SHIFT vs Substratum - battle to decentralize the web

[CryptoPro3]

What is everyone's thoughts on SHIFT vs Substratum in terms of decentralized web and hosting?

SHIFT:
https://www.shiftnrg.org/

Substratum:
https://substratum.net/technology/

I know SHIFT has been in the game for a few years, kinda flying under the radar while they work hard on development, but I recently came across the substratum ICO and it looks like they are trying to accomplish the same thing as SHIFT. However, it doesnt look like Substratum offers anything that SHIFT is already not doing...

I believe Substratum is an eth based token, and SHIFT is it's own blockchain, that originated as a fork from Lisk (LSK) code.

My vote goes to SHIFT, a project that has been around long before all this ICO hype - they are soon redesigning their website/whitelist and deploying a new marketing campaign. Plus they have a small marketcap and a lot of room to grow, with only 11 million tokens.

What are your thoughts?

[CryptoPro3]

Shift is the coin I most often see in this forum when people ask potential next 100x.

I am very excited for Shift's first app - Phantom web hosting - to go live soon!

[neowne]

What is everyone's thoughts on SHIFT vs Substratum in terms of decentralized web and hosting?

SHIFT:
https://www.shiftnrg.org/

Substratum:
https://substratum.net/technology/

I know SHIFT has been in the game for a few years, kinda flying under the radar while they work hard on development, but I recently came across the substratum ICO and it looks like they are trying to accomplish the same thing as SHIFT. However, it doesnt look like Substratum offers anything that SHIFT is already not doing...

I believe Substratum is an eth based token, and SHIFT is it's own blockchain, that originated as a fork from Lisk (LSK) code.

My vote goes to SHIFT, a project that has been around long before all this ICO hype - they are soon redesigning their website/whitelist and deploying a new marketing campaign. Plus they have a small marketcap and a lot of room to grow, with only 11 million tokens.

What are your thoughts?

well why does substrtum uses the oictures from shift on the whitepaper?

[CryptoPro3]

Also, the substratom logo icon looks awfully similar to SHIFT's old logo... almost identical.

[anks]

Shift is nearly ready and thats good
i also heard about maidsafe but i will stick to the ipfs thing.

[Bowtiesarecool]

Shift takes my vote too. Longer development, product ready to go

[tech72]

I almost bought SHIFT till I read this is it true? https://i.gyazo.com/ba085417428fe786abd68ea5a5893578.png

Please tell me something. So that i'll more confident to buy SHIFT.

[anks]

I almost bought SHIFT till I read this is it true? https://i.gyazo.com/ba085417428fe786abd68ea5a5893578.png

Please tell me something. So that i'll more confident to buy SHIFT.

The subdomain thing isnt true
http://alwaysonline.io/#intro

this site is hosted on phantom.
much talk nothing behind it. yes the idea of ipfs doesnt come from shift itself
but that doesnt mean that they didnt put any work to program it in combination with a dApp
and a blockchain. he throws in his comment a programming language, a databank system and a microsoft app while he is comparing with shifts programming languages only. his comparisations are out of relatives and they didnt even bring anything to the table yet.

[Bobobog]

I almost bought SHIFT till I read this is it true? https://i.gyazo.com/ba085417428fe786abd68ea5a5893578.png

Please tell me something. So that i'll more confident to buy SHIFT.

The subdomain thing isnt true
http://alwaysonline.io/#intro

this site is hosted on phantom.
much talk nothing behind it. yes the idea of ipfs doesnt come from shift itself
but that doesnt mean that they didnt put any work to program it in combination with a dApp
and a blockchain. he throws in his comment a programming language, a databank system and a microsoft app while he is comparing with shifts programming languages only. his comparisations are out of relatives and they didnt even bring anything to the table yet.

Still up?

[puremage111]

Not sure about Substratum but i saw it on reddit as it was accused scam?

[Bobobog]

Not sure about Substratum but i saw it on reddit as it was accused scam?

I'll look at substratum but shift is better and has a working product.

[mithrim]

I'm a bit irritated. The SHIFT website says "Q3 - new roadmap" and the now visible roadmap only shows vague steps until Q3. Q3 is now nearly over yet no update. In my unterstanding, a rough roadmap shoul exist in the first place, so why isn't it updated maybe every 6 months or so? That's really bad communication.

Substratum has a slack group and youtube channel btw:
- Slack: https://substratumcoin.slack.com/
- Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxUJoTH0XLERKl55zGnFI6g

[Bobobog]

I'm a bit irritated. The SHIFT website says "Q3 - new roadmap" and the now visible roadmap only shows vague steps until Q3. Q3 is now nearly over yet no update. In my unterstanding, a rough roadmap shoul exist in the first place, so why isn't it updated maybe every 6 months or so? That's really bad communication.

Substratum has a slack group and youtube channel btw:
- Slack: https://substratumcoin.slack.com/
- Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxUJoTH0XLERKl55zGnFI6g

Shift is rising right now.

[PPleaseman]

Hi. Shift has been around longer and they will release their phantom testnet soon, so they say. I never looked into substratum but shift delibered so far. Also i like DPOS

Cheers

[Buyingallcoinsz]

SHIFT will definately win. It has the best infrastructure. Shift is the new web. Decentralized and versatile.
Combining a blazing fast, dApp-ready, delegated Proof of Stake blockchain with the interplanetary file system - for a decentralized, resilient and highly extensible web 3.0 platform. Building the new world wide web. Just better. From ICANN to hosting providers, from advertisers to social media, the Internet is getting privatized and centralized more and more. On the new web there is no censorship or discrimination due to its decentralized nature.

[Bobobog]

SHIFT will definately win. It has the best infrastructure. Shift is the new web. Decentralized and versatile.
Combining a blazing fast, dApp-ready, delegated Proof of Stake blockchain with the interplanetary file system - for a decentralized, resilient and highly extensible web 3.0 platform. Building the new world wide web. Just better. From ICANN to hosting providers, from advertisers to social media, the Internet is getting privatized and centralized more and more. On the new web there is no censorship or discrimination due to its decentralized nature.

[fromholland]

Not sure about Substratum but i saw it on reddit as it was accused scam?

Substratum is definately not a scam. They have a great team, great roadmap, they keep to their roadmap and are delivering!
Already 3x since few weeks ago!

[artmen007]

I not long ago watched over the SUBSTRATUM, but in terms of price, even now he is very confident, even against BITCOIN.
And the shift have been watching for over a year. I know that this project is long. Connect with high hopes. Like the team. Technology. I think this coin will make a break in 2018 and will cost more than $ 10

[Bobobog]

I not long ago watched over the SUBSTRATUM, but in terms of price, even now he is very confident, even against BITCOIN.
And the shift have been watching for over a year. I know that this project is long. Connect with high hopes. Like the team. Technology. I think this coin will make a break in 2018 and will cost more than $ 10

Yes. Definitely SHIFT will win.

[Sikka157]

Shift already has a dApp ‘Phantom’ and their newer website will run on it. But Substratum seems to be rallying high these days due to their marketing only. As an investor, I think Shift has a lot of room to grow now when their new website is launched and they start marketing.

[Bobobog]

Shift already has a dApp ‘Phantom’ and their newer website will run on it. But Substratum seems to be rallying high these days due to their marketing only. As an investor, I think Shift has a lot of room to grow now when their new website is launched and they start marketing.

You can read more about SHIFT: https://www.shiftnrg.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Shift%20Upbit%20-%20English%20text.pdf

[Oakey22]

SHIFT is going to be the winner here, they already have an implementation of phantom which has been on testnet for a while. It used IPFS to share content and is a great idea which i think will make waves for the future.

[RippleSider]

I don't like the winning thing. Not always there are only two competitors and one will win and one will fail. While Shift has found a solution around the IPFS drawbacks with JENGA, maybe substratum has another solution. please don't forget how many oldstyle webhosters in every country are around. There should be a HUGE market and potential for two and more decentralized web solutions.

im hold SHIFT but don't know  enough about SUB to decide if it is better or worse or whatever.

[Bobobog]

I don't like the winning thing. Not always there are only two competitors and one will win and one will fail. While Shift has found a solution around the IPFS drawbacks with JENGA, maybe substratum has another solution. please don't forget how many oldstyle webhosters in every country are around. There should be a HUGE market and potential for two and more decentralized web solutions.

im hold SHIFT but don't know  enough about SUB to decide if it is better or worse or whatever.

You can buy them. Subs and SHIFT.

[toto31]

Definitely SHIFT!
It has a working product https://gateway.shiftnrg.org/ipfs/QmRm6bzVH7bebHCgjFu18cMNKsPMYyDcVR3u8Pp2RzgpMC/
The time Substratum has something to show, Shift will have thousands of websites already hosted.

[Bobobog]

Definitely SHIFT!
It has a working product https://gateway.shiftnrg.org/ipfs/QmRm6bzVH7bebHCgjFu18cMNKsPMYyDcVR3u8Pp2RzgpMC/
The time Substratum has something to show, Shift will have thousands of websites already hosted.

SHIFT broke its new all time high a few days ago. I guess big pump is coming.

[DarkElm0]

My money is on Shift - would I invest in Sub sure BUT anytime you ask a question they beat around the bush...It seems all show no go to me at this point.  Why would you host a public Alpha testing then not allow the participants to talk about it then tell everyone it went well? 
That's like big pharma saying weed is bad, use these meds instead that cause temporary to Parkinson disease to cure your depression...trust us.
I think the price is being manipulated hard on Sub at the moment by some big whales from the ICO start and it will pump higher soon and they will dump on everyone.

I asked Sub how they plan to use current browser technology to convert traffic to IPFS protocol and they say "it just will."... ok..... sketchy.

I hope they do get a working platform as there is room for both but at the moment I go with old faithful.

I work IT and deal with programmers everyday....They barely update any of our team and aren't the greatest at communicating but damn can they publish some results when it comes down to it.  That's just their personalities....Shift is a group of PROGRAMMERS who don't have MARKETING yet and are about to start.  It's going to be fantastic.

Just compare the market cap of Augur to Shift with same coin supply...
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/augur/


Also SUB is talking about burning tokens to increase price....What tokens?  The circulating tokens?  That's not how this works..
They don't make sense a lot of the time and just fishy to me and I don't feel like throwing 20-30 grand on an IF.

I think Shift is going to BOOM and it will be awesome.

I like a few things the SUB gui has but it's just all a theory at the moment and nothing to back it...

Also Shift is javascript...so dApp devs don't have to learn a new language which is HUGE. That opens the room to such a large community of devs.

In the end there is room for both...so much money in this game and we have barely penetrated the real world.
I hope BOTH succeed but I only bet on sure things after a lot of questions and research.

So for now my money is on Shift...Damn I wrote too much...

[bouldou]

I've put lots of money on SHIFT too, I'm a strong believer in this coin when they will start to use they Phantom servers, price will moon !

[DarkElm0]

https://www.shiftnrg.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Shift%20Upbit%20-%20English%20text.pdf

https://twitter.com/shiftnrg?lang=en

 

[JW9494]

Substratum..
It's on all the major Chinese exchanges. I
And I've been on KuCoin for a few months.. Substratum
Has been kicking ass.

[Choosewise]

Shift already has some development towards it, not just the idea itself.

[d0r10n]

A family member put me onto Substratum, it looked good but didn't know about Shift, think I'll choose Shift over Sub now.

[tripkebab]

My vote is Shift.

Shift has a working product now. With a little marketing all it takes is one well known website to host themselves on Phantom and Shift will be viral before Sub is even out of the Petri dish.

[fromholland]

Shift already has some development towards it, not just the idea itself.

And SUB hasn't?
They've been beta-testing this week and results are very positive ;-)

[Tomak]

My vote is Shift.

Shift has a working product now. With a little marketing all it takes is one well known website to host themselves on Phantom and Shift will be viral before Sub is even out of the Petri dish.

Ok but when? Give me the date because i dont want to miss this train and i dont have the money now to bet on both. I am all in SUB for now, i dont know, i think is my instynkt....Market cap of SUB is already 4 times higher and community is more active.

And also why one has to be a winner and other looser i dont get it also. I think both of them will be winners. Just look at the crypto space.

Shift community is dead, wake me up when it hits 100k market cap then maybe i will be interested in investing.

Personally i dont like to invest in early stages and waiting with hope for incoming pump, i just dont have money and time for this. I like projects with some momentum already and active cummunities.

[Bobobog]

My vote is Shift.

Shift has a working product now. With a little marketing all it takes is one well known website to host themselves on Phantom and Shift will be viral before Sub is even out of the Petri dish.

Ok but when? Give me the date because i dont want to miss this train and i dont have the money now to bet on both. I am all in SUB for now, i dont know, i think is my instynkt....Market cap of SUB is already 4 times higher and community is more active.

And also why one has to be a winner and other looser i dont get it also. I think both of them will be winners. Just look at the crypto space.

Shift community is dead, wake me up when it hits 100k market cap then maybe i will be interested in investing.

Personally i dont like to invest in early stages and waiting with hope for incoming pump, i just dont have money and time for this. I like projects with some momentum already and active cummunities.

Shift community is active on Ryver or Telegram. They don't use Slack.

[lmk99]

Shift just published the November newsletter! This was their announcement in Ryver, details are very bullish:

Hi all, the November Newsletter is published! Please join the discussion on Reddit and please remember to subscribe to r/ShiftNrg for future Shift updates! Subscribing on Reddit is a simple action you can take to help grow our community and awareness of Shift through the end of this year and beyond! https://www.reddit.com/r/ShiftNrg/comments/7gp7lu/november_newsletter_discuss_here/?ref=share&ref_source=link

[johnywalkerrr]

Internet is decentralized itself. There are no need in such projects at all

[RippleSider]

Internet is decentralized itself. There are no need in such projects at all

you are a funny guy.

[d0r10n]

Internet is decentralized itself. There are no need in such projects at all

you are a funny guy.

Actually depends on how you look at it, if you look at it as a network, it is decentralized in that it's a bunch of connected network nodes, and IP packets on the network layer generally have multiple routes end to end, and if one of the nodes in Path A goes down, the packet should be able to be routed through another path.

But in crypto when we talk about decentralized we mean more in the service mindset, so if Website A (owned by a single entity, and hosted on a single virtual/physical server) goes down for whatever reason then that service is no longer available.

[22justin]

subscrotum is a scam. Shift and Maidsafe are the only two legit decentralized web projects. both fantastic. Maid much more ambitious, Shift further along

[Gooose2045]

Can you tell me where to find information on shifts leadership and team? This is important and they seem like they’re in the shadows.  Kinda shifty.

[battle.net]

Can you tell me where to find information on shifts leadership and team? This is important and they seem like they’re in the shadows.  Kinda shifty.

I heard they don't like to do that so that nobody can know all the other crypto currency projects they are working on, like a coin mill.

The last one that went public with his information, Jan, did exactly this and the price tanked.

[TheHas]

Can you tell me where to find information on shifts leadership and team? This is important and they seem like they’re in the shadows.  Kinda shifty.

I heard they don't like to do that so that nobody can know all the other crypto currency projects they are working on, like a coin mill.

The last one that went public with his information, Jan, did exactly this and the price tanked.

I think having some knowledge of who the team is can be pretty important - might be one of the reasons that substratum is doing well since you know who is on the team, they do interviews and are generally trying to be seen.

I remember seeing a poll recently on this forum about what people consider when investing in an ico, and over half selected 'strength of team' as the main thing in choosing where to invest.

Might not work for all coins, particularly ones focused on privacy, but it can still put people in the community off from investing.

[lmk99]

Can you tell me where to find information on shifts leadership and team? This is important and they seem like they’re in the shadows.  Kinda shifty.

I heard they don't like to do that so that nobody can know all the other crypto currency projects they are working on, like a coin mill.

The last one that went public with his information, Jan, did exactly this and the price tanked.

That seems quite unfair. The lead dev of Shift, Ralf, is not working on anything else as far as I know, although they collaborate with Lisk sometimes since Shift is a Lisk fork. Jan has never been part of the Shift team since he left to create his own fork clones that he ICO'd and my understanding is that the Shift team strongly disapproved of this behavior. As far as a desire for privacy is concerned, I respect that; and while I do understand their privacy may deter investment before there's proven development progress in the form of a working prototype, I believe that when the team's progress is proven with the public launch of the Phantom dApp prototype on the testnet before the end of this month, their privacy will not matter anymore: ultimately what matters is delivering on the project with something valuable.

[battle.net]

Can you tell me where to find information on shifts leadership and team? This is important and they seem like they’re in the shadows.  Kinda shifty.

I heard they don't like to do that so that nobody can know all the other crypto currency projects they are working on, like a coin mill.

The last one that went public with his information, Jan, did exactly this and the price tanked.

That seems quite unfair. The lead dev of Shift, Ralf, is not working on anything else as far as I know, although they collaborate with Lisk sometimes since Shift is a Lisk fork. Jan has never been part of the Shift team since he left to create his own fork clones that he ICO'd and my understanding is that the Shift team strongly disapproved of this behavior. As far as a desire for privacy is concerned, I respect that; and while I do understand their privacy may deter investment before there's proven development progress in the form of a working prototype, I believe that when the team's progress is proven with the public launch of the Phantom dApp prototype on the testnet before the end of this month, their privacy will not matter anymore: ultimately what matters is delivering on the project with something valuable.

Unfair? Please. It's just speculation that he isn't working on anything else. Has anyone thought to ask him when his work contract runs out? Usually they buy these people on a yearly basis to run and operate these coin mills along with the NDA and everything.

Privacy is fine but evasiveness isn't. Why is shift the only crypto hiding behind a glass wall like ryver? Ever notice you don't see these people literally anywhere else?

The dodginess is pretty unparalleled. My money is on the hedge that these people haven't done a damn thing besides string an update or two into GitHub for months and they're just riding out their contract.

Soon as 2018 hits they're gonna drop this like a rock and ICO the whole thing. The real development probably left pre-Jan anyways.

That or the whole things fabricated to make it look like substratum has some competition.

[foggywhite007]

How can you compare SHIFT. SHIFT great project which deserves to be in the top 100. Soon will be a basic start and I'm sure the price will fly up. Really like the team it is the exact same as LISK adds that faith in the project. I'm in coins shift and I am sure in 2018 will be strong growth

[lmk99]

Unfair? Please. It's just speculation that he isn't working on anything else. Has anyone thought to ask him when his work contract runs out? Usually they buy these people on a yearly basis to run and operate these coin mills along with the NDA and everything.

Privacy is fine but evasiveness isn't. Why is shift the only crypto hiding behind a glass wall like ryver? Ever notice you don't see these people literally anywhere else?

The dodginess is pretty unparalleled. My money is on the hedge that these people haven't done a damn thing besides string an update or two into GitHub for months and they're just riding out their contract.

Soon as 2018 hits they're gonna drop this like a rock and ICO the whole thing. The real development probably left pre-Jan anyways.

That or the whole things fabricated to make it look like substratum has some competition.

It's easy to join the Ryver, there's no wall against going in and asking the team questions including Ralf himself. I don't understand what you mean by a contract running out. There's no CEO or company to have a contract with, it's an open source community project (they push from the private repo to Github at infrequent intervals so that competitor copying of the most current development is avoided). The fact that you think a contract is involved shows how little you know about the project. I am strongly convinced that Ralf has stuck by this project all this time because he has the skill and grit to finish it, and it will be extremely valuable. They're in this for the long haul, not for a cash grab, which is why they have not ICO'd.

[fromholland]

subscrotum is a scam. Shift and Maidsafe are the only two legit decentralized web projects. both fantastic. Maid much more ambitious, Shift further along

Which facts do you base this statement on?

[battle.net]

Unfair? Please. It's just speculation that he isn't working on anything else. Has anyone thought to ask him when his work contract runs out? Usually they buy these people on a yearly basis to run and operate these coin mills along with the NDA and everything.

Privacy is fine but evasiveness isn't. Why is shift the only crypto hiding behind a glass wall like ryver? Ever notice you don't see these people literally anywhere else?

The dodginess is pretty unparalleled. My money is on the hedge that these people haven't done a damn thing besides string an update or two into GitHub for months and they're just riding out their contract.

Soon as 2018 hits they're gonna drop this like a rock and ICO the whole thing. The real development probably left pre-Jan anyways.

That or the whole things fabricated to make it look like substratum has some competition.

It's easy to join the Ryver, there's no wall against going in and asking the team questions including Ralf himself. I don't understand what you mean by a contract running out. There's no CEO or company to have a contract with, it's an open source community project (they push from the private repo to Github at infrequent intervals so that competitor copying of the most current development is avoided). The fact that you think a contract is involved shows how little you know about the project. I am strongly convinced that Ralf has stuck by this project all this time because he has the skill and grit to finish it, and it will be extremely valuable. They're in this for the long haul, not for a cash grab, which is why they have not ICO'd.

Look it's like every time I say something about this project you roaches come out of the woodwork and tell me I don't know enough about it.

So put up some info maybe? If it isn't one deflection it's another. Like one of them even shot back at me about calling them out on the 20% premine when they changed to the lisk codebase. They go and say "oh I can't believe you spinned that into a bad thing" when the reality is they probably don't even have access to the private key of that wallet. Then to top it off one nerd even posts a public link to the website like they werent IP baiting me. Like if there's no plan for it and they do have the key why aren't they using it to get more shift?

Really ryver is a Java infested crapground, the devs are transient at best, and they keep telling you people "yeah we're working real hard guize" all while never even giving back anything substantial like nobodys ever seen that trick before.

There's really not much to go on here, besides the smarter holders of shift dumping on the dumber holders of shift while they exit. That's pretty apparent just looking at bittrex.

Just because you don't think there isn't a work contract here doesn't mean there isn't one.

The open source hasn't had a meaningful change in months and the biggest thing that came out was someone updated the explorer page so it would have all the polo updates from lisk.

I don't think it's a cash grab in the sense of grabbing a pile of cash all at once, but I'll be damned if it isn't a cash grab in the sense of just being a medium income constant revenue generating stream being strung along and quiet enough that nobody ever realizes it.

[lmk99]

Look it's like every time I say something about this project you roaches come out of the woodwork and tell me I don't know enough about it.

So put up some info maybe? If it isn't one deflection it's another. Like one of them even shot back at me about calling them out on the 20% premine when they changed to the lisk codebase. They go and say "oh I can't believe you spinned that into a bad thing" when the reality is they probably don't even have access to the private key of that wallet. Then to top it off one nerd even posts a public link to the website like they werent IP baiting me. Like if there's no plan for it and they do have the key why aren't they using it to get more shift?

Really ryver is a Java infested crapground, the devs are transient at best, and they keep telling you people "yeah we're working real hard guize" all while never even giving back anything substantial like nobodys ever seen that trick before.

There's really not much to go on here, besides the smarter holders of shift dumping on the dumber holders of shift while they exit. That's pretty apparent just looking at bittrex.

Just because you don't think there isn't a work contract here doesn't mean there isn't one.

The open source hasn't had a meaningful change in months and the biggest thing that came out was someone updated the explorer page so it would have all the polo updates from lisk.

I don't think it's a cash grab in the sense of grabbing a pile of cash all at once, but I'll be damned if it isn't a cash grab in the sense of just being a medium income constant revenue generating stream being strung along and quiet enough that nobody ever realizes it.

For each bad actor explanation you've projected, there is a good explanation; sharing a good explanation because I know this team and have confidence in them makes me like a "roach coming out of the woodwork"? You're either a shill for a competitor project or have a major stick up your butt. E.g.:

Regarding the developer wallet: they haven't touched it because they have had admirable frugality and restraint at the stages of the product which were not ripe for marketing. Looting the developer wallet, even for good reasons, would probably cause panic or fear of dumping if this happened before the project was mature enough. Because it is now becoming mature enough to dip into the developer wallet without causing too much FUD, to spend for marketing and other good causes, they have been working on a marketing budget.

Regarding putting out info: the last November newsletter had a lot of positive news.

Regarding using Ryver: it's a matter of preference, not a reasonable indictment to make against them.

Regarding your claim that the devs are transient: Ralf has been with the project for a long time. Goldeneye is still on it as well. They also hired a new developer from Vimeo in recent months. (And the new dev Craig may have a work contract but there is no one for Ralf to have a contract from -- I still don't understand how this accusation makes sense.)

Regarding your claim about "the smarter holders of shift dumping on the dumber holders of shift while they exit," any dumper has missed a lot of gains by doing so given that Shift crossed ATH last month and reached a new ATH this month in an uptrend that grows progressively more robust up to the present, comparing across the 1-year, 3-month, 1-month, and 1-week charts. How can you even be attempting to FUD that?

Regarding the accusation that it's "just... a medium income constant revenue generating stream being strung along," if that was the case then why would they spend money hiring a new dev from Vimeo and developing Jenga and their own custom IPFS CMS and other innovations which were discussed in the last newsletter? (This point also speaks to the fact that innovative development is happening, and so regarding your penultimate criticism, the Github isn't kept updated with completely current developments such as this for the good reason of preventing competitor copying.) This is just ridiculous, it's like we're not even talking about the same project.

It's one thing to have your doubts. Fine. I believe we'll all see for ourselves quite soon. But you're straw-manning the project and passing misinformation off as fact. That is what I'm calling out as unfair.

[Bobobog]

Look it's like every time I say something about this project you roaches come out of the woodwork and tell me I don't know enough about it.

So put up some info maybe? If it isn't one deflection it's another. Like one of them even shot back at me about calling them out on the 20% premine when they changed to the lisk codebase. They go and say "oh I can't believe you spinned that into a bad thing" when the reality is they probably don't even have access to the private key of that wallet. Then to top it off one nerd even posts a public link to the website like they werent IP baiting me. Like if there's no plan for it and they do have the key why aren't they using it to get more shift?

Really ryver is a Java infested crapground, the devs are transient at best, and they keep telling you people "yeah we're working real hard guize" all while never even giving back anything substantial like nobodys ever seen that trick before.

There's really not much to go on here, besides the smarter holders of shift dumping on the dumber holders of shift while they exit. That's pretty apparent just looking at bittrex.

Just because you don't think there isn't a work contract here doesn't mean there isn't one.

The open source hasn't had a meaningful change in months and the biggest thing that came out was someone updated the explorer page so it would have all the polo updates from lisk.

I don't think it's a cash grab in the sense of grabbing a pile of cash all at once, but I'll be damned if it isn't a cash grab in the sense of just being a medium income constant revenue generating stream being strung along and quiet enough that nobody ever realizes it.

For each bad actor explanation you've projected, there is a good explanation; sharing a good explanation because I know this team and have confidence in them makes me like a "roach coming out of the woodwork"? You're either a shill for a competitor project or have a major stick up your butt. E.g.:

Regarding the developer wallet: they haven't touched it because they have had admirable frugality and restraint at the stages of the product which were not ripe for marketing. Looting the developer wallet, even for good reasons, would probably cause panic or fear of dumping if this happened before the project was mature enough. Because it is now becoming mature enough to dip into the developer wallet without causing too much FUD, to spend for marketing and other good causes, they have been working on a marketing budget.

Regarding putting out info: the last November newsletter had a lot of positive news.

Regarding using Ryver: it's a matter of preference, not a reasonable indictment to make against them.

Regarding your claim that the devs are transient: Ralf has been with the project for a long time. Goldeneye is still on it as well. They also hired a new developer from Vimeo in recent months. (And the new dev Craig may have a work contract but there is no one for Ralf to have a contract from -- I still don't understand how this accusation makes sense.)

Regarding your claim about "the smarter holders of shift dumping on the dumber holders of shift while they exit," any dumper has missed a lot of gains by doing so given that Shift crossed ATH last month and reached a new ATH this month in an uptrend that grows progressively more robust up to the present, comparing across the 1-year, 3-month, 1-month, and 1-week charts. How can you even be attempting to FUD that?

Regarding the accusation that it's "just... a medium income constant revenue generating stream being strung along," if that was the case then why would they spend money hiring a new dev from Vimeo and developing Jenga and their own custom IPFS CMS and other innovations which were discussed in the last newsletter? (This point also speaks to the fact that innovative development is happening, and so regarding your penultimate criticism, the Github isn't kept updated with completely current developments such as this for the good reason of preventing competitor copying.) This is just ridiculous, it's like we're not even talking about the same project.

It's one thing to have your doubts. Fine. I believe we'll all see for ourselves quite soon. But you're straw-manning the project and passing misinformation off as fact. That is what I'm calling out as unfair.

Well said man. thank you.

[PrinceOfPersia711]

subscrotum is a scam. Shift and Maidsafe are the only two legit decentralized web projects. both fantastic. Maid much more ambitious, Shift further along

Substratum is going to dominate just watch

[F2b]

subscrotum is a scam. Shift and Maidsafe are the only two legit decentralized web projects. both fantastic. Maid much more ambitious, Shift further along

Substratum is going to dominate just watch

Why?

[Crypto_lion]

Is substratum good to get in now still at this level? Can we expect multiple growths after this or is it better to pick out some. Ico coin ? I wanna get into web sector in crypto

[anks]

Can you tell me where to find information on shifts leadership and team? This is important and they seem like they’re in the shadows.  Kinda shifty.

take a look at the website www.shiftnrg.org

[BuffetOfCrypto]

According to this Forbes article They think that SHIFT is the coin to look out for this year they did Not mention substratum or ans project trying to do the same! Shift is far ahead

https://www.forbes.com/sites/julesschroeder/2018/01/09/millennials-heres-how-cryptocurrency-could-transform-your-future/#7214f9cb9b35

[lucky_girl]

This is impossible to compare. SHIFT has already product, Substratum has only marketing. SHIFT will go to the moon in next months. Look it's marketcap, SHIFT is hidden gem!

[jerry0]

Is it true substratum, the team abandoned the project already?

[F2b]

Is it true substratum, the team abandoned the project already?

Where did you read this??
I think you're completely wrong (I hope...): just see their Youtube channel, they are still very active.
Also, we had some early beta version recently.
I'm not a big fan of the way they work and the way they do marketing, but honestly I think they are legit (again, I hope).