been hundreds of projects in the development forum here that have asked for money before having source code available for inspection. JR's identity is public, so it is highly unlikely he is scamming.
I think his project has major flaws and a bunch of his ideas will never work. Why don't you contribute to the discussion instead of screaming scam about something that is clearly not a scam?
You generate "coins" by giving him money directly. That's his project idea. Anyone who doesn't think this is a scam isn't thinking it through. As you said, it will never work yet he's asking for money RIGHT NOW QUICK SEND IT. if you think his idea is not worth exploring click here There's no way in hell I'm clicking your random fucking links. I give it 99% chance odds that's some malware he's trying to infect people with. Here's a list of his (very likely) sockpuppets: AdamstgBit Ripper234 Notme hmmstrange cbeast With both AdamstgBit and Ripper234 he's been asking pre-scripted questions and answering them himself from another account to give the appearance of legitimacy. One thing they never ask about is why the money has to go directly into his account. They focus on the economics instead because he knows that most people will get lost in something that complicated. View their post history yourself if you don't believe me. The vast majority of their posts are one line and add nothing to the conversation. It's also possible these accounts were legit at one point and then were purchased. Dacoinminister has over 120k in Bitcoins in his account so buying a few would be a trivial task. |
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Here's an exchange that was just deleted in his other thread. He keeps dodging all the substantial questions such as "why are you the only one who can make mastercoins if you plan to release the source code eventually? Why does the money go directly into your account (other than "I deserve it !!"). Now someone's sent 1,222 Bitcoins into his stupid "exodus address". My guess is that these are his own funds that he's transferred to make it seem as there are actual investors into his scam.
he answered that question
hes using the funds to work on the project.
at 1million $ worth of bitcoin he quits his day job and makes this project his lifes work
LOL. So once everyone sends you a million dollars then you'll actually devote your time to the project(you say). What a fucking total joke. I think it more likely that you just take off with whatever people are stupid enough to send you. It's silly that he even allows himself to buy "mastercoins". Talk about rigging the system from the get-go, if it even is a real project. This whole thing seems rushed and questionable, at best.
He's able to buy these coins at -ZERO- risk while everyone else risks losing their entire investment for the same potential reward.
It's quite clear he's purely financially motivated and not interested in a fair and properly decentralized model.
I suggest ignoring this one and wait for something better and less shady. Quoted for truth |
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Here's some of the posts he's deleted reposted for your viewing pleasure: (this one's from his sockpuppet Adam) you really don't get it? he can take off with the coins it won't matter he will have left us with his idea and we can implement it ourselves. we'll get our MasterCoins one way or another. the coins are going to his address because he deserves them you made your point quite clear over and over, thank you. now, good day!
He can take off with the coins and it won't matter? What about releasing the source code? What about all the people whose money he would have stolen?
The idea alone is worth everyone sending him Bitcoins in advance in exchange for nothing? Actually it does matter if you steal people's coins.
He (or should I say you?) deserves them simply for writing a paper that says he should get the coins?
You still haven't answered my question. That's why I keep posting it. Tell us what will keep you honest and I'll stop.
Increasing supply to decrease price is the easy part. Decreasing supply to increase price is the impossible part.
Indeed even if you ignore the glaring issue with sending cash in exchange for nothing but a promise with no source code his economics are way off base. However that's totally irrelevant until the creator addresses the nigerian prince scheme he's trying to sockpuppet down people's throats. Willet chose a valid way to bootstrap his idea. It is not identical to the way Satoshi bootstrapped his idea, but as we all know Satoshi made quite a profit nonetheless. Ripple/OpenCoin also choose a different way to bootstrap their idea, and as far as I know it's working well (they got investments from Google and Peter Thiel for one). I believe Colored Coins was left in relative stagnation in the last year precisely because it lacked a good bootstrapping model that would pay for the cost of development (although it is seeing some increased usage today). I summarized my thoughts on the matter on a blog post I just wrote about MasterCoin.
Having everyone send their money to the creator's personal address is not bootstrapping.
Both Ripple and Bitcoin gave out their coins for free to bootstrap their projects. Since so many people had them they began using them as money and they became valuable. This "project" is totally different in that it asks for money to be sent directly to the creator. This will not give it value in and of itself. This does nothing to "bootstrap". You're actually doing the exact opposite of what Bitcoin and Ripple did to bootstrap themselves.
How convenient that you posted a link to a blog post about how Mastercoin is "the new high yield investment". This whole thing stinks of a scam so hard.
Your proposal has so many flaws that you've refused to answer time and time again, deleting posts instead. That's a sure sign of a scammer, self moderate the thread to create an appearance of positivity. First of all we have to send Bitcoins directly into your pocket in order to get "master coins". That's the biggest one. You still haven't addressed that concern.
The other is that you don't understand how economics works. You can't maintain a fixed asset price against the market's wishes without losing money. You're proposing to act as a central bank to a fundamentally flawed system just because you know you'll be able to get a few suckers to give you real money.
There's absolutely nothing that will ever make Mastercoins valuable within your proposal. Just because people spent money on an asset doesn't guarantee that what they buy with it will be worth anything. You're making no goals, no guarantees, and still haven't even proved you are who you say you are.
Nobody should be treating this as legitimate.
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Spiral_mind, shut up please. Just because something uses the kickstarter model instead of the bitcoin or opencoin model does not make it a scam. There have been hundreds of projects in the development forum here that have asked for money before having source code available for inspection. JR's identity is public, so it is highly unlikely he is scamming.
I think his project has major flaws and a bunch of his ideas will never work. Why don't you contribute to the discussion instead of screaming scam about something that is clearly not a scam?
You generate "coins" by giving him money directly. That's his project idea. Anyone who doesn't think this is a scam isn't thinking it through. As you said, it will never work yet he's asking for money RIGHT NOW QUICK SEND IT. |
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After all the scams in Bitcoinland, I understand the paranoia. You'll need more evidence this is a scam rather than a risky investment in not another currency, but a new type of client. Look at ASICs, Trezor, and Bitcoin Magazine to name a few that had donated seed money. We'll see how the devs approach this. I suspect details will be addressed soon enough.
You can't just ask people to have faith in you. You have to provide them some reason to trust you. So far you've provided none and asked for cash upfront in exchange for NOTHING. SCAM Whom are you addressing? The person in question is not entertaining this thread. I am only here because I will not add to the noise in his thread. If your only complaint is that you have evidence it is a scam, then you should be appealing to the moderators or police authorities. Dacoinminister you used the phrase "noise in the thread" to defend your deletion of my critical posts in the original thread. Your phrasing reveals more than you think. As far as evidence goes, when you propose that people should send you their money before you've made anything the burden of proof is upon you alone. Explain how this project ISN'T a scam please. |
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After all the scams in Bitcoinland, I understand the paranoia. You'll need more evidence this is a scam rather than a risky investment in not another currency, but a new type of client. Look at ASICs, Trezor, and Bitcoin Magazine to name a few that had donated seed money. We'll see how the devs approach this. I suspect details will be addressed soon enough.
You can't just ask people to have faith in you. You have to provide them some reason to trust you. So far you've provided none and asked for cash upfront in exchange for NOTHING. SCAM |
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Spiral, you made no points to debate that have not been addressed. Moderating to reduce noise is fine. Your thread will be entertained by concerned folks *if* there are valid discussion points. It's a little early to accuse this of being a scam. I would suggest changing your alert to something less dramatic unless of course you are a sock puppet yourself.
Do you even know what a sock puppet is? It means you've got multiple accounts posting as if they were different people. They're used to create a fake appearance of support or obscure a discussion. You've dismissed the concern about money being sent to an address the creator controls before he has developed anything again. What do you think about that? Let me guess its a "risky investment". No. It's not an investment. It's sending this guy money for promises and nothing even as good as kickstarter or the credit card companies to help you out. I agree with you that caution is warranted with sending money. I don't even recommend buying Bitcoin with money you can't afford to lose. Do you have any reason to believe that his 'fake address' scheme of tracking transactions won't work? Good job glossing over the fact that he is currently accepting money into an account without releasing any source code. You have no way to take possession of your "mastercoins" even if he says you have them. This isn't like investing in an alt-coin. It's not risky because it's an online transaction. It's not about whether or not you can "afford to lose the money" (you keep saying that a lot). It's risky because you're sending money directly to a pseudonymous user for nothing but a promise of more money in the future. Aka Nigerian prince scam. The fake address scheme is irrelevant until you explain what is stopping the owner of the "Exodus address" from simply keeping the Bitcoins and walking away. So you are claiming that he is not the panelist at the San Jose convention sitting next to Jeff Garzik. Fair enough. Let's investigate this. If he really is that guy it's still a scammy proposal. He gives no guarantees or goals for his project, releases no source, yet expects cash now. I just don't think someone would be stupid enough to post their real identity when running a scam like this. You never know though, he might think he's smarter than everyone else, criminals often do. In the other thread you posted "if he can convince people to send him the coins he deserves them". Total sociopathic thinking there. that was me... and i meant: we know the risks of sending money to random avatars on the internet. its our risk to take. Yes I'm talking to you dacoinminister, Sock Puppeteer General, Sir! You keep acting like this is the same as buying anything for Bitcoin when in fact this is very much different. You ask for money now and offer nothing but cheap words and a pseudonym in return. |
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Spiral, you made no points to debate that have not been addressed. Moderating to reduce noise is fine. Your thread will be entertained by concerned folks *if* there are valid discussion points. It's a little early to accuse this of being a scam. I would suggest changing your alert to something less dramatic unless of course you are a sock puppet yourself.
Do you even know what a sock puppet is? It means you've got multiple accounts posting as if they were different people. They're used to create a fake appearance of support or obscure a discussion. You've dismissed the concern about money being sent to an address the creator controls before he has developed anything again. What do you think about that? Let me guess its a "risky investment". No. It's not an investment. It's sending this guy money for promises and nothing even as good as kickstarter or the credit card companies to help you out. I agree with you that caution is warranted with sending money. I don't even recommend buying Bitcoin with money you can't afford to lose. Do you have any reason to believe that his 'fake address' scheme of tracking transactions won't work? Good job glossing over the fact that he is currently accepting money into an account without releasing any source code. You have no way to take possession of your "mastercoins" even if he says you have them. This isn't like investing in an alt-coin. It's not risky because it's an online transaction. It's not about whether or not you can "afford to lose the money" (you keep saying that a lot). It's risky because you're sending money directly to a pseudonymous user for nothing but a promise of more money in the future. Aka Nigerian prince scam. The fake address scheme is irrelevant until you explain what is stopping the owner of the "Exodus address" from simply keeping the Bitcoins and walking away. So you are claiming that he is not the panelist at the San Jose convention sitting next to Jeff Garzik. Fair enough. Let's investigate this. If he really is that guy it's still a scammy proposal. He gives no guarantees or goals for his project, releases no source, yet expects cash now. I just don't think someone would be stupid enough to post their real identity when running a scam like this. You never know though, he might think he's smarter than everyone else, criminals often do. In the other thread you posted "if he can convince people to send him the coins he deserves them". Total sociopathic thinking there. |
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Spiral, you made no points to debate that have not been addressed. Moderating to reduce noise is fine. Your thread will be entertained by concerned folks *if* there are valid discussion points. It's a little early to accuse this of being a scam. I would suggest changing your alert to something less dramatic unless of course you are a sock puppet yourself.
Do you even know what a sock puppet is? It means you've got multiple accounts posting as if they were different people. They're used to create a fake appearance of support or obscure a discussion. You've dismissed the concern about money being sent to an address the creator controls before he has developed anything again. What do you think about that? Let me guess its a "risky investment". No. It's not an investment. It's sending this guy money for promises and nothing even as good as kickstarter or the credit card companies to help you out. I agree with you that caution is warranted with sending money. I don't even recommend buying Bitcoin with money you can't afford to lose. Do you have any reason to believe that his 'fake address' scheme of tracking transactions won't work? Good job glossing over the fact that he is currently accepting money into an account without releasing any source code. You have no way to take possession of your "mastercoins" even if he says you have them. This isn't like investing in an alt-coin. It's not risky because it's an online transaction. It's not about whether or not you can "afford to lose the money" (you keep saying that a lot). It's risky because you're sending money directly to a pseudonymous user for nothing but a promise of more money in the future. Aka Nigerian prince scam. The fake address scheme is irrelevant until you explain what is stopping the owner of the "Exodus address" from simply keeping the Bitcoins and walking away. |
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Spiral, you made no points to debate that have not been addressed. Moderating to reduce noise is fine. Your thread will be entertained by concerned folks *if* there are valid discussion points. It's a little early to accuse this of being a scam. I would suggest changing your alert to something less dramatic unless of course you are a sock puppet yourself.
Do you even know what a sock puppet is? It means you've got multiple accounts posting as if they were different people. They're used to create a fake appearance of support or obscure a discussion. You've dismissed the concern about money being sent to an address the creator controls before he has developed anything again. What do you think about that? Let me guess its a "risky investment". No. It's not an investment. It's sending this guy money for promises and nothing even as good as kickstarter or the credit card companies to help you out. |
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oh come on i'm not a sock puppet! or am i?  mind blow! Well it's impossible to prove. So that's why I keep asking dacoinminister or anyone else who thinks its such a great idea to debate the points that I've raised rather than attack me personally or just say something blandly positive about mastercoin being an investment. Even calling it an investment at all is using very loaded language considering what you're proposing (sending money blindly to an account in exchange for a promise of future money). Let's bring some substance to this debate. What's going to keep this guy honest at all? By sending him your coins you don't even really own anything and he hasn't promised that he will even complete the project or set a goal. He linked a LinkedIn account but anyone could link anyone's LinkedIn account so that is meaningless. He's nothing more than a forum identity and those are bought and sold and faked easily. Now all the accounts he's posted with are posting one line responses. Looks great man nice defense there. Tell me how you're not a nigerian prince scam and I'll stop posting. |
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Are you guys really all my sock puppets?? Dang, I wish I had known - I could have used you a lot of times in the past!
Interesting how many single line posts that don't add anything to the discussion the people who say positive things about Mastercoin have. If you use a VPN we'd never really be able to know for sure they were your sockpuppets, but from the post history on all of these accounts it definitely appears to be an astroturfing operation. I'm sure you figured that if enough hero members said it sounded worthwhile you'd get plenty of noobs with coins to send them right to you. Accounts are bought and sold all the time on this forum, and your member status is determined only by your number of posts making it easy to fake yourself. I thought you were going offline for a while? You must have gotten tired of posting on your sock puppets, or couldn't stand seeing my reply in your other thread linger so long. I'm sure you'll delete it and make me re-post it. Feel free to tell everyone what is going to keep you honest besides the hypothetical devaluation of your promise money. |
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spiral_mind thanks for the warning, but i think your wrong.
first, every Mastercoin TX will recorded on the block chain so it wont be hard to see if he starts creating them out of thin air.
second, the protocol he plans on implementing will be open-source, i'll read the source code, and not this conspiracy theory -There is currently no source code yet he's asking for money right now in exchange for promises alone -It's not a conspiracy theory, this is what the creator has said about his project -Putting messages on the blockchain is useless unless someone actually values those messages somehow. Since there's nothing keeping the creator honest besides fear that his fake money will be devalued these blockchain records are useless. He'll just run off with his real money (Bitcoins) and post some lame message about how "he can't afford to keep developing since he's too poor" Mastercoin ( if implemented like he said he would ) will offer perfect information to all participants at all times.
It should put ripple to shame.
And now it's pretty obvious this is a sock puppet account as well. You were one of the only people in the other thread to post positively about it. Is it really so unlikely that someone would create a few hero member sockpuppets in order to scam people out of a lot of money? Nope it's not unlikely at all. |
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This seems like an investment risk more than a scam.
His "coin" is similar to ripple, whoever buys in will probably know the risk of a single-minted close-source altcoin. Let it be.
He's asking for money before anything has actually been created. Ripple gave out free ripples and let people voluntarily assign them value. This is nothing like ripple. It's a scam. It's not a "risky investment" it's him asking for cash money right now in exchange for promises of future money. It's a nigerian prince scheme masquerading as an alt-coin. |
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I disapprove of spiral_mind and this thread.
Another sock puppet account of dacoinminister? Any particular reason you disapprove of me? Let me guess. Because I exposed your bullshit before you had very many people send you coins at all. Impressive how many "hero member" sock puppets you've accumulated. That's not very difficult though considering you've been planning this scam for a long time and "hero member" status is based only upon number of posts. Care to share any thoughts as to why I'm wrong? |
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So I've been posting in "dacoinminister"'s thread about "Mastercoin". He asks people to send him coins directly in exchange for "1000 mastercoins" but there's currently no client and no source code. Once he gets "enough money to develop full time" he'll get around to making those he says. Could this be any more obvious of a scam? -He controls the creation of "mastercoins" -You send him Bitcoins directly in exchange for a promise of future "mastercoins" -He then develops the project at his own pleasure with no way to keep him honest -Nothing stopping him from running with your Bitcoins or making as many mastercoins as he wants -He deletes any posts criticizing his project YOU CAN'T MAKE A VIABLE ALT COIN BASED UPON CLOSED SOURCE AND GIVING ONE GUY A BUNCH OF MONEY Can you say nigerian prince scam? He deleted the following post over 10 times rather than reply to it: This is a scam. He keeps deleting my posts hoping someone else will send money to his scam. "@dacoinminster: In order to succeed as an open source project leader, you will need to keep this in mind: http://youtu.be/ZSFDm3UYkeE" ITS NOT OPEN SOURCE. There is no source code. There are no "mastercoins". He will take your money and run because there's NOTHING keeping him honest. Unfortunately, Reddit remains (mostly) a swirling cesspool of ignorance. I think what you really meant to say is you're butthurt because I exposed your bullshit on Reddit and you can't self moderate the thread. I'm sorry you have lost faith in the basic decency of most people. You are right there is risk in sending him money, but people have the right to spend their money how they want. Your concerns have been voiced (he left my quote of you), and you are derailing productive discussion. We shouldn't have to have faith in the creator if the protocol is sound. We didn't have to have faith in Satoshi Nakamoto or buy Bitcoins from him. The rules of the system create the system. He's set this system up to let him cheat as much as he wants with nothing keeping him honest so that's what is going to happen. This is a fatal flaw with the "project" not a "concern". He's going to keep deleting this post and I'm going to keep posting it. If he had a valid answer to any of these criticisms he'd reply instead of deleting. SCAM. STAY AWAY. Mods please move his post to the "scams" section. Link to original (SCAM don't send him coins): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.0 |
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Other than moving speculation out of the blockchain, and maybe some press, there's not much value added.
I hope they make some $$ but since they are adding zero BTC merchants, what does it add to the BTC economy. It isn't even the first Bitcoin ETP/ETF
The value added to Bitcoin from this ETF comes from opening the market to many more potential buyers. The current Bitcoin exchanges are exceedingly bad at what they do and scare more conventional investors away. The price of BTC goes up when more people want to buy it than sell it at any given price point. There are a ton of people who are not tech savvy but would love to make money. If those people are enabled to buy rather than being scared off by technical hurdles Bitcoin would be much more valuable. Exchanges are going to be for the exceedingly tech savvy people who make up Bitcoin's current community and really want to hold onto their own coins. That's going to make this fund the market's primary price setter. Personally I see another bubble an order of magnitude bigger than the spring 2013 bubble occurring after this ETF becomes available. I'm not necessarily saying the ETF's creation itself will cause a bubble just that it makes the next bubble (which I see as inevitable unless BTC's protocol is destroyed) potentially much bigger than without the ETF available. Think about the public's reaction to the media hype this spring and imagine if there was a safe and easy way for everyone who heard Bitcoin was "the next big thing" to buy it. If this year and 2011 are any indication then bubbles potentially increase the baseline value of Bitcoin simply through the public exposure each spike creates (though we will see where the baseline for this bubble finally settles). |
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Humans, I would get rid of those...
Definitely blaming humans as well |
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