SHIFT vs Substratum - battle to decentralize the web

[22justin]

subscrotum is a scam. Shift and Maidsafe are the only two legit decentralized web projects. both fantastic. Maid much more ambitious, Shift further along

[Gooose2045]

Can you tell me where to find information on shifts leadership and team? This is important and they seem like they’re in the shadows.  Kinda shifty.

[battle.net]

Can you tell me where to find information on shifts leadership and team? This is important and they seem like they’re in the shadows.  Kinda shifty.

I heard they don't like to do that so that nobody can know all the other crypto currency projects they are working on, like a coin mill.

The last one that went public with his information, Jan, did exactly this and the price tanked.

[TheHas]

Can you tell me where to find information on shifts leadership and team? This is important and they seem like they’re in the shadows.  Kinda shifty.

I heard they don't like to do that so that nobody can know all the other crypto currency projects they are working on, like a coin mill.

The last one that went public with his information, Jan, did exactly this and the price tanked.

I think having some knowledge of who the team is can be pretty important - might be one of the reasons that substratum is doing well since you know who is on the team, they do interviews and are generally trying to be seen.

I remember seeing a poll recently on this forum about what people consider when investing in an ico, and over half selected 'strength of team' as the main thing in choosing where to invest.

Might not work for all coins, particularly ones focused on privacy, but it can still put people in the community off from investing.

[lmk99]

Can you tell me where to find information on shifts leadership and team? This is important and they seem like they’re in the shadows.  Kinda shifty.

I heard they don't like to do that so that nobody can know all the other crypto currency projects they are working on, like a coin mill.

The last one that went public with his information, Jan, did exactly this and the price tanked.

That seems quite unfair. The lead dev of Shift, Ralf, is not working on anything else as far as I know, although they collaborate with Lisk sometimes since Shift is a Lisk fork. Jan has never been part of the Shift team since he left to create his own fork clones that he ICO'd and my understanding is that the Shift team strongly disapproved of this behavior. As far as a desire for privacy is concerned, I respect that; and while I do understand their privacy may deter investment before there's proven development progress in the form of a working prototype, I believe that when the team's progress is proven with the public launch of the Phantom dApp prototype on the testnet before the end of this month, their privacy will not matter anymore: ultimately what matters is delivering on the project with something valuable.

[battle.net]

Can you tell me where to find information on shifts leadership and team? This is important and they seem like they’re in the shadows.  Kinda shifty.

I heard they don't like to do that so that nobody can know all the other crypto currency projects they are working on, like a coin mill.

The last one that went public with his information, Jan, did exactly this and the price tanked.

That seems quite unfair. The lead dev of Shift, Ralf, is not working on anything else as far as I know, although they collaborate with Lisk sometimes since Shift is a Lisk fork. Jan has never been part of the Shift team since he left to create his own fork clones that he ICO'd and my understanding is that the Shift team strongly disapproved of this behavior. As far as a desire for privacy is concerned, I respect that; and while I do understand their privacy may deter investment before there's proven development progress in the form of a working prototype, I believe that when the team's progress is proven with the public launch of the Phantom dApp prototype on the testnet before the end of this month, their privacy will not matter anymore: ultimately what matters is delivering on the project with something valuable.

Unfair? Please. It's just speculation that he isn't working on anything else. Has anyone thought to ask him when his work contract runs out? Usually they buy these people on a yearly basis to run and operate these coin mills along with the NDA and everything.

Privacy is fine but evasiveness isn't. Why is shift the only crypto hiding behind a glass wall like ryver? Ever notice you don't see these people literally anywhere else?

The dodginess is pretty unparalleled. My money is on the hedge that these people haven't done a damn thing besides string an update or two into GitHub for months and they're just riding out their contract.

Soon as 2018 hits they're gonna drop this like a rock and ICO the whole thing. The real development probably left pre-Jan anyways.

That or the whole things fabricated to make it look like substratum has some competition.

[foggywhite007]

How can you compare SHIFT. SHIFT great project which deserves to be in the top 100. Soon will be a basic start and I'm sure the price will fly up. Really like the team it is the exact same as LISK adds that faith in the project. I'm in coins shift and I am sure in 2018 will be strong growth

[lmk99]

Unfair? Please. It's just speculation that he isn't working on anything else. Has anyone thought to ask him when his work contract runs out? Usually they buy these people on a yearly basis to run and operate these coin mills along with the NDA and everything.

Privacy is fine but evasiveness isn't. Why is shift the only crypto hiding behind a glass wall like ryver? Ever notice you don't see these people literally anywhere else?

The dodginess is pretty unparalleled. My money is on the hedge that these people haven't done a damn thing besides string an update or two into GitHub for months and they're just riding out their contract.

Soon as 2018 hits they're gonna drop this like a rock and ICO the whole thing. The real development probably left pre-Jan anyways.

That or the whole things fabricated to make it look like substratum has some competition.

It's easy to join the Ryver, there's no wall against going in and asking the team questions including Ralf himself. I don't understand what you mean by a contract running out. There's no CEO or company to have a contract with, it's an open source community project (they push from the private repo to Github at infrequent intervals so that competitor copying of the most current development is avoided). The fact that you think a contract is involved shows how little you know about the project. I am strongly convinced that Ralf has stuck by this project all this time because he has the skill and grit to finish it, and it will be extremely valuable. They're in this for the long haul, not for a cash grab, which is why they have not ICO'd.

[fromholland]

subscrotum is a scam. Shift and Maidsafe are the only two legit decentralized web projects. both fantastic. Maid much more ambitious, Shift further along

Which facts do you base this statement on?

[battle.net]

Unfair? Please. It's just speculation that he isn't working on anything else. Has anyone thought to ask him when his work contract runs out? Usually they buy these people on a yearly basis to run and operate these coin mills along with the NDA and everything.

Privacy is fine but evasiveness isn't. Why is shift the only crypto hiding behind a glass wall like ryver? Ever notice you don't see these people literally anywhere else?

The dodginess is pretty unparalleled. My money is on the hedge that these people haven't done a damn thing besides string an update or two into GitHub for months and they're just riding out their contract.

Soon as 2018 hits they're gonna drop this like a rock and ICO the whole thing. The real development probably left pre-Jan anyways.

That or the whole things fabricated to make it look like substratum has some competition.

It's easy to join the Ryver, there's no wall against going in and asking the team questions including Ralf himself. I don't understand what you mean by a contract running out. There's no CEO or company to have a contract with, it's an open source community project (they push from the private repo to Github at infrequent intervals so that competitor copying of the most current development is avoided). The fact that you think a contract is involved shows how little you know about the project. I am strongly convinced that Ralf has stuck by this project all this time because he has the skill and grit to finish it, and it will be extremely valuable. They're in this for the long haul, not for a cash grab, which is why they have not ICO'd.

Look it's like every time I say something about this project you roaches come out of the woodwork and tell me I don't know enough about it.

So put up some info maybe? If it isn't one deflection it's another. Like one of them even shot back at me about calling them out on the 20% premine when they changed to the lisk codebase. They go and say "oh I can't believe you spinned that into a bad thing" when the reality is they probably don't even have access to the private key of that wallet. Then to top it off one nerd even posts a public link to the website like they werent IP baiting me. Like if there's no plan for it and they do have the key why aren't they using it to get more shift?

Really ryver is a Java infested crapground, the devs are transient at best, and they keep telling you people "yeah we're working real hard guize" all while never even giving back anything substantial like nobodys ever seen that trick before.

There's really not much to go on here, besides the smarter holders of shift dumping on the dumber holders of shift while they exit. That's pretty apparent just looking at bittrex.

Just because you don't think there isn't a work contract here doesn't mean there isn't one.

The open source hasn't had a meaningful change in months and the biggest thing that came out was someone updated the explorer page so it would have all the polo updates from lisk.

I don't think it's a cash grab in the sense of grabbing a pile of cash all at once, but I'll be damned if it isn't a cash grab in the sense of just being a medium income constant revenue generating stream being strung along and quiet enough that nobody ever realizes it.

[lmk99]

Look it's like every time I say something about this project you roaches come out of the woodwork and tell me I don't know enough about it.

So put up some info maybe? If it isn't one deflection it's another. Like one of them even shot back at me about calling them out on the 20% premine when they changed to the lisk codebase. They go and say "oh I can't believe you spinned that into a bad thing" when the reality is they probably don't even have access to the private key of that wallet. Then to top it off one nerd even posts a public link to the website like they werent IP baiting me. Like if there's no plan for it and they do have the key why aren't they using it to get more shift?

Really ryver is a Java infested crapground, the devs are transient at best, and they keep telling you people "yeah we're working real hard guize" all while never even giving back anything substantial like nobodys ever seen that trick before.

There's really not much to go on here, besides the smarter holders of shift dumping on the dumber holders of shift while they exit. That's pretty apparent just looking at bittrex.

Just because you don't think there isn't a work contract here doesn't mean there isn't one.

The open source hasn't had a meaningful change in months and the biggest thing that came out was someone updated the explorer page so it would have all the polo updates from lisk.

I don't think it's a cash grab in the sense of grabbing a pile of cash all at once, but I'll be damned if it isn't a cash grab in the sense of just being a medium income constant revenue generating stream being strung along and quiet enough that nobody ever realizes it.

For each bad actor explanation you've projected, there is a good explanation; sharing a good explanation because I know this team and have confidence in them makes me like a "roach coming out of the woodwork"? You're either a shill for a competitor project or have a major stick up your butt. E.g.:

Regarding the developer wallet: they haven't touched it because they have had admirable frugality and restraint at the stages of the product which were not ripe for marketing. Looting the developer wallet, even for good reasons, would probably cause panic or fear of dumping if this happened before the project was mature enough. Because it is now becoming mature enough to dip into the developer wallet without causing too much FUD, to spend for marketing and other good causes, they have been working on a marketing budget.

Regarding putting out info: the last November newsletter had a lot of positive news.

Regarding using Ryver: it's a matter of preference, not a reasonable indictment to make against them.

Regarding your claim that the devs are transient: Ralf has been with the project for a long time. Goldeneye is still on it as well. They also hired a new developer from Vimeo in recent months. (And the new dev Craig may have a work contract but there is no one for Ralf to have a contract from -- I still don't understand how this accusation makes sense.)

Regarding your claim about "the smarter holders of shift dumping on the dumber holders of shift while they exit," any dumper has missed a lot of gains by doing so given that Shift crossed ATH last month and reached a new ATH this month in an uptrend that grows progressively more robust up to the present, comparing across the 1-year, 3-month, 1-month, and 1-week charts. How can you even be attempting to FUD that?

Regarding the accusation that it's "just... a medium income constant revenue generating stream being strung along," if that was the case then why would they spend money hiring a new dev from Vimeo and developing Jenga and their own custom IPFS CMS and other innovations which were discussed in the last newsletter? (This point also speaks to the fact that innovative development is happening, and so regarding your penultimate criticism, the Github isn't kept updated with completely current developments such as this for the good reason of preventing competitor copying.) This is just ridiculous, it's like we're not even talking about the same project.

It's one thing to have your doubts. Fine. I believe we'll all see for ourselves quite soon. But you're straw-manning the project and passing misinformation off as fact. That is what I'm calling out as unfair.

[Bobobog]

Look it's like every time I say something about this project you roaches come out of the woodwork and tell me I don't know enough about it.

So put up some info maybe? If it isn't one deflection it's another. Like one of them even shot back at me about calling them out on the 20% premine when they changed to the lisk codebase. They go and say "oh I can't believe you spinned that into a bad thing" when the reality is they probably don't even have access to the private key of that wallet. Then to top it off one nerd even posts a public link to the website like they werent IP baiting me. Like if there's no plan for it and they do have the key why aren't they using it to get more shift?

Really ryver is a Java infested crapground, the devs are transient at best, and they keep telling you people "yeah we're working real hard guize" all while never even giving back anything substantial like nobodys ever seen that trick before.

There's really not much to go on here, besides the smarter holders of shift dumping on the dumber holders of shift while they exit. That's pretty apparent just looking at bittrex.

Just because you don't think there isn't a work contract here doesn't mean there isn't one.

The open source hasn't had a meaningful change in months and the biggest thing that came out was someone updated the explorer page so it would have all the polo updates from lisk.

I don't think it's a cash grab in the sense of grabbing a pile of cash all at once, but I'll be damned if it isn't a cash grab in the sense of just being a medium income constant revenue generating stream being strung along and quiet enough that nobody ever realizes it.

For each bad actor explanation you've projected, there is a good explanation; sharing a good explanation because I know this team and have confidence in them makes me like a "roach coming out of the woodwork"? You're either a shill for a competitor project or have a major stick up your butt. E.g.:

Regarding the developer wallet: they haven't touched it because they have had admirable frugality and restraint at the stages of the product which were not ripe for marketing. Looting the developer wallet, even for good reasons, would probably cause panic or fear of dumping if this happened before the project was mature enough. Because it is now becoming mature enough to dip into the developer wallet without causing too much FUD, to spend for marketing and other good causes, they have been working on a marketing budget.

Regarding putting out info: the last November newsletter had a lot of positive news.

Regarding using Ryver: it's a matter of preference, not a reasonable indictment to make against them.

Regarding your claim that the devs are transient: Ralf has been with the project for a long time. Goldeneye is still on it as well. They also hired a new developer from Vimeo in recent months. (And the new dev Craig may have a work contract but there is no one for Ralf to have a contract from -- I still don't understand how this accusation makes sense.)

Regarding your claim about "the smarter holders of shift dumping on the dumber holders of shift while they exit," any dumper has missed a lot of gains by doing so given that Shift crossed ATH last month and reached a new ATH this month in an uptrend that grows progressively more robust up to the present, comparing across the 1-year, 3-month, 1-month, and 1-week charts. How can you even be attempting to FUD that?

Regarding the accusation that it's "just... a medium income constant revenue generating stream being strung along," if that was the case then why would they spend money hiring a new dev from Vimeo and developing Jenga and their own custom IPFS CMS and other innovations which were discussed in the last newsletter? (This point also speaks to the fact that innovative development is happening, and so regarding your penultimate criticism, the Github isn't kept updated with completely current developments such as this for the good reason of preventing competitor copying.) This is just ridiculous, it's like we're not even talking about the same project.

It's one thing to have your doubts. Fine. I believe we'll all see for ourselves quite soon. But you're straw-manning the project and passing misinformation off as fact. That is what I'm calling out as unfair.

Well said man. thank you.

[PrinceOfPersia711]

subscrotum is a scam. Shift and Maidsafe are the only two legit decentralized web projects. both fantastic. Maid much more ambitious, Shift further along

Substratum is going to dominate just watch

[F2b]

subscrotum is a scam. Shift and Maidsafe are the only two legit decentralized web projects. both fantastic. Maid much more ambitious, Shift further along

Substratum is going to dominate just watch

Why?

[Crypto_lion]

Is substratum good to get in now still at this level? Can we expect multiple growths after this or is it better to pick out some. Ico coin ? I wanna get into web sector in crypto

[anks]

Can you tell me where to find information on shifts leadership and team? This is important and they seem like they’re in the shadows.  Kinda shifty.

take a look at the website www.shiftnrg.org

[BuffetOfCrypto]

According to this Forbes article They think that SHIFT is the coin to look out for this year they did Not mention substratum or ans project trying to do the same! Shift is far ahead

https://www.forbes.com/sites/julesschroeder/2018/01/09/millennials-heres-how-cryptocurrency-could-transform-your-future/#7214f9cb9b35

[lucky_girl]

This is impossible to compare. SHIFT has already product, Substratum has only marketing. SHIFT will go to the moon in next months. Look it's marketcap, SHIFT is hidden gem!

[jerry0]

Is it true substratum, the team abandoned the project already?

[F2b]

Is it true substratum, the team abandoned the project already?

Where did you read this??
I think you're completely wrong (I hope...): just see their Youtube channel, they are still very active.
Also, we had some early beta version recently.
I'm not a big fan of the way they work and the way they do marketing, but honestly I think they are legit (again, I hope).